Support NeoGAF

[BlueXImpulse]

TLOU2 takes 50 seconds longer to load on PS5 than PS4 Pro.....

So, before you go off thinking this is a win..... there are probably patches incoming.

For those who don't know what he is talking about



Clearly there is something wrong on the software side here.

I would be editing my posts if I was certain individuals right now.

 

[DForce]

That doesn't matter too much; look at the chart Longdi posted above and apparently PS4 Pro has faster cold boot time than both PS5 and Series X, but PS4 Pro wasn't designed with SSDs in mind.

BC games (and all games in general), even if they aren't programmed explicitly to the full capabilities of a system's I/O design, they still have the raw hardware to leverage. People need to keep in mind the BC games being tested here by and large aren't even leveraging most of MS's XvA features; it's unknown if they are leveraging Sony's raw or not. I'd assume they aren't programmed against most of Sony's featureset.

At the very least we can already get a glimpse of how these solutions will perform in practice and it turns out it's not going to be the clear-out blow-out in favor of PS5 a lot of people were repeatedly saying, because there's still other parts of the system architecture that have to work with the data coming off the SSDs. I think once both are getting pushed to their limits, Sony's solution will maintain a lead in terms of I/O, but the real-world margin between them and MS on this note is going to be a lot smaller than people have been conditioned to think it'd be going simply off some of the (few) specs on the I/O we got on paper early in the year.

This post doesn't make any sense.

It's clear that the PlayStation 5 is not taking advantage of the true SSD or I/O performance.

Look at Red Dead Redemption 2 with a slower SSD than the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.

PlayStation 4 Pro: 1:01:22
Xbox Series X: 1:04:55
PlayStation 5: 1:05:06

PlayStation 4 Pro - Samsung 850 EVO




You don't use this as evidence or proof of Sony's I/O speed vs VA. You need actual optimized games.

 

[Kagey K]

This is true. But why should we care about this? The fact remains, you are dropping frames and the smoother experience is on PS5.

Thankfully HDMI 2.1 has VRR, it will be just as smooth if you have a tv/monitor capable of using the feature.

 

[Krisprolls]

Remember all those people saying these games would load in 2 seconds on PS5?

Good Times.

On next gen games, it's basically true, if Spiderman if anything to go by.

On BC games, the SSD seems to have been locked lower, probably to avoid breaking the game. Not a big deal, it's not like we'll play BC games most of the time.

 

[Montauk]

LoL John , say no more ...

Remember that a lot of people here insist that DF are sent cheques by MS to rubbish Sony. So funny.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Seems to be old firmware as evident in this video it shows FFXV load in half the time

In the GameSpot video they are cold booting the games. Nothing to do with firmware.

This is just menu > game

 

[The Chairman]

round up at a glance

But what about the PS5 super fast, secret sauce, magic, CELL powered SSD??!!

 

[sinnergy]

But what about the PS5 super fast, secret sauce, magic, CELL powered SSD??!!

It needs a firmware patch ...

 

[MCplayer]

Not only is xsx loading faster but also loading games with higher pixel density and detail

 

[Brofist]

Not only is xsx loading faster but also loading games with higher pixel density and detail

But can you blow into your controller?

 

[Jose92]

In the GameSpot video they are cold booting the games. Nothing to do with firmware.

This is just menu > game

Actually you are right

 

[Krisprolls]

But what about the PS5 super fast, secret sauce, magic, CELL powered SSD??!!

Any word on Spiderman, where it works faster than anything ? You know, the next gen exclusive ? A few seconds for loading levels or starting the game.

I'd say SSD does pretty well.

BC loading times will be patched or not, doesn't matter that much.

 

[Nikana]

But can you blow into your controller?

I mean we all can. I also lick it.

 

[Spanky]

Push Square has a Cold Boot (to Spiderman MM menu) time of 9.12 seconds..... hmm....

 

[kevm3]

Based on what? Look, people wanted to see proof in data of games on both systems to see how they would perform on them. We're getting that now. But for some folks, these aren't the results they wanted, so the goalposts are being shifted instead of just saying "yeah, it is what it is here", and being open to it either staying that way or shifting back the other way when other points of comparison come about.

This is what's called an emotional response, not a logical one. It's a bit striking considering people were waiting on objective data and now we're finally getting some, but it doesn't fit what they wanted to happen. There's nothing wrong with giving results their due, it doesn't suddenly mean the other solution is inferior. I wouldn't even be surprised if there are some BC games PS5 loads faster, we just have to wait for results to prove that (and hopefully they are honest results).

That wouldn't suddenly mean Series X's solution is poor, but I have a feeling some people here would try shifting the entire meta discussion into that framework hinging it all on a few examples favoring PS5, then putting those examples on a pedestal and being the only valid ones...or something.

I don't know why this tribalistic mentality when it comes to consoles is still a thing

The reality is that it IS what it is here. The Xbox has a much better, software based BC solution that can take advantage of the better hardware in the Series X whereas the PS5 has a hardware based solution that seems to do little more than play those games at their original speed/resolution, etc.

If we are going to compare the SSD speeds, then we need to look at current gen games where the SSD's speed is actually being taken advantage of.

 

[longdi]

But what about the PS5 super fast, secret sauce, magic, CELL powered SSD??!!

You mean the tempest audio with Cell like power? Watch on.

 

[Krisprolls]

Remember that a lot of people here insist that DF are sent cheques by MS to rubbish Sony. So funny.

There's no "DF is...".

John seems to be mostly a PS fan, Alex mostly a Xbox / PC fan, Richard I don't know, mostly a Xbox fan I think. It's okay.

 

[Razvedka]

Surprised how? I've followed info on both systems for a long time now, and looked into various research papers and patents with regards to them. There are a lot of things regarding how data read from the SSDs is actually used that a lot of people haven't been considering.

Yes it's true BC optimizations count for a good deal here, but in the same breath you have DF being very impressed with PS5's BC, so would that not mean Sony have done a lot of optimizations with their own BC? You can't have your cake and eat it too; if BC is at the root then we'd be seeing that manifest in actual BC software performance on PS5 being behind, too, but that doesn't look to be the case.

I still think PS5's solution will maintain an edge but there's nothing outside of some paper specs (which did not list a lot of details, like random read speeds on the NAND modules...I could try getting documentation on that if the specific part models of the NAND for both systems was more clearly listed (and the documentation even available in a PDF)) suggesting it'll be a blowout. This isn't a slight at Sony's solution, just a tip of the hat to MS's for being more elaborately planned out than some people were willing to consider.

The solutions are actually more apples-to-oranges in the first place which is why I always thought going simply off paper specs wasn't the best idea particularly surrounding the SSD I/O because that seems to be the area the systems diverge from the most. The way some people were treating MS's solution however they would think it was an afterthought, which didn't make sense even months back, and we're starting to see why that wasn't a good notion since we're getting actual data showing how these systems run some of these games, something we've been waiting to see since the end of last year.

What cake? I don't own a PS5 or an XSX. I don't plan too either, not for a long time. I have zero money or emotional investment in the machines.

I think that these results illustrate how the PS5 and the XSX handle BC. I don't think it actually puts the hardware and associated APIs for either machine through its paces, although I don't mean to detract from the technical accomplishment by either Sony or MS in doing what they've done to support the last generation of hardware.

My criticism has everything to do with B/C not being a proper benchmark for either machine. It well could be that the XSX's I/O is near the equivalent to PS5s but what we're seeing right now is not proof of that claim (or the inverse, that it is grossly inferior). It's a data point with too many variables surrounding it to be worth anything. To prematurely use it as an example of how your argument is correct, that the two machines have very equivalent I/O, is very premature on that basis.

I stand by my assertion that if the principal evidence being used to support your assertion (and those of others here) is the B/C performance in terms of loading on these machines then yes it will very likely age like milk because that's a (flawed) datapoint of 1. I appreciate that you're using this as an additional piece of evidence upon what you consider a growing pile of well reasoned analysis, and to your credit (as I have said) I enjoy your posts. But I wouldn't use what we're seeing right now as any sort of proof for anything.

 

[Starcheif]

This improvement in load times is great! Why less time waiting for load times this Gen is a win win.

 

[Nikana]

You mean the tempest audio with Cell like power? Watch on.

Not shocked in the slighest.

 

[Dnice123]

Not only is xsx loading faster but also loading games with higher pixel density and detail

I wonder if that "consistent" performance of the SSD MS talked so much about come into play.

 

[kevm3]

 

[Kagey K]

Any word on Spiderman, where it works faster than anything ? You know, the next gen exclusive ? A few seconds for loading levels or starting the game.

I'd say SSD does pretty well.

BC loading times will be patched or not, doesn't matter that much.

The what now?

 

[azertydu91]

I mean we all can. I also lick it.

But can you lick my controller?....

*** plays some Barry White in the background and tone down the light ***

...Slowly.

 

[M1chl]

Remeber how certain people were laughing that XSX loading times in BC are embarassing? Good times.

 

[reinking]

I am so glad this gen moved to SSD. Fantastic improvements on all new consoles.

 

[azertydu91]

The what now?

Yep although he is wrong you may not be familiar with the term exclusive and I understand.

That can't be played on another console or on PC.That would be a definition.

 

[TheAssist]

So today we learned that games need to be optimized in order to take advantage of the PS5, because their BS simply isnt as good.

I can live with that. Wasnt planning on playing old games on it anyway.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Based on what? Look, people wanted to see proof in data of games on both systems to see how they would perform on them. We're getting that now. But for some folks, these aren't the results they wanted, so the goalposts are being shifted instead of just saying "yeah, it is what it is here", and being open to it either staying that way or shifting back the other way when other points of comparison come about.

This is what's called an emotional response, not a logical one. It's a bit striking considering people were waiting on objective data and now we're finally getting some, but it doesn't fit what they wanted to happen. There's nothing wrong with giving results their due, it doesn't suddenly mean the other solution is inferior. I wouldn't even be surprised if there are some BC games PS5 loads faster, we just have to wait for results to prove that (and hopefully they are honest results).

That wouldn't suddenly mean Series X's solution is poor, but I have a feeling some people here would try shifting the entire meta discussion into that framework hinging it all on a few examples favoring PS5, then putting those examples on a pedestal and being the only valid ones...or something.

I don't know why this tribalistic mentality when it comes to consoles is still a thing

People won’t be spending their next 7 years playing PS4 games. So when/if next gen games show PS5 loading speeds being much faster than XSX don’t come around with no ifs and buts, no “wait for it”, keep that same energy you have now.

Fact is in BC titles XSX is loading games faster, and clearly it’s not because of XVA or whatever. But it is what it is.

 

[Kagey K]

Yep although he is wrong you may not be familiar with the term exclusive and I understand.

That can't be played on another console or on PC.That would be a definition.

So the PS4 isn’t another console? Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[splattered]

Any word on Spiderman, where it works faster than anything ? You know, the next gen exclusive ? A few seconds for loading levels or starting the game.

I'd say SSD does pretty well.

BC loading times will be patched or not, doesn't matter that much.

Sure but it's a small 8 hour game. How many people are going to play through this game 100 times until another heavy hitter comes out next fall? Some people will be playing annual stuff like COD but most people will be playing BC games until the big games start dropping in a year or two. This matters more than you realize.

 

[azertydu91]

So the PS4 isn’t another console? Thanks for clearing that up.

So you can't read? Thanks for clearing that out.

Yep although he is wrong you may not be familiar with the term exclusive and I understand.

That can't be played on another console or on PC.That would be a definition.

 

[JonkyDonk]

My guess is that these BC game loading differences are more down to CPU clock difference and not SSD, because I doubt that in either case the games are making much use of the SSD and I/O advantages at all.

 

[KAL2006]

We need a comparison for next gen games

Dirt 5
Devil May Cry 5
NBA2K
Black Ops Cold War

Then if Series X is faster at loading than PS5 with next gen games then I would question why Sony went for their insane SSD and not just go with the same setup as Series X.

 

[sinnergy]

My guess is that these BC game loading differences are more down to CPU clock difference and not SSD, because I doubt that in either case the games are taking much advantage of the SSD and I/O advantages at all.

Why wouldn’t either company use the Ssd to the fullest with loading ???

 

[RoboFu]

For those who don't know what he is talking about



Clearly there is something wrong on the software side here.

I would be editing my posts if I was certain individuals right now.

Its not about winning its about some people whyo kept saying "INSATNT LOADS.. NO IT'S NOT LIKE PC SSD ITS INSTANT!" where the rest of us said " YOU GUYS HAVE WAY TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS.. IT WILL BE FASTER BUT NOT INSTANT"

Now of course games made for the new software / hardware will be much faster but so will it on PC and Xbox as well.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Shouldn't we be comparing next gen multiplatform games instead of current gen under BC?
New consoles are mainly for new games.

 

[JonkyDonk]

Why wouldn’t either company use the Ssd to the fullest with loading ???

These are old games, not built with the SSDs and I/O in mind. So a lot of decompression work falls on the CPU, and the XSX has a faster CPU.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Its not about winning its about some people whyo kept saying "INSATNT LOADS.. NO IT'S NOT LIKE PC SSD ITS INSTANT!" where the rest of us said " YOU GUYS HAVE WAY TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS.. IT WILL BE FASTER BUT NOT INSTANT"

Now of course games made for the new software / hardware will be much faster but so will it on PC and Xbox as well.

Don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Aguero9320]

Seems close enough for me not to care either way, as expected tbh. The hype over this has been fucking embarrassing.

I’m actually going to miss loading a bit - always been a good time to take a mini break, check my phone etc.

I also predict they will ruin Ratchet & Clank crow barring in a jarring need to swap between levels all the time, just to prove you can. Will be tiresome for a while, but I expect it to settle down mid gen.

 

[jaysius]

You mean the tempest audio with Cell like power? Watch on.

NO! TEMPEST 3D AUDIO IS A REVOLUTIONARY SOUND TECH that is CHANGING EVERYTHING!!!!!

I'm sorry there were some people that didn't understand what I was saying, on PC this same old idea has been toyed with for DECADES the idea that Sony is doing it isn't new. It'll end up "poor man's surround" for headphones and TV speakers.

Here's you're HARSH reality everyone that was thinking this was going to CHANGE AUDIO FOREVER, it all relies on integrations of it, THEN the way audio sounds is SUBJECTIVE, so it might sound GREAT to you(we're going to see a TON of "X outlet is hating on PS5's TEMPEST AUDIO".

PS5 is a nice piece of technology, there are so many things to celebrate about it without having to find odd niche features to hype about it.

3D Audio from Sony is still very NEW, we need to see how developers INTEGRATE it into their games. More than likely first parties will do an amazing job with it, with maybe lesser efforts from 3rd parties.

Tempest 3D Audio isn't MAGIC it still is another feature that requires understanding to be used.

 

[RaySoft]

You cant compafe BC mode SSD speeds to native Series X and PS5 games. The PS5 in BC modd DELIBERATELY hplds the ssd back because otherwise the bc game could break if the loading is too fast. This is a deliberate move by Sony to incfease compatibility.
In native mode the PS5's ssd is much faster than the Series X. (wich is what that tweet insinuates)

 

[AntonioBanderasXsX]

Aren't both embargos lifted now? Why haven't we seen next gen cross platform comparisons

 

[Dogman]

Aren't both embargos lifted now? Why haven't we seen next gen cross platform comparisons

Those games still have review embargos so nobody can really talk about them

 

[Knitted Knight]

Don't know what the fuss is about?

Spider-man Miles Morales loads in 4.40 secs cold boot, 1.32 secs from Menu. Bound to improve with the updates (both game and system firmware). Those load times are on a huge open world, full of dynamic AI and interactivity (from cars to pedestrians, to enemy outposts, side-actives etc), with RayTracing and other next-gen bells and whistles. This is also a game where you can swing through various street blocks at the speed of mere seconds. That's a lot of strain on the rendering pipeline considering the constant drawcalls the system is handling. You're only gonna get that at that fidelity on a system that can stuff that 16 gigs (technically less but that's besides the point) of RAM to the fullest in a sec.

For comparison, Gears 5 takes 8 secs just to load a mission. This is a linear game without RayTracing that has been chosen by MS to be its showcase and has been patched rigorously with higher res textures and the like for the XSX. It even got new DLC for it. If you can't get lower load times with Gears 5 compared to Miles after putting in the work.... lol.... good luck for the rest of the gen.

I know the cherry picking is something that works for the starved right now (at least something right) but you're just setting yourself up with that post history. Although the usual behavior is to go AWOL and then reappear when better news suit the environment.

 

[Kagey K]

So you can't read? Thanks for clearing that out.

That can't be played on another console......That can't be played on another console......That can't be played on another console?

Surely my comprehension is failing,

 

[elenapska]

I think he deleted his post.

and also...

 

[Hendrick's]

Velocity Architecture wasn't just PR it seems.

 

[Bernkastel]

Velocity Architecture wasn't just PR it seems.

Backwards Compatibility does not use Velocity Architecture, it just runs on raw SSD speed. But Series S/X games will, especially upcoming games like The Medium.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Its not about winning its about some people whyo kept saying "INSATNT LOADS.. NO IT'S NOT LIKE PC SSD ITS INSTANT!" where the rest of us said " YOU GUYS HAVE WAY TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS.. IT WILL BE FASTER BUT NOT INSTANT"

Now of course games made for the new software / hardware will be much faster but so will it on PC and Xbox as well.

The point is near instant loadings. That’s the promise for next gen on PS5.

From the few examples we have, it really is near instant.

You’re claiming a victory that doesn’t exist.