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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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sircaw

Banned
Jokes aside, I just like to armchair the business strategies and I'm a bit mystified by this line of marketing. The only thing I can figure is that they are going to switch gears from the power marketing to value marketing, in which case maybe they really don't care about XSX sales if they think XSS is going to be their bread and butter.

If Spencer breaks out Melania's jacket, I'm not sure what to think then. LOL

I am getting a sense of collateral damage when I think about Microsofts strategy. They are willing to sacrifice everything and everyone in there way to get to what their perceived end goal is.

Like I said in another post, I think their strategy is to basically engulf everything, like some sort of giant organism, the blob lol.

I think they will succeed in their attempt, but the cost will be huge.

A cheaper product for everyone in terms of game pass, but at the cost of great quality.

Sony will eventually have to act, to counter it, just hope they don't lose what makes them so special.
 
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geordiemp

Member
Jokes aside, I just like to armchair the business strategies and I'm a bit mystified by this line of marketing. The only thing I can figure is that they are going to switch gears from the power marketing to value marketing, in which case maybe they really don't care about XSX sales if they think XSS is going to be their bread and butter.

If Spencer breaks out Melania's jacket, I'm not sure what to think then. LOL

MS thought they had a big power advantage on paper at reveal, then they saw ps5 games native 4K with ray tracing, Miles morales 4k60......

MS cant show any power differential otherwise we would have had it in our face for sure, or not yet anyway. MS certainly have toned down the power narrative lol

Plan B
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
MS thought they had a big power advantage on paper at reveal, then they saw ps5 games native 4K with ray tracing, Miles morales 4k60......

MS cant show any power differential otherwise we would have had it in our face for sure, or not yet anyway. MS certainly have toned down the power narrative lol

Plan B

That's possible. Though there is always that chance that the XSX was always the halo product, with the cheaper and easier to produce XSS being the real end-game. It's a bit of a Nintendo approach, don't worry about having the best hardware and try to stick a decent price in comparison to the competition. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

The XSX would feature in the commercials and the h2hs, but the XSS would be the unit that people actually buy. 🤷‍♂️
 

Nickolaidas

Member
MS thought they had a big power advantage on paper at reveal, then they saw ps5 games native 4K with ray tracing, Miles morales 4k60......

MS cant show any power differential otherwise we would have had it in our face for sure, or not yet anyway. MS certainly have toned down the power narrative lol

Plan B
... Miles Morales wasn't shown at 60 fps ...
 

geordiemp

Member
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sircaw

Banned
MS thought they had a big power advantage on paper at reveal, then they saw ps5 games native 4K with ray tracing, Miles morales 4k60......

MS cant show any power differential otherwise we would have had it in our face for sure, or not yet anyway. MS certainly have toned down the power narrative lol

Plan B

Let's be honest here, the difference could be 20 tflops and it would not matter, when little Johnny and his mum go down to their local Tescos and see Spiderman running, there is not a lot that can beat that wow factor.

All respect to my flight simulator friends, but if its a comparison of that vs spiderman, there is only going to be one winner there.

what is being shown on the ps5 looks brilliant, it does not need any more power, just loving gaming designers to make the most use of it.
 
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Yeah totally agree. The hardware is a means to an end.

As it happens MS don’t have any 1st party content and while Sony has more it’s not exactly mind blowing. Then there’s the third party exclusives propping up these launches - they’re not setting a high standard either.

I really had hoped Sony would confirm something extra for launch or launch window. GT7 would’ve been huge and they showed more gameplay from that than anything else back in June.

But as each week passes without those confirmations I get less and less convinced that Sony is going to show any more than it has so far.

What would be very bad news is if SM:MM is also delayed...
A lack of launch window content is not a big issue either for both. The issue is in maintaining the content during the lifespan of this cycle.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Let's be honest here, the difference could be 20 tflops and it would not matter, when little Johnny and his mum go down to their local Tescos and see Spiderman running, there is not a lot that can beat that wow factor.

All respect to my flight simulator friends, but if its a comparison of that vs spiderman, there is only going to be one winner there.

what is being shown on the ps5 looks brilliant, it does not need any more power, just loving gaming designers to make the most use of it.

I do love the Spiderman game. The best of this genre I've ever played. The core gameplay is just a basic beat'em up, but they really did an amazing job giving the player the illusion of that super hero freedom of movement.
 

Dibils2k

Member
Miles was shown in graphics mode at 4k30 with ray tracing, then I had a comma. should of added announced a performance mode 4k60.


Point still stands, ps5 punching well above a 10 TF machine that you would expect.
i mean thats a ps4 game running at 60fps, nothing special

if you are expecting ray tracing (along with other visual improvements) in the 60fps mode, then you need to come back to reality
 

sircaw

Banned
I do love the Spiderman game. The best of this genre I've ever played. The core gameplay is just a basic beat'em up, but they really did an amazing job giving the player the illusion of that super hero freedom of movement.

And the good news, at least for me, is i am waiting for ps5 to play it.
I loved the batman games, huge fan of them, how would you personally rank spiderman vs them.

Which is better do you think?
 

geordiemp

Member
i mean thats a ps4 game running at 60fps, nothing special

if you are expecting ray tracing (along with other visual improvements) in the 60fps mode, then you need to come back to reality

Oh there will be no meaningfull ray tracing at 4k60 lol and look nice with effects and stuff, that would require a monster that does not exist yet, maybe the next batch of highest end PC cards will have a go.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
And the good news, at least for me, is i am waiting for ps5 to play it.
I loved the batman games, huge fan of them, how would you personally rank spiderman vs them.

Which is better do you think?

Spiderman is better. Though I admit I have not played through the entire Arkham series, the first couple were very good also, but more linear/on rails. The ability to pick and choose what you want to do in Spiderman is part of what makes it special, you have the freedom to do that side quest or bust up a petty crime, or move to the next story point.
 

geordiemp

Member
And the good news, at least for me, is i am waiting for ps5 to play it.
I loved the batman games, huge fan of them, how would you personally rank spiderman vs them.

Which is better do you think?

So am I waiting, had spiderman for a few months now in my backlog, I keep staring at it....Just finished Jedi fallen order, I enjoyed that immensely.

ps5 Spidey bros.
 
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Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
PS3 outsold 360 globally from day one.

Spencer has no vision, he failed for 7 years and continues. Time for a change.

PS will continue to outsell XBOX globally because most of the world favor PS. That’s pretty well established and not my point.

My point is everything I listed after that.

What vision would you use to turn things around

Most people, like me say the same things. They need to have the games. Currently, if you believe him, the games are in the pipe a few years away. If you believe him, the hardware is here now. While the games should have been here now, regardless of why they aren’t, what else would be needed?

To me, that’s what Sony has. A strong machine and games. That’s all I care about.
 
after PS3 launch, there won't be any consoles that cost more than 499$ and it's not like Xbox One or One X were a hit at that price. the reason of their silence is considering a lower price point.
I want the cheap price but 499 is not a rule of thumb. PS3 had more issues than price and that console still sold 88 million.
 

sircaw

Banned
Spiderman is better. Though I admit I have not played through the entire Arkham series, the first couple were very good also, but more linear/on rails. The ability to pick and choose what you want to do in Spiderman is part of what makes it special, you have the freedom to do that side quest or bust up a petty crime, or move to the next story point.

I wish that insomniac could make a superman game or a wonder woman game.

so many great ips that never get games.

I mean Indiana Jones, imagine how cool that would be, what about a blade runner game. Sigh, why are there not games with those characters or worlds?

they would sell millions.
What about a hulk game, GIVE GIVE GIVE.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
Oh there will be no meaningfull ray tracing at 4k60 lol and look nice with effects and stuff, that would require a monster that does not exist yet, maybe the next batch of highest end PC cards will have a go.

PC. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I think Avengers is going to be the new Marvel standard game. It looks more complex of a game and has many more elements in it. Can't wait till Sept 4th.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
A great X-Men game would be at the top of my list, but Superman would be great also. A lot of these games have been made in the past, just like Spiderman, but not with the quality that Insomniac created with the latest Spiderman. I would love to see what they would do with the varied powers of the popular X-Men characters, some can fly, some super strong/fast, some more cerebral, etc.
 

sircaw

Banned
So am I waiting, had spiderman for a few months now in my backlog, I keep staring at it....Just finished Jedi fallen order, I enjoyed that immensely.

ps5 Spidey bros.

spiderman, days gone, resident evil games, assassins creed, the last two games, Sekiero, monster hunter world, Borderlands 3, Nier Atuomata,

Tbh i don't need any exclusives lol, i have so much quality to play
 

FeiRR

Banned
I wish that insomniac could make a superman game or a wonder woman game.

so many great ips that never get games.

I mean Indiana Jones, imagine how cool that would be, what about a blade runner game. Sigh, why are there not games with those characters or worlds?

they would sell millions.
What about a hulk game, GIVE GIVE GIVE.
HOLD YOUR SEAHORSES! There were many Indiana Jones games. But I think that character is only remembered well by old farts like us and won't return. Probably why Lara Croft was created.

As for Batman vs Spiderman, I choose Batman. You can't go wrong with Batman! Yep, I'm biased. Also, the combat system in Spiderman didn't click with me for some reason.
 
Indeed. MS have got 14 studios plus a backlog of content not on PS .... they’ll put a decent showing on it.
Sony's PS4 catalog alone is far bigger than the entire xbox catalog since 2001. I remember many people who jumped from xbox to ps4 spent alot of time playing ps3 remasters. They actually enjoyed ps4 more than PS fans because of the quality of ps3 exclusive remasters.
 

sircaw

Banned
A great X-Men game would be at the top of my list, but Superman would be great also. A lot of these games have been made in the past, just like Spiderman, but not with the quality that Insomniac created with the latest Spiderman. I would love to see what they would do with the varied powers of the popular X-Men characters, some can fly, some super strong/fast, some more cerebral, etc.

Imagine they made a Jubilee character game, how much of a downer would that be lol.

Just give me Gambit, and the old miss marvel, not this fucking new film crap.

I would love to play some of the villains, Mister Sinister, apocalypse.

Or a return to the original hellfire club. God dammit. Give real xman game.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
HOLD YOUR SEAHORSES! There were many Indiana Jones games. But I think that character is only remembered well by old farts like us and won't return. Probably why Lara Croft was created.

As for Batman vs Spiderman, I choose Batman. You can't go wrong with Batman! Yep, I'm biased. Also, the combat system in Spiderman didn't click with me for some reason.
Fate of Atlantis boy, checking in!
 

sircaw

Banned
HOLD YOUR SEAHORSES! There were many Indiana Jones games. But I think that character is only remembered well by old farts like us and won't return. Probably why Lara Croft was created.

As for Batman vs Spiderman, I choose Batman. You can't go wrong with Batman! Yep, I'm biased. Also, the combat system in Spiderman didn't click with me for some reason.

I really like the gadgets in batman, this last game i played was great, some tricky bits with the car.

One thing I hated though was trying to catch firefly, my reactions at this age are bad. Could not do it, sigh.

As for indy i remember playing one at my friends house, I think it was on a Megadrive perhaps, it had Giraffe heads sticking out of a train, trying to hit you, lions gorillas that kinda stuff. It was a very long time ago lol
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Imagine they made a Jubilee character game, how much of a downer would that be lol.

Just give me Gambit, and the old miss marvel, not this fucking new film crap.

I would love to play some of the villains, Mister Sinister, apocalypse.

Or a return to the original hellfire club. God dammit. Give real xman game.


X-men TAS is an old favorite, but I'll concede that Jubilee was kind of a wasted character. Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Gambit, Beast, Prof-X, those are the real X-men to me, and there are a lot of great villians too. Plus, the source material has a deeper more nuanced morality to it, perfect for the SJWs.

I'll pay ($20 once it's on sale), somebody make this happen. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

FeiRR

Banned
I really like the gadgets in batman, this last game i played was great, some tricky bits with the car.

One thing I hated though was trying to catch firefly, my reactions at this age are bad. Could not do it, sigh.

As for indy i remember playing one at my friends house, I think it was on a Megadrive perhaps, it had Giraffe heads sticking out of a train, trying to hit you, lions gorillas that kinda stuff. It was a very long time ago lol
I mainly meant the great adventure games from Lucasarts. But there were some arcade IJ games, too.

SBl3ego.jpg
 

sircaw

Banned
I mainly meant the great adventure games from Lucasarts. But there were some arcade IJ games, too.

SBl3ego.jpg

first-ever games i was introduced to was at a friend on his Atari st i think it was called, we played dungeon Master back then for days lol.

I loved that game so much, but this Indy looks amazing.
 

The Unforeseen

Neo Member
Could this $600 talk be an intentional false leak to get people pleased with $500, as $400 was still the dream of many and $500/$550 was kinda the upper bounds of what was talked about. Get $600 doing the rounds and suddenly everyone is chuffed with $500 and rushes out to buy the thing if they had any kinda inkling to do so. At least that would be the idea.
 
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sircaw

Banned
X-men TAS is an old favorite, but I'll concede that Jubilee was kind of a wasted character. Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Gambit, Beast, Prof-X, those are the real X-men to me, and there are a lot of great villians too. Plus, the source material has a deeper more nuanced morality to it, perfect for the SJWs.

I'll pay ($20 once it's on sale), somebody make this happen. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I fell in love with Xmen because of the old cartoons, a long time ago. They were wonderful.

Rogue, Gambit, my absolute favorites, i think it was that love affair thing. Cant touch, better not touch.

Also, Carol Danvers and the ever-gorgeous Emma Frost. I dreamed about her for days, what a babe.
 
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FeiRR

Banned
first-ever games i was introduced to was at a friend on his Atari st i think it was called, we played dungeon Master back then for days lol.

I loved that game so much, but this Indy looks amazing.
Atari ST was a piece of junk :D But my first game was on a machine way simpler than that. I think it was 1985 and I think it was this game, but I'm not certain. It might have been something similar.

The IJ game is Fate of Atlantis. You can play it on a phone or tablet with ScummVM.

That and Nioh two will be on my target, mind you, i might just do the whole dark souls series and bloodborne again.

There is nothing quite like a night in with Dark souls, when your 50 years old.
Hah, so then it's you!
 
i mean thats a ps4 game running at 60fps, nothing special

if you are expecting ray tracing (along with other visual improvements) in the 60fps mode, then you need to come back to reality

Doesn't it have hardware in the GPU that takes care of Ray tracing? So in short they should still be able to do ray tracing with the dedicated hardware that it has.

Unless im misunderstanding something here?
 

sircaw

Banned
Atari ST was a piece of junk :D But my first game was on a machine way simpler than that. I think it was 1985 and I think it was this game, but I'm not certain. It might have been something similar.

The IJ game is Fate of Atlantis. You can play it on a phone or tablet with ScummVM.


Hah, so then it's you!

I am bad, but not that bad lol.

I did platinum bloodborne, so something is still working ok at my old age.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
I understand the patent meaning, what i wanted to discuss was the benefits but got no takers. My take was this could help memory access for ray tracing and Fp16 if on ps5...

I am more hardware background....Whats your take ?

This patent is about compressing vertex data into a format and decompressing it at the pixel shader stage so that the pixel shaders can know exactly what interpolated pixel within the triangle they are at. Is this what you are talking about?
 
PS will continue to outsell XBOX globally because most of the world favor PS. That’s pretty well established and not my point.

My point is everything I listed after that.

What vision would you use to turn things around

Most people, like me say the same things. They need to have the games. Currently, if you believe him, the games are in the pipe a few years away. If you believe him, the hardware is here now. While the games should have been here now, regardless of why they aren’t, what else would be needed?

To me, that’s what Sony has. A strong machine and games. That’s all I care about.

On Spencer:

Hardware is absolutely nothing without quality software to back it up. There have been numerous consoles in the annals of history that had power, but nothing in software support. Launches are traditionally weak, but Microsoft has taken a critical hit here.

Likewise, it doesn't behoove you to have the most powerful hardware on the market and thus far have nothing shown that truly utilizes that strength. When your flagship franchise not only fails to do so, but was in such disarray it's now delayed, 'tis worse.

When you've chosen to make it where games must be made across generations(and even a lower powered Lockhart) you are *actively* stifling developmental efforts for them to achieve visions hitherto impossible on current console hardware. They may not like that business trend(and rumblings suggest they don't).

When you've chosen to make Game Pass a forefront of your marketing, as good as it sounds and as good as it may become, in the short term you are again *actively* hurting upfront revenue for publishers and developers in an economy where every dollar counts with expensive development costs.

Again, rumblings say this may be true also, which is why Sony is willing to write numbers on a check.

You *must* choose a path and ensure it is the right one. You can't preach power, then not use it. You can't preach top software, then fail to show it. You can't preach a streaming service like Gamepass, but only offer a modicum of decent titles. Make it count for something.

You can't ignore competition, because they don't hold the same view as you, and will do everything in their power to capitalize on mixes signals to sway a lot in their favor very quickly.

It already happened in 2013 with Kinect, Always Online and Used game policies

There are numerous talented folks in Microsoft's repertoire, but they aren't being utilized to their fullest.

They need to step it up and come with a clearer message.
 

geordiemp

Member
This patent is about compressing vertex data into a format and decompressing it at the pixel shader stage so that the pixel shaders can know exactly what interpolated pixel within the triangle they are at. Is this what you are talking about?

Yes it is. Patent also meantions combining FP16, and was wondering the actual case use if it is in ps5 silicon, such as Ray Tracing memory access etc / effective bandwidth etc

The understanding of the relative benefits is the difficult part to speculate as it is not covered in the patent.

The patent just says what it does, not the relative benefit use..
 
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