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Wheel of Time

Alebrije

Member
The serie is average....its soft fantasy it feels more like an Dungeons and Dragons show , even The Hobbit has darker lore than this show. The problem with soft fantasy worlds is that they need strong characters and the serie's main problem are the forgettable characters/ actors...the wolf guy is lame, sosouless. Even then The lore looks interesting and the only reason to keep it watching the show.

This is a serie you watch because there is nothing better on Amazon Prime or you do not have any better to do.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
The serie is average....its soft fantasy it feels more like an Dungeons and Dragons show , even The Hobbit has darker lore than this show. The problem with soft fantasy worlds is that they need strong characters and the serie's main problem are the forgettable characters/ actors...the wolf guy is lame, sosouless. Even then The lore looks interesting and the only reason to keep it watching the show.

This is a serie you watch because there is nothing better on Amazon Prime or you do not have any better to do.

If the lore interests you, read the books, they're 10x better than this

I gave it every bit of optimism before that finale...But that...Ehh. I'll probably still watch season 2 because I love the books so much and I'm glad it got a show at all, but they're screwing up some weird things.
 
Even understanding some changes would be necessary I'm pretty unhappy with the direction of a number of things in the show. The 'woke' factor is almost the least of my concern, simply a distraction from the changes that are actually substantive and really take away from the characters and world.

Quality has varied among episodes, some of the highs were great. I'm willing to give it another season-ish to see if they can find their legs (as admittedly the first book is weaker in the series and very much a LoTR romp), but I had really hoped my cherished fantasy epic would be given more love than this in the story department, especially if they're trying to do another GoT level of success.

A main actor left, and covid hit; writing & editing, cinematography really need to be kicked up a notch...much of this has felt very amateur hour. The fact that I'm doing a re-read and still on book 4 with the source material fresh in my head makes it even more painful at times to watch the show.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
I read that non-book readers view Perrin as the Hodor of this show. That is kind of hilarious, and sums up how the writers messed up the main characters.
I'm still waiting for the payoff for giving him a wife (at a time where egwyne is just becoming of age, he must have been married for just a few months or guys can get hitched way earlier than girls in that society).

I'm kinda waiting for Perrin come out as gay, which would make what happened to his wife some repressed urges I guess :p
 
I'm still waiting for the payoff for giving him a wife (at a time where egwyne is just becoming of age, he must have been married for just a few months or guys can get hitched way earlier than girls in that society).

I'm kinda waiting for Perrin come out as gay, which would make what happened to his wife some repressed urges I guess :p
You might have just nailed the twist. He did say that he loved Rand too, when Egwene said it. He was in love with Rand the whole time, and everyone interpreted him being jealous of Egwene and Rand's relationship as him jonesing for Egwene.
 

Pallas

Member
I'm still waiting for the payoff for giving him a wife (at a time where egwyne is just becoming of age, he must have been married for just a few months or guys can get hitched way earlier than girls in that society).

I'm kinda waiting for Perrin come out as gay, which would make what happened to his wife some repressed urges I guess :p

You might have just nailed the twist. He did say that he loved Rand too, when Egwene said it. He was in love with Rand the whole time, and everyone interpreted him being jealous of Egwene and Rand's relationship as him jonesing for Egwene.
Jokes aside, I wasn’t really a fan of the wife element but … Perrin in the books does find love with the Saldean noblewoman Faile. She was pretty important to his character development so I’m hoping she isn’t cut.

I read that non-book readers view Perrin as the Hodor of this show. That is kind of hilarious, and sums up how the writers messed up the main characters.
No offense to the actor, but I feel like he doesn’t really help that prospective much. Perrin though was also a talk, big bruly and brooding dude. Writing isn’t giving him any help either on that part. I think it’ll improve next season.
 
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Hoppa

Member
I read that non-book readers view Perrin as the Hodor of this show. That is kind of hilarious, and sums up how the writers messed up the main characters.
Non book reader - don’t know how anyone could make that connection honestly. To me, for now, he’s just a big sensitive introverted block of wood. I like him but I want to know more about the wolf thing. It’s clearly a big part of his story but they set it up in one episode, the payoff was in another episode and then that was it apart from the bartender and Egwene referring to it . It’s likely due to budget restraints because even the wolf attack scene had like one actual wolf in it to my memory(?).

Finale was pretty bad. The villain character didn’t make sense to me (why didn’t he just kill Moraine while she had the knife to Rands throat? He was just standing there talking to her..) and the little talisman was a bit convenient. Very average but I’m still looking forward to the next season. I’m interested in what Egwenes magic is. They’ve shown Aes Sedai and males channelling but hers was gold.. Also why did they need to summon a tidal wave on that little girl. A bit OTT if you ask me
 
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Wildebeest

Member
For me the torture scene with Perrin was easily the low point of the whole thing. Gratuitously trying to check a box in the "edgy stuff adult peak telly has to do" in a way that didn't fit in tonally. Probably have plans to chop his nob off in the future as well, just as a soulless by the numbers genre convention.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Jokes aside, I wasn’t really a fan of the wife element but … Perrin in the books does find love with the Saldean noblewoman Faile. She was pretty important to his character development so I’m hoping she isn’t cut.
They will just make Faile non-binary and thus make the character immune from criticism. Because, you know, a curvy blacksmith wife was just too feminine for Perrin.

I mean, Moraine is gay and is trapped in an abusive relationship with her boss at her toxic AF office so stands to reason Perrin is next.

Can't WAIT to see the AIEL!!
 

Tams

Member
For me the torture scene with Perrin was easily the low point of the whole thing. Gratuitously trying to check a box in the "edgy stuff adult peak telly has to do" in a way that didn't fit in tonally. Probably have plans to chop his nob off in the future as well, just as a soulless by the numbers genre convention.
I understand why they did it though: they thought that they were making an adult show.

But in reality they made a drama-laden YA show and stuck a bit of cheap blood and violence in. They tried the sexiness too, but the only major actors that were really prepared to play were Pike and Henney (oddly enough, the only great actors in the show).
 

LordOfChaos

Member
They tried the sexiness too, but the only major actors that were really prepared to play were Pike and Henney (oddly enough, the only great actors in the show).

Alanna has some plot I wouldn't mind seeing explored...

d6da70ea254b371d24650bc3b36c0b8d45916290.gifv


I was only looking for my friend Rand, of course, I'm spoken for
 

Narasumas

Member
I read all the books and I am terribly disappointed by this show. I'm still going to watch the final episode of this season and I will leave it at that.

I still don't understand the need to "diversify" all characters where it is not needed in a universe that is already multicultural in itself.

The casting is off, especially Egwene. The best cast character, imo, is Matt and he already left the show as I understand.

The acting is, for the most part, horrible. The character arcs are ridiculous. While I do understand TV is a different medium than books and some changes are you expected, I believe the choices made here are pretty much always wrong.

And as everybody said before: it all feels rushed, which makes some unnecessary scenes they've added and invented themselves even more jarring.

Pretty much a complete failure.
Haven’t watched yet and am on book three of a re-read (only ever made it to Lord of Chaos). The actor for Matt has left? Like, permanently?

So if they do a season 2, it’s just gonna be some other dude?? This alone just killed the whole thing for me wtf.
 

Narasumas

Member
I thought this was the weakest episode yet. Am I really supposed to care about the romance between Lan and Nyna? The characters just haven’t had that much time together. It also doesn’t help that the actors have no chemistry.
It was kinda like that in the books too imo. I remember reading them and being like, “did I miss something? When did they ‘ship?” That was one of the faults of the books I had.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
It was kinda like that in the books too imo. I remember reading them and being like, “did I miss something? When did they ‘ship?” That was one of the faults of the books I had.

Yeah I don't remember seeing it until the "must I say it?" conversation and her having red eyes the next day, especially in the early books he wasn't that good at building up a romance, in this case it was actually the show that made it clearer from the start

On everything else...Read the books lol.
 

Tams

Member
Amazon are really pushing this. I'm seeing it all over any new tech that has Amazon involved: from the Samsung Freestyle projector to BMW's new in-car entertainment system.

And one thing is very obvious (though also very prominent in the initial promo stuff): Moraine (and to a lesser degree Lan) are front and centre.

It makes sense, as those are the best actors in this and they have among the 'coolest' scenes for sure. But even as a none book reader, the story doesn't seem to be that it's supposed to be about them so much.
 

Tams

Member
EviLore EviLore Please, if you have the time, implement the option to add proper quotes in edits. 👃

Using the word "daddy" is cliche but obviously WoT massively influenced GoT just like you said. WoT influenced all modern fantasy that intends to be some huge 5+ book series.

I like fantasy, but I'd never even heard of The Wheel of Time until this TV series. I don't think WoT is as popular as you think it is.
 

Tams

Member
"As of 2021, the series has sold over 90 million copies worldwide, making it one of the best-selling epic fantasy series since The Lord of the Rings.[5][6]"
That doesn't mean that it's mindshare is anywhere as big as other series. Hell, just a proportion of the US (over a couple of generations in that timeframe) could have been the main source of those purchases, meaning that few other places got into it.

I guarantee you that you could mention Harry Potter almost anywhere in the world and people would know of it. WoT time though? Nah.

So I suspect it's a regional thing. In the UK Terry Prachett's Discworld series was quite prominent. You could easily find it in any library or bookstore in a prominent place. WoT though? Never saw it. I'm sure it was there, but from the cursory glances I made even something like Dune was more obvious.
 
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Doom85

Member
That doesn't mean that it's mindshare is anywhere as big as other series. Hell, just a proportion of the US (over a couple of generations in that timeframe) could have been the main source of those purchases, meaning that few other places got into it.

I guarantee you that you could mention Harry Potter almost anywhere in the world and people would know of it. WoT time though? Nah.

So I suspect it's a regional thing. In the UK Terry Prachett's Discworld series was quite prominent. You could easily find it in any library or bookstore in a prominent place. WoT though? Never saw it. I'm sure it was there, but from the cursory glances I made even something like Dune was more obvious.

Possibly. In the US, when people I know discussed fantasy, Wheel of Time was almost guaranteed to be brought up, and this was long before the Amazon series, whereas Discworld would be mentioned merely occasionally.
 

Toots

Gold Member
My girl watched the amazon show. She was really into it.

Seemed allright if not bit derivative.

Then one time as i was passing by i see the dude from a way out, the long nosed brother of the game designer.
As much as his english improved since doing the game (and it really did improve), i could not take the show seriously from that point on...
 
Wheel of Time was definitely the most popular fantasy series in the 90's before Harry Potter and the LOTR movies. It would be impossible to miss by anyone who ever browsed a fantasy section in a bookstore, or talked to anyone about fantasy books. I could see how younger people who have never been in a real book store could miss it though.
 
Barney Harris (Mat) was fired because he refused to be vaccinated, which was required after the filming was halted due to covid after episode 6.

good, i didn't really like him in the show. probably my least favourite out the main characters (rand, perrin, nynaeve, egwene). this isthe guy who is replacing him. his name is Dónal Finn. he was in The Witcher S1 for one episode apparently.

iu
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Wow. That's not for you to say.

Let's leave it there, otherwise this going to get nasty.
Whatevs man. Look, we can whip out our fantasy dicks, slap 'em on a table, and have a measuring contest but I think it is a pretty safe assertation that it is IMPOSSIBLE to simultaneously say "I like fantasy" and "I've never heard of Wheel of Time" unless you A. are VERY new to fantasy or B. are from a remote non-english market. WoT books DOMINATED every fantasy book section for DECADES. EVERY new release was virtually guaranteed a big display in the fantasy area, if not right at the front of the store. It's ok to have not read it, but I can't believe you were unaware of it entirely unless your fantasy trek started post 2013 and doesn't involve going to actual bookstores. Which is fine, but some of us here stretch back to the 70's or earlier and our reading covers well over a century of fantasy writing.
 

O-N-E

Member
Yea, I've never read Wheel of Time and I'm not watching this show, but the assertion that the series is not very popular is insane.

If you are a fan of fantasy books and have browsed the options, you know about Wheel of Time. It's a giant in the genre.
 

Tams

Member
WoT is massive though. Maybe you just overlooked it. It's almost impressive you hadn't heard of it, considering how often it comes up.
All I'm saying is that in the UK, over the years that it was ongoing, it never cropped up even once. No mention on the news. No publicity. No showcasing in the school or public libraries that I went to. It just wasn't in the British public's mind. Meanwhile Harry Potter was everywhere. Amongst schoolkids, Lemony Snicket was very popular, as was Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials. And the sheer amount of Discworld books meant that they were prominent (you notice when an entire row of a bookcase is taken up by one series).

Robert Jordan's death made no significant news in the UK. Terry Prachett's did. The posthumous release of Douglas Adams And Another Thing... (completed by Eoin Colfer - another well-known fantasy writer in the UK), was quite well known in the UK, the last WoT book...

And don't get me started on popularity outside the Anglosphere.

So, no I'm not doubting that the WoT series is very popular in some places (and yes, it does seem to have sold well in the UK). But nowhere near everywhere.
And I'm sure a lot of fantasy writers have read at least some of it. But fantasy as a genre is much, much, much older than 1990.
Therefore to say it's influenced all modern fantasy is poppycock.

The one author who inarguably has influenced almost all modern fantasy is J.R.R. Tolkien, as stereotypes he made or fleshed out appear in much of it.


Plus, perhaps I've listed enough fantasy there to earn my 'fantasy book' chops that for whatever reason you seem so eager to show that I don't have.

Edit: and now you lot are saying that I'm either very young (not true) or have never spent time in a bookshop (not true). I don't know why you've decided to make this personal.
 
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Raven117

Member
Wheel of Time was definitely the most popular fantasy series in the 90's before Harry Potter and the LOTR movies. It would be impossible to miss by anyone who ever browsed a fantasy section in a bookstore, or talked to anyone about fantasy books. I could see how younger people who have never been in a real book store could miss it though.
Man, this hit me square in the nostalgic balls.

I never read the books myself, but I distinctly remember browsing the fantasy section and seeing all the Wheel of Time books.
 

Kimahri

Banned
All I'm saying is that in the UK, over the years that it was ongoing, it never cropped up even once. No mention on the news. No publicity. No showcasing in the school or public libraries that I went to. It just wasn't in the British public's mind. Meanwhile Harry Potter was everywhere. Amongst schoolkids, Lemony Snicket was very popular, as was Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials. And the sheer amount of Discworld books meant that they were prominent (you notice when an entire row of a bookcase is taken up by one series).

Robert Jordan's death made no significant news in the UK. Terry Prachett's did. The posthumous release of Douglas Adams And Another Thing... (completed by Eoin Colfer - another well-known fantasy writer in the UK), was quite well known in the UK, the last WoT book...

And don't get me started on popularity outside the Anglosphere.

So, no I'm not doubting that the WoT series is very popular in some places (and yes, it does seem to have sold well in the UK). But nowhere near everywhere.
And I'm sure a lot of fantasy writers have read at least some of it. But fantasy as a genre is much, much, much older than 1990.
Therefore to say it's influenced all modern fantasy is poppycock.

The one author who inarguably has influenced almost all modern fantasy is J.R.R. Tolkien, as stereotypes he made or fleshed out appear in much of it.


Plus, perhaps I've listed enough fantasy there to earn my 'fantasy book' chops that for whatever reason you seem so eager to show that I don't have.

Edit: and now you lot are saying that I'm either very young (not true) or have never spent time in a bookshop (not true). I don't know why you've decided to make this personal.
You're responding to a lot of stuff i never said. Check your quotes before posting.
 
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NahaNago

Member
Barney Harris (Mat) was fired because he refused to be vaccinated, which was required after the filming was halted due to covid after episode 6.

Do they not understand you can still get covid even if you're vaccinated.

On topic, this show just made me really want to reread the series again,only problem I sold all of my sci-fi and fantasy books since I was planning on traveling, lol. I also was expecting the aiel to look more half naked tribal people.

So this is throwing me off was this set on earth or some other planet cause big city ruins but magic and trollocs in the future. I know their was past like eras but I never really connected them to modern cities.
 
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Tams

Member
You're responding to a lot of stuff i never said. Check your quotes before posting.
No, I responded to your claim that WoT influenced all modern fantasy, and then your and others') subsequent claims that WoT is popular everywhere (that was the insinuation given the context) and then bizarrely that I apparently don't like fantasy fiction enough.

Great rebuttal though.

Oh, and I was just reading an article recommending fantasy books. WoT wasn't mentioned in it, lol. Nor the previous article/listicle that author wrote.
 
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Kimahri

Banned
No, I responded to your claim that WoT influenced all modern fantasy, and then your and others') subsequent claims that WoT is popular everywhere (that was the insinuation given the context) and then bizarrely that I apparently don't like fantasy fiction enough.

Great rebuttal though.

Oh, and I was just reading an article recommending fantasy books. WoT wasn't mentioned in it, lol. Nor the previous article/listicle that author wrote.
I never claimed that, Hari Seldon did:

Using the word "daddy" is cliche but obviously WoT massively influenced GoT just like you said. WoT influenced all modern fantasy that intends to be some huge 5+ book series.

I never said anything about how much you like fantasy either.

I'm not gonna bother rebutting a load of horseshite that has nothing to do with me. Reply to the ones who actually said those thing, and maybe they'll rebutt it. All I said is that it's massive and that it's kinda impressive you hadn't heard of it.
 
Wheel of Time inspired modern fantasy? Ensemble cast? Drama & Comedy? Positive and negative story elements? Isn’t that lotr?

The cover makes me want GoT perspectives.
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
A bit of interesting knowledge, Robert Jordan and George R R Martin we’re pretty good friends up to Jordan’s death and if I’m not mistaken credits Jordan as someone who inspired him with the Fire and Ice series.


It inspired him to make ASOIAF longer than a trilogy, but that's about it.

GRRM started writing ASOIAF in 1991 and around 18 months after the first WoT book was published. At that time, I don't even think Robert Jordan knew how many books would be published in the WoT series.

GRRMs main influence for ASOIAF was real world history, specifically the English medieval civil war known as the War of the Roses.
 

Tams

Member
I never claimed that, Hari Seldon did:



I never said anything about how much you like fantasy either.

I'm not gonna bother rebutting a load of horseshite that has nothing to do with me. Reply to the ones who actually said those thing, and maybe they'll rebutt it. All I said is that it's massive and that it's kinda impressive you hadn't heard of it.
I was too lazy to bother quoting everyone, but I addressed it with: "and then your and others'" Plus, "it's kinda impressive you hadn't heard of it" is in exactly the same vein as those comments.

And you've still provided no rebuttal. With that I'm out. You're not going to change your mind and this thread has been derailed enough.
 

Kimahri

Banned
I was too lazy to bother quoting everyone, but I addressed it with: "and then your and others'" Plus, "it's kinda impressive you hadn't heard of it" is in exactly the same vein as those comments.

And you've still provided no rebuttal. With that I'm out. You're not going to change your mind and this thread has been derailed enough.
A rebuttal to what? What the hell do you want me to rebut? Fer crying out loud, you're getting your titties in a twist with me over shit I had nothing to do with.

This is all I said: "WoT is massive though. Maybe you just overlooked it. It's almost impressive you hadn't heard of it, considering how often it comes up." This is all I said, then you launch a rant attack on me based on things OTHER people said. So by all means, leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Getting a bit heated in here.

Can we all just at least agree that WoT is one of the most popular fantasy novel series of all time? I've not even read the series myself and even I appreciate it's huge popularity.

Thinking about starting the books, but to be honest the number of books puts me off a little bit.
 

Kimahri

Banned
Getting a bit heated in here.

Can we all just at least agree that WoT is one of the most popular fantasy novel series of all time? I've not even read the series myself and even I appreciate it's huge popularity.

Thinking about starting the books, but to be honest the number of books puts me off a little bit.
Yeah, sorry about that, just get a bit annoyed when people attack me for shit I didn't do, lol

I never finished them. There are a lot of books, I loved the 3 or 4 first ones, then they progressively got slower and more boring as they went on. He really should have reined it in.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Yeah, sorry about that, just get a bit annoyed when people attack me for shit I didn't do, lol

I never finished them. There are a lot of books, I loved the 3 or 4 first ones, then they progressively got slower and more boring as they went on. He really should have reined it in.

Maybe I shouldn't bother with them. I don't want to spend money on time on a series I don't enjoy. Your not the first person either to say the books really drop in quality in the middle of the series.

No need to apologise to me or anyone else either. I'm sure you and Tams can just agree to disagree.
 

Batiman

Banned
Do they not understand you can still get covid even if you're vaccinated.

On topic, this show just made me really want to reread the series again,only problem I sold all of my sci-fi and fantasy books since I was planning on traveling, lol. I also was expecting the aiel to look more half naked tribal people.

So this is throwing me off was this set on earth or some other planet cause big city ruins but magic and trollocs in the future. I know their was past like eras but I never really connected them to modern cities.
I agree it’s sorta bullshit and disappointing to lose him. But being unvaxxed is sort of a liability for an employer. There’s a few unvaxxed people at my work that had to take long periods of time off when they got Covid. 3 people were in the hospital for a couple of months m. One of them about Barney’s age. Something like that can fuck up production. One coworker died. Most vaxxed workers are back to work quickly. I can see why Amazon doesn’t want to deal with that and take the risk over one person.
 
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Hari Seldon

Member
That doesn't mean that it's mindshare is anywhere as big as other series. Hell, just a proportion of the US (over a couple of generations in that timeframe) could have been the main source of those purchases, meaning that few other places got into it.

I guarantee you that you could mention Harry Potter almost anywhere in the world and people would know of it. WoT time though? Nah.

So I suspect it's a regional thing. In the UK Terry Prachett's Discworld series was quite prominent. You could easily find it in any library or bookstore in a prominent place. WoT though? Never saw it. I'm sure it was there, but from the cursory glances I made even something like Dune was more obvious.
Dude WoT was Internet 1.0's GoT or even Lost. This shit was all over Usenet and old school forums back in the day. I think the biggest all time MUD was WoT based (never played it, but someone told me about it and it sounded amazing). I'm guessing you are too young or it just didn't reach your neck of the woods.
 

Raven117

Member
Can we all just at least agree that WoT is one of the most popular fantasy novel series of all time? I've not even read the series myself and even I appreciate it's huge popularity.
Of course it is.

Now, I wonder who picks up Terry Brooks' Shannara series? Because that, my friends, is another epic fantasy series untapped.
 
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