• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Final Fantasy VI isn't really impressing? Has Chrono Trigger ruined JRPGs for me?

Stopdoor

Member
So I'm not much of an RPG guy, I'll preface. I've played Pokemon games back in the day, Paper Mario is pretty cool, I've gone through western stuff like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect, but even then it's not my genre of choice. The exception to this is I have played Chrono Trigger to completion on DS, twice. Sometimes the enemy encounters and RPG stuff get on my nerves, but otherwise, I'd call Chrono Trigger a solid 9/10 or 10/10 game. The gameplay is snappy, no random encounters, the plot is interesting, the music is great - it's fun to play.

So I finally got around to picking up a fan-patched cartridge of FFVI for GBA, because I knew it's one of the top recommended Final Fantasy games and came out at a similar time as Chrono Trigger. But I dunno, guys. This doesn't feel comparable. The opening was great, but right away I wasn't feeling the battle system - for the first few hours of the game most fights are a complete breeze, giving no incentive to need any other strategy. I'm realizing a large part of my appreciation of Chrono Trigger probably comes from the DS version's nice UI - attacks are separated into three columns by character on the touch screen with nice sizable buttons, vs. the extremely cramped random list of magic attacks filled with blank spaces. I've started playing with Relm, and it's pretty cool to be able to heal through the "Attack" command, but now I have to be extremely careful I'm not accidentally healing the enemy because the UI barely gives any indication of who's battle menu is currently open, while at the same time pushing me to attack quickly with the active time bars. I don't get it. Does the weird timing of attacks really help the game?

I haven't been experimenting with the different magical abilities because 80% of the time I use some characters weird ability, it misses - so it's just a waste of time. Posioning or blinding enemies or confusing enemies or whatever, it seems arbitrary when it's effective or not and most of the time it's not. Why bother with Gau's weird random list of monster moves, or Relm's "sketch" ability that goes unexplained and usually just misses, or remembering what the "123456789" is in Cyan's move list, or what Sabin's button combos are? It's just a mess of random battle options in a cramped ugly UI. And the status effects, let's hope I remember exactly what every colour code means. And when I want to heal mid-fight, which randomly named item is the cure for the unnamed status. I also have little idea how the Esper system even works to be honest, but it feels like anything more than straight damage dealing will involve following a heavily researched walkthrough and following some recipe to the letter.

Chrono Trigger doesn't have these problems - it's mostly a push & pull of busting out your powerful multi-character techniques balanced with well-timed healing, it's satisfying and straightforward. I feel like the active battle system makes more sense there?

Along with that sort of frustration, I'm not that impressed by the cinematics or plot? Like obviously this stuff is hamstringed by the tech of the day, but I was kind of expecting a lot more going by its reputation... some of the dramatic moments are undercut by the weird art mismatch, where characters are tiny and cartoony and their rival is some lavishly drawn portrait, ie. Sabin vs. his... friend? Or whatever? Kefka, vs. your party? Or the fight between Gestahl and Kefka that happens on a bland background while they both jitter around like puppets.

The game has this problem with ruining some dramatic beats like the opera scene, where suddenly you're fighting Ultros in a jokey fight? And then whisked away to the airship on a dime? Setzer joins your party after almost no real conflict, and then you're dumped on the world map I'm just left sitting here like "...what".

Even the music is kind of bizarre - solemn map music or dramatic scenes, suddenly jolted into excitable fights, with a goofy fanfare and then back to solemn or dramatics. The tone is all over the place.

Now I'm at what I think is the halfway point of the game, where Kefka destroys the world. And that was definitely some spectacle mixed in with awkward sprites dancing around, but again this game really has a problem with spoiling cool moments. Immediately following that, I'm dumped in Cid's house... and have to feed him fish or whatever? And given no further direction. He just keeps spewing the same lines over and over about how he's "not long for this world", and I've brought him fish like 20 times now. I've looked at walkthroughs and apparently I'm supposed to divine the fact that these fish are all subtly different and adjusting his invisible lifebar. Somehow I've kept him perfectly balanced and I guess I'll just be playing Final Fisher VI for the rest of my playthrough. Really nailing it with the dramatics here, game.

I dunno. My memory of Chrono Trigger might be a bit off in regards to the cinematics, I'm sure there's some cheesy tone stuff mixed in there like the Ozzy fights. Maybe it was more fresh because it was my "first real JRPG". But I feel like it conveyed a much stronger sense of a world under threat? When I stepped out into 2300 AD, or the World of Zeal, or saw Lavos in any scene, I knew this game meant business. Not sure I'm getting that from FFVI? It seems to get distracted too often and just isn't very good at dramatics due to its choice of spritework.

How wrong am I? Am I at least missing some dynamic of the battle system that makes it more... natural? An option I should've obviously turned on or makes the blank space in the Magic menus make sense?
 

timberger

Member
FFVI just doesn't hold up too well these days, whereas CT does. Don't write off every JRPG just yet because of one badly aged title.
 

kromeo

Member
I never understand comments about one game ruining a genre for people. i think you just don't like FFVI very much
 
Well, CT is like the easiest JRPG to get into, plus it's good and most importantly doesn't overstay it's welcome. VI is kind of a slog at times in comparison and indeed at times feels more restricted by the hardware.

I'll prescribe a dose of Persona 4 Golden for you to get back into it.
 

Stopdoor

Member
FFVI just doesn't hold up too well these days, whereas CT does. Don't write off every JRPG just yet because of one badly aged title.

Sure, but there's a lot of Final Fantasy games I thought might be interesting to play because of their reputation and it doesn't give me confidence they'd actually be fun to play now.

I never understand comments about one game ruining a genre for people. i think you just don't like FFVI very much

Yeah maybe, but it's kind of frustrating because I can see glimpses of cool moments and a fun battle system that's bogged down by things that Chrono Trigger (on DS) solves. It could be good with a not too heavy overhaul.
 
FF6 and Chrono. Yup, two classics. Think of it like this.

FF6 is a complex dark drama. It's essentially competing for best picture, not mainstream blockbuster appeal. It builds up to so something; the world falls apart
literally
and it rebuilt.
Emotional roller coaster.

Chrono Trigger is like a mainstream sci fi TV show which you can rewatch 10 times and still enjoy it. You can play it on your phone in 10 minutes bursts or sit for 3 hours and marathon it. It's lighthearted and far more casual friendly.

It's like having the revanant and cowboy bebop on your media shelf.
 

mstevens

Member
I played through FF6 for the first time recently (somehow missed it when I had a SNES as a kid) and didnt' really enjoy it, especially the 2nd half. I just assumed that it hasn't aged well, but I mostly chalk it up to personal preferences instead of thinking it is a bad game. I didn't like the level up system with the espers and having the party fragmented for much of the game.

I prefer Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, etc.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Probably a nostalgia thing for me but I played and beat FF 3/6 on an SNES a long time ago during the 16bit era and loved it. With that said, I could even play it again today by other means and somehow still have a good time because I still remember how much I enjoyed it when I was younger.

I played Chrono Trigger the first time when we already had Xboxes and PS2s in the market and while it was a great game, I thought FF 6 was the better JRPG. Maybe if this scenario was switched around and I experienced Chrono Trigger first, I would have had a different opinion?
 

Stopdoor

Member
FF6 and Chrono. Yup, two classics. Think of it like this.

FF6 is a complex dark drama. It's essentially competing for best picture, not mainstream blockbuster appeal. It builds up to so something; the world falls apart
literally
and it rebuilt.
Emotional roller coaster.

Chrono Trigger is like a mainstream sci fi TV show which you can rewatch 10 times and still enjoy it. You can play it on your phone in 10 minutes bursts or sit for 3 hours and marathon it. It's lighthearted and far more casual friendly.

It's like having the revanant and cowboy bebop on your media shelf.

I feel like it's pretty bad at being a dark drama though, considering the constant goofy scenes, battle music and fanfare, and weird puppet-like spritework.
 
Story/mood comparisons aside, Chrono Trigger is just a better game. You'll need to recalibrate your expectations if you want to enjoy other RPGs (at least, I had to). It's not just FF6 that compares unfavorably, it's every game since 1995 as well
 

TDLink

Member
I don't think FF6 has aged as well as Chrono Trigger. To me, there is still nothing else quite like CT, but a lot of what FF6 did was repeated in similar or superior ways in later entries in the franchise.

Don't get me wrong, I still think FF6 is a masterpiece, but I can understand why you're feeling the way you are. At the time it was top of the class though.

I am of the opinion that FF6 peaks during the split paths early in the game, and then after it all comes back together it never really hits those highs again. Especially once the World is ruined, of course that's cool and groundbreaking for the time...but it really kills my desire to keep playing on re-plays.
 

True Fire

Member
Ultimately, if you don't care about the characters then there's nothing we can do to help you. The characters are the glue that holds the game together.
 

Kikujiro

Member
I never loved Chrono Trigger that much, always found FFVI much more engaging and interesting. I would put Terranigma above CT too.
 

Aleh

Member
I played FFVI for the first time last year I think, and while I liked it overall, I also never understood the high praise it gets. I'd have to say even FFIV was more enjoyable at this point.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Sure, but there's a lot of Final Fantasy games I thought might be interesting to play because of their reputation and it doesn't give me confidence they'd actually be fun to play now.

That's because a handful of the most beloved FF games are indeed not much fun to play at all and are mostly held dear because of their characters, stories, music, etc instead. If you want to play genuinely fun FF games I suggest V, Tactics and X.

Incidentally I love both VI and CT for different reasons but don't think either is particularly fun to play, just passable.

It's been a while since I last played VI though so maybe I simply didn't get the combat system at the time, but I know CT is way too simple.

Final Fantasy V is leagues ahead of both those games

People laugh at this but depending of how much you care about gameplay this is evidently true lol.
 

True Fire

Member
FF6 is a complex dark drama. It's essentially competing for best picture, not mainstream blockbuster appeal. It builds up to so something; the world falls apart
literally
and it rebuilt.
Emotional roller coaster.

Chrono Trigger is like a mainstream sci fi TV show which you can rewatch 10 times and still enjoy it. You can play it on your phone in 10 minutes bursts or sit for 3 hours and marathon it. It's lighthearted and far more casual friendly.

It's like having the revanant and cowboy bebop on your media shelf.

VI isn't a complex dark drama. It's very straightforward. VI is about contrasting light and dark, literally and figuratively. It's very comparable to Star Wars (in fact, I highly suspect that its story was inspired by the OG trilogy).

It has goofy scenes, flawed but loveable characters, and a vibrant setting that doesn't take itself too seriously despite the darkness.
 
Probably. Have Fun. You could play Xenoblade because while it is most certainly not Chrono Trigger in pacing or length, it does capture a nice bit of the flavor of that game.

FF6 was a great game to me still because I love those moments of levity in between drama. But Chrono was definitely the tighter experience where everything mattered in a natural way that has seldom been replicated.
 

Kusagari

Member
I feel like it's pretty bad at being a dark drama though, considering the constant goofy scenes, battle music and fanfare, and weird puppet-like spritework.

That's how a lot of Japanese media is. Constant goofy moments in an underlying story that is dark and tense.

It's an acquired taste that you might not like. However, it's also something common in JRPG's and anime.
 

jb1234

Member
I think the game is brilliant but it's always had problems, especially the unbalanced battles. I always hoped they'd remake it like they did for IV and bump the difficulty up. Sabin and Edgar in particular break the system.

That said, if you play any other JRPG made around the same time, you'll see just far ahead it is of the competition (except CT, of course).
 

LKSmash

Member
Final Fantasy V is leagues ahead of both those games

7699fec0-936d-0132-4424-0ebc4eccb42f.gif
 

Stopdoor

Member
I don't think FF6 has aged as well as Chrono Trigger. To me, there is still nothing else quite like CT, but a lot of what FF6 did was repeated in similar or superior ways in later entries in the franchise.

Don't get me wrong, I still think FF6 is a masterpiece, but I can understand why you're feeling the way you are. At the time it was top of the class though.

I am of the opinion that FF6 peaks during the split paths early in the game, and then after it all comes back together it never really hits those highs again. Especially once the World is ruined, of course that's cool and groundbreaking for the time...but it really kills my desire to keep playing on re-plays.

That split part is actually where it lost me, I picked Sabin's path first and it was such a random journey - you visit Doma, but the whole poisoning scene just happens so quickly that it's hard to sink in, and then you go through the forest and I'm left wondering why we're doing any of this, until the way too rushed scene with Cyan's family. You wander around and find Gau and head back, and I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be feeling about it there.

Ultimately, if you don't care about the characters then there's nothing we can do to help you. The characters are the glue that holds the game together.

The characters are good, but they keep getting in goofy scenes or not saying much because of the large party size. Like Cyan, Edgar is irrelevant now. Celes keeps coming up but the dramatics of her indecision and relationship with Locke is just a bit too lost on the cramped unexpressive spritework.

Chrono Trigger keeps the party small and then fulfills them through a dedicated sidequest for each - I have doubts that sort of dedicated plot for each character will come up now due to the World of Ruin thing?
 
I thought both of them were really disappointing.

I expected to have my mind blown, but I was really bored after about ten hours
 

kromeo

Member
It's just a case of people wanting different things from their jrpgs. I personally don't find either the story or characters in Chrono Trigger remotely interesting, the fact it's short and has quick battles aren't huge sellers to me
 
FF6 is a complex dark drama. It's essentially competing for best picture, not mainstream blockbuster appeal. It builds up to so something; the world falls apart
literally
and it rebuilt.
Emotional roller coaster.

FFVI is not complex and dark.
Let's conveniently forget that the world falls apart literally in Chrono Trigger too. In fact, in Chrono Trigger it falls apart three times throughout history, unlike in FFVI.
If anything Chrono Trigger is the darker one.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Eh, it's just your tastes. Never thought Chrono Trigger's battle system was anything special beyond being just streamlined.

I like Chrono Trigger but I don't think it blows other RPGs away. Also, FFVI has some of my favorite story and character moments.

It's true that the battle system doesn't hold up as well though, especially having to do with random battles and the speed of the system itself.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
ff6 was a slow starter for me.

I think chrono is a bit better paced but they are both on the same level of quality overall

ff5 on the other hand lol
 

Ferr986

Member
I think V is underrated, but VI is still the better game. CT is up there with VI too.

Anything is better than VIII though.
 
Idk what to say OP. Played it a few years ago for the first time and thought it was a masterpiece. I'd personally put it along side Chrono Trigger in terms of quality and story-telling.

I love how many unique options they give you for combat by making each character play so differently. I also thought the goofy scenes were my favorite part yet it never felt like the serious overall tone was ever lost.

i think Chrono Trigger is a simpler game and benifited from this, but I admire all the crazy stuff FF6 tries.
 
No you're fine. FFVi is incredibly mediocre & generic. You have to remember in America all they had before it really was FF1 & FF4. So at the time to most Americans it seemed amazing when in fact it was just average for it's day.
 
Top Bottom