If they are gonna cast random ethnicities at least try to get them to maintain a consistent accent to demonstrate origin instead. The asian king of Fal Dara is doing a more chinese accent sorta like what Lan is doing while his aes sedai sister has a cultured british accent. But I think they are both danish (Lans actor is american) so I think they are both faking an accent. I think most of this cast is faking their accent and I'd rather they agree on local specific accents to emphasize place since they aren't doing it with ethnicity. The Expanse did this much better. Hell, I couldn't even tell who Lan was having dinner with, was that his dad and brother? Sister? It's almost impossible to trace family because everyone is mixed up (though this gets cleared up in a later scene).
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Wheel of Time
- Thread starter AJUMP23
- Start date
LordOfChaos
Member
Lan's whole family was killed, this was also brought up in the show. Fal Dara is a separate kingdom than Malkier and he wouldn't share an accent with the king, the family was of one of the men who saved Lan and ran away during the fall. I would take it the more posh accent is to show she went to the White Tower and studied even though she dropped out.
I'm not saying they get accent consistency right all the time but some of these specific criticisms don't make sense knowing the source material, and they did explain the last of his family and men who saved him bit in the show. But yes they're not perfect about this and clearly a lot of first language 'Murica speakers faking an accent, and I do see that some of the children moms and dads make don't make sense, but otherwise if you think about a far future America or something destroyed and set 3000 years in the future, some of the inherent diversity makes sense, that wouldn't go away.
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nightmare-slain
Member
so excited for next weeks final episode. i've been loving the show and wish they gave us a few more episodes. i bought book 2 so will be starting that soon.
My point was that if you were going to have color wheel casting then you need to REALLY double down on costuming, accents, or script to maintain clarity on relationships. When asian Lan walks into a city and is welcomed by all the subordinates and then meets an asian king and princess(?) while surrounded by non asian ministers and soldiers, the natural connection is that they are related, especially when in an earlier ep Lan does a ritual and refers to "my people". Then he meets and warmly greets an older asian man, a younger asian man, and some seemingly unrelated women and kids, it gets confusing at the time. Sure, they eventually circle back to explain it, but I feel like they could have made it more apparent that Lan is/isn't a native of this city and is/isn't a blood relative of these people with either more conscientious casting or compensation in other ways via accent, dialect, costuming, or specific script dialogue anticipating that audiences will struggle with this stuff given the casting choices.
Plenty of shows spend the time to make sure there are lot of indicators to help the audience with complex relationships. How often were you confused about who was in which House in Game of Thrones? In a european based thriller how often is nationality indicated by accent? In The Expanse a belter is immediately obvious via tattoos or their specific speech patterns. It CAN be done, in WoT they should have spent more time considering these issues during production IMHO. Instead everyone seems to be shooting for the same vague brit accent and end up flailing around pretty spectacularly.
Casting works well in things like The Flash (CW show). You don't need constant reminders that Barry was adopted and that Iris isn't his biological sister, the casting makes it obvious. Same with the little black girl in the most recent Hawkeye ep, she is clearly adopted (and by lore she would have to be) and the dialogue about it is reinforcement only. But in WoT I find the color wheel casting to be poorly supported by the rest of the production, makes me very nervous when more Aiel show up, or other more exotic folks.
Plenty of shows spend the time to make sure there are lot of indicators to help the audience with complex relationships. How often were you confused about who was in which House in Game of Thrones? In a european based thriller how often is nationality indicated by accent? In The Expanse a belter is immediately obvious via tattoos or their specific speech patterns. It CAN be done, in WoT they should have spent more time considering these issues during production IMHO. Instead everyone seems to be shooting for the same vague brit accent and end up flailing around pretty spectacularly.
Casting works well in things like The Flash (CW show). You don't need constant reminders that Barry was adopted and that Iris isn't his biological sister, the casting makes it obvious. Same with the little black girl in the most recent Hawkeye ep, she is clearly adopted (and by lore she would have to be) and the dialogue about it is reinforcement only. But in WoT I find the color wheel casting to be poorly supported by the rest of the production, makes me very nervous when more Aiel show up, or other more exotic folks.
It makes even less sense really. Think about. What would happen in 3000 years if we lost technology and our ability of mass, fast travel with planes and cars and such? We'd get isolated again, which is what happens in this show. Many smaller hamlets and villages with isolated communities.
Now say you have a community that is as diverse as it gets. You have some europeans of various decent, some africans, natives americans, middle easterns, chinese and indians, and maybe some islanders for good measure. Do you think all of those in the span of 3000 years would stick exclusively to their own people? No, of course not. There would be intermingling and new ethnicities would pop up as a result, and in turn we'd end up with populations that would again become fairly homogenous and have distinct features. This is what would happen in any smaller place. Large cities? For sure, lots of diversity, because people from smaller places travel to bigger places. But it's much rarer for citizens of big cities to go settle down in rural areas.
So yeah, I think you're dead wrong on that.
LordOfChaos
Member
Where do you propose hiring an entire cast of ethnically unclear people man, lol
In the books it's appropriately all mixed up. Races with some traits from several nationalities that are hard to directly place. But you can't exactly do that with a wide show cast.
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No, but you can be consistent in showing that het, this place isn't like that other place you just visited on the other end of the world. Cast indians in two rivers, eastern asians in Fal Dara. It's not hard to do. An easy first step would be to just not cast any white guys in a place like Fal Dara. Big places like Tar Valon makes sense with the diversity, it's the small locations that are just downright silly.
It's not a crime to take sensible world building seriously. The people behind this show just clearly demonstrate they either don't care about that, or they have no clue whatsoever how this stuff works. There's just so much weird stuff that makes no sense, and I start thinking about it and forget about the story for a little while. Like Lan's adopted family. What's that there? Two asians of different asian ethnicities have an african child, now is that an adopted child, or is it supposed to be their biological child? I start wondering because that very situation happens a lot in this show. It's just silly nonsense, and I can't help but shake my head at it.
I_D
Member
This show is so frustrating.
It's like Wheel of Time on fast-forward.
Literally every damn scene in this entire show should be like 25% longer. There's hardly any build-up to any scenes, and the characters almost never have any long conversations. The result is that we get these really weird encounters between characters; like when Rand interrupted Loial with something like "We get it" as like a funny joke between friends, but it didn't make any sense because Loial hasn't actually rambled at all, yet. And they also haven't become friends, yet.
Mat is gone, and Moraine has deemed him naturally-evil, but we never actually got to see him do anything evil. He was corrupted by the dagger in like 5 minutes, and then Moraine healed him with the flick of a wrist.
Seriously; damn near every scene, and every element of the plot, move along way too damn quickly.
Nynaeve goes from totally calm to SUPER SAIYAN in the span of literally two seconds, in this episode.
It's just frustrating. The writing itself isn't great, but is passable. The acting is quite good; especially given the script they're working with. The special effects are solid. The set design is solid.
But the directing, or at least the pacing of the directing, is just downright bad.
I'm also not a fan of the show's art-style. It should be FAR more gritty than it currently is. But I've accepted that, given that this is a PG-13 show.
The rating is not an excuse for the shitty directing, though.
Nonetheless, I will keep watching it. How could I not support Wheel of Time?
It's like Wheel of Time on fast-forward.
Literally every damn scene in this entire show should be like 25% longer. There's hardly any build-up to any scenes, and the characters almost never have any long conversations. The result is that we get these really weird encounters between characters; like when Rand interrupted Loial with something like "We get it" as like a funny joke between friends, but it didn't make any sense because Loial hasn't actually rambled at all, yet. And they also haven't become friends, yet.
Mat is gone, and Moraine has deemed him naturally-evil, but we never actually got to see him do anything evil. He was corrupted by the dagger in like 5 minutes, and then Moraine healed him with the flick of a wrist.
Seriously; damn near every scene, and every element of the plot, move along way too damn quickly.
Nynaeve goes from totally calm to SUPER SAIYAN in the span of literally two seconds, in this episode.
It's just frustrating. The writing itself isn't great, but is passable. The acting is quite good; especially given the script they're working with. The special effects are solid. The set design is solid.
But the directing, or at least the pacing of the directing, is just downright bad.
I'm also not a fan of the show's art-style. It should be FAR more gritty than it currently is. But I've accepted that, given that this is a PG-13 show.
The rating is not an excuse for the shitty directing, though.
Nonetheless, I will keep watching it. How could I not support Wheel of Time?
Also, CG baby-Rand looked like a monkey. That was awful CG.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I thought this was the weakest episode yet. Am I really supposed to care about the romance between Lan and Nyna? The characters just haven’t had that much time together. It also doesn’t help that the actors have no chemistry.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
"The choice of aesthetics was funny. They seem to have been trying to cross medieval England/Europe peasant village, with a bit of Vikings, and some seemingly Tibetan/Himalayan clothes. Then throw in a witch and a ronin. I'm not one to call appropriation though, so it hardly upset me. Just funny."
I came back to read some previous posts because I meant to reply and never did.
Tams
the world in Wheel of Time is meant to take place THOUSANDS of years in the future. There's a blink and you miss it scene during either the first or second episode when they're traveling cross-country and you see a pair of futuristic buildings with unique architecture. Some things would have stayed the same (loosely remembered traditions that are kinda altered due to it being the far future and the introduction of the new religion/ability of The One Power.
And to THEM... the characters... They aren't different races. They're humans. Trollocs are a different race. Kinda like how in LOTR Hobbits, elves, goblins, wizards, men ... THEY'RE also different races... Not because of skin color.
I came back to read some previous posts because I meant to reply and never did.
Tams
the world in Wheel of Time is meant to take place THOUSANDS of years in the future. There's a blink and you miss it scene during either the first or second episode when they're traveling cross-country and you see a pair of futuristic buildings with unique architecture. Some things would have stayed the same (loosely remembered traditions that are kinda altered due to it being the far future and the introduction of the new religion/ability of The One Power. And to THEM... the characters... They aren't different races. They're humans. Trollocs are a different race. Kinda like how in LOTR Hobbits, elves, goblins, wizards, men ... THEY'RE also different races... Not because of skin color.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Also... Someone in the thread said Nynaeve is acting like "I'm a strong independent woman and don't need no man" ... You either didn't watch the show or you haven't paid attention at all.
Nynaeve is distrustful of the Aes Sedai because of how they treated the woman who raised her. She basically hates them! She's gentle and happy when she is with her friends... Male and female! And she's beginning to have feelings for Lan. It's pretty much spelled out for you, but whoever said it obviously either took someone's word for it or can't be bothered to remember a lick of dialogue.
Nynaeve is distrustful of the Aes Sedai because of how they treated the woman who raised her. She basically hates them! She's gentle and happy when she is with her friends... Male and female! And she's beginning to have feelings for Lan. It's pretty much spelled out for you, but whoever said it obviously either took someone's word for it or can't be bothered to remember a lick of dialogue.
Ironbunny
Member
The horrible cast and soap opera wheel of the series is the biggest problem I have. It goes to Xena Warrior princess levels most of the time. The effects seem to be a mix bag from good to bad and the whole show feels uneven from start to finish. Cant remember if the books themself were such a political injection of todays twitter world but I doubt it. Its been 25+ years since I read those but dont remember imagining the world the way it potrayed here.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I said it, but I didn't said "don't need no man" I said she never smiles, so there is someone who can't be bothered to remember a lick of something, and it's you with text.
Great Hair
Banned
I survived (barely) the first episode - AMA
Among the worst shows of all time. Terrible effects, non sensical bullshit, boring characters, boring dialogues, huge nostrils, a lazy super-stronk-witch, who decides to help when 90% of the villagers have died ...
For someone (da witch) who can decide battles against those beast, she sure was not able to detect them coming, attacking the villagers. is this for teenagers? absolutely nothing about it wants me to keep wathcing this.
ultra low budget Lord of the Rings with cheap effects. i watched mcgruber the first episode and thought it was bad, but this is even worse than that.
For someone (da witch) who can decide battles against those beast, she sure was not able to detect them coming, attacking the villagers. is this for teenagers? absolutely nothing about it wants me to keep wathcing this.
ultra low budget Lord of the Rings with cheap effects. i watched mcgruber the first episode and thought it was bad, but this is even worse than that.
Ulysses 31
Member
Hoppa
Member
Read a tiny amount of the first book last year I think up until they left the village so I’m riding with the show from then onwards. Enjoying it so far, knowing how long it took in the book for Rand and his dad to walk back to the village after the attack I can definitely see how people can feel it’s rushed but it hasn’t been that bad generally. I’m guessing in the books there’s more mystery and intentional misdirects around who the dragon is, but in the show it quite clearly is Rand.. he just has that blank main character with a past vibe a bit like Jon Snow. After he knocked that door down they never referred to it again.. the other characters have had some interactions with magic ut they’ve each had a bit more exposition to them except maybe Naeneve but she’s clearly a supporting character.
it’s a shame they were only given 8 episodes obviously would’ve benefitted with more character and relationship building, especially when they were all separated into smaller groups - Lan and Nynaeve would’ve felt more believable and Perrin/Egwanes platonic relationship could’ve been established better, that moment where they implied Perrin was romantically interested came out of the absolute blue they never showed that. Also Mats gollum arc was resolved a lot faster than I expected but maybe that’s why he stayed behind?
it’s a shame they were only given 8 episodes obviously would’ve benefitted with more character and relationship building, especially when they were all separated into smaller groups - Lan and Nynaeve would’ve felt more believable and Perrin/Egwanes platonic relationship could’ve been established better, that moment where they implied Perrin was romantically interested came out of the absolute blue they never showed that. Also Mats gollum arc was resolved a lot faster than I expected but maybe that’s why he stayed behind?
Pallas
Member
I feel like that’s kind of the problem, it’s really, really, and I mean really difficult to condense the first book into just 8, 1 hour long episodes. That’s probably why some viewers feel like everything is going fast forward. Im at least happy that they didn’t change who the DR was from the books.
On another note …
Im just glad they haven’t forgotten about Padan Fain(also got a Min sighting!) who made a appearance in the last episode. Im wondering if he’s already infected like Mat was? Maybe he was already infected at Two Rivers? I felt he wasn’t scared or worried when the Trollocs hit the village in the first episode, and him having Mashadar in him Would explain how he survived the village being sacked, I don’t think the trollocs would get too close to him. Im still wondering if Mordeth will ever make a appearance… maybe season 2? Actually, season 2 should be about the Seanchan… but who knows?
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Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah this needed to be 10 episodes. I read that the show-runners wanted 10 but bezos only gave them 8. Also I did not picture Min a middle aged Asian woman. Asian is fine, but like 10 years younger lmao.
Trogdor1123
Member
They are only doing 8 episodes? I though 10. That is a shame. They could have fit split the first book into 2 seasons. There are logical breaks. The speed they are going is my number 1 concern with the show as a fan of the books. They are missing important stuff.
that being said, I really like episode 7. It was good fun.
that being said, I really like episode 7. It was good fun.
Hari Seldon
Member
Witcher is on season 2. Season 1 was bad at times but overall enjoyable, which is how I would classify season 1 of WoT so far.
nightmare-slain
Member
OK. seriously...you're adding nothing. Witcher's first season was ass. so what's your point? I'm actually enjoying WoT S1 way more than I did Witcher S1. If WoT S2 improves like Witcher S2 then i'll be fucking happy.
They could easily do book 1 in 8 eps, but they would have to actually focus on Rand as main character instead of divvying up all the airtime between secondary characters.
The Witcher shares these problems as well. Instead of more Geralt/Ciri time really diving into their relationship, we get the Yenn/Fringella snooze fest. Yenn, as much as I like the actress, should always be a guest star as that adds so much to her mystique.
The Witcher shares these problems as well. Instead of more Geralt/Ciri time really diving into their relationship, we get the Yenn/Fringella snooze fest. Yenn, as much as I like the actress, should always be a guest star as that adds so much to her mystique.
gamescoltsfan
Banned
Can’t turn back the wheel of time.
Trogdor1123
Member
If the whole show had been as good as episode 7 I think more people would be liking it, even with the super speed
LordOfChaos
Member
They definitely should have dwelled on Tam's fever dream longer. It was just like, Rand gets out of bed and is like I'm the dragon, the fever was on screen for like 4 seconds. The Blood Snow was awesome, but they could have melded the reveal in better.
And yeah, Mat's inherent darkness is nonsense, that's not his character at all. Like Siuan says, he's like her uncle that made light of everything but died saving kids from a burning barn, he'll always bitch and complain but also always do the right thing.
I guess they could just write that as Moirane being wrong about him, but I wonder if it was half an FU and goodbye to the actor, I still wonder why he's separating from the show, I was starting to like his Mat
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I said it, but I didn't said "don't need no man" I said she never smiles, so there is someone who can't be bothered to remember a lick of something, and it's you with text.
I added the "don't need no man" part because that's usually what's included with "strong independent woman". LoL! It was a while back so I can't remember everything. My bad that I came off aggressively. I just get annoyed when someone reads a character as something they haven't displayed. And she has smiled quite a few times. Just not with Moiraine around. She HATES the Aes Sedai.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
If I added nothing you added less than I did.
witcher has likable character, wot has yet to have one.
Pallas
Member
Your opinion, but did you just post in here to trash a show you aren’t watching?If I added nothing you added less than I did.
witcher has likable character, wot has yet to have one.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Sorry dude but she has been a miserable drag on the show so far and I'd love to see her die.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
I am watching it, I have watched every episode. You can, scroll back through here and see me lament the death of a character that wasn't really dead.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Catphish
Member
This show is such a departure from the books, it’s staggering. I won’t bother enumerating all the changes but, ffs, at the very least, the Blight is NOT a sea of overgrown weeds. So disappointing.
That open was dope, though. I knew who that was as soon as she started whoopin ass.
I have no idea how they wrap this up in one episode. Too much wasted time, too much needless brooding or pointless agonizing. Too much romantic bullshit.
Whoever drew the line at 8 episodes did this whole endeavor a disservice. Hopefully they throw more weight behind season 2. This story deserves more than what it’s getting.
That open was dope, though. I knew who that was as soon as she started whoopin ass.
I have no idea how they wrap this up in one episode. Too much wasted time, too much needless brooding or pointless agonizing. Too much romantic bullshit.
Whoever drew the line at 8 episodes did this whole endeavor a disservice. Hopefully they throw more weight behind season 2. This story deserves more than what it’s getting.
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Batiman
Banned
Who’s likeable in the Witcher? I only watched season one and it was horribleIf I added nothing you added less than I did.
witcher has likable character, wot has yet to have one.
Ballthyrm
Member
I really liked her in the books for that reason. She is an asshole and she owns it.
In the show they don't have the courage to write her as such. They are afraid of writing women who are bad and in charge on the world they are in.
They don't follow the theme of the books at all. So that's a big no-no for me.
I think I'll give up.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
I like the bard, geralt and yennifer. All are interesting characters.
Tams
Member
Well, that last episode was a bit of a dud. More like a soap opera and I almost switched off. I get why they did it though, as they've raced through so quickly that there's been little rime for exposition, so they need to do that now to prevent the audience getting completely lost. Dumping it all in one episode is lazy and silly though.
It showed quite a lot of weakness in the cast as well, really cementing the young adult/PG13 nature of this show. Honestly, only Rosamund Pike, Daniel Henney, and Kae Alexander (Min) came across as good.
And is Nynaeve this annoying in the books? I almost skip any scene with her in it.
Anyway, to think that even thousands of years in the future that race still wouldn't play a part is silly. Not that I really care about that, but the casting really does seem like they did pick n' mix. I haven't called it a problem and the actors are all decent enough; it was just an observation.
As for your notion of what a 'race' is... The Trollocs are not a different 'race', they are a different species. Or at least they are grossly corrupted humans to the point that 'race' isn't enough to describe how different they are.
It showed quite a lot of weakness in the cast as well, really cementing the young adult/PG13 nature of this show. Honestly, only Rosamund Pike, Daniel Henney, and Kae Alexander (Min) came across as good.
And is Nynaeve this annoying in the books? I almost skip any scene with her in it.
I'm not sure why you're singling me out."The choice of aesthetics was funny. They seem to have been trying to cross medieval England/Europe peasant village, with a bit of Vikings, and some seemingly Tibetan/Himalayan clothes. Then throw in a witch and a ronin. I'm not one to call appropriation though, so it hardly upset me. Just funny."
I came back to read some previous posts because I meant to reply and never did.
And to THEM... the characters... They aren't different races. They're humans. Trollocs are a different race. Kinda like how in LOTR Hobbits, elves, goblins, wizards, men ... THEY'RE also different races... Not because of skin color.
Anyway, to think that even thousands of years in the future that race still wouldn't play a part is silly. Not that I really care about that, but the casting really does seem like they did pick n' mix. I haven't called it a problem and the actors are all decent enough; it was just an observation.
As for your notion of what a 'race' is... The Trollocs are not a different 'race', they are a different species. Or at least they are grossly corrupted humans to the point that 'race' isn't enough to describe how different they are.
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I might be wrong, but if I rememember correctly from the books Trollocs procreate by raping humans. The origins of the species I can't remember anything about though.
Doom85
Member
Pretty sure there was no mention of Trollocs doing that, but rather they just procreated with each other. The genes usually balance between their human genes and animal genes (a Forsaken, forget which one, did genetic experiments with human genes and animal genes to create them), but if the human genes are extremely dominant they give birth to a Myrddraal.
Could be. Could be one of those false memory things. It's clear in my mind that I read that during the first books, but might have been some other books and over time my mind just mixed it. Tried a search and found little conclusive so seems I was wrong.
[QUOTE="Tams, post: 265248627, member: I get why they did it though, as they've raced through so quickly that there's been little rime for exposition, so they need to do that now to prevent the audience getting completely lost. [/QUOTE]
Yeah my wife, said as much yesterday. She outright said she doesn't understand some stuff or why characters are acting certain ways.
Yeah my wife, said as much yesterday. She outright said she doesn't understand some stuff or why characters are acting certain ways.
Tams
Member
Yeah my wife, said as much yesterday. She outright said she doesn't understand some stuff or why characters are acting certain ways.
[/QUOTE]
The main opening of episode seven was a joke.
Why were Rand and Nynaeve so pissed at the others 'leaving' Mat behind? He had very clearly chosen not to come with them and the show hadn't shown anything near enough to suggest their bond was so strong that it defies basic reason.
It just seemed to have been included to create drama; and it wasn't good drama.
Then suddenly racing through what as 'a day's journey' in what appeared to be at most 20 minutes of 'in world' time, just so they could squeeze more exposition into the episode.
I think they should have perhaps ended this season with arriving at the White Tower, or with them entering the portal.
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Hari Seldon
Member
Hari Seldon
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
WOW! That explains that. Smh
The show undercuts her reason (that the prior Wisdom was rejected for being "too hillybilly") COMPLETELY by having the Amerlyn Seat herself coming from a seemingly poor rural background.
It seems to me that the script fights itself a lot like this.
Trogdor1123
Member
If you read the prequels it makes more sense too