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[HeeHo]

Some of the complaints I can't believe I am reading. Just experiment more if you think certain skills are useless. Sabin's techniques are totally worthwhile, Gau's abilities, while not explained, can be extremely powerful early on. Forgive the game for trying to interject a little humor with the mostly somber tone of the game, yeesh. You are spoiled by CT, it's a great game, but it also had the advantage of having a dream team on it.

VI has a bit more depth when it comes to its systems for leveling and accessory combinations. Try using the Genji Glove + Offering combo when you get it, yeowzers. 8 attacks for the price of 1.

 

[Malvingt2]

FFVI is a better game... is not even funny.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Shame we never got to experience FFVII on SNES. After the release of Chrono Trigger, Square was going to combine the know-how of both the CT team and the FFVI team to create "FFVII", the ultimate 2D RPG experience.

Sadly the whole thing was scrapped when Square moved to the Ultra 64 and the FFVII project was restarted from scratch.

 

[kromeo]

No you're fine. FFVi is incredibly mediocre & generic. You have to remember in America all they had before it really was FF1 & FF4. So at the time to most Americans it seemed amazing when in fact it was just average for it's day.

What are these amazing snes rpgs that make VI look average?

 

[z0m3le]

The problems you have with ff6 are not present in ff7. I know it can be popular to dump on ff7 but it keeps its tone, battle system makes sense and the characters are limited like CT, which helps their individual personalities and motivations make more sense.

It's not a perfect game and in this genre CT might be the closest we've ever seen there, but it holds up quite a bit better than 6.

I do hear that the persona games are really good. If you enjoy anime, it's going to appeal to you even more.

 

[LKSmash]

No you're fine. FFVi is incredibly mediocre & generic. You have to remember in America all they had before it really was FF1 & FF4. So at the time to most Americans it seemed amazing when in fact it was just average for it's day.

Hey Snarkathon 3000, do elaborate on what other RPGs completely fucking trumped FFVI. I'll take my answer off the air.

 

[BriGuy]

What are these amazing snes rpgs that make VI look average?

Yeah, I'm dying to know. It's one of my favorite SNES games, but apparently it's a massive pile of shit next to these amazing games I've been missing out on for the last 20 years.

 

[Rad-]

Try VII, OP. Just don't let the graphics bother you.

 

[BocoDragon]

That split part is actually where it lost me, I picked Sabin's path first and it was such a random journey - you visit Doma, but the whole poisoning scene just happens so quickly that it's hard to sink in, and then you go through the forest and I'm left wondering why we're doing any of this, until the way too rushed scene with Cyan's family. You wander around and find Gau and head back, and I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be feeling about it there.

I mean this is entirely "the game has aged" .

Think back to the era... what other console games had long drawn out narrative moments? Almost none of them. For a game to have even 20-30 seconds of drama had huge impact.

These Kefka poisoning/Cyan's family scenes that you say rushed by and didn't spell out what you were supposed to be thinking/feeling... they were some of the most ponderous and impactful moments in a medium where we weren't generally expecting to find any of that. Obviously by the late 90s console games had the currency to act like movies and really spell out the narrative in a more cinematic fashion, but earlier than that any moment of pathos in a mere videogame were kind of surprising, and they certainly weren't going to take much of your time.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Final Fantasy V is leagues ahead of both those games

Best first reply of all time.

You are now my favorite GAFer.

I do concede that FFVI has better plot, story and character development, though FFV's job system is the GOAT.

 

[TDLink]

That split part is actually where it lost me, I picked Sabin's path first and it was such a random journey - you visit Doma, but the whole poisoning scene just happens so quickly that it's hard to sink in, and then you go through the forest and I'm left wondering why we're doing any of this, until the way too rushed scene with Cyan's family. You wander around and find Gau and head back, and I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be feeling about it there.

To me all the most memorable parts outside of the opening, Opera House, and world being ruined, are contained within the split section of the game.

The poisoning, the ghost train, the Celes and Locke stormtrooper bit, Going down the river and dealing with Ultros...they're all really good moments.

I mean this is entirely "the game has aged" .

Think back to the era... what other console games had long drawn out narrative moments? Almost none of them. For a game to have even 20-30 seconds of drama had huge impact.

These Kefka poisoning/Cyan's family scenes that you say rushed by and didn't spell out what you were supposed to be thinking/feeling... they were some of the most ponderous and impactful moments in a medium where we weren't generally expecting to find any of that. Obviously by the late 90s games had the currency to act like movies and really spell out the narrative in a more cinematic fashion, but earlier than that any moment of pathos in a mere videogame were kind of surprising, and they certainly weren't going to take much of your time.

Yeah entirely agree with this.

 

[120v]

CT was sort of a "greatest hits" of square's golden era... it was an accumulation of several concepts they've had since the beginning of FFIV's development. it was their victory lap after several homeruns so i think it helps to keep in mind FF6 came before

i hate to pull the "you had to be there" card but at the time there really was nothing like FF6. the notion of that kind of fantasy epic being possible on cart based 16 bit hardware was unconscionable at the time. i'd like to think it's timeless and anybody could just jump in and enjoy it like its 1994 but i guess that's not the reality

 

[HeeHo]

What are these amazing snes rpgs that make VI look average?

Haha, I know. I was completely blown away by VI. Granted, it WAS my first FF. It's pretty hard to deny that it takes the player on quite the journey and I, personally, didn't play anything that was close to it aside from Chrono Trigger and SMRPG.

For its time, it really nailed the mood. Hard to believe one of the complaints is the music too. I have only played the FFIV DS remake, and while I found it good, it did seem a bit simpler than VI in terms of plot.

 

[wtd2009]

I can understand being underwhelmed, it's still an amazing game IMO. I am really hoping a remake happens someday, because i always felt that the ambition exceeded the resources they had at the time, and i think it'd really do justice to their vision to rebuild it with today's graphical standards. I can only hope.

 

[Hazmat]

Everyone has their own taste, but the complaints about the sprites in FF6 make me think that CT has given the OP unrealistic expectations.

 

[CharminUltra]

Same here, OP.

I made the mistake of playing Chrono Trigger before FFVI, so by the time I played FFVI the experience was rather... underwhelming (to put it nicely) by comparison. Chrono Trigger is just such a sublime experience that other JRPGs just don't compare.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

You are right, that's why I fixed it.

I threw up a little

 

[BassForever]

Final Fantasy 5 is a great game

I'd say its an overall better game then FF6

But Chrono Trigger is in a class of its own

 

[Stopdoor]

I mean this is entirely "the game has aged" .

Think back to the era... what other console games had long drawn out narrative moments? Almost none of them. For a game to have even 20-30 seconds of drama had huge impact.

These Kefka poisoning/Cyan's family scenes that you say rushed by and didn't spell out what you were supposed to be thinking/feeling... they were some of the most ponderous and impactful moments in a medium where we weren't generally expecting to find any of that. Obviously by the late 90s console games had the currency to act like movies and really spell out the narrative in a more cinematic fashion, but earlier than that any moment of pathos in a mere videogame were kind of surprising, and they certainly weren't going to take much of your time.

I feel like some of this awkward narrative stuff isn't really fully due to the technology though - like just some better dramatic pauses, different pacing, or structuring the act differently would work better. Like walking through Doma first and meeting Cyan before this all happened?

Somehow Chrono Trigger avoids this stuff? Like when you go back to fight the Fiendlord, find out it was Magus, and he revives Lavos, it's a much more smooth scene? It's had all the necessary build up and doesn't need to awkwardly get into pseudo fight scenes to show combat.

 

[NormalFish]

Stealth "best FF" thread, I see. Try IX, OP.

 

[Stopdoor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQtv2KEGvsw

Like man, the before and after this fight is just so much more slick. The translation is a bit more rough than the DS version, but it just comes across so much more dramatic due to the animations, spritework, pacing, transition to battle, music, etc.

Like FFVI's music is great, but it feels like it's absolutely carrying a lot of scenes entirely on its own and doesn't change to the action very well.

Also makes it clear to me I'd like Chrono Trigger a lot less with these ugly menus vs. the DS version's nice UI.

 

[JeTmAn81]

It's all downhill after Chrono Trigger, that game just does everything too well

 

[To Far Away Times]

VI is probably the next best JRPG after Chrono Trigger. It's an amazing game.

 

[Rockk]

The best games are the games with flaws.

 

[Hazmat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQtv2KEGvsw

Like man, the before and after this fight is just so much more slick. The translation is a bit more rough than the DS version, but it just comes across so much more dramatic due to the animations, spritework, pacing, transition to battle, music, etc.

Like FFVI's music is great, but it feels like it's absolutely carrying a lot of scenes entirely on its own and doesn't change to the action very well.

Also makes it clear to me I'd like Chrono Trigger a lot less with these ugly menus vs. the DS version's nice UI.

If you set the bar for "good" at the Magus fight in Chono Trigger then just stop playing 16-bit RPGs. You'll just spend your time lamenting that they aren't as good as maybe the best part in maybe the best JRPG.

And you seem really hung up on menus.

 

[jb1234]

If you set the bar for "good" at the Magus fight in Chono Trigger then just stop playing 16-but RPGs. You'll just spend your time lamenting that they aren't as good as maybe the best part in maybe the best JRPG.

Yup. You're making an impossible comparison here, OP. You should try playing some 16-bit RPGs with storytelling that's more average for the genre at the time (like Lufia) just to see how far ahead FFVI and CT were.

 

[CanUKlehead]

I played CT before FF3, but because I had watched friends play FF3 so knew about the battle system, CT was a pleasant surprise but didn't entirely ruin FF3 for me.

While CT's story was dark to an extent, FF3 was depressing and more gripping for me, the number of characters in 3 was welcome and I had a blast.

CT is still GOAT for me, so I can maybe see where you're coming from, but FF3 was quality.

 

[Stopdoor]

If you set the bar for "good" at the Magus fight in Chono Trigger then just stop playing 16-bit RPGs. You'll just spend your time lamenting that they aren't as good as maybe the best part in maybe the best JRPG.

And you seem really hung up on menus.

Menus are kind of important? I do UI work in real life, annoying UIs are annoying and make a game worse pretty easily, especially when it's a menu-heavy RPG. Like I said in my OP, accidentally "attack"ing enemies with Relm because of the cramped low-information UI is a clear downside.

Yup. You're making an impossible comparison here, OP. You should try playing some 16-bit RPGs with storytelling that's more average for the genre at the time (like Lufia) just to see how far ahead FFVI and CT were.

I can play and appreciate old games, but I wasn't expecting such a gulf of quality between these two because I thought they were released around a similar time. And since FFVI is held up as a top title of a top series of games, it doesn't seem wrong to have such high standards?

 

[CHC]

Agree with a lot of your points, I feel like it's something I missed the boat on unfortunately. Whereas I played Chrono Trigger in 2011 for the first time and had an incredible experience.

A lot of FFVI just feels like "so what?" and I have to keep trying to imagine what X or Y scene would be like if I had been playing the game when it came out rather than now. With Chrono I feel like it still has that internal consistency that doesn't make a modern player feel the age.

I also HATE grid-based movement. Games like CT and Secret of Mana feel much better since you can move any amount in any direction.

 

[Kraq]

It's interesting that you posted this, because I have similar feelings on FF6 as well. I played a patched GBA version with superior audio, UI and sprites and even then, came away feeling unsatisfied. This was my first time playing the game ever, and that was about three months ago. The entire second half of the game lacks any meaningful direction, and the whilst the story in the first half was good, it certainly wasn't anywhere near all the hype I had been expecting it to be.

FF7 on the other hand, is a much better game with a better paced plot. The materia system is also great and I wish it could have been incorporated in more than just one game (to my knowledge).

I'll also say that the only FF games I've played at release are 13 and 15. Everything else, I've gone back when they were many, many years old. I have no nostalgia towards this franchise. So being said, FF7 and 9 are two of my favourite games of all time, and I played both of them over a decade after initial release. I recommend you play those before you pass a final judgement on JRPGs.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Is the fan patched gba version the one with the patched music.

OG gba ff3/6 music does not equal snes ff 3/6 music

 

[BocoDragon]

Menus are kind of important? I do UI work in real life, annoying UIs are annoying and make a game worse pretty easily, especially when it's a menu-heavy RPG. Like I said in my OP, accidentally "attack"ing enemies with Relm because of the cramped low-information UI is a clear downside.

Is this a GBA port thing? I'd think so.

I wouldn't call the UI on SNES cramped.

 

[Saikyo]

If you play ffvi first you will say its better than ct.

If you play ct first you will say its better than ffvi.

Its simply a matter of what jrpg you played before.

 

[Stopdoor]

Is the fan patched gba version the one with the patched music.

OG gba ff3/6 music does not equal snes ff 3/6 music

Yeah, it's music patched. But I find the music is almost too good for the game? It often conflicts with the emotion that's going on or doesn't adapt well to action.

Is this a GBA port thing? I'd think so.

I wouldn't call the UI on SNES cramped.

It's probably a little more squashed on GBA, but looking at that video of SNES Chrono Trigger I doubt I'd like it much better on SNES. I don't understand why there's piles of blank space in the Magic menus and that seems universal across the versions? Why the character's action menu that's currently open isn't super clearly marked as for that character? Why moving around the cursor to target things is such an awkward amount of clicks? It sounds like subtle complaints but it grinds on me after awhile.

If you play ffvi first you will say its better than ct.

If you play ct first you will say its better than ffvi.

Its simply a matter of what jrpg you played before.

Is it though? Like I showed off in an earlier video, Chrono Trigger just does dramatic scenes really well. The battle system is different in quite a few ways. The transitions to battle are smooth and seamless. There's not a lot Final Fantasy VI can hold over it unless you extremely value complexity in the battle system or somehow connect with the FFVI characters more.

 

[kromeo]

or somehow connect with the FFVI characters more.

You say that like it would be a surprising thing.. The characters have always be the most loved thing about VI. It's not like CT exactly has super deep characterization

 

[Pachinko]

Chrono Trigger remains the best JRPG in existence despite being 22 years old now , FF6 is still the hallmark of final fantasy games but there are a number of things that might make it hard to go back to if you don't have at least a little bit of nostalgia goggles.

Rather than struggling to get into FF6 OP, I'd suggest just moving on to JRPGs that follow more of chrono triggers mold - stuff like Grandia (only the original one) or zeboyds recent homage to the best hits of the 90's - Cosmic Star Heroine.

Whatever you do , don't waste your time with chrono cross , that game is garbage.

 

[Stopdoor]

You say that like it would be a surprising thing.. The characters have always be the most loved thing about VI. It's not like CT exactly has super deep characterization

I guess, I just find the characters too obscured by all the other conventions of the game.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Whatever you do , don't waste your time with chrono cross , that game is garbage.

Wrong.

 

[Balfour]

You know maybe

Like with any game in a genre

You could absolutely love one, and dislike another

It is not like FF6 is universally loved or adored. No game is. It is not like a game is "factually" that good. How many games get high praise everywhere but then you see a topic like this saying "I just don't see it?" Quite a lot just on GAF alone

I love FF7, but damn me if I think anyone else should think its a good game too.

I think FF2 is trash but plenty of other people like it

 

[Blobbers]

I had way more fun with FF V than either CT or FF VI. Why are people being dismissive toward the first post so?

 

[StoneFox]

FFV = CT >>> FFVI.

Square tried to reinvent the wheel after V and it wasn't until IX that they remembered how good V was so they remade it

Spoiler

without the job system tho

.

 

[Stopdoor]

You know maybe

Like with any game in a genre

You could absolutely love one, and dislike another

It is not like FF6 is universally loved or adored. No game is. It is not like a game is "factually" that good. How many games get high praise everywhere but then you see a topic like this saying "I just don't see it?" Quite a lot just on GAF alone

I love FF7, but damn me if I think anyone else should think its a good game too.

I think FF2 is trash but plenty of other people like it

Sure. But like I said in an earlier post, I'm just kind of surprised, like maybe I'm missing something. These games came out around the same time, and FFVI is a top game from a top series. So I'm throwing out the rope for someone maybe to get me to look at it from a different way, it might be my perspective or because I don't understand something obvious about the battle system.

Some people might be content to declare a well-regarded game as trash on their opinion alone, but I find other people's experiences valuable and interesting? I dunno.

 

[kromeo]

Whatever you do , don't waste your time with chrono cross , that game is garbage.

Oh dear

 

[BocoDragon]

It's probably a little more squashed on GBA, but looking at that video of SNES Chrono Trigger I doubt I'd like it much better on SNES. I don't understand why there's piles of blank space in the Magic menus and that seems universal across the versions? Why the character's action menu that's currently open isn't super clearly marked as for that character? Why moving around the cursor to target things is such an awkward amount of clicks? It sounds like subtle complaints but it grinds on me after awhile.
.

The magic menu has a fixed position for every spell in the game.

I dunno you're not wrong (I'm a UX designer). Just remember that this game came out ... before the web (well, before anyone had it). It came out a decade before the word "UX" was even coined. Interface design was in the dark ages. This was a clean menu for its day, and that's saying something because no one cared about that kind of thing at all back then.

And yeah as you say, it's the same menu layout as Chrono Trigger in their original form.

 

[YankeeDonB]

There's no accounting for taste. CT is a very polished experience. But the characters are mostly cartoonish avatars, and the game is happy to treat them just that way.

VI has an over-easy battle system, and it can be a little tonally uneven in places. But it's a great, operatic tale that mostly takes its characters seriously within the constraints of the technology and form. Does Setzer's introduction feel rushed? Maybe. Except you're questing looking for wings for hours, and his instantly iconic theme and entrance, at the dramatic height of the in-game opera set him up perfectly as the game pivots to its second high flying act. The deeper you dig, the more depth you find. And the main tale's pacing, sprite work, and music is about as tight and well done as anything in the 16 or 32 bit eras.

And though the WoR meanders, it allows a great tale of redemption that artfully develops the main characters beyond what I ever expected. These people have to dig deep and figure out what makes life worth living after the apocalypse, and, yeah, that might involve the painstaking grind of catching fish for your ailing grandfather.

 

[kromeo]

FFV = CT >>> FFVI.

Square tried to reinvent the wheel after V and it wasn't until IX that they remembered how good V was so they remade it

Spoiler

without the job system tho

.

V barely has a story, awful generic villain, completely unmemorable world.. I'm not sure what you think it has in common with IX. V's strength is its gameplay, which also happens to be the worst aspect of IX

 

[Pancake Mix]

Chrono Trigger isn't really impressing. Did FFVII-FFIX ruin JRPG's for me?

I didn't have any love for Chrono Trigger by the time I got to it. No game is for everyone.

 

[Tarextherex]

Yes, Chrono Trigger is better. I used to not really feel FF/turn based in general after being spoiled by CT and other games. Take a break imo. FFVI picked up when your party splits for me, the opening wasn't really that good. Maybe FFVII would be more in your taste, now that game's opening is one of the rare that compare to CT's

 

[sotojuan]

Yeah, I'd give VII a try - Steam version! You may still find the fanfare and silliness distracting (I personally prefer it to the grimdark serious tone Square forces on FFVII media now) but I found the plot more interesting and the gameplay more streamlined.

 

[StoneFox]

V barely has a story, awful generic villain, completely unmemorable world.. I'm not sure what you think it has in common with IX. V's strength is its gameplay, which also happens to be the worst aspect of IX

It was mainly a joke on how 80% of the soundtrack of IX was remixes of V's OST.