Batiman
Banned
For real. She’s one of my favourite characters in the books too. Probably because of how much of bitch she can be. Doesn’t take shit from no one. Boss
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wheel of Time
- Thread starter AJUMP23
- Start date
Nankatsu
Member
I legit made an effort to watch this, went as far as episode 5, but damn, talk about a damn woke show. 90% of the time is women bashing on man and trying to prove they're damn superior.
As far as I understand the books go into this route too, but isn't forced down like they do in the show.
It's like Brie Larsson is directing this thing. Shit lines like "we gotta tame man"...feels super cringe.
I dropped it and don't intend to go back at all.
As far as I understand the books go into this route too, but isn't forced down like they do in the show.
It's like Brie Larsson is directing this thing. Shit lines like "we gotta tame man"...feels super cringe.
I dropped it and don't intend to go back at all.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
But she doesn't know about the Amerlyn Seat's background. And it doesn't really undercut her reason as her mentor STILL was rejected for being "hillbilly"
Edit: WE know the Amerlyn Seat's backstory... Nynaeve doesn't. But her mentor was STILL treated like crap.
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
No. It doesn't spend 95% of the time with women bashing men. The only ones who do that are ... The blonde ugly chick with the Red Ajah and... That's basically it. Nynaeve doesn't. Egwene doesn't. Moiraine doesn't. Literally no one does except MAYBE a couple other Red Ajah.
You're seeing crap that isn't there.
JusticeForAll
Gold Member
I read all the books and I am terribly disappointed by this show. I'm still going to watch the final episode of this season and I will leave it at that.
I still don't understand the need to "diversify" all characters where it is not needed in a universe that is already multicultural in itself.
The casting is off, especially Egwene. The best cast character, imo, is Matt and he already left the show as I understand.
The acting is, for the most part, horrible. The character arcs are ridiculous. While I do understand TV is a different medium than books and some changes are you expected, I believe the choices made here are pretty much always wrong.
And as everybody said before: it all feels rushed, which makes some unnecessary scenes they've added and invented themselves even more jarring.
Pretty much a complete failure.
I still don't understand the need to "diversify" all characters where it is not needed in a universe that is already multicultural in itself.
The casting is off, especially Egwene. The best cast character, imo, is Matt and he already left the show as I understand.
The acting is, for the most part, horrible. The character arcs are ridiculous. While I do understand TV is a different medium than books and some changes are you expected, I believe the choices made here are pretty much always wrong.
And as everybody said before: it all feels rushed, which makes some unnecessary scenes they've added and invented themselves even more jarring.
Pretty much a complete failure.
Last edited:
Mossybrew
Gold Member
Never read these books. I've read a ton of fantasy books but somehow I got the vibe even many years ago that these books were cheap garbage.
Anyway, the show is entertaining enough. Fairly cheesy and derivative for sure. Oh here's a complete LOTR ripoff scene where our heroes escape on a ferry and some dark ghostly screaming dude and his minions can't cross water. Oh here's a dumb as shit ripoff of Roma "Gypsy" culture. Yawn. The "white tower" the "dark lord" yeah I know this stuff is decades old but really? Yet it's still entertaining enough to watch I guess.
Anyway, the show is entertaining enough. Fairly cheesy and derivative for sure. Oh here's a complete LOTR ripoff scene where our heroes escape on a ferry and some dark ghostly screaming dude and his minions can't cross water. Oh here's a dumb as shit ripoff of Roma "Gypsy" culture. Yawn. The "white tower" the "dark lord" yeah I know this stuff is decades old but really? Yet it's still entertaining enough to watch I guess.
Last edited:
Tams
Member
Well, they could have done better.Tams The part with Matt is because the actor left the show due to some type of personal issue. They had to reshoot a bunch of shit and it is very awkward. That is not how the script was supposed to go.
And I don't think having to reshoot stuff was the main reason it was so bad. The poor writing (and acting to a degree) fits in with the whole show so far.
Don't get me wrong, I'm largely enjoying it well enough. But as I said before, it is very 'young adult', which is quite off-putting.
Last edited:
Mossybrew
Gold Member
And it's "young adult" with like 40 year old sensibilities which just feels archaic.
GreenAlien
Member
Amazon Wants Wheel of Time to Span All 14 Books (Plus the Prequel) - IGN
If you're at all aware of Robert Jordan's high fantasy book series, The Wheel of Time, you probably know one thing: it's a long, long series. But Amazon wants to eventually cover the whole thing with its TV adaptation, even the prequel.
Well, let's hope they take criticism for the first season seriously, otherwise there is no way it will last..
Yeah, I don't see them re-casting 70% of the main actors.Amazon Wants Wheel of Time to Span All 14 Books (Plus the Prequel) - IGN
If you're at all aware of Robert Jordan's high fantasy book series, The Wheel of Time, you probably know one thing: it's a long, long series. But Amazon wants to eventually cover the whole thing with its TV adaptation, even the prequel.www.ign.com
Well, let's hope they take criticism for the first season seriously, otherwise there is no way it will last..
Batiman
Banned
? Do you mean in keeping them for that length
LordOfChaos
Member
Ok...I was trying to be optimistic and give lots of leeway for the changes before, but the finale was just something else
LTT and the hundred companions made a last ditch effort to put a stopper on a hole the literal devil was reaching through and yet in this show it seems like the Dragon was being scolded for planning an ill-conceived lark with his buddies in a city that looks like it's never seen a bad day. They didn't touch on the War of the Shadow at all, and also the Tamarlyn Seat calling out the exact downside that actually happened which no one could have predicted, instead of presenting an alternative plan that became impossible with the loss of the Choden Kal access keys like the story actually went.
I know this is a lot to crush down into a show, but like, it just came off as Lews was some fool playing around with a force that had been around forever and no immediate threat, not that they were on the losing end of a long spanning war after accidentally uncorking the DO and were getting desperate for ideas, and we don't know if it wouldn't have worked out if they all worked together, there was ambiguity to it.
This didn't explain any of that well, and seemed to crush everything down to "hurr durr arrogant bad men tried to seal away darkness itself for no reason when everything was perfect before", and that's just not the story. Robert Jordan was always clear. Things are best when both sides work together. The show is making it look like the women were always right and men were always wrong when there was ambiguity to both plans, it may have worked if they worked together.
LTT and the hundred companions made a last ditch effort to put a stopper on a hole the literal devil was reaching through and yet in this show it seems like the Dragon was being scolded for planning an ill-conceived lark with his buddies in a city that looks like it's never seen a bad day. They didn't touch on the War of the Shadow at all, and also the Tamarlyn Seat calling out the exact downside that actually happened which no one could have predicted, instead of presenting an alternative plan that became impossible with the loss of the Choden Kal access keys like the story actually went.
I know this is a lot to crush down into a show, but like, it just came off as Lews was some fool playing around with a force that had been around forever and no immediate threat, not that they were on the losing end of a long spanning war after accidentally uncorking the DO and were getting desperate for ideas, and we don't know if it wouldn't have worked out if they all worked together, there was ambiguity to it.
This didn't explain any of that well, and seemed to crush everything down to "hurr durr arrogant bad men tried to seal away darkness itself for no reason when everything was perfect before", and that's just not the story. Robert Jordan was always clear. Things are best when both sides work together. The show is making it look like the women were always right and men were always wrong when there was ambiguity to both plans, it may have worked if they worked together.
Last edited:
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
6 episodes in now and boy, they really made sure to tick off all the points from the woke checklist, did they?
Ulysses 31
Member
They're preparing you for their take of the coming LotR shows.
Yeah don't get me wrong. I overall like her, but I found her writing in the first book to be too much.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
I was actually thinking the same thing… Well, I never had too much hope for the series anyway.They're preparing you for their take of the coming LotR shows.
It‘s just crazy how much of this stuff seeps into US media these days. Are there really so many people that dig this? I personally only talked to people that were repelled by it so far…
Tams
Member
Last episode absolutely has a diversity quota. Don't tell me it's 'because the world is all mixed up after thousands of years'. That's not why it's like that.
That said, it's not really a problem, just annoying. Problem wise... were to start? A lot of the acting isn't great, there are massive jumps in the story with lots of things just not explained, and the CGI isn't great in many places. You can clearly tell many of the sets are sets, which gives it all a really cheap look.
I have enjoyed it, but it's at best good. There are much better things you can do with your time, even for enjoyment.
That said, it's not really a problem, just annoying. Problem wise... were to start? A lot of the acting isn't great, there are massive jumps in the story with lots of things just not explained, and the CGI isn't great in many places. You can clearly tell many of the sets are sets, which gives it all a really cheap look.
I have enjoyed it, but it's at best good. There are much better things you can do with your time, even for enjoyment.
Last edited:
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
They're preparing you for their take of the coming LotR shows.
You joke, but that's exactly what their Middle-earth show will be like. Pretty much already confirmed.
LordOfChaos
Member
Also that Tsunami...There was an empty beach front, one little girl, and huge cliffs right behind it that would have taken the wave, were the Seanchan just like "fuck this one little girl in particular" lol?
Tams
Member
Lenny Henry as a hobbit and boasting about how the hobbits were diverse on social media?
Yep, confirmed.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I was right! It's set in the far flung future! Not medieval times... They're just agrarian for the most part. They USED to be high tech but... Breaking of the world and all 3000 years ago.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
This show kinda sucked and for some reason the finale felt a lot cheaper and cheesier than most of the show. The whole battle scene was absolutely terrible. Just low level network tv level cheesiness.
I heard the ratings aren’t very good, so I don’t expect it to make enough money for the budget to go up in season 2.
I heard the ratings aren’t very good, so I don’t expect it to make enough money for the budget to go up in season 2.
Pallas
Member
Not sure who you heard that from but the ratings are average to above average, even on Rotten Tomatoes and season 2 is already underway and in production.
Tams
Member
3 and a half stars on the official ratings is technically above average, but incredibly disappointing considering how much it has cost.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Ratings = viewership, not reviews
Tams
Member
'Ratings' means both. It means to assign a score.
That can be subjective in the form of a score, or objective in the form of viewing numbers. Both are a score of popularity.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I'm saying that's what I meant when I said ratings. I read an article that said the ratings weren't very good and they expected better. The article was referring to viewership.
Last edited:
Pallas
Member
And I’ve read an article or articles rather that stated the opposite. I get a lot of readers aren’t exactly thrill with the changes, me personally I was a bit disappointing about Aginor and Bath not being at the season finale.
But the show is gaining viewers, and has a good size active viewership, unless you just think Amazon is lying about the success of the show.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Outside of NeoGAF, anyone I've asked who's watched the show said they enjoyed it and can't wait for more.
Wildebeest
Member
The series kept my attention through the finale, which is something. Reading up on it one scene near the end, which hit a bum note, was odd because the actor playing Mat left halfway through the season. Looking on a reddit for the show the book fans seem a bit grumbly over some things but love other things. The general feeling is they did more right than wrong. People seem to be happy with the quality of the casting in key roles and happy that it is a success and likely to continue.
One thing that got me was, compared to some absolutely ridiculous battles in Game of Thrones, was how the tactics in the finale seemed reasonable. For one moment I thought they were going to have a handful of men charge a horde head on with a defensive wall behind them, in true screen fantasy battle style.
One thing that got me was, compared to some absolutely ridiculous battles in Game of Thrones, was how the tactics in the finale seemed reasonable. For one moment I thought they were going to have a handful of men charge a horde head on with a defensive wall behind them, in true screen fantasy battle style.
Tams
Member
All that matters at the end of the day for its continuation is if it is popular enough.
But things like Love Island and Big Brother (and pretty much every late night US chat show) are popular. Hell, people thought Daisy Ridley was good (when even JJ Abrams called her 'wooden'). My point being, bar Pike and Henney, the cast are not good. And while I respect giving fresh, young blood chances, on something this big and expensive? Even Adam Driver had done quite a bit of acting elsewhere before Star Wars.
Catphish
Member
I didn't hate it, but didn't love it.
The deviation from the books is very hard for me to sit with, because it's so severe. These aren't mild changes. They're significant to drastic. I appreciate that the overall tone and heart seems intact, but I think the story, as it is written, is rich enough that the first book alone could fill three 10-episode seasons. Not that I expect, or even want, that, but the way the story has been truncated in this one 8-episode season seems to me a gross disservice, not only to the fans, but to Jordan himself. Like, if you're really trying to translate a proven fantasy IP like WoT to dethrone GoT, why would you even consider this level of half-assery? You have to be all-in on story and production, and I don't see the showrunners having that level of commitment. Jordan and his work deserve better. Someone(s?) behind the scenes is holding this show back from greatness. Whoever it is needs to get out of the fking way.
I'm willing to withhold judgment until the end of next season. I hope they're just finding their feet, and coming back in earnest next year. We'll see.
If nothing else, the show rekindled my interest in the books, and, having read New Spring and reread the first two books prior to the start of the show, I'll be starting book 3 in the next few days. No matter how the show fares in the end, the books will always be wonderful.
The deviation from the books is very hard for me to sit with, because it's so severe. These aren't mild changes. They're significant to drastic. I appreciate that the overall tone and heart seems intact, but I think the story, as it is written, is rich enough that the first book alone could fill three 10-episode seasons. Not that I expect, or even want, that, but the way the story has been truncated in this one 8-episode season seems to me a gross disservice, not only to the fans, but to Jordan himself. Like, if you're really trying to translate a proven fantasy IP like WoT to dethrone GoT, why would you even consider this level of half-assery? You have to be all-in on story and production, and I don't see the showrunners having that level of commitment. Jordan and his work deserve better. Someone(s?) behind the scenes is holding this show back from greatness. Whoever it is needs to get out of the fking way.
I'm willing to withhold judgment until the end of next season. I hope they're just finding their feet, and coming back in earnest next year. We'll see.
If nothing else, the show rekindled my interest in the books, and, having read New Spring and reread the first two books prior to the start of the show, I'll be starting book 3 in the next few days. No matter how the show fares in the end, the books will always be wonderful.
Last edited:
nightmare-slain
Member
watched the final episode this morning. i enjoyed the season overall and i'm excited for S2. yeah it's different from the books but this is a TV show not a book. speaking of books i'm gonna go start the next one!
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I said I'd drop out, but my wife really wanted us to watch it together. We finally finished last night and fuck me, what a load of tosh. I could go on all day about what I hated, but my main gripes were the awful acting and the dreadful script.
I see people online praise the show, but everyone I know in the real world thought the show was average at best (my wife's feeling after the last episode) or absolute dog shit. Maybe my friend and family group are just out of touch?
I see people online praise the show, but everyone I know in the real world thought the show was average at best (my wife's feeling after the last episode) or absolute dog shit. Maybe my friend and family group are just out of touch?
Wildebeest
Member
I struggled through all one million hours of game of thrones even though I thought it was dull and brain numbingly stupid, and I also thought the first book was also as exciting as drinking cold bath water. I've watched more episodes of new millennium Dr Who than I want to think about, just in the hope that there will be the occasional glimmer of something genuinely brilliant in it. Don't talk to me about suffering through crappy TV. I don't see this show as bad as either.
Last edited:
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
no. Facebook. Frak Resetera!
Hari Seldon
Member
I watched the finale last night and then started watching some of the extras (there are a ton of extras to watch).
My overall review for Season 1 is thus:
There are a few ways to do an adaptation. One way, i.e. LoTR movies, is to do it perfectly with some changes here and there but otherwise the new work essentially replaces the original one. Another way is to do it like the first 5 seasons of GoT where you have the actual author involved essentially editing their own work. What WoT did is basically make a complete alternate reality from the source material. It doesn't replace or augment anything. It is entirely its own thing. And I'm fine with this. They have changed so much that I am fine with more changes because at this point why not? It deviates so much that there is no point in getting angry that it is deviating haha.
As far as how good it is on its own, I enjoyed it. The WoT lore is interesting enough, even a fanfic version of it, to carry a show. The show had some great on-location shots, for the most part the cast is good, and the monsters are definitely great. It is fantasy with a ridiculous amount of lore behind it, that alone puts it ahead of most shows in my mind. Yeah something like Succession will win awards, and Marvel shows will be technically perfect. But at the end of the day Succession is a soap opera and Marvel is shallow as fuck. Neither are as deep a show as this, and there is still not that many of this type of deep fantasy shows around.
For the bad things, I'm indifferent to the channeling CGI as I have no idea how to make it better but also detailed enough to show what is going on. I think all of the bad things about the show can be fixed, namely the lighting and pacing, and of course an actor to play Matt. Judging by the extras COVID caused a lot of chaos as well for the production. Hopefully the show finds is groove for season 2 just like Witcher and GoT did.
My overall review for Season 1 is thus:
There are a few ways to do an adaptation. One way, i.e. LoTR movies, is to do it perfectly with some changes here and there but otherwise the new work essentially replaces the original one. Another way is to do it like the first 5 seasons of GoT where you have the actual author involved essentially editing their own work. What WoT did is basically make a complete alternate reality from the source material. It doesn't replace or augment anything. It is entirely its own thing. And I'm fine with this. They have changed so much that I am fine with more changes because at this point why not? It deviates so much that there is no point in getting angry that it is deviating haha.
As far as how good it is on its own, I enjoyed it. The WoT lore is interesting enough, even a fanfic version of it, to carry a show. The show had some great on-location shots, for the most part the cast is good, and the monsters are definitely great. It is fantasy with a ridiculous amount of lore behind it, that alone puts it ahead of most shows in my mind. Yeah something like Succession will win awards, and Marvel shows will be technically perfect. But at the end of the day Succession is a soap opera and Marvel is shallow as fuck. Neither are as deep a show as this, and there is still not that many of this type of deep fantasy shows around.
For the bad things, I'm indifferent to the channeling CGI as I have no idea how to make it better but also detailed enough to show what is going on. I think all of the bad things about the show can be fixed, namely the lighting and pacing, and of course an actor to play Matt. Judging by the extras COVID caused a lot of chaos as well for the production. Hopefully the show finds is groove for season 2 just like Witcher and GoT did.
Catphish
Member
I read it after 3, but I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s best after 5.If I'm reading the books, at what point should I start New Spring? I'm assuming reading it prior to Eye of the World is a rookie move and will spoil some fun
No interest in the Amazon show personally
Thanks
This is kind of where I'm at with it. Don't love it, don't hate it. The changes are what they are. I don't love or hate them. Some are head scratching. I am hopeful for next season and will see how it plays out.
sw0mp_d0nk3y
Member
I was hoping this show would exceed my low expectations, but it unfortunately did not. Not a fan of the changes made to plot and characters, the rushed pace, the poor writing, and poor character development. Definitely not a fan of the abysmal effects that ruined the finale. Apparently they couldn't use real actors for the trollocs because of covid, making the final battle a cheap looking disaster compared to the battles in the early episodes, which were pretty good.
The show wasn't all bad, and there were some good scenes as well as amazing landscapes and sets. This was the Moraine and Lan story, which was done fairly well, but sacrificed any time and investment in the main characters. I will definitely keep watching next season, and hope for some improvement.
The show wasn't all bad, and there were some good scenes as well as amazing landscapes and sets. This was the Moraine and Lan story, which was done fairly well, but sacrificed any time and investment in the main characters. I will definitely keep watching next season, and hope for some improvement.
I was thinking the exact thing!
It was a bizarre power display to say the least. I can only think that perhaps they were worried she was the Dragon Reborn waiting to fuck them all up so they made a preemptive strike
JBat
Member
The finale kinda sucked. The introduction of the Seanchan was hilarious. Someone already said it but fuck that little girl in particular lol. I didn't see any leashes. What are they going to replace them with?
Did I miss something or have they dropped the concepts of Saidin and Saidar? With men and women using to same flaver of the one power the whole tainting/corrupting of the male half makes less sense.
I really don't like how the show uses the magic in general. In the books it requires knowledge and skill. A lot of the time it is treated as a science with experimentation following the scientific method. Hell, it's most of the reason why the White Tower sucks and aes sedai look down on wilders (another concept the show seems to be cutting). In the show the user just points it at something and it manifests how ever the show needs it to.
I'm good with changing the source material but at least make those changes make sense.
This just solidified my feeling that TV writers just aren't very good writers.
I will probably keep watching just because I'm a fan of the books and am morbidly curious how this will turn out
Did I miss something or have they dropped the concepts of Saidin and Saidar? With men and women using to same flaver of the one power the whole tainting/corrupting of the male half makes less sense.
I guess this points to Aran'gar being removed because now the whole dark one putting a man's soul into a female body and still using the male half of the power pointless. Would also probably be considered some sort of phobic by todays audiences lol
I'm good with changing the source material but at least make those changes make sense.
This just solidified my feeling that TV writers just aren't very good writers.
I will probably keep watching just because I'm a fan of the books and am morbidly curious how this will turn out
Very much this. If they could have stayed focused on one POV, be it Moraine or Rand, then I think they could have serviced the other characters enough through interactions with the POV main character and kept the entire show more focused. Lots of older shows were like this, but the current split focus multiple storyline thing is big in prestige TV so here we are.
LordOfChaos
Member
Yeah I don't get the addition that four of them could have been the Dragon...Isn't the big risk that the Dragon goes mad because of the taint on Saidin, how would that work with a unisex one power? I gueeeeess with later WoT book resurrections there's precedent that you can be reincarnated as a woman and use the male power and vice versa, but that seems complicated to explain for a show that's really squishing everything down already.
Also I wasn't sure if they were implying the Sa'Angreal was unisex...Also I guess upgrading it to Sa may be dropping the distinction, but that's fine I guess, I did think it was weird that Sa'Angreal were Angreal but arbitrarily more powerful.
The 100x scaling she mentioned does make it seem like the show will go for anime power scaling though, and this is not one of the more powerful Sa'Angreal.