• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

I don’t get the ray tracing thing

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Sure, if you are saying Performance > everything then sure.
But if you care about art design or gameplay outside of FPS then you do kinda care about what raytracing brings.
For the type of games I like which mostly AA Japanese games then no I honestly couldn't care less for ray tracing.

I would say ray tracing mostly gonna be used by AAA western developers which always about having realistic graphics.

I'm sorry stuff like this just doesn't excites me, not even in the slightest. It bores the crap out of me.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
In games like Control and Metro (and Minecraft and Quake I guess), it's huge. But a lot of games have much less robust implementations where they're only using it in a really limited way. Battlefield for example.

But it's a huge difference for things like reflections and global illumination. I always notice it. SSR Is good for like, puddles and things on the ground, but useless in other situations and the alternatives are distractingly limited (goofy Cubemaps in the windows of Spider-Man for example).

It's true that we're getting better at faking the kinds of things RT does. Nanites and all that. But these solutions are still more limited and now probably not even much more perfomant.
 

LNXD

Neo Member
Ray tracing is revolutionary. As was the physics engine for the interaction of objects but for the interaction of light.
Before the physical was not a simulation, the interactions had to be programmed, the same thing happens now with light. Games that have a good light effect are pre-calculated, any changes in the map need to be recalculated. With ray traces the behavior of the light simulates in real time, if yellow and blue are mixed, it forms green, not because it is programmed, but because the light behaves like this. In the same way that an object falls in different ways because it has different weights and shapes not because it is programmed but because the simulation of the physic engine. Watch the video for "Digital Foundry" in minute 30:00 recreates a camera obscura not because someone programmed it into the game but because of the simulation.
 

jose4gg

Member
m1.jpg


m2.jpg

I want to cry
 

Hunnybun

Member
My basic take on RT is that its benefit increases exponentially with the degree it's used.

Selective use like in Ratchet or Tomb Raider is pretty marginal, and even hard to notice sometimes.

Full path tracing like in Quake II is absolutely transformative, it's unbelievable how good that game looks.

So I'm pretty sceptical whether it's worth bothering with at all on next gen consoles, but the potential performance on PC (with DLSS and a 3080) is making me seriously consider getting a gaming machine for the first time in YEARS.
 
dPQ2CWq.jpg


SnlkWXl.jpg


one of them looks like a fucking glitch and the other looks like it should.

SSR (which is what you see on the top here) is fucking awful
and that's not even the worst example of SSR I've seen. Remedy's implementation in Quantum Break was truly disgusting at times and in Hunt Showdown it also looks like absolute ass in big bodies of water
This picture is a good example for me because I think I would actually notice it during gameplay. This and the Metro example.

While I love watching benchmarks and digital foundry videos I’m never going to notice the differences during gameplay. Even in comparisons of Control despite knowing what RT looks like unless I focus on the differences And go back and forth I probably wouldn’t notice.

RT looks amazing but I don’t find it worth the performance hit at the moment.

This is also coming from the person who prefers art style over fidelity and would much prefer to look at something like Gravity Rush, Fatal Frame 2 on Wii, or a Chillas Art game. The Ghost Train looks better IMO then any RT game I’ve seen.
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Banned
Here - this is the ultimate goal of gaming companies and studios. Realtime CG. We are a long way from it to appear in games, but this is the benchmark to reach. Nothing seen yet doesn't come close. You are looking at 2-3 generations before games can look like below.

nvidia-marbles-rtx.gif


maxresdefault.jpg


NVIDIA-Marbles-RTX-next-generation-graphics-3-672x372.jpg
 

Justin9mm

Member
Ray Tracing is a necessary evolution to advancing in graphics for accurate representation and realism and it is also more efficient for gaming development to achieve this. The look of games won't evolve without it.
 
Read my post above, for good environment artists it will save them a lot of time. They can focus on asset quality and placement rather than waste time worrying about baking in shadows and lighting.

With the correct application it's far from BS.
And this I can understand

Here - this is the ultimate goal of gaming companies and studios. Realtime CG. We are a long way from it to appear in games, but this is the benchmark to reach. Nothing seen yet doesn't come close. You are looking at 2-3 generations before games can look like below.

nvidia-marbles-rtx.gif


maxresdefault.jpg


NVIDIA-Marbles-RTX-next-generation-graphics-3-672x372.jpg
ok this is what I was asking like I guess we’re still far away from this actually being the super game changer it will be in the future
 
Last edited:

Reallink

Member
That's a "you" problem.

In the Metro comparison, is the top image RTX On or Off? The top image looks like a real life shed would once your pupils are adjusted, the bottom one looks like before your pupils are adjusted. Neither of them looks more "real" or "right" than the other, it would be situational.
 
Last edited:

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Is the top image RTX On or Off? The top image looks like a real life shed would once your pupils are adjusted, the bottom one looks like before your pupils are adjusted. Neither of them looks more "real" or "right" than the other, it would be situational.

The top image is glowing just as bright underneath the table as it is on top. Explain that. The only light source being light leaking in from the window not even in direct view of the sun.
 
Last edited:

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Here - this is the ultimate goal of gaming companies and studios. Realtime CG. We are a long way from it to appear in games, but this is the benchmark to reach. Nothing seen yet doesn't come close. You are looking at 2-3 generations before games can look like below.

nvidia-marbles-rtx.gif


maxresdefault.jpg


NVIDIA-Marbles-RTX-next-generation-graphics-3-672x372.jpg
One generation. Jo
A big thing people are not realising is that when implemented correctly it can save developers a lot of time. Example:

finn_matthiesen_snow_study_image_rtx_enabled_and_disabled.jpg


This is especially true for scenes or games that use static lighting.

Read more here:

Yes often the methods used to fake things require more work than them "just working".

You also won't notice the lack of RT sometimes because devs are just avoiding the kind of stuff that looks shitty without it. But once it becomes standard you'll see more of those sorts of things.
 

CamHostage

Member
It's important for the developer's pipeline. Maybe you don't notice it because you are just consuming the product but raytracing is easy to understand and control. That's important for developers who want things to look how they should look rather than using workarounds.

Well, to be fair, it will probably also add a lot of complications and challenges that they could just cheat their way out of before (or could still, if they 'hack' the techniques.) Like, take a cave in a Tomb Raider ... why is a cave lit up like a Disneyland ride from just Lara Croft's torch and some nonsensical glow of the water? It doesn't make any sense, but we expect our games to be both beautiful and playable all the time, and realistic darkness doesn't work for that.

1NDXATv.jpg

(Why does ice and slush "glow" And why is that one sunbeam or whatever lightsource way off in the distance light up the whole cave and even Lara's back? I don't know, but in a game, this looks cool and it works in gameplay.)

We want every game every second to look like a Hollywood blockbuster, but movies tweak their lighting for every shot. If Daniel Craig and Eva Green are at a bar together having a drink, the lighting subtly changes in the shot/reverse-shot sequences to make each one of them look absolutely stunning (trained cinematographers can even pick out the repositioning of a light or the addition of a kicker or a diffuser in the close-ups), whereas in a video game, if Nathan Drake and Elena are talking, lighting would either have to be reconfigured on the fly (and actively cut between shots, but I guess that's actually possible in a game, so long as it's so seamless gamers don't notice, and they don't have control of the camera,) or they'd have to do a one-light where the same lighting setup is compromised to look as best as possible for the two subjects.


BbYHaM7.jpg

(A shot-reverse shot example. The man has strong, contrasty lighting and the shadows cast to the side of his nose; the woman has soft lighting and the shadows fall under her nose and chin, if they even cast at all in the diffused soft glow. The same window light motivates both lighting schemes, and sometimes there are weird natural differences in a room, but this is classic Hollywood to light a man and woman at each's best.)

So, there's some complexity to what game developers are going to have to work with going forward. But at least the tools and the choices are now being put in their hands, whereas before the best they could do was whatever they could fake their way through.
 
Last edited:

Coney

Member
I think the more it's used in games and our eyes get used to it, you'll really notice something is missing playing old games or with games that don't utilize it.
 

Reallink

Member
The top image is glowing just as bright underneath the table as it is on top. Explain that. The only light source being light leaking in from the window not even in direct view of the sun.

I don't spend much time in makeshift desert sheds with 5 billion lumens of radioactive sand reflected sunlight outside a large window, so I honestly have no idea how much light bounce and reflections there would be under a table in such an environment. The bottom image looks black crushed, the top image looks blown out.
 
Last edited:
I think ray-tracing will eliminate the need for cube mapped reflections that always looked like you were looking at the mirrored image from the wrong angle/elevation and didn't show your reflection. It also creates more nuanced lighting and shadows which is important when trying to create more convincing photorealistic environments. And I don't think you need to worry about it replacing any unique, interesting art styles. If anything, it should help compliment them so long as the game's art director moderates how they use it based on the scene (not every reflective surface should appear squeaky clean).
 
Last edited:

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
I don't spend much time in makeshift desert sheds with 5 billion lumens of radioactive sand reflected sunlight outside a large window, so I honestly have no idea how much light bounce and reflections there would be under a table in such an environment.

You've been on this earth all these years and have real world experience with light. A table next to the wall of the only window where light is entering and you're trying to justify that it would be just as bright underneath while in shadow? You know which one looks more real. Not going to try to convince you any further though.
 
Ah yes ray tracing. Ive started to call it ’dark mode’. Turn on ray tracing and everthing goes dark.
even that nvidia marble rt demo today.... I rolled my eyes when he said ‘At night’.
Dark
I get that RT helps with reflections. But can I please just be able to see your world?
Next gen characters will all need to carry flashlights.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I'm kinda struggling to get that impressed too. At least by ray tracing on its own, only!

Like, to me games really don't automatically look good just because you add RT. Games that look like shit to begin with, like Quake or Minecraft still look like complete shit to me with RT.

The marbles demo from Nvidia looks kinda good.. I guess? But to me it's really nothing mind-blowing, like the Unreal Engine 5 demo or hell, The Last of Us 2. I need very detailed/realistic facial animation and motion capture to see any kind of realism - that's what makes me impressed. (Obviously, everything about the character model from the UE5 demo was underwhelming, but the demo as a whole blew me away).

Like in Ghost of Tsushima, the faces and animation is pretty average to me but the foliage and nature flowing is jaw-dropping. But in terms of realism and how impressed I am, The Last of Us 2 has everything beaten.

I hope to see the light (literally!) soon though as this thing matures, and is used more regularly and also on consoles.
 

CamHostage

Member
Ah yes ray tracing. Ive started to call it ’dark mode’. Turn on ray tracing and everthing goes dark.
even that nvidia marble rt demo today.... I rolled my eyes when he said ‘At night’.
Dark
I get that RT helps with reflections. But can I please just be able to see your world?
Next gen characters will all need to carry flashlights.

Heh, no, they just kill all the lights and put wet puddles in all the demos because that's the easiest way to show off the effects and to show you something you couldn't see that way before. (And by the way, same with Hollywood movies; there's a reason why lots of The Matrix is set at night or in dimly-lit corridors, or why every night scene on the streets looks like it has just rained. It gives the Director of Photography a lot of surfaces to control and play light off of. )

Most of the best RT though, the stuff that's IMO made to look "real" rather than "hyped-up", that stuff has been during regular lighting conditions. Because Minecraft and Fortnite, they don't need to convince you that they're the next-generation of gaming because they're not; instead, they just need to show you that the things you've seen before can look totally different in what is, well, a new light.

If it helps, that same RTX Marbles demo was originally done back in May using a simulation of regular daylight conditions.

 
Last edited:

Reallink

Member
You've been on this earth all these years and have real world experience with light. A table next to the wall of the only window where light is entering and you're trying to justify that it would be just as bright underneath while in shadow? You know which one looks more real. Not going to try to convince you any further though.

You don't have to convince me of RT, Minecraft is unmistakable and I know it'll eventually be a huge boon for developers. Metro however is not a good exemplar. In the middle of a sunny afternoon, an open leg table like this in front of a large window is not jet black beneath it. It's actually very bright, because the sun light bounces off the floor, surrounding walls, etc which acts as a light source. This is not happening in this Metro example, beneath the table is a black hole and it just looks wrong.
 
Last edited:
Well, to be fair, it will probably also add a lot of complications and challenges that they could just cheat their way out of before (or could still, if they 'hack' the techniques.) Like, take a cave in a Tomb Raider ... why is a cave lit up like a Disneyland ride from just Lara Croft's torch and some nonsensical glow of the water? It doesn't make any sense, but we expect our games to be both beautiful and playable all the time, and realistic darkness doesn't work for that.

1NDXATv.jpg

(Why does ice and slush "glow" And why is that one sunbeam or whatever lightsource way off in the distance light up the whole cave and even Lara's back? I don't know, but in a game, this looks cool and it works in gameplay.)

We want every game every second to look like a Hollywood blockbuster, but movies tweak their lighting for every shot. If Daniel Craig and Eva Green are at a bar together having a drink, the lighting subtly changes in the shot/reverse-shot sequences to make each one of them look absolutely stunning (trained cinematographers can even pick out the repositioning of a light or the addition of a kicker or a diffuser in the close-ups), whereas in a video game, if Nathan Drake and Elena are talking, lighting would either have to be reconfigured on the fly (and actively cut between shots, but I guess that's actually possible in a game, so long as it's so seamless gamers don't notice, and they don't have control of the camera,) or they'd have to do a one-light where the same lighting setup is compromised to look as best as possible for the two subjects.


BbYHaM7.jpg

(A shot-reverse shot example. The man has strong, contrasty lighting and the shadows cast to the side of his nose; the woman has soft lighting and the shadows fall under her nose and chin, if they even cast at all in the diffused soft glow. The same window light motivates both lighting schemes, and sometimes there are weird natural differences in a room, but this is classic Hollywood to light a man and woman at each's best.)

So, there's some complexity to what game developers are going to have to work with going forward. But at least the tools and the choices are now being put in their hands, whereas before the best they could do was whatever they could fake their way through.
I work in the film industry and can confirm this - I assume they would fix this in games by putting light sources in unrealistic places maybe? Still A LOT of work goes into lighting a specific shot, static, facing one way - so it’s gotta be hard
 

Brofist

Member
For the type of games I like which mostly AA Japanese games then no I honestly couldn't care less for ray tracing.

I would say ray tracing mostly gonna be used by AAA western developers which always about having realistic graphics.

I'm sorry stuff like this just doesn't excites me, not even in the slightest. It bores the crap out of me.

I mean good for you? The games you just described bore the crap out of me and guess what? I don't even bother to comment them in their respective topics.

Lots of games would benefit from this btw, not only Call of Duty. But hey let's just dismiss it straight away for no reason
 
Last edited:

CamHostage

Member
Yeah, I'm kinda struggling to get that impressed too. At least by ray tracing on its own, only!

Like, to me games really don't automatically look good just because you add RT.

Sure, RT itself does not a game make. Right now we're overexcited about everything that sounds next-gen (and underwhelmed, frankly, by what we're getting, as we're just not getting many demos or game sessions despite being so close to launch, plus it seems like developers just aren't ready yet to really harness all this power if'n they ever will.) But nearly infinite polygons, dynamic Chaos physics, direct film-quality source art, AI-blended character animation... all that quickly makes sense to even laymen for what we'll get out of a game. But reflections on a pond, or shiny metal on a robot, or neon signs that glow on wet streets, or mirrors that work like mirrors, all the RT FX reels show off stuff that is pretty but pretty vacant. And the games that look the most different from their past-gen equivalents are also some of the simplest, cartoony-looking games on the market.

So, will RT specifically ever have that undenaible knock-out punch? I don't know, it's there to simulate reality so by it's nature it shouldn't do that in the first place! Plus it's a costly technique on performance and so every time we turn it on with the machines we have to see what it can do, the performance tanks and so who gives a crap if it looks more real, the play sucks. But these new machines should be able to handle it better, and more and more it'll be how games are made. (Heck, even mobile phones are getting in on RT.) I don't know if it's good for us to jam a click onto every headline with Raytracing on it to see what amazing lighting (or not) we'll be getting; instead RT's influence will be more subtle and natural. In time, like with differed rendering or z-buffering or whatever, we will look back and ask why something old doesn't look as good as we remembered, and the difference will have been that raytracing and global illumination made a new normal.

....But also, you said the UE5 demo looks amazing? Part of it is because it has lights with "infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections", and you can crack the ceiling and get light pouring through or move the sun and get totally different light bounces ... that's kind of all apiece with the raytracing and global Illumination that we're talking about here.

maxresdefault.jpg


I work in the film industry and can confirm this - I assume they would fix this in games by putting light sources in unrealistic places maybe? Still A LOT of work goes into lighting a specific shot, static, facing one way - so it’s gotta be hard

Well, with games, you can do things that you can't do with film. Like let's say you want a bright halo to glow over Clank's head as he wakes up in a new world, but you don't actually want some big ringlight in the scene as you pull back, and you don't want that light to actually be seen in the reflection on his head. In film, that'd be a bitch to cheat; you'd be using hairspray and blackwrap and maybe matte painting or digital mattes over the lights and everything you can to cheat the look in. WIth a game, just say, "Shine a light here, but DON'T show it," and it's there.

But here's a fun thing to do when this damned disease is gone: go to Disneyland, and on a dark ride, look backwards or look up. As you probably have done yourself, you can break the illusion by looking at it outside the audience viewpoint. There are spotlights and blacklights lights everywhere, sometimes you can see the mechanics that operate the characters, etc. A dark ride is made to be a Hollywood movie or cartoon come to life, but if you were to ride it backwards, you'd see all the "magician's secrets."

Games are a little bit the same way, even. You don't have to cut holes in the stucco to motivate a light, but there are lots of cutouts and fake geometry and bogus light sources in games. There was a great PS2 bonus disc called Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 that let you fly through the scenes and see how all that was pulled off on a meager PS2, and granted, that was back when developer counted every polygon they put on screen to make sure they weren't pushing too hard, but games today do still pull off a lot of sleight-of-hand to look better than they are.
 
Last edited:

DelireMan7

Member
Honestly, I don't event get all the discussion about graphics/nextgen/framerate/4K/....

It's just not what interest me in gaming. But to each their own.

The only problem is that I have the feeling developers focus too much on visuals/graphics at the detriment of art design/world building/story/truly entertaining gameplay/...
 

Yoboman

Member
When was the last mind blowing leap in lighting?

I feel like Doom 3 was the last time I was simply amazed by the technical leap forward by lighting in particular

Since then, its all been incremental. Slow advancements that make the overall image quality better. You dont really notice until you're in the game experiencing it

Or even going back and looking at older games that don't have modern lighting techniques just feels dated. I played Witcher 3 again recently which looked incredible at the time, but after RDR2 the lighting feels so fake and artificial. I can't name all the techniques they are using for RDR2, I just know it looks great.

Im sure there will be a point I go back to RDR2 and it feels dated
 
Play through Metro Exodus with raytracing on. Then try playing through it again with raytracing off. Suddenly you'll notice the fake lighting everywhere and it will look fake and gamey as fuck. It's one of those things where it doesn't seem like a big deal until you've really experienced it.
 

A.Romero

Member
RT in games is relatively new, devs are still figuring out how to properly take full advantage of what is possible.

In the next few years we will see its true potential.

For example, right now great lighting is reserved for very capable studios. With RT there won't be a need for such high skills, making even indie games capable of illumination that right now is reserved to the bigger studios.

However it is true that stuff is only important for graphic whores like myself, people that can notice when shadows are just not right or that can easily tell the difference between a 1080P image and a 4K image.

If people settled to what is practical or evident, maybe we would still be playing games rendering a 720P resolution (I got to see people arguing how useless increasing resolution was back in the PS3 days).

Thankfully, manufacturers care about selling new stuff so they find themselves innovating constantly.
 
I say its gonna be awhile until we get games that can really show it off properly. For example Metro Exodus...yeah I can see the difference but that game I dont stare at one room..I keep moving my cursor, in and out of areas etc so the chances of me having a good look at the difference is minimal. I think for the longest time its going to be small indie games with tight spaces that will show it off because it wont be as power hungry as lets say an open world game. And those...I remember the Battlefield 5 RTX example...reflection in the eyes....WOW! That shit id never notice even if you told me to look hard so theres definitely some stupid implementation and Im against it if it affects performance too much.

For example if RTX is going to hinder going from 30-60 fps then we are definately taking a step back. Resolution and texture quality are still the main things that show off the image quality. I dont need my game spit-shined to tell me its a good looking game. As someone said, curb your expectations, the baked lighting is pretty good and RTX is amazing next step to replace it as long as it doesnt mess with performance which it will.
 
Last edited:

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Play through Metro Exodus with raytracing on. Then try playing through it again with raytracing off. Suddenly you'll notice the fake lighting everywhere and it will look fake and gamey as fuck. It's one of those things where it doesn't seem like a big deal until you've really experienced it.

Agreed. This same song and dance has already played out with ambient occlusion, anti aliasing, tessellation, and every other advancement that gave a large performance hit. Its a good thing the ones driving this stuff forward never listened to the "I just dont see it" bunch.
 

UnNamed

Banned
The problem is Raytracing is more accurate but this doesn't mean it is more plausible to our brain, and rasterization techniques have reached an high level of plausibility today. That's why many people don't see much difference between in RT games as Control. It's not better, it's just different.

For example, even environment mapping is plausible sometimes, see reflection on cars. When you see reflection on cars, or even some reflection on puddles, our brain is tricked to think it is plausible enough. Reflections on mirrors are, on the contrary, too much strange, are immediately not plausibiles.
 

bbeach123

Member
I think Nvidia could make a great GI solution without depending on RT . But that doesn't sell gpu or doesnt sound as cool .
Here this is NVIDIA Voxel GI take minimal performance hit but still archive great result , but Nvidia stop supporting it after RT .

 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Most of games can just have the GI baked in. Ray tracing does not really help with these more static games
 
I think many current gen games look flat when there are large areas without direct sunlight. Ironically, Halo Infinite might be the poster child here and I think ray tracing will help that game a lot. Some games like RDR2 do an amazing job of simulating realistic lighting without ray tracing, but not every dev has the skill and resources to achieve that.
 

Altares13th

Member
I gotta be real. This whole talk about ray tracing and the push for it - I’m not seeing the major graphical leap everyone else seems to be seeing. Like fluid simulations and physics interactions - that all looks game-changing impressive to me. Ray tracing? Eh. I honestly didn’t mind whatever tricks they were using before to simulate reflections and lighting - am I missing something or have we just not gotten to a point where the technology is advanced enough to make a huge difference graphically in a normal game?

RT can be used inline with DX_12_2 and supposedly the PS5. Which means you can call the acceleration from any part of the code, even for non-graphical things like physics. We have yet to see the 1st games which will benefit from hardware based physics (cloth simulation, fluids...etc) - Physics right now use raytracing on the CPU to calculate the distance between surfaces and interactions. It's accelerated via GPGPU but it's still using compute, not hardware.

As for graphics, micro-polygons (triangles smaller than a pixel) are much more heavy to rasterise than to ray-trace. It becomes counter productive. I reckon we are not there yet, but it will happen.
 

TonyK

Member
I don't like the tendency to associate RT only with reflections. I mean, the reflections in the water in AAA games look pretty good. The physical behavior of water is what sucks. But the efforts are not aimed at making the water more realistic but nicer. And that's with everything, it's like if the final goal was a static screenshot and not interaction.

Use RT to improve lighting, not to make mirror-like puddles.
 
When was the last mind blowing leap in lighting?

I feel like Doom 3 was the last time I was simply amazed by the technical leap forward by lighting in particular

Since then, its all been incremental. Slow advancements that make the overall image quality better. You dont really notice until you're in the game experiencing it

Or even going back and looking at older games that don't have modern lighting techniques just feels dated. I played Witcher 3 again recently which looked incredible at the time, but after RDR2 the lighting feels so fake and artificial. I can't name all the techniques they are using for RDR2, I just know it looks great.

Im sure there will be a point I go back to RDR2 and it feels dated
Doom 3 and half life 2 both blew me away graphically just with their respective new technologies at the time it seemed like a crazy leap. Since then I haven’t seen something that was as huge of a leap so maybe I expected it to make a bigger difference the way people talk about it - and people saying how Halo Infinite will look way better with it implemented. I’ve watched the videos on it but haven’t played the games myself so maybe it’s just that. I do like the idea that you can move objects in a scene physically and the light reacts to them more realistically. The whole reflections stuff - just doesn’t do it for me I guess. However I will say that I’ve seen some demos with voxels and destruction/lighting/physics using voxels and THAT looks impressive to me if they could somehow make it less blocky that seems like a game changer.

But from what I gather in this thread this will be a game changer at some point in the future - but not necessarily in this current generation as much as it seems to be touted to be - or at least for as much as Nvidia and the next gen consoles seem to focus on it as a selling point.
 
I don't like the tendency to associate RT only with reflections. I mean, the reflections in the water in AAA games look pretty good. The physical behavior of water is what sucks. But the efforts are not aimed at making the water more realistic but nicer. And that's with everything, it's like if the final goal was a static screenshot and not interaction.

Use RT to improve lighting, not to make mirror-like puddles.
Yes! This is what I’m talking about - the physical behavior of water. I see basically no games that have improved it that drastically since like Xbox 360 days and I am still confused as to why that is.
 
RT can be used inline with DX_12_2 and supposedly the PS5. Which means you can call the acceleration from any part of the code, even for non-graphical things like physics. We have yet to see the 1st games which will benefit from hardware based physics (cloth simulation, fluids...etc) - Physics right now use raytracing on the CPU to calculate the distance between surfaces and interactions. It's accelerated via GPGPU but it's still using compute, not hardware.

As for graphics, micro-polygons (triangles smaller than a pixel) are much more heavy to rasterise than to ray-trace. It becomes counter productive. I reckon we are not there yet, but it will happen.
Oh, so why is that not happening? Are we just not focusing on it? The hardware physics? Or is the tech not there?
 
Top Bottom