Maintenance
Member
Xbox still has a chance with 1% of China plus New Zealand and all those cliffs.
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Xbox still has a chance with 1% of China plus New Zealand and all those cliffs.
PdotMichael
Banned
Europe was pretty much always the bigger market than the USA for Sony.
For some reason is GAF just way too US centric in sales discussions - with that next gen prediction thread as infamous peak of that nonsense.
Norse
Member
And they charge 100$ per year and requires internet connection. Hardly qualifies as BC. It's a game streaming service, nothing more.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yeah very true plus I think it has the northern states of Brazil too, which is another major factor that all too many disregard when talking about Xbox WW sales.
Congratulations, Sony.
Numbers are down all around (as predicted) but it's difficult to spin a November win as a bad thing.
I'm sure any disappointment that Sony has over reduced YoY sales is mitigated by the fact that a percentage of those Sony consoles were sold unbundled for $399.
Numbers are down all around (as predicted) but it's difficult to spin a November win as a bad thing.
I'm sure any disappointment that Sony has over reduced YoY sales is mitigated by the fact that a percentage of those Sony consoles were sold unbundled for $399.
Liabe Brave
Member
Microsoft's backwards compatibility also requires internet connection. For most games, you will actually download more data using Xbox One BC than PS Now (though over less time).
I agree that the services are pretty different, though. Microsoft's is (ultimately) local, and every game must be purchased individually. Sony's is server-based, and a flat fee gives you access to all games. If you only want to play a few games, Microsoft is cheaper. If you want to play a bunch, Sony is cheaper.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
"Guys ignore the final score, we outscored the Yankees in innings 5 through 7. That's what really counts in baseball."
Such a shame we can't get numbers anymoreMakes these sort of discussions almost impossible.
It does really put a damper on these threads when they used to be so highly anticipated.
Norse
Member
They are still playing the game. The final score won't be known for a couple more yrs for NA market.
For those looking for numbers:
Xbone 1.0m
Ps4/pro 1.1m
Psvr 67k (not a typo)!!!
No official split numbers for ps4/pro yet.
RichiRamjag
Member
Looking at his comments on Reddit, he's seems like a chode tbh. He knew what those guys were like beforehand. Because of his behavior on there in general, I won't take his numbers seriously.
hanspampel
Banned
yeah i don't get that sentiment at all. you present some numbers and mostly you got just those kind of comments. do people here want to talk about sales or just make unfunny comments?
i mean it's obvoius there was a (big) change in the performance for ps4 and xbox one in the us the last 5 months...
and now the ps4 pro is already released and xbox one is not only selling better because the majority of ps4 buyer waited for pro.
after the holiday is over and we're 2 or 3 months into the new year we'll have a much better overall picture ans how tides have turned, or not
It's like a 1.6 million gap between the two in NA. Barring the PS4 absolutely collapses in sales. I just don't see this happening especially going into the new year imo.
But this is on a whole different level in terms of ownership and especially after the download, you can okay offline. And of course you don't have to pay twice for something you already bought.
Mister Megative
Banned
You can't be serious.
I'm sure both companies are aghast their consoles each sold a million in a holiday where sales are traditionally down YoY. I'm sure they're devastated.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Looking at the early 2017 lineup for both consoles will answer that question for you.
Liabe Brave
Member
Yes, it's a different model (ownership versus subscription), with different pros and cons. The cost equation isn't balanced entirely in one direction as you imply, though. If you already own PS3 games, you can resell them to defray the cost of playing them on Now. And compared to Xbox BC, with Now it's likely you'll gain immediate access to many more games you don't own. Whether that's ultimately cheaper depends on your individual play patterns.
There's a difference between being realistic and being a pollyanna, and you're definitely edging toward the latter. Being down YOY in year 4 isn't unusual, you're right. But I posted the NPD figures for the last two gens earlier in the thread, and the amount each platform is down this year compares poorly.
- Xbox One just had the worst drop Microsoft has ever seen, by a large amount (their previous machines were both up in year 4).
- PS4 just had the second-worst drop Sony has ever had. Only the PS2 was worse, and it had sold 4m more consoles by this point of its life, so had more room to fall.
Both are different in many ways. For once, they are technically completely different. For one, you need bandwidth once, for the other one constantly and especially a good latency which is not important when you download something.
Then you get worse image quality, compression artifacts and additional input delay.
How the games catalog will be in the end, we don't know yet but I guess both are adding games constantly.
Why one would sell a disc to rent a worse version of the game is not clear to me.
Obliterator
Member
It's been pretty limited in every market we've gotten numbers for. Seems to be doing ok for what it is but not a major momentum shifter at all
Hugh Swank
Member
2015 YTD
PS4 ~4.15m
XB1 ~3.55m
2016 YTD (using the rumored numbers yet)
PS4 ~3.52m (-15%)
XB1 ~3.22m (-9%)
This holiday is being pretty bad for both consoles
It's not THAT bad when we haven't even factored in December...
People need to understand to stop declaring things that aren't set until MS is more clear on positioning. Scorpio is literally just another MS box a year later than pro. Scorpio and pro have more similarities than differences, and all the messaging from MS so far has been about having a common library with XB1.
So where people get this narrative that 'ps pro is just a slightly faster ps4, but scorpio is a whole new generation' is honestly baffling to me.
Obliterator
Member
I think it comes from the gap between Xbone and Scorpio being substantially larger than the gap between PS4 and Pro
hanspampel
Banned
those 2015YTD numbers don't include december
you need to add 1.582m for ps4 and 1.376 for xbox one if you want to look at full years numbers. and both consoles will be down this december again.
Oh okay. Now that puts things in perspective
4th year being down YOY isn't entirely unusual for consoles no. YOY being down for new model introductions (2 new models in PS4's case) is unusual though.
Generally new models reinvogorate stagnating or declining sales. n3DS XL and now ($99) n3DS for example did that recently and kept a steadily declining (some even claimed dead) system up YOY. That things are down this holiday with Xbox One S, PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro most certainly isn't business as usual and I'd argue wasn't expected by most.
Sad Affleck
Member
I just hope we get separate Pro numbers. I'm quite curious to see what the consumers think of iterative consoles.
Mister Megative
Banned
I can tell you without hesitation that analysts who follow this stuff for a living and know what they're talking about are neither surprised or concerned. At all.
Obliterator
Member
If the numbers we have are real it did 300k
Indeed many of us saw it coming. In fact I think I had the first post in the NPD prediction thread and I said I fully expected both down YoY
RichiRamjag
Member
Who is Norse? I saw that post and assumed he was quoting the same thing.
Mate you'll be saying that until you're blue in the face, consoles are DOOOOMED! DOOOOMED! I tells ye! One month in one market is enough to know that.
I'm surprised it's so close. Also isn't this lower than last year overall?
Obviously taking this with a grain of salt.
There's a pretty big margin between "DOOOOMED! DOOOOMED!" and "Neither surprised or concerned. At all."
This isn't the end of the world and both systems are still selling very well given the current market climate. PS4 and Xbox One aren't going anywhere. At the same time it is a little worrying that mid-cycle remodels are doing so little to actually drive adoption up again, which is usual behavior and any analyst with no concern at all must have shockingly little grasp over the historical precents here (care to name names btw?). I'm really eager to see how MS positions Scorpio now.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Well, the numbers we do potentially have show the answer might be...not much?
If the PS4/Slim/Pro outsold the Xbox One/S by 100k, I'd assume that's a bad sign for iterative consoles in the US?
This is assuming the accuracy of the 1 and 1.1 million numbers.
Seems like it is going out of stock quite often on Amazon world wide so it is selling well. Probably shifted both USA and UK towards PS4 in past month.
As to silly doom and gloom, it seems both consoles will outsell their 2015 totals. Good for them.
Obliterator
Member
I spent a decent portion of my adult life making my living specifically off of the sales side of this industry. Needless to say, nothing about both consoles being down YoY is surprising and I assure you I have a firm grasp on the historical trajectory of this industry.
The thing that is worrying about this holiday season is software not hardware
Both are almost guaranteed to be down in the US. PS4 will be up in Japan though.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Been saying for some time that I actually think there's more quality software out there than the market can handle. There's literally too many good games being made and there just aren't enough people with the time and money to play them all.
Mister Megative
Banned
Never has one quote so perfectly encapsulated the overall "we know better than the pros" attitude that pervades GAF.
Your last point is somewhat salient but I'd argue the two aren't actually that unrelated. Both are worrying albeit to different degrees. The software drops are impacting and leading hardware pretty directly I think. Maybe next year will be better with stronger lineups, steeper hardware pricedrops and a more impressive midcycle upgrade?
Which pros? That's all I'm asking?
Another fun gaf-ism is the "Trust me I'm an pro/insider" line you keep pushing. Let's see how long you can manage that tightrope.
People continuously make the mistake and assume the Pro was going to light the world on fire and sell a million in a month on it's own. It's not like this thing is sitting over stocked in stores. Hell on amazon it just got back in stock a couple of days ago.
Price is King and while I think $400 is a reasonable price. It was still up against a cheaper model. No one should be saying if it's a failure or success after one month when Sony was clearly pushing the slim bundle. We'll see what next year holds but I can see Sony starting to push the Pro more with games like Horizon, ME, RDR2, Battlefront and Destiny with bundles.
Price is King and while I think $400 is a reasonable price. It was still up against a cheaper model. No one should be saying if it's a failure or success after one month when Sony was clearly pushing the slim bundle. We'll see what next year holds but I can see Sony starting to push the Pro more with games like Horizon, ME, RDR2, Battlefront and Destiny with bundles.
hanspampel
Banned
may you give us the source for that? i know the article from windowscentral, but didn't read anything about ps4 pro / regular ps4 split.
thanks in advance!
Mister Megative
Banned
You'll see statements next week. Literally no one but non-analysts on GAF are remotely concerned.
Obliterator
Member
To be honest I'm not sure, I could be mistaken on that. I just thought I recalled seeing it in one of these threads over the past day or two.
chaosmaster(1)
Member
It'll be interesting to see what Publishers take away from this and how they react to it. If it's less games that are service based how does that impact console HW? Do consumers want less games or do they want more? I've lurked in the npd threads and remember a discussion about there exists demand for games and the pubs aren't making enough games. Would pubs investing in more mid tier 40 dollar games with more experimental ideas help the market in any way and appeal to unsatisfied gamer tastes? I'm hoping positive changes happen but I'm leaning towards full on games as a service push which would really suck in terms of sw variety
So that's a no then, you can't cite one analyst. But they all universally agree, they all have zero concern, anyone who might voice any degree of concern is totally invalid due to it and you know all this directly as fact. But you can't name one name.
Next week should be fun. I hope you'll still be here for it.
anothertech
Member
Crapgamer numbers? Or is this an actual source?
ethomaz
Banned
Not only analysts have concern about these bad sales that both Sony and MS cut off $50... possible MS will confirm it as definitive price drop in January.
Yeap this year was bad.
Hope December can have better numbers.
Anybody trying to say theses numbers are good or expected are just spinning the wheel.
Yeap this year was bad.
Hope December can have better numbers.
Anybody trying to say theses numbers are good or expected are just spinning the wheel.