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[Shpeshal Nick]

Which is just (hopefully) long tailed backwards compatibility, which you are going to get with the next PlayStation as well.

The GameBoy Advance and PS3 played titles from across three gens. So far there is nothing that new about what Xbox is doing, it's just more convenient. This isn't a criticism, it's a fact.

The difference being that (again, if we take Microsoft at their word) they're going to attempt BC in perpetuity.

Only launch PS3s had BC (with only US ones having proper hardware based BC). What Microsoft is attempting is technically unique in the console space. Not in the process of backwards compatibility itself, but in the idea that they'd like it to exist in perpetuity.

 

[RichiRamjag]

The difference being that (again, if we take Microsoft at their word) they're going to attempt BC in perpetuity.

Only launch PS3s had BC (with only US ones having proper hardware based BC). What Microsoft is attempting is technically unique in the console space. Not in the process of backwards compatibility itself, but in the idea that they'd like it to exist in perpetuity.

Unless they switch to another architecture at some point, there's no reason to assume this won't be done with the next Sony product tbh. Hell, even Nintendo.

 

[Matt]

The difference being that (again, if we take Microsoft at their word) they're going to attempt BC in perpetuity.

Only launch PS3s had BC (with only US ones having proper hardware based BC). What Microsoft is attempting is technically unique in the console space. Not in the process of backwards compatibility itself, but in the idea that they'd like it to exist in perpetuity.

This is just a silly semantic debate at this point. I stand by the idea that backward compatibility does not make a system "generationless." I also think it's a good idea to see if there is a follow up to the Scorpio before we start rewarding MS for their future work, especially because PlayStation (and probably Nintendo) will theoretically be doing the same.

 

[Jon Carter]

i'll take a $100k bet on that.
how certain are you with your claim?

xbox one will be above 25m at the end of this year. so just 25m more xbox one s, xbox scorpio and xbox scorpio s in the next 5 to 7 years


so i really don't know what should be in any way funny about that. i find your comment rather funny. and still i don't laught about it, because i'm well-educated

Yikes. Hopefully nobody takes you up on that bet. That's a lot of money to bet on an outcome that really isn't guaranteed.

 

[onQ123]

onQ said that a developer might want to use the extra tech in the Pro to make their game shine, and therefore might not want to produce an XBO version. My point was that if you have to make a base PS4 game, there isn't really a tech reason you can't also make a similar XBO version.

No I didn't

I was talking about the PS4 as a whole but PS4 Pro adds on top of that,


Say that the devs already had a vision of what they wanted their game to be & they knew they had to focus on one platform to make this game because they wanted to use volume rendering , ray-tracing or whatever & it would be pushing the PS4 to the point where the game is 720P on base PS4 & 1080P on PS4 Pro.

 

[Matt]

No I didn't

I was talking about the PS4 as a whole but PS4 Pro adds on top of that,


Say that the devs already had a vision of what they wanted their game to be & they knew they had to focus on one platform to make this game because they wanted to use volume rendering , ray-tracing or whatever & it would be pushing the PS4 to the point where the game is 720P on base PS4 & 1080P on PS4 Pro.

For the vast majority of games and developers, that trade wouldn't be worth it. Certainly not for anything from a large publisher. So MS really never needed to worry about a serious lack of third party support.

 

[PlayerOne]

Unless they switch to another architecture at some point, there's no reason to assume this won't be done with the next Sony product tbh. Hell, even Nintendo.

BC is called PSNow and remasters.

Do people actuslly think Sony spent 300 million on Gaikai over nothing?

Or that publishers don't want to earn extra coins through remasters??

 

[EGOMON]

People need to understand that the PS4 pro is just a PS4. Nothing more, nothing less. The Scorpio is not XBO. It's a new gen for Microsoft and they will ditch the XBO once the Scorpio drops. It's Microsoft we are talking about here. People who are stating or believing otherwise don't seem to understand what they have been doing all the years they have been in the console business

This^
I am still amazed at how many people believing MS "No one left behind" pr they will support the XBO for one year at best then drop it. The only reason they are saying this is to not upset their fan base but once Scorpio in the market they will force you to upgrade with their sweet pr talk and software releases strategy

 

[Nightengale]

BC is called PSNow and remasters.

Do people actuslly think Sony spent 300 million on Gaikai over nothing?

Or that publishers don't want to earn extra coins through remasters??

Do people actually think Sony won't be looking at what competitors are doing with their BC-initiatives and analysing broader market reception of said feature sets with competitor products, soon in Scorpio and rumoured Switch-GC support?

Even with backward compatability, remasters will continue to exist. Even with Gaikai, Sony has done things like PS2BC when it could had instead been part of Gaikai.

Not saying PS5 will definitely be BC, but the existence of Gaikai/Remasters are not as strong as an indicator as one might think. If anything, Scorpio/Switch will be bigger factors in whether or not Sony will look into BC for its future products.

Business dimensions can change in a short time when there are external elements to consider. Nintendo and Sony's leap into the mobile market wasn't some master plan concocted 5 years ago, but rather their reaction to the reality that it's a market they can't ignore.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Unless they switch to another architecture at some point, there's no reason to assume this won't be done with the next Sony product tbh. Hell, even Nintendo.

Well, Scorpio itself will be different architecture.

The 360 is COMPLETELY different architecture and they've managed BC on that. I don't doubt that Microsoft from a technical point of view will be able to achieve permanent backwards compatibility. If they can get 360 BC on Xbox One, they can pretty much do anything at this point.

Guys in the emulator scene who work day and night on this stuff have only just barely got a commercial 360 game going on beefy hardware. Microsoft's engineers have got 300 games not only running, but in most cases running better on piss weak hardware. What they're doing was deemed impossible prior to E3 2015.

This is just a silly semantic debate at this point. I stand by the idea that backward compatibility does not make a system "generationless." I also think it's a good idea to see if there is a follow up to the Scorpio before we start rewarding MS for their future work, especially because PlayStation (and probably Nintendo) will theoretically be doing the same.

Who is rewarding them? Given the sales position they're currently in? I don't think anyone is. The difference though with Sony and Nintendo, is that we're assuming they will. Neither has said anything publicly. I"m more inclined to believe Sony wants everyone on PlayStation Now and Nintendo, well....they're Nintendo. They're the company charging us thrice for our NES/SNES/N64 roms. At the very least MS has made their intentions known and taking them at their word, is the far more consumer friendly option.

This^
I am still amazed at how many people believing MS "No one left behind" pr they will support the XBO for one year at best then drop it. The only reason they are saying this is to not upset their fan base but once Scorpio in the market they will force you to upgrade with their sweet pr talk and software releases strategy

Xbox 360 backwards compatibility only exists because Microsoft knows they chose the wrong generation to fuck up in. This was the generation where ecosystems have really been established and the majority are now in Sony's ecosystem. That's going to be VERY hard to break now for Microsoft. Hence 360 BC was born and this attempt to remove traditional generations. By getting on the front foot and telling 360 owners their games will work going forward on any Xbox and their Xbox One games will work on any Xbox going forward, their trying to get people back in their ecosystem in the only way they really can at this point.

They're putting the ball squarely in Sony's court, or at least attempting to, because I'd wager that IF the PS5 doesn't play PS4 games, there's going to be a lot of pissed of PlayStation customers out there. As a PS4 owner myself, I"m far more hesitant to go digital on PS4 simply because I don't actually know whether my digital library will play on PS5. I'm now 100% digital on Xbox going forward because at least MS has publicly said "Yes, all your games will work on future Xboxes".

No doubt 360 BC and this generationless stuff was a desperate attempt to not only get people back, but try and change the narrative from "console sales" to "engagement and ecosystem spending".

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

What the heck when did BC ever become what defined "generations" in the console space? It has always been forward compatibility as in when a new console came around with all new games the previous one couldn't play, that marked a new generation console. And I mean all new games as in all or the majority of the games for the new console couldn't be played on the previous gen, not like the New 3DS with one game.

 

[onQ123]

For the vast majority of games and developers, that trade wouldn't be worth it. Certainly not for anything from a large publisher. So MS really never needed to worry about a serious lack of third party support.

How long do you think the more hardcore console fans was going to continue to buy Xbox One versions of games while seeing PS4 & PS4 Pro gamers getting a better game for the same price? you don't think declining sales on some Xbox One software would have an affect on 3rd parties choosing to make exclusives?

 

[hodayathink]

BC is called PSNow and remasters.

Do people actuslly think Sony spent 300 million on Gaikai over nothing?

Or that publishers don't want to earn extra coins through remasters??

Sony's endgame for Gaikai/PSNow has never been backwards compatibility, because if it was was they overpaid for it by a lot. Their endgame is, and has always been, PSNow on TVs, cell phones, and PCs, getting people to pay to play Playstation games anywhere and everywhere.

 

[Matt]

How long do you think the more hardcore console fans was going to continue to buy Xbox One versions of games while seeing PS4 & PS4 Pro gamers getting a better game for the same price? you don't think declining sales on some Xbox One software would have an affect on 3rd parties choosing to make exclusives?

I'm saying the decline would have to be significantly more than it's reasonable to think it would be.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

What the heck when did BC ever become what defined "generations" in the console space? It has always been forward compatibility as in when a new console came around with all new games the previous one couldn't play, that marked a new generation console.

Backwards compatibility doesn't define a generation. Traditionally, a new generation has been defined by a new console releasing, as you said.

Microsoft is attempting to blur that line by saying that your Xbox One games will work on the new box and (for a while) new games will work across both Xbox One and Scorpio. Remember, Microsoft won't come out now, before Scorpio releases and tell people "Hey at some point, we're going to ditch the Xbox One".

But do they need to? I mean, I know people in general are fairly dumb, but they're not THAT dumb. I doubt anyone who is sound of mine actually thinks every new game forever is going to support Xbox One. Apple has already conditioned the market to understand that at some point, old hardware will no longer be supported by software or software updates.

But of course, Microsoft still wants to sell Xbox One S consoles so of course they're only going to say that new games will target Xbox One S and work on Scorpio. Which is technically the truth. They're just not saying how long that will happen for. Which right now, in a period where they still want to sell you an S, they won't do.

 

[bigboss370]

Um. No shit Sherlock. Does the iPhone 4 still play the newest iOS games?

The follow up to the Scorpio will be at least 7-8 years from Xbox One launch. That's PLENTY of time to ditch it. This is a shit attempt at FUD to be honest.

 

[c0de]

Which is just (hopefully) long tailed backwards compatibility, which you are going to get with the next PlayStation as well.

Considering what Sony did to make the pro compatible with the vanilla version, I wonder how they are going to make the ps5 compatible with the vanilla ps4 and the pro versions (if they even want to make the pro versions also compatible with the ps5).

 

[Chiggs]

Yeah but that's a bit like saying 'if Coca Cola didn't exist, Pepsi would be the biggest cola drink in the world'. Fact is the Pro is there. If it weren't, the strategy with the PS4 Slim would be different, or price would be different, or MS would have been less aggressive etc etc. Basically, that's a pointless way of looking at it.

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this time around, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

2 new PS models and Sony's victory was slight.

 

[Nightengale]

Considering what Sony did to make the pro compatible with the vanilla version, I wonder how they are going to make the ps5 compatible with the vanilla ps4 and the pro versions (if they even want to make the pro versions also compatible with the ps5).

Probably a PS4 emulator, no?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this generation, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

In the last few months they narrowed the gap by 300k .
With these numbers the gap is now 200k and that could be wipe out this month or grow.
Still think it's to early to say if there are more competitive now sales wise.

 

[c0de]

Probably a PS4 emulator, no?

I don't think it's that powerful to emulate it.

 

[DC1]

I have no idea why? And i couldn't believe how he chose to plug "fanboy" in there rather than actually trying to prove me wrong. Never new people were so edgy in NPD threads, but i will be staying out of them from now on. That's for sure.

Please don't go. 😢

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this time around, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

2 new PS models and Sony's victory was slight.

They haven't narrowed the gap, the worldwide gap has continued to increase in the last few months. Until Xbox manages to outsell PS4 worldwide, MS will have to continually come up with new strategies or risk slowly becoming irrelevant in the future.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Xbox one + Xbox Scorpio + Xbox two Scorpio + Riemann sum of all future xboxes = way beyond 40 million!

This is not how this works . While you can - and should - add up SKUs sharing the same games library (like PS4 and PS4 Pro), this doesn't apply for SKUs which don't, like - most likely - XBOX One and the Scorpio successor. We need to get that sorted out at some point, or we'll never agree on who won and who didn't. Which of course is of utmost importance for our peace of mind.

You can't be serious can you?
TRUE forward compatibility is impossible. You can't support the Xbox One forever. In the same way Apple can't support the iPhone 3GS forever. At some point you let go.

Um. No shit Sherlock.


And on the general debate about Scorpio becoming the major XBOX platform at some point, well, this might happen at some point, but it will take quite some time.

For now, MS needs both, the cheap entry-level XBOX One S AND the premium SKU Scorpio to compete in this new market. And as long as Scorpio is a premium-priced console the XBOX One S will be the best selling XBOX SKU out there. And if I am right, it will take quite some time before we see the first Scorpio exclusive games.

 

[DasPenguin]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this time around, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

2 new PS models and Sony's victory was slight.

What gap?

 

[AnthonypUK]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap* ** ***

* In America
**in the last 4 months.
*** in the months where they usually been competitive


The Problem they have is the "pre season", they sell consoles around the holidays fine, rest of the year they don't, which is why they're already estimating to be down YOY in revenue and console volume. Selling consoles Jan through June is the problem they have yet to solve, until they do that, they arent competitive.

 

[Three]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this time around, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

2 new PS models and Sony's victory was slight.

Yes because a buyer buys both consoles don't they. This is the daftest thing I've heard. Like saying yeah but the Xbox one/360 was the regular, the elite version and the S or hey but that includes the 1TB and 500Gb version that's two consoles! People don't buy both, at least not many to be significant. Also what was the gap? Was it 100k? How is 100k slight.

They haven't narrowed the gap, the worldwide gap has continued to increase in the last few months. Until Xbox manages to outsell PS4 worldwide, MS will have to continually come up with new strategies or risk slowly becoming irrelevant in the future.

There is no risk of that happening, xbox one sales may crater even but they would just push marketing for scorpio through out the year.

 

[Xando]

The Problem they have is the "pre season", they sell consoles around the holidays fine, rest of the year they don't, which is why they're already estimating to be down YOY in revenue and console volume. Selling consoles Jan through June is the problem they have yet to solve, until they do that, they arent competitive.

I think part in why they have problems in "pre season" is because they usually release their big hitters in the fall instead of spreading them out like Sony.

Just look at Horizon which is probably one of the (if not the biggest) game for Sonys first party next year and it'll release in february/march.

If i just look at myself MS hasn't really given me much of a reason to use my XB1 from january to august unless i want to play EA access or xbox360 games.

 

[kyser73]

Uh huh.

If anything, it goes to show that MS has narrowed the gap and that their recent strategy under Spencer is successful. While MS won't catch Sony this time around, they're certainly more competitive now than they have been at any point this generation. So...like I said, it bodes well for them...and for us.

2 new PS models and Sony's victory was slight.

The Gap.

In NA, it would still take MS a year or more of outselling PS4 by 100k a month to draw level.

The ~300k gap closing by MS in the US was, on a WW sales basis, plugged in 6 weeks of sales in the console graveyard that is Japan. As an example JPN is atypical because it's in decline, and its massive news when the Xbox sells more than 100 units in a week. It does serve the purpose, however of bringing perspective as to the value of the NA 'comeback' of Jul-Oct.

If MS wins December and either keeps winning in early 2017 or manage to keep the gap low they're laying a good foundation for Scorpio in NA. How they manage the rest of the world at this point is anyone's guess.

As has been mentioned by several sales gaffers like Mister Megative, these numbers are within expectation for year 4 sales, the full picture won't be available until January when we can look at holiday sales as a whole (I would point out here that in 2015 October was a dire month for both consoles but both massively rebounded in Nov/Dec).

The software situation is also very different. CoD underperformed, as did WD2 and other titles carrying weighty sales expectations and across the board this year just hasn't felt, for me anyway, to have much in the way of must-but titles be it first or third party.

Finally...people here and in the NPD prediction thread have been giving good posters with good info a lot of unnecessary grief too. Not what I expect from SalesGaf.

 

[The Pope]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

 

[kyser73]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

I don't think that's an unreasonable number, as it would put WW sales, assuming 32-35% share in NA, over 100mn.

 

[Asd202]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

I don't know with RDR2, God of War, The Last of US part II, FF7R and price drops Sony can still sell ton of consoles. Still 35 million would be a good number.

 

[AnthonypUK]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

depends how low they go, if they ever hit $149 it might rope in even more casuals and maybe even PS2 level pricing of $99.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

Are you talking about PS4 only or both of them ?
How much they end up with will depend on price and how long the gen is .
Still 35 million for PS4\Pro in the US very possible.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

whats PS4 US LTD and YTD?

 

[leeh]

This is just a silly semantic debate at this point. I stand by the idea that backward compatibility does not make a system "generationless." I also think it's a good idea to see if there is a follow up to the Scorpio before we start rewarding MS for their future work, especially because PlayStation (and probably Nintendo) will theoretically be doing the same.

I wouldn't call native execution of past titles backwards compatibility. You don't buy a new PC and say that all my games are backwards compatible.

Weve already been shown evidence that Sony won't be doing the same by having to have a hardware emulation mode on what essentially is the bang same architecture with more oomph. As soon as they change that, it's lost. We all know that Sony don't have a good history with BC either.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So what do you think lifetime US sales will be. I say 35 million in the US... I think the Ps4 has peaked already.

I'm not so sure it has peaked just yet. I think next could be that year. The Slim could possibly hit the $200 price point while being bundled with game like Battlefront 2 or Red Dead Dead 2. This year the price was good, but it was bundled with an old game.

 

[Nephilim]

i'll take a $100k bet on that.
how certain are you with your claim?

xbox one will be above 25m at the end of this year. so just 25m more xbox one s, xbox scorpio and xbox scorpio s in the next 5 to 7 years


so i really don't know what should be in any way funny about that. i find your comment rather funny. and still i don't laught about it, because i'm well-educated

can you prove you have that much money to wager?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I wouldn't call native execution of past titles backwards compatibility. You don't buy a new PC and say that all my games are backwards compatible.

Weve already been shown evidence that Sony won't be doing the same by having to have a hardware emulation mode on what essentially is the bang same architecture with more oomph. As soon as they change that, it's lost. We all know that Sony don't have a good history with BC either.

It would be foolish to think PS5 won't be backwards compatible. Both companies have the same strong incentive to keep their customers locked into their ecosystems going forward. A clean break makes it easier to jump to a competitor.

 

[leeh]

It would be foolish to think PS5 won't be backwards compatible. Both companies have the same strong incentive to keep their customers locked into their ecosystems going forward. A clean break makes it easier to jump to a competitor.

It would be foolish for them to not release BC of all titles from the get go, but considering their history, it's not foolish at all to think they won't. Especially given the scenario with the Pro.

 

[c0de]

It would be foolish to think PS5 won't be backwards compatible. Both companies have the same strong incentive to keep their customers locked into their ecosystems going forward. A clean break makes it easier to jump to a competitor.

Sure both have but we will see how Sony will manage to do it with a different architecture. Not not x86 but a different uarch for CPU and for GPU where you don't just downclock or shut off computing units.

 

[Matt]

I wouldn't call native execution of past titles backwards compatibility. You don't buy a new PC and say that all my games are backwards compatible.

Weve already been shown evidence that Sony won't be doing the same by having to have a hardware emulation mode on what essentially is the bang same architecture with more oomph. As soon as they change that, it's lost. We all know that Sony don't have a good history with BC either.

1) Now that is only a semantic debate. Who cares from a practicality standpoint how BC works, as long as it works? Besides the fact that 360 BC is done through emulation.

2) That's a huge and unwarranted jump to make. Also, Sony has a pretty good history with BC, with some peaks and valleys.

 

[hanspampel]

whats PS4 US LTD and YTD?

LTD is ~ 15.93m
YTD is ~ 3.52m
both numbers including november npd sales

xbox one is
LTD ~ 14.34m
YTD ~ 3.21m

sales ratio:
LTD 1.11:1
YTD 1.09:1

before the releasw of xbox one s, ps4 outsold xbox one by 1.14:1
xbox made some ground

 

[StrongBlackVine]

It would be foolish for them to not release BC of all titles from the get go, but considering their history, it's not foolish at all to think they won't. Especially given the scenario with the Pro.

Yes let's compare emulating the Cell processor to the modified off the shelf parts they are currently using will likely be using going forward. What scenario with the Pro? It runs all PS4 game just like the base console does. That is the definition of backwards compatibility. No improvement, but so what?

 

[Harmondale]

A big turn around for MS that I could see coming is their superior "arcetecture" that alows xbone s to increase the fps on older games. Imagine If scorpio can do this as well it would mean every unlocked fps game could run at 60+. The fact that ps4 pro dont enables this is a big dissapointment for me. Hands down If MS accomplish this. Not sure why "cerny" is so beloved but I never Heard of the equal person at ms team

 

[Three]

A big turn around for MS that I could see coming is their superior "arcetecture" that alows xbone s to increase the fps on older games. Imagine If scorpio can do this as well it would mean every unlocked fps game could run at 60+. The fact that ps4 pro dont enables this is a big dissapointment for me. Hands down If MS accomplish this. Not sure why "cerny" is so beloved but I never Heard of the equal person at ms team

Most games run the same between the S and original XB1. There are only a few exceptions in fact far less games run better on an XB1S than a Pro when compared to OG XB1 and base PS4.

 

[leeh]

Yes let's compare emulating the Cell processor to the modified off the shelf parts they are currently using will likely be using going forward. What scenario with the Pro? It runs all PS4 game just like the base console does. That is the definition of backwards compatibility. No improvement, but so what?

Yes, but it runs in an hardware emulation mode, and they can do that easily because it's the same architecture with a beefed up GPU. What happens when they swap the CPU, when there's a new revamped GCN? They're going have to spend a lot of engineering effort to create an expensive BC solution. What will happen to PS Now which is a relatively new subscription service?

I want the PS5 to have full BC support for PS4 titles, it'd be better for the market, developers and publishers alike. Even in a practical sense, they're still going to have to develop a PS4 and a PS5 version. Whether that's a big cost these days, I don't know, I can imagine it being substantially less than it used to be; although, on the Xbox you develop one version which runs across all their hardware revisions but with different profiles which reduces cost for everyone involved. For example, I recall a tweet from a developer saying that their renderer for Xbox and PC could be the exact same, but if you wanted to optimise for the Xbox, it'd be less than 1% of a code fragmentation.

I'm personally very interested in what the PS5 and post Scorpio Xbox look like. If you don't get BC on the PS5 and it's a reset, you could end up seeing more Xbox exclusives.

 

[Footos22]

A big turn around for MS that I could see coming is their superior "arcetecture" that alows xbone s to increase the fps on older games. Imagine If scorpio can do this as well it would mean every unlocked fps game could run at 60+. The fact that ps4 pro dont enables this is a big dissapointment for me. Hands down If MS accomplish this. Not sure why "cerny" is so beloved but I never Heard of the equal person at ms team

Because no-one but a few fanboy forum warriors care about 1-2 unnoticeable fps difference.

 

[Avtomat]

Most games run the same between the S and original XB1. There are only a few exceptions in fact far less games run better on an XB1S than a Pro when compared to OG XB1 and base PS4.

Maybe I am wrong here but was it not just one game, project cars, which showed a FPS increment of like 5 or were there more?

Such an improvement is unnoticeable I am surprised the Pro got so much sh*t for not improving the base PS4 games. It stood to reason that Sony did not want the liability of introducing bugs into 3rd party games so they did what they did

 

[c0de]

Most games run the same between the S and original XB1. There are only a few exceptions in fact far less games run better on an XB1S than a Pro when compared to OG XB1 and base PS4.

You don't know that because we don't have tests to infer anything. It could be either way and we will never know unless df at least retests all games and even then it would only be an incomplete measurement.