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[Stilton Disco]

It's fiction. If you want to make that fiction 100% realistic and even based on historical events, you should be free to, but if you want to make a game set in a universe where women are super human warriors and men are a bunch of wilting pansies, then that's fine too.

What ultimately matters is if it's good or not. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[Sander Cohen]

You can be 6'2" 220lbs of muscle (in fact I am) and still fight like a god damn pansy...being a lunkhead doesn't mean you have hand to hand combat training.

I'm not fighting anyone of any gender or weight class because I'm not trained in combat and would get my ass kicked within a minute.

Are you kidding me? Enemies in these games are highly trained, vicious murder machines but still, they’re no match for our heroines. I’m saying, there is no need to emphasize female presence in video games with their physical strength, there are many other roles that would look and feel more realistic.

 

[Kokoloko85]

When one of yall can beat Amanda Nunes or Cyborg....

James Bond mowing through a million trained soldiers without a scrap is even dumber in my mind. And thats coming from a James Bond fan.

Games and Movies are fantasies.... I dont take them that seriously unless they are fucking up with history and silly people think that is real history e.g 300, political ideas etc.

Obviously this doesnt mean it has to be totally ridiculous and a SJW’s paradise.

Yeah its silly to watch a woman hand fight a handul of guys and come out unscathed but is it really that important?

I mean its not gonna change the fact that untrained man —> stronger than untrained women. Trained man stronger than ——> trained woman.
But at times a trained woman....possibly will beat a untrained man depending on size and natural fighting ability.

There are more important things to fight for like actual transexual women taking over women sports.

 

[BabyfaceRe]

Strenght/power means you are far more athletic, far more fast, far more resistent, far more coordinated, etc...

It's an enourmous advantadge in basically almost every field of an adventure game. Yes, in shooting while moving too.

The harsh truth is: women simply can't compete with men in any physical activity. There's just too much of a difference.

Nah this is incorrect, speed can relate to power (though even then its not a 1 to 1 relation) yes but resistance and coordination? No sir.

Also not true, your depiction seem extremely broad. As someone who has watched MMA for over 20 years I can promise that women are easily as resilient and coordinated as men, and for thier weight class some even have considerably more powerful(look up Amanda Nunes).

You're making broad statements as if they were absolute truths when they are not. I'm not going on a "women are physically equal to men" rant, I believe the vast majority of sports shold not be cross gender and I don't believe in transgender athletes crossing gender lines either. I also don't agree with your factually wrong rhetoric that seems to only exist to belittle women.

 

[TheContact]

The most competitive women in their respective sports have been utterly destroyed by the worst men in their respective sports. That woman would be utterly destroyed by the worst fighters of the men division.

People in this times seem to really underestimate the incredible amount of sheer strength, athleticism and resistance difference between women and men.

Yeah and I said all things being equal, she would likely lose to an equally-trained and conditioned male in some kind of 1v1 hand-to-hand combat scenario. Not all combat is like this, in fact, combat like this is very rare in modern wars. But not everything in life is equal. You can have a badass soldier woman killing guys that are technically stronger than her but lack proper technique, and when guns are involved, physical fitness is put on the back burner a little bit.

 

[Sander Cohen]

Gender is irrelevant. Experience, training, equipment...these are the things that make for an effective combatant.



...she's probably like, 200% better in fight than the majority of the folks on this forum. Conservatively.

That’s not how Lara, Ellie, Aloy or pretty much any other heroine looks like (I guess Abby fits there but I haven’t played the game).

 

[Kdad]

Are you kidding me? Enemies in these games are highly trained, vicious murder machines but still, they’re no match for our heroines. I’m saying, there is no need to emphasize female presence in video games with their physical strength, there are many other roles that would look and feel more realistic.

Training is training...if our hero has better trading and experience it easily can overwhelm brute strength or size. And again...ffs...it's FICTIONAL ENTERTAINMENT...male protagonists are more often than not smaller than thier enemies too.

 

[BabyfaceRe]

When one of yall can beat Amanda Nunes or Cyborg....

I would pay to see OP put his natural gifts to work in an octagon with Nunes.

 

[Pejo]

In a modern setting, I don't really mind. It's goofy, but meh. Power fantasy and all.

In historical settings, it really bothers me. It's happening a lot in tv/film too. Women charging on a battlefield. It's stupid and it takes me out of the moment. It did not happen. Period.

Yep, this is my view as well. If they're going for "muh historical accuracy" or whatever, and they add it in, it seems a bit off. The Battlefield V stuff rubbed me the wrong way.

That said, it's just video games and I don't generally care at all if a woman is depicted as tough or a badass or whatever. It can even be pretty effective or cool. I do wish they'd have better characterization other than "male character but woman" though. Shanoa from Castlevania:OoE is one of my favorite Castlevania protags for instance.

 

[Demon2blades]

That op lol you're playing in fantasy world's with fantasy characters with health regen /spells / freaking lasers etc.... And you want realism because the characters female ? That's don't make sense and maybe you should have thought this through .

 

[BabyfaceRe]

Males are more powerful no argument that's why there's male and female sports leagues the gap is MASSIVE, teenager boys are stronger than adult females.

Very broad and very general. Yes generally speaking that's true but don't pretend like it's an absolute. I know several 30 year old men who would get absolutely destroyed in the gym by several 20-30 year old women I know. And I mean in anything, max weight, muscle fatigue, general stamina.

 

[GRIEVEZ]

Tomb Raider, TLOU, Horizon are just a few examples of games (I know there are more but these stuck to me) I played this gen where you’re made to believe that physically significantly weaker sex can overpower hordes of men like they are joke. I don’t mind having female leads but it does create huge ludonarrative dissonance in my head.

So I’m playing modern Tomb Raider for the first time since it‘s PS Plus monthly game and notion that she can just strangle big muscle men with her bow like it’s nothing is absurd. It doesn’t work. I know people will mention how it’s also not realistic that Nathan Drake can gun down hundreds of people in his games but I think about it this way: if he can win in a single gunfight against 1 man it’s realistic in people’s minds that he can win in multiple ones.
Now, chances of any female winning in a single fight against physically larger and stronger men in real life is very small. Maybe through some trick or cleverness but not likely. Yet you can see what Ellie does or Lara or Alloy or anyone else.

I’m not emphasizing skill with guns because, obviously, females can be almost just as good there (although also not likely) or in cases where your enemies are zombies like in Resident Evil or similar games.

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

Come on dude, its a game...

Not only that but strength isnt just having bigger muscles lol... Technique and your Central Nerve System both play a big part in the "strength" equation.

There's plenty of evidence where more muscle, doesnt equate to winning fights.

Anyways this thread reeks of insecurity. Just saying it how I see it.

 

[Kdad]

When are we going to stop pretending that people can recover from multiple gun wounds just by hiding away from gun fire for 5 seconds.

Its just a game.

50 Cent enters the chat

 

[John Day]

Yeah.... never cared about this, with the plethora of gameplay mechanics that make you invincible..

I mean, if that takes you off the atmosphere of the game and health regen doesn’t, then i don’t know.

 

[PropellerEar]

Not bothered by it, its fiction after all.

 

[Sander Cohen]

Yeah.... never cared about this, with the plethora of gameplay mechanics that make you invincible..

I mean, if that takes you off the atmosphere of the game and health regen doesn’t, then i don’t know.

I’m playing with health regen off in TR, just saying.

 

[Zog]

When we stop pretending that a group of teenagers (and younger) can pick up a sword for the first time and go save the world from evil with the power of friendship.

I like JRPG's, my point is that games aren't real life. IMO the more realistic we try to make games (characters have to eat and take bathroom breaks) the less fun they become.

 

[CatLady]

I generally don't have any issue with it because the characters we play already do inhuman things no matter what sex they are. If Nathan Drake can climb ropes and rocks for 30 minutes straight before running 4 miles and then getting into a fight with 12 armed guards, then I can buy into a supernaturally strong woman as well.

I totally agree with this. The argument in the OP is as dumb as a lot of the garbage SJWs come up with. I remember there was a big uproar about Nadine being unrealistic in UC 4 but hey, Nate taking on and beating up 20 guys - totally realistic right?

It comes across to me that people making this argument don't like games with a female protagonist and use this to justify it. And that's okay, just don't play them but don't whine about stupid shit, you just look foolish.

I hate to see people that are against Identity politics/SJW tropes fall into arguments that are just as dumb in the opposite direction.

 

[kingbean]

It's fantasy, who cares how real it is. People can be as badass as they need to be if it makes the game fun.

Chill out.

 

[Atrus]

Games are mostly based on fantasy physics and reality.

The characters power-scaling tends to be unrealistic or often unique to the protagonist.

Even in a game like Ace Combat where the gender of a character has no basis in the outcome, the player character is always explained to be some unique savant compared to everyone else.

This of course causes issues in games that try to be realistic but the complaints tend to be dumb whether the character is male or female.

The criticism that Nathan Drake was an unrealistic mass murderer was one of the dumbest claims to be made by some of the dumbest people alive and should never have been taken seriously.

Similarly, I don’t want a game where I play some overweight dude that needs to ‘rest a bit’ after prolonged physical activity or a woman who gets her ass beat by teenage boys.

You can keep those characters to point and clicks or choose your own adventure games.

 

[Sub_Level]

1997. 130 pound woman kills at least 50 men with ease.

TLOU2 comes out and its suddenly a problem. Lol.

 

[INC]

Sounds like something a beta would say tbh

 

[RJMacready73]

Have you watched any professional female mma or general womens athletics?? Hell have you seen Youtube clips of women going at each other?? Believe you me, I'm a 6footer, fairly well built and id stand the fuck down when faced with a determined female looking to kick ass...

Also it's a fucking game you muppet

 

[gypsygib]

It's a videogame, nothing about the character's combat effectiveness is realistic be it male or female, or elf, animal, robot, demon, hedgehog, etc. as the is often the case...again, because it's a videogame based in fantasy and nothing about the gameplay could happen in reality. Specifically to combat effectiveness, there are plenty of UFC women and trained combatants that could choke out most of the men on this forum.


And besides, I often rather look at an attractive female character running around than some guy.

 

[BDubsLegend]

People on this site are a joke. Loool! WTF is this topic? There is not even anything to discuss. It's literally a videogame. There is no defending this kind of thinking. Triggered by a woman existing.

 

[Farawayfromhell]

Is this a smart way to trigger all forum women? Sly as a fox...

 

[Ceallach]

Omg, fuck Off OP. I am literally a fucking Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor and Crew Serve Weapons Instructor.

Come down range with me and my girls on the FETs, let me see how you do.

 

[Zathalus]

So your issue is with Aloy beating men, but not the fact that she can best a futuristic death machine with a bow and arrow?

 

[Hunnybun]

This is a bit of a tangent but what really annoys me in games like Uncharted is why they don't have one shot kills, it'd be so much more satisfying. So instead of saying Mate can kill someone in say 4 shots but dies in 10 shots, why not have him kill someone in 1 and die in 3?

 

[Amiga]

Female main characters are not the issue , It's the obvious "look at me" that snaps gamers out of the experience. When creators deliberately say they are doing this for an "inclusivity" goal they are implying the "role play" will have elements that are not integral to the experience. therefore undermining their own work.

in a game like HorizonZD I didn't feel anything out of place. Aloy felt believably motivated by her circumstances and world and personal resolve.

 

[llien]

Now apply thr same argument to female armor, chuckle.

Women seem to have an edge in shooting.

 

[Vawn]

OP, I get what you're saying, but you're overthinking it. Take any video game and you can find 100 things more unbelievable than women being as strong as men.

We've just been so obsessed with the insanity that is SJWs, that we're seeing it when it's not there.

No one is creating a thread, "When are we going to stop pretending a single person can hold 99 bundles of firewood, 4 beds, hundreds of other items and still fight effectively"?

Games like FFXIV can have 2 feet tall Monk fighters who can beat the crap out of 600 pound White Mages. Yes, it's absurd, but it's fine because an enjoyable game is more important than being realistic.

There have been badass, unrealistic female video game heroes since the NES. It really isn't a social statement 99% of the time.

 

[soulbait]

Tomb Raider, TLOU, Horizon are just a few examples of games (I know there are more but these stuck to me) I played this gen where you’re made to believe that physically significantly weaker sex can overpower hordes of men like they are joke. I don’t mind having female leads but it does create huge ludonarrative dissonance in my head.

So I’m playing modern Tomb Raider for the first time since it‘s PS Plus monthly game and notion that she can just strangle big muscle men with her bow like it’s nothing is absurd. It doesn’t work. I know people will mention how it’s also not realistic that Nathan Drake can gun down hundreds of people in his games but I think about it this way: if he can win in a single gunfight against 1 man it’s realistic in people’s minds that he can win in multiple ones.
Now, chances of any female winning in a single fight against physically larger and stronger men in real life is very small. Maybe through some trick or cleverness but not likely. Yet you can see what Ellie does or Lara or Alloy or anyone else.

I’m not emphasizing skill with guns because, obviously, females can be almost just as good there (although also not likely) or in cases where your enemies are zombies like in Resident Evil or similar games.

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

You are complaining about a woman being able to beat up men in a fictional world. A fictional world where in Rise of the Tomb Raider she has to fight off the "Deathless", a supernatural enemy. She also finds "tombs" filled with puzzles that do not exist in the real world. Have regenerating health and more. But yet you choose to complain about a fictional female, in a fictional world, being able to defeat fictional men in a video game. You don't see the issue with this?

 

[Lanrutcon]

That’s not how Lara, Ellie, Aloy or pretty much any other heroine looks like (I guess Abby fits there but I haven’t played the game).

And Scout Space Marines don't wear power armor yet wield weapons that would snap their arms like twigs.

Fiiiiiction, motherfucker.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

The fact you are this bothered that women in videogames are "effective in combat" is bizarre. Has the disdain for women here gotten this bad?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

yeah sorry OP im not gonna be on your side here.

Lara Croft killing people from the shadows isn't really blowing my mind as some impossible feat lol.

im all down for critiquing the gender swapping of traditional characters but this type of complaining seems silly.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Just so I understand, in your head a dude who hits a body count in the hundreds is copacetic but a woman choking a jobber is just too much?

 

[Jubenhimer]

I guess it depends on the context. If it's a fantasy game, it's easier to suspend your disbelief there since you can just assume the main character has superpowers or uses high tech equipment. It only becomes a problem when female strength is used as a blatant political tool, and no justifiable reason is given as to why your female protagonist can suddenly punch things twice her size, invent things on the fly, and solve conflicts with little resistance, other than to "own the patriarchy".

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I know people will mention how it’s also not realistic that Nathan Drake can gun down hundreds of people in his games but I think about it this way: if he can win in a single gunfight against 1 man it’s realistic in people’s minds that he can win in multiple ones.

What? In which people's minds? Immature ones? 1 ≠ Many. There's nothing realistic about one guy gunning down hordes of armed men. It's just a ridiculous power fantasy. Always was, always will be.

It doesn't matter if it's Nathan Drake, Lara Croft or a Cat with a Gun duct-taped to his side - everyone of these characters can have the same "abilities" and have the exact same value in terms of "realism".

"Imaginative idealization" is what action movie or video game characters are, it doesn't matter what form they take.

 

[Zannegan]

About the same time movies stop pretending little guys can take on big guys with the power of heart. *shrug*

To be fair to your core argument, I don't think the "but it's a fantasy" rebuttal really addresses your point unless it's a feature of that fantasy world that men and women are equally strong. Ideally, movies, games, and books should be logical and consistent according to the rules set up in their universes. At the same time, if you're going to shrug off other inconsistencies that break the rules of that world, why make unrealistically strong ladies your sticking point? It's like thinking a pubescent Robin is fine as a sidekick for Batman, but Batgirl is a bridge too far. And if James McAvoy can play a tough guy action hero, then anyone can.

The same goes for games. The number of people you kill in the average action game would be both horrifying and laughably unrealistic taken at face value. If a twig like Ezio can overpower and murder not just one hulking brute but hundreds over the course of a game, then why not Lara Croft (especially badass OG Lara)?

If you're going to go after girls for being unrealistically tough in games, your next target had better be all the weedy models with perfect hair running around with swords the size of airplane wings (looking at you, Cloud and Dante) or punching out dudes with more training who are also several weight classes above them (take that Nathan Drake and all AC protagonists). Either be consistent in how you call bullshit, or just let it go.

 

[cormack12]

No one is creating a thread, "When are we going to stop pretending a single person can hold 99 bundles of firewood, 4 beds, hundreds of other items and still fight effectively"?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

It's all fun and games until a dev/publisher calls his bullshit game "historically accurate" or something like that. I couldn't care less for all other instances. Games are interactive phantasies, and they are for everyone. I'd love to see a badass hero in a wheelchair. Itagaki should be working on that.

 

[Fbh]

People on this site are a joke. Loool! WTF is this topic? There is not even anything to discuss. It's literally a videogame. There is no defending this kind of thinking. Triggered by a woman existing.

Posts in a thread with 70+ replies mostly disagreeing with OP
"PeOpLe On ThIs SiTe ArE a JoKe"

 

[Genx3]

Games are fantasy, fiction, fake, etc.

No problem with having females as the main protagonist choke out some men. Though it would add a nice detail if she used her legs some how to get the proper leverage.

 

[Soulja]

50 Cent enters the chat

And then leaves the chat after realising he will bleed out and die unless he goes to the hospital.

 

[Thugnificient]

How is this shit nearly 100 replies? God gamers are dumb.

 

[CatLady]

Female main characters are not the issue , It's the obvious "look at me" that snaps gamers out of the experience. When creators deliberately say they are doing this for an "inclusivity" goal they are implying the "role play" will have elements that are not integral to the experience. therefore undermining their own work.

in a game like HorizonZD I didn't feel anything out of place. Aloy felt believably motivated by her circumstances and world and personal resolve.

Now for me THAT is a very legitimate argument. Swapping Ellie for Joel as the main protagonist pissed me off. Not because she is a women, or Ellie killing tons of people was any more unbelievable than Joel doing it. It was because I like Joel much better and it also felt like the primary reason for doing it was to push an SJW agenda.

Aloy, OTOH, I really liked as a character, I didn't feel there was any agenda in her as the lead character and I had no problem with her unrealistically taking down tons of totally unrealistic mecha-dinos in a fantasy future world.

 

[LazyParrot]

Yeah it can look very unrealistic in some games, especially when it comes to climbing and melee combat where physical strength is very important.

Climbing is actually one of very few sports where the performance gap between men and women is extremely small, or, in some cases, non-existent. In younger age groups girls even tend to outperform boys. This is because what really matters for climbing isn't strength alone, but your strength in relation to your weight along with flexibility, and teenage girls can't be beat in those categories.

 

[Stuart360]

I dont have a problem with female main characters, in fact the Tomb Raider reboot, and Rise, are 2 of my fave games from recent yers (Sahdow sucks balls though).
What i DO have a problem with is shit like black female Nazis in COD, or the bullshit with bionic female WW2 soldiers in Battlefield, and shit like that.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Maybe we should get the realism of women not being so combat-competent, if we have to endure the "realism" of them too often having zero sex appeal?
I'll happily embrace fantasy, as long as the girl looks good.