A movie isn't a movie without compelling meat to it. That meat includes story and production. For a game, a game isn't a game without a compelling narrative and good gameplay.
Ok so..It sure seems the less game making Jaffe does, the louder he gets. Then when he's making a game you never hear from him.
The guy's last good game was God of War II 13 years ago on PS2. I guess he needs the spotlight. Looks like he hasn't done anything since Drawn to Death except for a podcast.
In 2014, he announced his first project on his new studio The Bartlet Jones Supernatural Detective Agency called Drawn to Death as a PlayStation 4 exclusive.[7] The game received mixed reviews, and due to the cancellation of an unannounced title, his newfound company shut down a year later.[8]
Since leaving his previous company, Jaffe now primarily live streams his show, Gabbin' + Games, formerly The Jaffe Stream, via Twitch and YouTube. Here, he openly converses with his audience via live chat and Discord about the past and current state of the video game industry, world events, pop culture, politics, metaphysics, the paranormal and existentialism just to name a few.
Works[edit]
- Cliffhanger (1993) (NES, Super NES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Mega CD/Sega CD) - tester
- Skyblazer (1993) (Super NES) - tester
- Mickey Mania (1994) (Super NES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Mega CD/Sega CD)[9] - designer
- Twisted Metal (1995) (PC/PlayStation) - designer
- Twisted Metal 2 (1996) (PC/PlayStation) - game director, producer, and designer
- Twisted Metal: Black (2001) (PS2)
- Kinetica (2001) (PS2)
- God of War (2005) (PS2) - game director
- Twisted Metal: Head-On (2005) (PSP) - game director
- God of War II (2007) (PS2) - creative director
- Calling All Cars! (2007) (PS3) - game director
- Twisted Metal (2012) (PS3) - game director
- Drawn to Death (2017) (PS4) - game director
Are serious with this kind of posts? Fortnite for best game design every year?Another take from washed-up developer with beard.
Games have evolved since the 90s. There is more meat to them than quriky gameplay.
As far as "game design" goes whatever that means, fortnite would probably win that every year considering it basically revolutionized the multiplayer genre and has by far the most "interactive" gameplay from any game in recent memory. You guys can laugh at that but it's the truth. There's a reason why a multitude of developers tried copying the the fortnite formula and still do today. There's a reason why fortnite basically brought all these normies into gaming.
A movie isn't a movie without compelling meat to it. That meat includes story and production. For a game, a game isn't a game without a compelling narrative and good gameplay. Idk why this guy is always so outraged over nothing. Game design includes all the moving parts of the puzzles these days, inlcuding story, soundtrack, combat mechanics, gameplay loop, etc..
Sometimes I forgot that these awards are only passed out from the big halls of "game" journalists...While I don't disagree, it's worth nothing: these Awards are used to drive engagement with the givers, not to represent some meaningful codification within the industry. They will always - always - go to the games that would generate the most publicity, the most clicks, the most engagement. The Game Awards exist because the industry feels the need to celebrate itself in front of an audience, not because informed people of knowledge decided to hand out their own awards to represent perceived milestones. If a panel of industry legends worked together to hand out awards independently, for example, that would mean something. IGN's "Technical innovation" award is a laughing stock because its handed out by the people who argued that the human eye couldn't perceive differences in resolutions higher than 1080p. The fuck do these people know about anything?
Games have evolved since the 90s.
Ya. Depends on the game.But have they really? If anything, they've devolved IMO. It seems very few people even focus on gameplay anymore...
I just want to make sure I understand.Another take from washed-up developer with beard.
Games have evolved since the 90s. There is more meat to them than quriky gameplay.
As far as "game design" goes whatever that means, fortnite would probably win that every year considering it basically revolutionized the multiplayer genre and has by far the most "interactive" gameplay from any game in recent memory. You guys can laugh at that but it's the truth. There's a reason why a multitude of developers tried copying the the fortnite formula and still do today. There's a reason why fortnite basically brought all these normies into gaming.
A movie isn't a movie without compelling meat to it. That meat includes story and production. For a game, a game isn't a game without a compelling narrative and good gameplay. Idk why this guy is always so outraged over nothing. Game design includes all the moving parts of the puzzles these days, inlcuding story, soundtrack, combat mechanics, gameplay loop, etc..
It's not really that hard to comprehend a good game design though.
My badI just want to make sure I understand.
I'm a washed up developer, right? 20+ years in the biz, some huge hits, a few profitable titles, and 1 pure miss. I've owned 2 game companies and worked at and with Sony for 2 decades. Was there at the start of the Playstation, worked with them when discussions of PS5 launching were kicking off.
All of that- plus being a human- doesn't allow me the ability to express my views about something I love and know quite a bit about: video games.
You- however- a coward who posts under a fake name- move thru your life under the impression that your thoughts (based on...what? Who the fuck knows) should be given respect and attention, am I right?
Kindly find the biggest piece of broken glass you can find and shove it up your asshole, k? Thx!
I love you!
JAFFE!
Another take from washed-up developer with beard.
Games have evolved since the 90s. There is more meat to them than quriky gameplay.
As far as "game design" goes whatever that means, fortnite would probably win that every year considering it basically revolutionized the multiplayer genre and has by far the most "interactive" gameplay from any game in recent memory. You guys can laugh at that but it's the truth. There's a reason why a multitude of developers tried copying the the fortnite formula and still do today. There's a reason why fortnite basically brought all these normies into gaming.
A movie isn't a movie without compelling meat to it. That meat includes story and production. For a game, a game isn't a game without a compelling narrative and good gameplay. Idk why this guy is always so outraged over nothing. Game design includes all the moving parts of the puzzles these days, inlcuding story, soundtrack, combat mechanics, gameplay loop, etc..
Kindly find the biggest piece of broken glass you can find and shove it up your asshole, k? Thx!
I love you!
I just want to make sure I understand.
I'm a washed up developer, right? 20+ years in the biz, some huge hits, a few profitable titles, and 1 pure miss. I've owned 2 game companies and worked at and with Sony for 2 decades. Was there at the start of the Playstation, worked with them when discussions of PS5 launching were kicking off.
All of that- plus being a human- doesn't allow me the ability to express my views about something I love and know quite a bit about: video games.
You- however- a coward who posts under a fake name- move thru your life under the impression that your thoughts (based on...what? Who the fuck knows) should be given respect and attention, am I right?
Kindly find the biggest piece of broken glass you can find and shove it up your asshole, k? Thx!
I love you!
JAFFE!
To me, game design awards are fine, but to me has no real bearing on gamer fun or interest.I am with Jaffe on this. We used to have game design awards before. I think its very important to have that award because I feel a lot of gamers nowadays just dont understand what makes a game great. I see so much trash that passes for campaigns nowadays. so many companies dont bother with level design at all and just put you in an open world and have you fight a bunch of enemies without really thinking about level design and combat scenarios. I think TLOU2 has fantastic game design, Dreams too, but tlou2 haters just cant understand that despite the game's story issues, the game is ridiculously fun to play and its combat scenarios are probably the best in the third person shooter genre.
Playing demon souls really made me appreciate what we have lost. Every enemy is meticulously placed. Every level has nooks and crannies that some designed muled over and added a risk/reward design to encourage you to explore. I have beaten the game over six times in the last month or so and i still have to change my loadout and really think about how to get past some of the enemy encounters in the game. I am not even talking about boss fights which are awful in 99% of the games nowadays. anything not coming out of japan is pretty much trash which is extremely disappointing since Jaffe himself released a game with fantastic bosses in gow and Cory took them to new heights in GoW2.
People really struggle to understand why games like Death Stranding are great. It's not because of the story or the soundtrack or Guilemo Del Toro's oscar winning performance. It's the game design. It's the fact that kojima and his game designers made just walking in a game an engaging, terrifying and ultimately a fun experience.
This reminds me of destiny's raid Vault of Glass which I still think its the best level in a game this gen. When the game came out, it was lambasted by the reviewers for being boring and weird. it didnt have the story, the characters, the soundtrack and the epic scale of halo, and they trashed it. And yet the game did very well with the actual players who quickly realized that the combat was fantastic and really came into its own when you unlocked better weapons and harder difficulties. the vault of glass was just one brilliant level but the combat design made nightfalls an amazing experience. We need to have game design, level design and combat design awards or just merge them into one award because ultimately, its not the soundtrack or nolan north that makes the game fun to play over and over again. it's the game design.
But that's exactly what awards are. The industry patting themselves on the back. It's true for every industry..To me, game design awards are fine, but to me has no real bearing on gamer fun or interest.
If it is, then I guess Roblox, Minecraft, GTA5, FIFA, COD and Fortnite are all among the best designed games in history because people love them and the user base is off the charts.
You can have a fantastically designed game, but it doesn't mean it's fun, nor gamers have to care about it. So it's one of those awards that's more of an industry pat on the back than for gamers to stare at.
There's awards given out to architects for the coolest/awesomest buildings but to the average person buying a home or company wanting to lease office space or a boring grey building as a warehouse, those awards mean little as the acclaimed product they made is little use for them.
What have you done with your life?Another take from washed-up developer with beard.
I have no idea where you get the idea that I think the only good game journos are ones who have made games.In this thread: Dave Jaffe thinks the only good games journos are ones who have made games??! The fuck am I listening to...
And I want to appreciate his passion but his rage just comes off as very 'grandpa on the porch'. They're still making the kind of games that you like, so why are you so pissed that the kinds of games that some others LIKE MORE are getting made, and yes, possibly championed, above 'old school' games?
For context, almost my entire playtime in the past 10 years is populated with shooters where I skip the cutscenes. I'm not disrespecting the designer's vision on message boards though, I'm just choosing how to spend my time. Unskippable cutscenes in games that arguably don't need them? Yes, I would understand your outrage. Lets just take a breather for a second.
This is one of the dumbest takes of all time.For a game, a game isn't a game without a compelling narrative and good gameplay.
I am with Jaffe on this. We used to have game design awards before. I think its very important to have that award because I feel a lot of gamers nowadays just dont understand what makes a game great. I see so much trash that passes for campaigns nowadays. so many companies dont bother with level design at all and just put you in an open world and have you fight a bunch of enemies without really thinking about level design and combat scenarios. I think TLOU2 has fantastic game design, Dreams too, but tlou2 haters just cant understand that despite the game's story issues, the game is ridiculously fun to play and its combat scenarios are probably the best in the third person shooter genre.
Playing demon souls really made me appreciate what we have lost. Every enemy is meticulously placed. Every level has nooks and crannies that some designed muled over and added a risk/reward design to encourage you to explore. I have beaten the game over six times in the last month or so and i still have to change my loadout and really think about how to get past some of the enemy encounters in the game. I am not even talking about boss fights which are awful in 99% of the games nowadays. anything not coming out of japan is pretty much trash which is extremely disappointing since Jaffe himself released a game with fantastic bosses in gow and Cory took them to new heights in GoW2.
People really struggle to understand why games like Death Stranding are great. It's not because of the story or the soundtrack or Guilemo Del Toro's oscar winning performance. It's the game design. It's the fact that kojima and his game designers made just walking in a game an engaging, terrifying and ultimately a fun experience.
This reminds me of destiny's raid Vault of Glass which I still think its the best level in a game this gen. When the game came out, it was lambasted by the reviewers for being boring and weird. it didnt have the story, the characters, the soundtrack and the epic scale of halo, and they trashed it. And yet the game did very well with the actual players who quickly realized that the combat was fantastic and really came into its own when you unlocked better weapons and harder difficulties. the vault of glass was just one brilliant level but the combat design made nightfalls an amazing experience. We need to have game design, level design and combat design awards or just merge them into one award because ultimately, its not the soundtrack or nolan north that makes the game fun to play over and over again. it's the game design.
I just want to make sure I understand.
I'm a washed up developer, right? 20+ years in the biz, some huge hits, a few profitable titles, and 1 pure miss. I've owned 2 game companies and worked at and with Sony for 2 decades. Was there at the start of the Playstation, worked with them when discussions of PS5 launching were kicking off.
All of that- plus being a human- doesn't allow me the ability to express my views about something I love and know quite a bit about: video games.
You- however- a coward who posts under a fake name- move thru your life under the impression that your thoughts (based on...what? Who the fuck knows) should be given respect and attention, am I right?
Kindly find the biggest piece of broken glass you can find and shove it up your asshole, k? Thx!
I love you!
JAFFE!
I am indeed! It's a live stream on either Dec 30th or 31st. We'll be showing videos from members of their top 3, I'll be going thru my top 10 of the year, and giving out 'awards' (such as they are) for various categories that I think will be fun and/or interesting to debate/discuss/chat about.Are you doing a "2020 GOTY show" davidjaffe ? What are some of you favorite designed games this year?
I replied to your first section which you said something about gamers not understanding what makes good game design. And that games have crap campaigns and shitty enemy placement.But that's exactly what awards are. The industry patting themselves on the back. It's true for every industry..
So the question is why sound design and not game design? Surely no one gives a shit about sound design aside from industry people.
I am indeed! It's a live stream on either Dec 30th or 31st. We'll be showing videos from members of their top 3, I'll be going thru my top 10 of the year, and giving out 'awards' (such as they are) for various categories that I think will be fun and/or interesting to debate/discuss/chat about.
Another good point of discussion from David Jaffe. Given the state of these awards, these games would actually designs themselves to existence with no hard work. Other aspect of the games are more important apparently rather than the core interactivity of the game design.
I have no idea where you get the idea that I think the only good game journos are ones who have made games.
I also have no idea where you get the idea that I don't think story, writing, performance should be awarded in GOTY categories.
In other words, you entire message seems to be based on a false understanding of my views. Maybe I simply communicate poorly. Or maybe you don't pay attention so good.
Also, what's wrong with 'grandpa on the porch'?
1. Dude, watch your own video...at 4:17. It's no fucking leap to say that you're insinuating that because they don't know game design from a firsthand perspective, they're not qualified to speak on the topic.
2. I never said that you said that.
And your views may be better communicated in a long form essay or a longer interactive discussion. Because apparently, they are quite easy to misunderstand.
Great, thought provoking topic and I appreciate you posting though. G'night and good health.
100%. Even tho Starhawk tried it first, it was Fortnite that took fast action shooting and blended it with base building in a way that wasn't super niche and geeky. While you may hate the look of the game and may resent the mega success it has had, to ignore the fact that it brought something fresh to a shooter (a genre that stagnates pretty easily) and executed that idea in a way that even KIDS are able to 'grok' it is certainly worth appreciating at worst and awarding at best.There's nothing wrong with giving a game like Fortnite an award for game design.
BPM (the first ever rhythm shooter I can think of),
It's like Doom and Crypt of the Necrodancer had a love child. Tell me it has a dope ass Opera singing shopkeeper.
Tetsuya Mizuguchi would be proud.
Sorry, don't get the ref. :/
That's not a knock on GAF. I think it's genuinely difficult to comprehend. We're not educated enough
There's nothing wrong with giving a game like Fortnite an award for game design.
Yea but why do that when you can just give every award to TLOU2?
It sure seems the less game making Jaffe does, the louder he gets. Then when he's making a game you never hear from him.
But have they really? If anything, they've devolved IMO. It seems very few people even focus on gameplay anymore...
They absolutely have.
There's no time period in human history where humans would prefer games from the 1990s over the games of today.
Today's games are objectively better.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
I just want to make sure I understand.
I'm a washed up developer, right? 20+ years in the biz, some huge hits, a few profitable titles, and 1 pure miss. I've owned 2 game companies and worked at and with Sony for 2 decades. Was there at the start of the Playstation, worked with them when discussions of PS5 launching were kicking off.
All of that- plus being a human- doesn't allow me the ability to express my views about something I love and know quite a bit about: video games.
You- however- a coward who posts under a fake name- move thru your life under the impression that your thoughts (based on...what? Who the fuck knows) should be given respect and attention, am I right?
Kindly find the biggest piece of broken glass you can find and shove it up your asshole, k? Thx!
I love you!
JAFFE!
So he isn't allowed to voice his opinion just because he achieved more in life than you.It sure seems the less game making Jaffe does, the louder he gets. Then when he's making a game you never hear from him.
The guy's last good game was God of War II 13 years ago on PS2. I guess he needs the spotlight. Looks like he hasn't done anything since Drawn to Death except for a podcast.
In 2014, he announced his first project on his new studio The Bartlet Jones Supernatural Detective Agency called Drawn to Death as a PlayStation 4 exclusive.[7] The game received mixed reviews, and due to the cancellation of an unannounced title, his newfound company shut down a year later.[8]
Since leaving his previous company, Jaffe now primarily live streams his show, Gabbin' + Games, formerly The Jaffe Stream, via Twitch and YouTube. Here, he openly converses with his audience via live chat and Discord about the past and current state of the video game industry, world events, pop culture, politics, metaphysics, the paranormal and existentialism just to name a few.
Works[edit]
- Cliffhanger (1993) (NES, Super NES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Mega CD/Sega CD) - tester
- Skyblazer (1993) (Super NES) - tester
- Mickey Mania (1994) (Super NES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Mega CD/Sega CD)[9] - designer
- Twisted Metal (1995) (PC/PlayStation) - designer
- Twisted Metal 2 (1996) (PC/PlayStation) - game director, producer, and designer
- Twisted Metal: Black (2001) (PS2)
- Kinetica (2001) (PS2)
- God of War (2005) (PS2) - game director
- Twisted Metal: Head-On (2005) (PSP) - game director
- God of War II (2007) (PS2) - creative director
- Calling All Cars! (2007) (PS3) - game director
- Twisted Metal (2012) (PS3) - game director
- Drawn to Death (2017) (PS4) - game director
Thoughtful post. I think at the moment the indie scene is where the most unique game designs are to be found. The AAA scene is slowly evolving into very smilar game experiences, the devs all look at what sold the best and make their own version of that causing the variety to decrease. Comes with the increased dev cost and dev time I guess. Spending 5+ years and 100 million dollars on something unique you actually don’t have a clue if gamers will even like is obviously scary.I am with Jaffe on this. We used to have game design awards before. I think its very important to have that award because I feel a lot of gamers nowadays just dont understand what makes a game great. I see so much trash that passes for campaigns nowadays. so many companies dont bother with level design at all and just put you in an open world and have you fight a bunch of enemies without really thinking about level design and combat scenarios. I think TLOU2 has fantastic game design, Dreams too, but tlou2 haters just cant understand that despite the game's story issues, the game is ridiculously fun to play and its combat scenarios are probably the best in the third person shooter genre.
Playing demon souls really made me appreciate what we have lost. Every enemy is meticulously placed. Every level has nooks and crannies that some designed muled over and added a risk/reward design to encourage you to explore. I have beaten the game over six times in the last month or so and i still have to change my loadout and really think about how to get past some of the enemy encounters in the game. I am not even talking about boss fights which are awful in 99% of the games nowadays. anything not coming out of japan is pretty much trash which is extremely disappointing since Jaffe himself released a game with fantastic bosses in gow and Cory took them to new heights in GoW2.
People really struggle to understand why games like Death Stranding are great. It's not because of the story or the soundtrack or Guilemo Del Toro's oscar winning performance. It's the game design. It's the fact that kojima and his game designers made just walking in a game an engaging, terrifying and ultimately a fun experience.
This reminds me of destiny's raid Vault of Glass which I still think its the best level in a game this gen. When the game came out, it was lambasted by the reviewers for being boring and weird. it didnt have the story, the characters, the soundtrack and the epic scale of halo, and they trashed it. And yet the game did very well with the actual players who quickly realized that the combat was fantastic and really came into its own when you unlocked better weapons and harder difficulties. the vault of glass was just one brilliant level but the combat design made nightfalls an amazing experience. We need to have game design, level design and combat design awards or just merge them into one award because ultimately, its not the soundtrack or nolan north that makes the game fun to play over and over again. it's the game design.
Thoughtful post. I think at the moment the indie scene is where the most unique game designs are to be found. The AAA scene is slowly evolving into very smilar game experiences, the devs all look at what sold the best and make their own version of that causing the variety to decrease. Comes with the increased dev cost and dev time I guess. Spending 5+ years and 100 million dollars on something unique you actually don’t have a clue if gamers will even like is obviously scary.