Imtjnotu
Member
It's not hardware limited to 32.
currently it does :
32gb/s
444 chroma
4K/60hz
That's not even enough to saturate the full 32.
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What are the actual chances Sony will support VRR over HDMI 2.0?
- Thread starter Dust-by-Monday
- Start date
currently it does :
32gb/s
444 chroma
4K/60hz
That's not even enough to saturate the full 32.
Jigga117
Member
Yet I have asked you to provide a link of them stating this because since the launch of the PS5 when has Sony confirmed about it being only 32Gbps? They haven't discussed anything about the bandwidth in general which is why I keep asking where are you getting your info and if Sony stated this how come it isn't common knowledge with all of us? Where is the link they stated this is what I initially asked and you have spun off in 4 different directions about whats "capable"
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Good lord
You asked me for evidence of it being capped, the evidence is the fact that is is certified to support content that requires a bandwidth higher than 32gb
Please don't tell me you want a link saying it uses the HDMI 2.1 standard or something daft like that
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Jigga117
Member
Good lord. Where did I say it can't do 4k@60 444? You qouted my post and now your claiming it ISN'T 32Gbps when we know it is. Notice the chart below. Notice the bandwidth needed to do what you just stated and notice the bandwidth needed it doesn't do which it even states in the settings.
Jigga117
Member
Whenever your ready to send a link about them updating the bandwidth. This isn't hard. Your the one who claimed they are updating the bandwidth. Not once did I say it wasn't 2.1 and everyone can see by the post. If you don't really know just say that and don't bullshit otherwise link where Sony says "an update is coming".
48Gbps is not the standard it is just simply the max it currently can do for 2.1. The minimum of HDMI 2.1 is above 18Gbps which is the max of HDMI 2.0b.
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Rikkori
Member
Sony has been surprisingly incompetent both with their TVs & the PS5 still not getting VRR. No idea why it's given them such trouble considering we've had Freesync & Gsync for many years now, and Samsung TVs having added Freesync many years ago as well. I guess they just don't give a fuck.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I'll spell this out for you
You brought up the bandwidth limit to compare with the "full" RDNA 2 feature set which are hardware limitations
I'm telling you the bandwidth limit is a software cap, and can be upped using a firmware update and is not related to RDNA 2 at all
You wanted evidence that it's a software cap, I provided you the evidence
You denied that evidence and moved the goalposts
Do you get it yet?
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Jigga117
Member
Never claimed it had anything to do with RDNa2 and I responded with saying exactly that. You claimed Sony said it is going to upgraded with a software patch and I have been asking this whole time where is the link they stated this.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
This is why it's important to read. I told you multiple posts ago that they might never update the bandwidth.
They'd be open for a lawsuit, of course, but it's still possible. My argument from the start was that it was a software cap and can be upped. We both knwo you thought otherwise since you questioned why they would cap it in the first place
Care to explain why you bothered to bring up the bandwidth cap then?
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Imtjnotu
Member
Okay girl calm down.Good lord. Where did I say it can't do 4k@60 444? You qouted my post and now your claiming it ISN'T 32Gbps when we know it is. Notice the chart below. Notice the bandwidth needed to do what you just stated and notice the bandwidth needed it doesn't do which it even states in the settings.
What I'm saying is the system itself is software locked at 32gb/s. The hdmi controller itself is capable of the full 48.
And all I'm saying is that the ps5 does full 12 bit at 444.
Why are you so upset over a forum post lol
Physiognomonics
Member
Sure, but when? I just want to remind people that PS4 OS got folders about 3 years after its release. 3 years. Even the freaking 3DS OS had folders at launch.
ZywyPL
Banned
Close to none, they already struggle to add VRR to their HDMI 2.1 TVs and PS5, which is a basic feature for this standard, so I can't imagine them being able to add it to HDMI 2.0 displays. Sony's aproach is more like "go buy our newest TV that has this feature" instead, which is one of the reasons they've been slowly losing market to LG and Samsung, especially in gamers eyes.
Gordon Freeman
Member
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10...s-xs-integrates-full-amd-rdna-2-architecture/
This is from pre-launch in October. Series S/X are the only next gen consoles with the full RDNA2 architecture. Sony hasn’t said anything to counter this after 8 months.
I am only speculating if this is why the PS5 is behind on VRR and a DLSS alternative but I am sure lacking that architecture does not help.
Clearly there are issues behind the scenes. It took them 6 months to get external storage working for PS4 games on PS5. The slot for the SSD expansion was promised in December 2020/January 2021 to be activated and still nothing 6 months later. VRR is missing 7 months later. No mention of a DLSS alternative.
I am only speculating as to why but it’s clear there are issues keeping up. It may have nothing to do with the RDNA2 stuff but I wouldn’t discount it entirely.
This is from pre-launch in October. Series S/X are the only next gen consoles with the full RDNA2 architecture. Sony hasn’t said anything to counter this after 8 months.
I am only speculating if this is why the PS5 is behind on VRR and a DLSS alternative but I am sure lacking that architecture does not help.
Clearly there are issues behind the scenes. It took them 6 months to get external storage working for PS4 games on PS5. The slot for the SSD expansion was promised in December 2020/January 2021 to be activated and still nothing 6 months later. VRR is missing 7 months later. No mention of a DLSS alternative.
I am only speculating as to why but it’s clear there are issues keeping up. It may have nothing to do with the RDNA2 stuff but I wouldn’t discount it entirely.
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VRR has nothing to do with the GPU.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
They’ve been losing market share in TVs because of the race to zero, not really because of features. The Koreans started that and now they see the Chinese doing it to them. I miss the days of focusing on premium quality electronics and other products rather than our current disposable age. The same the goes for basically everything from clothes to furniture and houses. I’d say that the big exception is vehicles.
SLB1904
Banned
returnal renders internally at 1080p. and it looks sharp as hell. i dont know what they are doing but is crazy.
i need to know the origin of this fanfiction
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Blond
Banned
You do realize that the only reason Xbox and Samsung has it is because that 2.0 port was custom made for that purpose right? It doesn't at all support it over 2.0 on anything but supported Samsung TVs
Gordon Freeman
Member
I literally posted it above.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
But Xbox works with any freesync capable display. Not just samsung. Why wouldn't Sony do the same thing?
Edit: Xbox works with any freesync display that allows freesync to work over HDMI. My display does freesync over HDMI and it's not a samsung. I know this because I used to use it on my PC with HDMI and FreeSync worked great.
I have an ASUS VG289Q by the way.
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Jigga117
Member
Your having a difficult time reading so calling me a girl works for you let that out little man. I posted about the capability and you posted some bs about 4k@60 that’s been available since HDMI 2.0. Since it is hard for you to follow. I stated the PS5 AND the Xbox Series cannot do 4k@120hz 12bit. Not one person said it can’t do it at 4k@60hz.
I DID state the PS5 cannot do 4k@120hz 444 10bit hdr when the Xbox can and that is a fact we already know. So instead of trying to talk shit about people being upset and actually have a conversation slow down and take time to reeeeeaadddd this response
Blond
Banned
Because Freesync is a different technology altogether vs HDMI 2.1 where adaptive sync is built into the hardware in a fashion similar to that of Gsync but over HDMI not DisplayPort.
There hasn't been a port to FreeBSD created by AMD yet for it to work on Playstation, MacOS uses Nvidias Gsync to support Freesync if you have a dedicated GPU. Being that Xbox basically runs Windows in a locked down fashion it's easier to port to the OS than it would be implement onto Playstation.
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
Who cares if FreeSync is a different technology. Both Sony and Microsoft use AMD in their consoles and since FreeSync is an AMD technology, then surely they could get it working on PS5 as well. Why do you NEED HDMI 2.1 to do VRR when PCs and XBoxes have had it for literally years?
Why does the PS5 work on anything other than a Sony TV? I mean, if they really wanna sell their TVs, then they could make it so you need a matching TV to match your Sony console.
There are only a few HDMI 2.1 monitors out there right now and I'm not even sure those will work with the new tech because they're still advertised as FreeSync.
Jigga117
Member
PS5 VRR doesn’t work on any tv not just Sony. Is that what you were implying about when you say it works on any tv other than Sony?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
I mean why doesn't Sony require a Sony TV in order to play their PS5 at all? I mean, if it's all about selling TVs instead of bringing the VRR technology to perfectly capable TVs built in the last 5 years or so.
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Blond
Banned
I swear to God people love ignoring everything you type just to start a fight on the internet.
- Freesync: Proprietary software but free to license for your devices, not as good as Gsync but hey, it's free
- Freesync being a different technology is the very basis for this entire argument, it's why you're replying
- For the software portion the ports are only Available for Windows and Linux
- AMD has yet to create a port for freeBSD, freeBSD is completely different from that of Linux, and Sony cannot create a port of propietary software they don't own
- HDMI 2.1 can do VRR from a hardware standpoint with the only portion being that you have to activate it on the devices themselves, this is where Sony comes in
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recursive
Member
I think the chart he/she posted pretty much summed it up. He/she must not have read that 8k 60 hz requires 40Gbps and above..
Jigga117
Member
Never said it couldn’t. Not sure what your point is with the chart that I did post and I am aware of the capabilities but the PS5 is 32Gbps so since you pointed out that it requires 40Gbps not sure why your pointing out the requirement about it when the Xbox is more than likely able to do it since it is 40Gbps
Jigga117
Member
It isn’t my fault you assumed me mentioning to another post that you thought I was relating that to RDNA2
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
So are you going to explain why you randomly brought up the bandwidth cap then or can we end this here?
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recursive
Member
Not sure what your point is. If ps5 can support 8k 60hz it by default can support a higher bandwidth, per your "evidence." Just take a knee and move on.
Venuspower
Member
Well... you do not need 40 Gbps for 8K@60. Just take a look at DisplayPort 1.4.
DSC is the magic word. In other words: If you are using DSC 24 Gbps would be enough for 8K@60@10Bit@444.
Regarding the 32 Gbps topic: It looks like some people have already forgotten how Sony implemented HDMI on the PS4.
With PS4 Sony went a really strange way by using a DP => HDMI Converter chip from Panasonic. This chip can be seen on every photo of
a PS4 motherboard. Why does it matter for PS5? Simple answer: PS5 is using an updated chip that does the same thing. Most likely a DisplayPort 1.4 => HDMI 2.1 converter from Panasonic Nuvoton. This chip can be seen on the PS5 mainboard.
Now guess what the maximum bandwidth of DisplayPort 1.4 is? Spoiler: It is 32 Gbps.
This should explain why PS5 is only outputting at 32 Gbps. And it should also explain why PS5 most likely won't be able to go higher
than 32 Gbps. But as I mentioned earlier: 32 Gbps is no problem at all (at least if your 8K TV has support for DSC). The only thing Sony has to do now is to enable DSC. Which should not be that hard. But we are talking about Sony. It probably is hard for them. But sooner or later they will add this feature.
A few concluding words regarding HDMI 2.1 and DSC in general: DSC will be a really important factor during the next few years. Especially when "HDMI 2.1" will be introduced into lower end TVs/AVRs/Soundbars etc.. This is because 40 Gbps/48 Gbps chipsets are expensive at the moment. Which is why some manufacturers will use lower-tier-chipsets that only support 24 Gbps. But they need a DSC compatible source in order to achive the higher bandwidth. Remember Yamahas lower end AVRs from 2020 with multiple 8K inputs? Yes. Those AVRs are in fact using a 24 Gbps chipset. However, thanks to the HDMI 2.1 bug Yamaha will replace the whole HDMI board and replace it with a HDMI board that has support for a higher bandwidth. So this should not be an issue. Just keep in mind to look for stuff like "8K60AB, 4K120AB" in the product specifications. If the technical specs only mention 8K60B/4K120B this means that the device is using a low end chipset that requires DSC. (A = uncompressed, AB = compressed and uncompressed, B = compressed). But this is getting OT now.
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Imtjnotu
Member
No one is talking shit why are you so mad
Jigga117
Member
You may need to look at the chart again. The PS5 as we know today is 32Gbps. The max resolution and FPS for the bandwidth is 8k@30 4:2:0 not. The minimum requirement for 8k@60 for HDMI is 40.1Gbps. So as of now the PS5 doesn’t support 8k@60
Jigga117
Member
If the PS5 is capped by you saying it is software because Sony has not even address on record about it being 32Gbps. So that’s why I keep asking where your getting that for a “fact” it is software capped.
Denon and Marantz had to offer adaptor to fix the 4k@120hz for Xbox Series X and GPUs. Yet software didn’t fix that issue. You and others are only the only ones saying something that has not been officially stated by Sony themselves. That’s why I didn’t accept it being fact just because you keep repeating it is.
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
Sony could work with AMD and get it working on the PS5 though. That was my point. Just because it hasn't been done on PC, doesn't mean it can't be done on PS5.
Jigga117
Member
The thing is to work on it was the same time like everything else in the development process was to work on this just like they worked on the custom cpu/GPU. They knew this then. It isn’t something they weren’t aware they just wasn’t upfront about it. It took sites like Hdtvtest to confirm along with people hooking up new PS5 systems to displays like LG OLEDs to learn about the limited HDMI and features
Hawk269
Member
It is not standard on HDMI 2.1. Ask any person that bought a Sony TV that were made in 2020 or 2021. NONE OF THEM support VRR. Even the mighty flagship A90J that is $3800 for the 65" version is suppose to get VRR in Winter 2021. Prior to the release of the A90J Sony was saying Spring 2021 then they changed it right before launch to Winter 2021. Owners of the Sony 900H which was the most popular 2020 Sony TV were told it was coming as a Firmware update and a year and a half later they still don't have it.
Jigga117
Member
Sony’s incompetence doesn’t change the fact that in fact VRR is a standard feature of HDMI 2.1
This isn’t the first time devices omit features that should or could be available but choose not or can’t support.
2015 Vizio M series had one HDMI 2.0b port out of four and can do 1080p@120hz but can’t do 1440p30/60/120hz. The series had an 8-bit panel which contribute to the limitation. The Samsung Qled of the same year had the same port and could do 1440p, VRR and had a 10bit panel.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I'm getting tired of repeating myself here. If the PS5 is physically capped at 32GBs then Sony has lied about it's HDMI 2.1 compliance. As i've i've said before, it's your job to prove that they're lying
The HDMI 2.1 spec supports 4K@120hz for TVs and compatible (keyword) av recievers. The adapter was a solution for the incompatible ones. Not the same thing. Try and keep up
Now, are you going to answer why you brought up bandwidth or are you just going to keep dodging
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Venuspower
Member
Nope. They never stated that they will support uncompressed 8k@60 .
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
So you think the 32gb is just a software cap then?
Venuspower
Member
No. Check my other post:
What are the actual chances Sony will support VRR over HDMI 2.0?
You do realize the PS5s HDMI 2.1 is only 32Gbps right? It is why it can't do 4k@120hz 444 HDR 10bit It's not hardware limited to 32. currently it does : 32gb/s 444 chroma 4K/60hz That's not even enough to saturate the full 32.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
No. Check my other post:
What are the actual chances Sony will support VRR over HDMI 2.0?
You do realize the PS5s HDMI 2.1 is only 32Gbps right? It is why it can't do 4k@120hz 444 HDR 10bit It's not hardware limited to 32. currently it does : 32gb/s 444 chroma 4K/60hz That's not even enough to saturate the full 32.www.neogaf.com
HDMI requires 40gb for 8K 60Hz. That's the required specification for complaince
DisplayPort is a different technology to HDMI in case that wasn't obvious
Venuspower
Member
No, it does not. As I said: DSC is the key. With DSC 8K@60 will fit into a 24 Gbps bandwidth.
Furthermore, there are no mandatory features in the HDMI specs.
it does not matter. Bandwidth is bandwidth.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
DSC is already factored into the specification, and 8K 60 still requires 40gb
Yes, 8K 60HZ is a requirement. It's specifically listed.
Venuspower
Member
Yes. DSC is a part of the features manufacturers can support.
No, 8K@60 does not require 40 Gbps if it is compressed.
Maybe you should take a look at this table.
What are the actual chances Sony will support VRR over HDMI 2.0?
You do realize the PS5s HDMI 2.1 is only 32Gbps right? It is why it can't do 4k@120hz 444 HDR 10bit It's not hardware limited to 32. currently it does : 32gb/s 444 chroma 4K/60hz That's not even enough to saturate the full 32.
Now take a look at 8K@48-60p:
10 Bit@420: 40.1 Gbps
12 Bit@420: 48.11 Gbps
These are the values for a signal that is not compressed. No DSC is taking place. This is confirmed by "Ultra" in the column "Speed".
Now take a look at the other stuff in the category 8K/48-60p. You will notice that these values exceed 48 Gbps (those values are all uncompressed btw). Which is why there are marked with "Ultra#". As the description for "Ultra#" says: In these cases DSC will be used in order to get below 48 Gbps.
By the way. Do not get confused by "4:2:0/4:2:2" and the higher bandwidth. In this case a 4:2:0 signal is tunnled in a 4:2:2 container. Which is why the required bandwidth is higher than a true 4:2:0 signal.
Going back to PS5: 8K@60 will work just fine on PS5 even though the chipset is limited at 32 Gbps. But Sony has to use DSC in order to fit the >40 Gbps uncompressed signals into their bandwidth limitation of 32 Gbps. As I mentioned earlier. This is all fine and can be done (DP 1.4 is doing the same). The HDMI Forum does not require manufacturers to use a specific bandwidth nor are manufacturers obligated to use an uncompressed signal. In fact manufacturers are free to mention HDMI 2.1 in their spec sheet as soon as they offer one single feature of the HDMI 2.1 specs. Remember XBox One X? Microsoft promoted there device as "HDMI 2.1" even though the only features they supported were ALLM and HDMI VRR.
Edit:
HDMI 2.1 Feature - 8K60 / 4K120 Resolution
'HDMI 2.1' '8K', 8KTV, 8k@60, 8K Gaming, 8K Broadcast, 8K NHK, 8K Olympics,, HDMI 2.1b
Any more questions?
No, it is not. I do not know where you are getting your information from.
But they are wrong.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
To piggyback off my post earlier, I should also note that I have an LG CX so VRR and G/Freesync are all on the table but a well optimized game runs great regardless.
That's not some damage control. That's been my take since people like to make it into this end all feature to win a bullet point argument with people like me who don't care as long as the games are optimized and with console games now it's more the case than ever as far as 1at party stuff Sony makes.
It's not all perfect but it's good enough and he's, I welcome the feature if it comes while surviving these trying times!
That's not some damage control. That's been my take since people like to make it into this end all feature to win a bullet point argument with people like me who don't care as long as the games are optimized and with console games now it's more the case than ever as far as 1at party stuff Sony makes.
It's not all perfect but it's good enough and he's, I welcome the feature if it comes while surviving these trying times!
