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[Elandyll]

LTD is ~ 15.93m
YTD is ~ 3.52m
both numbers including november npd sales

xbox one is
LTD ~ 14.34m
YTD ~ 3.21m

sales ratio:
LTD 1.11:1
YTD 1.09:1

before the releasw of xbox one s, ps4 outsold xbox one by 1.14:1
xbox made some ground

Dammn.
Ars Technica -was- right.

This thread...

 

[mcrommert]

Backwards compatibility doesn't define a generation. Traditionally, a new generation has been defined by a new console releasing, as you said.

Microsoft is attempting to blur that line by saying that your Xbox One games will work on the new box and (for a while) new games will work across both Xbox One and Scorpio. Remember, Microsoft won't come out now, before Scorpio releases and tell people "Hey at some point, we're going to ditch the Xbox One".

But do they need to? I mean, I know people in general are fairly dumb, but they're not THAT dumb. I doubt anyone who is sound of mine actually thinks every new game forever is going to support Xbox One. Apple has already conditioned the market to understand that at some point, old hardware will no longer be supported by software or software updates.

But of course, Microsoft still wants to sell Xbox One S consoles so of course they're only going to say that new games will target Xbox One S and work on Scorpio. Which is technically the truth. They're just not saying how long that will happen for. Which right now, in a period where they still want to sell you an S, they won't do.

Yeah I think the important question is Scorpio going to be left behind with the original Xbox one...or does it become the lower console

 

[mcrommert]

I won't be so confident about infinite backward compatible, not in current market position.
Those devices with "genrationless" approach have dominated market share like Windows PC, iOS and Andriod.
They don't go destructive generation because they want to keep status quo. See what happen to Windows phone when they don't have majority of the market share or WiiU.
When your product fail to gain market share, you start over, try to ignite excitement with new and shinny.

This is a terrible take. You are ignoring why Microsoft made the change from wp7 to 8 to 10. It was an underlying tech issue. Did they feel more okay with it because of a minuscule user base? Of course

Wp7 was based on ancient ce kernel that didn't scale to modern devices so they went to nt kernel for 8. Many devices updated from 8 to 10...and that change was to unify their operating systems

 

[hanspampel]

Dammn.
Ars Technica -was- right.


This thread...

i wouldn't go so far. xbox one made some ground, not a comback yet. that recent trend can change again in whatever direction.
and the ars technica article was about worldwide numbers. this is the us region only. without gfk and npd numbers, we have no clue how the situation is in different countrys.

in fact, xbox one could've lost some ground in the uk. before the xbox one s launch, they were outsold by ps4 about 1.2/1.25:1
they won september and october by a lower margin compared to the us and the lost november with a higher margin compared to last year

 

[Hugh Swank]

Where's NPD George?

 

[AtkO]

i wouldn't go so far. xbox one made some ground, not a comback yet. that recent trend can change again in whatever direction.
and the ars technica article was about worldwide numbers. this is the us region only. without gfk and npd numbers, we have no clue how the situation is in different countrys.

in fact, xbox one could've lost some ground in the uk. before the xbox one s launch, they were outsold by ps4 about 1.2/1.25:1
they won september and october by a lower margin compared to the us and the lost november with a higher margin compared to last year

Judging by how X1 got stomped prior to all of this in the rest of the world (with ratios of 7:1 for example...), why would it be any different now? The only place on Earth where this discussion (X1 taking some ground on the PS4) is potentially viable is in the UK/USA. The rest was already lost a long time ago and it's probably not gonna change.

I would just like to remind everyone that Sony announced this was the best BF for the PS4 worldwide, Microsoft didn't, meaning that X1 is down YoY despite being close in the USA apparently (1m to 1.1). So why do we still keep going on with this?

 

[onQ123]

i wouldn't go so far. xbox one made some ground, not a comback yet. that recent trend can change again in whatever direction.
and the ars technica article was about worldwide numbers. this is the us region only. without gfk and npd numbers, we have no clue how the situation is in different countrys.

in fact, xbox one could've lost some ground in the uk. before the xbox one s launch, they were outsold by ps4 about 1.2/1.25:1
they won september and october by a lower margin compared to the us and the lost november with a higher margin compared to last year

I'm pretty sure he/she was joking

 

[Kayant]

BC is called PSNow and remasters.

Do people actuslly think Sony spent 300 million on Gaikai over nothing?

Or that publishers don't want to earn extra coins through remasters??

Thinking they spent that much mainly for BC lol.

There is a reason PSNow is available on different platforms and the gaikai team helped with things like remote play.

 

[hanspampel]

Judging by how X1 got stomped prior to all of this in the rest of the world (with ratios of 7:1 for example...), why would it be any different now? The only place on Earth where this discussion (X1 taking some ground on the PS4) is potentially viable is in the UK/USA. The rest was already lost a long time ago and it's probably not gonna change.

I would just like to remind everyone that Sony announced this was the best BF for the PS4 worldwide, Microsoft didn't, meaning that X1 is down YoY despite being close in the USA apparently (1m to 1.1). So why do we still keep going on with this?

well if you getting outsold 7:1 and change that to 6:1 you still make up some ground technically.
it won't change anything, but by definition you do. and the data for most region is way to incomplete and not regular to crunch any numbers.

i agree us and uk are the only possible "comeback" regions. but as i said, they probably even lost ground in the uk.
to bad we're missing one week of uk sales in november, but ps4 should have outsold xbox one by at least 1.3:1 there. the us was only 1.1:1 in ps4 favour

 

[PdotMichael]

LTD is ~ 15.93m
YTD is ~ 3.52m
both numbers including november npd sales

xbox one is
LTD ~ 14.34m
YTD ~ 3.21m

sales ratio:
LTD 1.11:1
YTD 1.09:1

before the releasw of xbox one s, ps4 outsold xbox one by 1.14:1
xbox made some ground

What a complicated way to say that the gap got bigger.

 

[hanspampel]

What a complicated way to say that the gap got bigger.

what? the gap got smaller. both in absolut and relative numbers.

the LTD gap was ~ 1.77m or 14% in june 2016
the LTD gap is now ~ 1.59m or 11% in november 2016

 

[benny_a]

what? the gap got smaller. both in absolut and relative numbers.

the LTD gap was 1.77m in june 2016

It didn't make up any ground in November nor this year. You need to make it more clear where you arbitrarily determine it made up ground.

 

[PdotMichael]

what? the gap got smaller. both in absolut and relative numbers.

the LTD gap was ~ 1.77m in june 2016

I'm using and trusting your data and the YTD for the PS4 is larger than the Xbox One's.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Yes because a buyer buys both consoles don't they. This is the daftest thing I've heard. Like saying yeah but the Xbox one/360 was the regular, the elite version and the S or hey but that includes the 1TB and 500Gb version that's two consoles! People don't buy both, at least not many to be significant. Also what was the gap? Was it 100k? How is 100k slight.

A brand new, significantly more powerful hardware is not even remotely the same as an extra SKU with more hardware space. But nice try.

For the past 4 months these threads were filled with comments about buyers holding off their PS4 purchases to wait for the Pro. Which makes total sense. It's a no brainer that this was a factor that helped boost sales this month. The only question is how much.

 

[Fdkn]

I'm using and trusting your data and the YTD for the PS4 is larger than the Xbox One's.

You are counting preseason months

This year the season started in July

 

[Fox_Mulder]

So the gap between ps4 and xbox one has increased in usa?

 

[benny_a]

So the gap between ps4 and xbox one has increased in usa?

I have this handy formula to calculate if the gap increases or decreases.

If X > Y then the gap between X and Y increases by amount that X > Y.

 

[hanspampel]

It didn't make up any ground in November nor this year. You need to make it more clear where you arbitrarily determine it made up ground.

i already said "the change since release of the xbox one s"
that is what i'm talking about and where xbox made up some ground

H2CY2015 ps4 outsold xb1 by 630k units or 17,5%
H2CY2016 (so far without dec) xb1 outsold ps4 by 150k units or 7,5%
the delta changed 780k units in that period of time

 

[benny_a]

i already said "the change since release of the xbox one s"
that is what i'm talking about and where xbox made up some ground

That's great.

 

[PanicFreak]

So... what were the sales for each console? I've looked in both threads and can't find anything.

 

[cheesekao]

So... what were the sales for each console? I've looked in both threads and can't find anything.

Unless things have changed, some people are now using number from crapgamer so take that with a barrel of salt at the moment.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I have this handy formula to calculate if the gap increases or decreases.

If X > Y then the gap between X and Y increases by amount that X > Y.

In English, please?



So, PS4 increased the gap YTD, and in November. XBOX on the other hand decreased the gap between July and October.

But. The "big picture" is here is YTD.

 

[Equanimity]

Unless things have changed, some people are now using number from crapgamer so take that with a barrel of salt at the moment.

What the fudge! is this for real?

 

[cheesekao]

What the fudge! is this for real?

Yes. Apparently, people are using numbers from windows central (1.0m vs 1.1m) and a redditor discovered that the source of that number is from crapgamer and his buddy or whoever it was that was in the podcast that the author of the windows central article was in.

 

[statham]

Yes. Apparently, people are using numbers from windows central (1.0m vs 1.1m) and a redditor discovered that the source of that number is from crapgamer and his buddy or whoever it was that was in the podcast that the author of the windows central article was in.

This is fud. Its already been mentioned in this thread that he has his own sources.

 

[cheesekao]

This is fud. Its already been mentioned in this thread that he has his own sources.

Note that I never said it was 100% fake.

 

[Y2Kev]

"Generationless" future seems like marketing drivel. There will clearly be generations.

edit: I suppose whether or not Microsoft participates in them with dedicated hardware is the actual question.

 

[onQ123]

what? the gap got smaller. both in absolut and relative numbers.

the LTD gap was ~ 1.77m or 14% in june 2016
the LTD gap is now ~ 1.59m or 11% in november 2016

So you mean in the 4 months where Xbox One had a new upgraded model with new features it was able to sell 180K more than PS4 was able to sell with 1 month of having a new upgraded model with new features?


I haven't checked but does these numbers even include the November numbers that we are not even sure are the real numbers yet?

 

[Chris1]

Generations will end when they stop making games for XB1. Which isn't gonna happen until the PS5/Scorpio 2 probably. I hope nobody actually thinks they will continue to make XB1 games in like 2040.

There's no point making Scorpio a "new gen" right now when games are still being made for PS4 (which means they should be able to run on XB1 too)

 

[Hugh Swank]

So... what were the sales for each console? I've looked in both threads and can't find anything.

Unless things have changed, some people are now using number from crapgamer so take that with a barrel of salt at the moment.

According to an article by Jez Cordon in Windows Central, Sony & MS each sold around 1 million consoles in November, with Sony taking the lead by about 100,000 units overall.

The rumor that the information was provided to Jez by Crapgamer & some guy who calls himself Mooch, was refuted by Jez on Twitter when he was asked the question directly. You can see his response on his Twitter @jezcordon

Furthermore, there has been an edit posted on the article from the editor of Windows Central that reads as follows;

"Editor's Note: Due to the controversial nature of this article and the sourcing, I want to go on record as saying that the information provided here is 100% accurate and not something rumored. These are the facts for the November NPD figures and they have been vetted. -DR"

So take this information as you will, but according to the guys at Windows Central, their information is accurate.

http://m.windowscentral.com/xbox-november-sales-1-million

 

[wesleyshark]

So you mean in the 4 months where Xbox One had a new upgraded model with new features it was able to sell 180K more than PS4 was able to sell with 1 month of having a new upgraded model with new features?


I haven't checked but does these numbers even include the November numbers that we are not even sure are the real numbers yet?

afaik we haven't gotten officially released #s yet for November, so it kind of throws any of these models into question.

 

[PanicFreak]

According to an article by Jez Cordon in Windows Central, Sony & MS each sold around 1 million consoles in November, with Sony taking the lead by about 100,000 units overall.

The rumor that the information was provided to Jez by Crapgamer & some guy who calls himself Mooch, was refuted by Jez on Twitter when he was asked the question directly. You can see his response on his Twitter @jezcordon

Furthermore, there has been an edit posted on the article from the editor of Windows Central that reads as follows;

"Editor's Note: Due to the controversial nature of this article and the sourcing, I want to go on record as saying that the information provided here is 100% accurate and not something rumored. These are the facts for the November NPD figures and they have been vetted. -DR"

So take this information as you will, but according to the guys at Windows Central, their information is accurate.

http://m.windowscentral.com/xbox-november-sales-1-million

Thanks. That would be really bad if true.

 

[cheesekao]

According to an article by Jez Cordon in Windows Central, Sony & MS each sold around 1 million consoles in November, with Sony taking the lead by about 100,000 units overall.

The rumor that the information was provided to Jez by Crapgamer & some guy who calls himself Mooch, was refuted by Jez on Twitter when he was asked the question directly. You can see his response on his Twitter @jezcordon

Furthermore, there has been an edit posted on the article from the editor of Windows Central that reads as follows;

"Editor's Note: Due to the controversial nature of this article and the sourcing, I want to go on record as saying that the information provided here is 100% accurate and not something rumored. These are the facts for the November NPD figures and they have been vetted. -DR"

So take this information as you will, but according to the guys at Windows Central, their information is accurate.

http://m.windowscentral.com/xbox-november-sales-1-million

I'm no insider so I can't say for sure whether they're right or wrong but I'll personally be waiting for numbers from more trusted sources to verify their claims.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Yes. Apparently, people are using numbers from windows central (1.0m vs 1.1m) and a redditor discovered that the source of that number is from crapgamer and his buddy or whoever it was that was in the podcast that the author of the windows central article was in.

Not the case. The author of the article is friendly with Crapgamer, but that's not the source of his numbers. His source is some unnamed other person.

i already said "the change since release of the xbox one s"
that is what i'm talking about and where xbox made up some ground

H2CY2015 ps4 outsold xb1 by 630k units or 17,5%
H2CY2016 (so far without dec) xb1 outsold ps4 by 150k units or 7,5%
the delta changed 780k units in that period of time

Sure, if we carefully pick our comparison periods we can "establish" any trend we want. For example, during H2CY2014 Xbox made up 190k units, almost surely a much larger amount than this year. Yet 2015 was not close.

The overarching reality is that Xbox is falling behind PS4 further and further every year. If PS4 is over Xbox One by 320k+ in combined Nov/Dec this year, this won't just be by absolute units, either. Microsoft would then be ending 2016 further back by percentage than at the end of 2015.

 

[Chris1]

I believe the numbers, I would think if they were gonna lie to make Sony look bad they wouldn't have picked such low sales figures that also makes XB1 look bad. 1M and 1.1M are huge drops from last year and terrible for both consoles.

 

[Hugh Swank]

I'm no insider so I can't say for sure whether they're right or wrong but I'll personally be waiting for numbers from more trusted sources to verify their claims.

Agreed... I'd like to see the data from a verifiable source as well. I asked the question, "Where's NPD George?", earlier in this thread, but nobody answered. I thought he was a Gaf verified NPD employee. I also remember there being another Gaf verified NPD insider, but I can't remember his name.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

That's great.

Loool.

 

[tusken77]

I'm no insider so I can't say for sure whether they're right or wrong but I'll personally be waiting for numbers from more trusted sources to verify their claims.

Yup, I'm certainly not prepared to believe anything from someone that's happy to be associated with clowns like Crap/Mooch.

 

[EmiPrime]

The numbers may well be right, I'd just rather we didn't link to someone who does podcasts with racist idiots who drop n bombs and call Japanese people "rice eaters". Surely we can find a more reputable source.

 

[Humdinger]

I tend to believe the 1.1 vs. 1.0 million numbers are accurate. They don't come from Crapgamer; they are from another source, and the guy is standing behind them pretty firmly.

It's not great news for either camp, but I think it's worse for Sony. With the unveiling of Pro, they would have hoped for a bigger gap. Without Pro, it's reasonable to assume MS would have continued their winning streak.

 

[Chris1]

The numbers may well be right, I'd just rather we didn't link to someone who does podcasts with racist idiots who drop n bombs and call Japanese people "rice eaters". Surely we can find a more reputable source.

I don't know why people are allowed to say their name or link to their stuff. If not for Neogaf I wouldn't even know who Crapgamer, Mooch or that other guy who's name escapes me is. It only gives them exposure and helps them grow.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Sure, if we carefully pick our comparison periods we can "establish" any trend we want. For example, during H2CY2014 Xbox made up 190k units, almost surely a much larger amount than this year. Yet 2015 was not close.
.

I would have gone with online players on November 27 cp. to last year, but I guess your example is fine as well.

 

[LowEndTorque]

LTD is ~ 15.93m
YTD is ~ 3.52m
both numbers including november npd sales

xbox one is
LTD ~ 14.34m
YTD ~ 3.21m

sales ratio:
LTD 1.11:1
YTD 1.09:1

before the releasw of xbox one s, ps4 outsold xbox one by 1.14:1
xbox made some ground

Interesting.

So the US market accounts for only 31% of the PS4’s total global sales (15.93m/50m). Meaning that 69% of the PS4’s global sales are from outside the NPD market.

EDIT: And if we do the same comparison for XBO, putting an arbitrary number 24M XBO sold world wide to date, then the US market accounts for at least 60% of XBO global sales (14.34M/24M) vs. 31% for PS4.

 

[dugdug]

The numbers may well be right, I'd just rather we didn't link to someone who does podcasts with racist idiots who drop n bombs and call Japanese people "rice eaters". Surely we can find a more reputable source.

Yep. Maybe Jez's source is accurate, but, all credibility is lost for me when you regularly associate with scum bags.

 

[Hugh Swank]

Yep. Maybe Jez's source is accurate, but, all credibility is lost for me when you regularly associate with scum bags.

Agreed, Jez seems like a good dude, but he would be smart to distance himself from those 2 morons if he wants to be taken seriously.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

Interesting.

So the US market accounts for only 31% of the PS4’s total global sales (15.93m/50m). Meaning that 69% of the PS4’s global sales are from outside the NPD market.

Yep, that's more incredible considering that PS4 is selling more than the other consoles in the NPD market.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I tend to believe the 1.1 vs. 1.0 million numbers are accurate. They don't come from Crapgamer; they are from another source, and the guy is standing behind them pretty firmly.

It's not great news for either camp, but I think it's worse for Sony. With the unveiling of Pro, they would have hoped for a bigger gap. Without Pro, it's reasonable to assume MS would have continued their winning streak.

Without Pro maybe Sony would have had better bundles or do more .
Plus Pro was way more expensive this month compare to the slim .

Interesting.

So the US market accounts for only 31% of the PS4’s total global sales (15.93m/50m). Meaning that 69% of the PS4’s global sales are from outside the NPD market.

Which is normal for Sony give or take a few percent .

 

[Humdinger]

Interesting.

So the US market accounts for only 31% of the PS4’s total global sales (15.93m/50m). Meaning that 69% of the PS4’s global sales are from outside the NPD market.

EDIT: And if we do the same comparison for XBO, putting an arbitrary number 24M XBO sold world wide to date, then the US market accounts for at least 60% of XBO global sales (14.34M/24M) vs. 31% for PS4.

I did some calculations a year ago, and they came out around the same way -- NPD accounts for about a third of PS4's sales and about 60% of Xbox's. Roughly.

 

[DasPenguin]

well if you getting outsold 7:1 and change that to 6:1 you still make up some ground technically.
it won't change anything, but by definition you do. and the data for most region is way to incomplete and not regular to crunch any numbers.

i agree us and uk are the only possible "comeback" regions. but as i said, they probably even lost ground in the uk.
to bad we're missing one week of uk sales in november, but ps4 should have outsold xbox one by at least 1.3:1 there. the us was only 1.1:1 in ps4 favour

Technically is the perfect word for that one. That's like the new Skip Bayless show being the fastest growing sports program. Technically when you go from 1 viewer to 2 you are growing faster than anyone else.

There is no "closing of the gap" in this gen. PS3 kept closing the gap every year during the last gen even though they got straight up murdered in the States. This time they are pretty much neck and neck and Europe and Japan don't care one bit about the One.

 

[RocknRola]

Such a shame we can't get numbers anymore Makes these sort of discussions almost impossible.