Why is he comparing VRS to the geometry engine? Both consoles have a geometry engine and Xbox has a VRS support built-in as well (not sure bout ps5?).
yesIs this good?
Cool thanks
Really? At least they had VRR since launch.The problem Is that Microsoft Is very slow
Kinda pops the hype balloon though when it still struggle with the performance, don’t you think?P.S. Apparently Cyberpunk 1.5 uses VRS and the result is practically invisible even at 400% zoom according to Alex on twitter.
Why is he comparing VRS to the geometry engine? Both consoles have a geometry engine and Xbox has a VRS support built-in as well (not sure bout ps5?).
It’s the usual downplay anything positive.Yes, my bad attitude really is the problem here.
Turning the resolution down to 720p would be an even bigger win bro.Seeing all three or a combination of these features is going to be a big performance win for Xbox.
No, they don't. VRS Tier 1 vs software-based VRS was always comparing how tiles were grouped. Software-bssed VRS won because you were allowed to have smaller tile sizes, something that can be done with VRS Tier 2.Wait, so they’re implementing their own software vrs “reinhardluma2x” instead?
Seems to be echoing what the COD devs found where software was more flexible and more performant on balance. Also soon to be a Microsoft tech.
Turning the resolution down to 720p would be an even bigger win bro.
Come on, 720p plus VRS wooooo
The foveated rendering done on the psvr2 is a form of VRS. Plain and simple.The suggestion is the PS5 GE is a custom design that culls much earlier on. No need to shade something at all if it's been removed from the equation upfront.
It's plausible with Sony doing the PSVR2 eye tracking to dynamically adjust quality based on the users focus. Sounds like a lot more going on than just variable shading.
Would you say that something that reduces effective resolution in some non-needed places AND also allows you to have a much higher resolution overall is bad?VRS is not a good thing… we are supposed to be getting better image quality with new generations not worse.
I hate every single technique like this that’s designed to save performance over quality like screen space effects, and damn can they die already.
Some of this is just too funny to me, we had stable reflections in mario 64 but not games from 2021 xD
How is a lower quality feature something to be bragged about?!
Do you have specifics on how it's done? I wouldn't call rendering the non-focused areas with lower resolution a form of VRS. What's specific of VRS is being able to choose per draw call/pixel which shading to apply.The foveated rendering done on the psvr2 is a form of VRS. Plain and simple.
You do realize it’s starting to appear on playstation games via software… and I hate it there too dude.If you've got no interest in actually discussing this then just leave the thread instead of your bitter trolling.
Hilarious that some fanboys think they know more than the likes of The Coalition and id software, totally deluded.
Yes. “Not needed” Well sure in the way that higher res textures are not “needed”.Would you say that something that reduces effective resolution in some non-needed places AND also allows you to have a much higher resolution overall is bad?
Gears 5 was allowed to get 92% of 4K instead of 83% when using VRS.
It's not as clear as you claim to be.
If you actually watch the presentation they explain how it improves image quality by allowing increased resolution and less use of DRS, they mention this several times.You do realize it’s starting to appear on playstation games via software… and I hate it there too dude.
This isn’t a ps vs. xbox thing this is an vrs is a bad thing.
It’s their choice, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best choice and other developers will prioritize different things. They’re banking on people noticing the resolution more than the in surface noise.If you actually watch the presentation they explain how it improves image quality by allowing increased resolution and less use of DRS, they mention this several times.
You don't know more than these developers.
It’s their choice, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best choice and other developers will prioritize different things. They’re banking on people noticing the resolution more than the in surface noise.
Noisier detail vs lower res… yeah I want image stability and consistency.
Same reason i’d rather see lower detail with good reflections than higher modeling with warped unstable disappearing screen space reflections.
Luckily on PC I can turn it off for MS brand games.
Riky Since you are an xbox guy, play a game like crackdown and you’ll see what I mean, look at explosions.
Crackdown has a resolution of 720p (or 4k on x1x) but the particles resolution is much lower, so it clashes and looks jaggier than the geometry.
This is the same thing in principle, just applied in a more robust way. It’s not unnoticeable, they just are prioritizing the resolution for geometry over surface resolution.
If you don’t notice it then they succeeded in their priorities for you but the reduced surface resolution is there.
Which means that the shading rate changes per pixel over the image in regions. As far as I understand PS4 / PS4 Pro suppers fairly coarse grained free multi resolution render targets support where each region can have different parameters including shading rate. They were not nearly as fine grained as the regions VRS deals with, so while they could have some nice perks they are not a substitute. PSVR1 titles used this.That isn't necessarily what PSVR is doing. In fact it wouldn't make sense to do that, it would be better a fixed shading rate depending on the distance from the eye focus
o you have specifics on how it's done? I wouldn't call rendering the non-focused areas with lower resolution a form of VRS. What's specific of VRS is being able to choose per draw call/pixel which shading to apply.
Which means that the shading rate changes per pixel over the image in regions. As far as I understand PS4 / PS4 Pro suppers fairly coarse grained free multi resolution render targets support where each region can have different parameters including shading rate. They were not nearly as fine grained as the regions VRS deals with, so while they could have some nice perks they are not a substitute. PSVR1 titles used this.
Now, with true foveated rendering it is possible that they are using a much more fine grained version of tech they already had or something new (also knowing that just blurring objects outside of your focus area can be a big no no for VR, it can make it difficult to react to objects/enemies and not an exact match of how human sight works, so you need something better).
MS does a great service to gamers and devs showcasing their tech and features set with public presentations like this, but the warring aspects is to think the other side does bit talk because it has nothing to talk about in public and leaves people puzzled in game comparisons.
Easy VRS Integration with Eye Tracking | NVIDIA Technical Blog
NVIDIA Variable Rate Shading (VRS) now includes VRS Helper, enabling easier integration of VRS with eye-tracking in modern HMDs.developer.nvidia.com
The goal of VRS is to relieve load on the GPU. If the performance issue is something else (as Cyberpunk aims to be), I don't know what you expect it to do.Kinda pops the hype balloon though when it still struggle with the performance, don’t you think?
If anything this gen has told me that paper specs means very little. Seems like XSX always needs some advanced optimization tech to push higher framerates.
Edit: And of course I get the trusty old laugh reaction. Sigh. Edited the post a little to get people less triggered.
I don’t think you understand how it works. You lower quality of low visibility areas and can raise quality of highly visible areas.VRS is not a good thing… we are supposed to be getting better image quality with new generations not worse.
I hate every single technique like this that’s designed to save performance over quality like screen space effects, and damn can they die already.
Some of this is just too funny to me, we had stable reflections in mario 64 but not games from 2021 xD
How is a lower quality feature something to be bragged about?!
Just wait for 2027, that’s when this extra special sauce will really help.
They are. VRS and sparse lighting completely off. These things were not completely off on the UE5 or Alpha Point demo.I also don't get why they're claiming an initial Nanite processing time of 5.57ms, considering last year they claimed it was taking less than 2.1ms on the Series X.
Is it not the same Alpha Point demo from Coalition? Perhaps they're using worst-case scenarios (best case for VRS time savings).
For the last time dude. Reading comprehension is important.I pulled that picture off AMD's website talking about DX12 VRS... you don't get that level of granularity on Tier 1 VRS. It uses Tier 2.
You said "I kept telling people that was Tier 1 and not Tier 2." to Mr Moose who referred to DOOM Eternal, to which I said [Doom Eternal] used Tier 2. Nobody had made any reference to DIRT 5 until you did lol. Then I corrected you again saying DIRT 5 did use Tier 2...
The tools issue was real despite fanboys making it a meme.
Nothing serious to add again,they show you the results in shipped games like Gears 5 and Doom Eternal.
The goal of VRS is to relieve load on the GPU. If the performance issue is something else (as Cyberpunk aims to be), I don't know what you expect it to do.
Then, Cyberpunk is supposed to be using the "quality mode" of VRS and with it the performance gain becomes less. That on PC it is used by default on compatible GPUs, means that there is a reason for it.
That said, we are not talking (at least me) about what it means to have VRS vs not having VRS thinking about what it can benefit from PS5. But if you want to take it to that side, you have cases where it has served for XSX to achieve up to 30% more resolution and we are talking about a technology that is evolving, looking for new implementations and it is clear (as seen in the video) it is a " you should use it" for developers on XSeries to gain performance.
That in the future the developers do not make the best use of VRS?That they use it more as a way to save optimization time in Xseries vs PS5? That only first party Studios make good use of the tool (in the manner of Sony being the only one making good use of CH and not always)?That remains to be seen, but the technology is there and it's not "just marketing".
That in the future the developers do not make the best use of VRS?That they use it more as a way to save optimization time in Xseries vs PS5? That only first party Studios make good use of the tool (in the manner of Sony being the only one making good use of CH and not always)?That remains to be seen, but the technology is there and it's not "just marketing".
That Xseriers has VRS by hardware and not so PS5 is one of the things that are clearest at this point. I do not know what tells you that there are already almost a dozen games using VRS on XSX while not on PS5. Then, pretending to believe that a presentation of this type by the Xbox developers has no means anything and that it is only for fans to use it to encourage the console war is, sorry, a bad joke.The problem is that you are straight up posting drivel, with no basis whatsoever to make distinctions between the hardware. The only thing happening here is a MS dev sharing what they are doing and that being spun into console wars.
It's the same cycle over and over and over around here. And at the end of the cycle it's always the same result. PS5 didn't have RT, then it didn't have INT8, then it didn't have VRS, then it didn't have Mesh Shaders.
Time goes by and what's happening in the real world? It's 2022 baby, these consoles came out in 2020 and people still holding to secret sauces.
There is nothing "secret" about it, we've just seen a two hour plus video with it all detailed.
That Xseriers has VRS by hardware and not so PS5 is one of the things that are clearest at this point. I do not know what tells you that there are already almost a dozen games using VRS on XSX while not on PS5. Then, pretending to believe that a presentation of this type by the Xbox developers has no means anything and that it is only for fans to use it to encourage the console war is, sorry, a bad joke.
With Mario avatar, this is pretty braveTurning the resolution down to 720p would be an even bigger win bro.
Come on, 720p plus VRS wooooo
Discuss about what? You can bet your balls such milliseconds are saved in other ways by developers with other tech in their engine. Why every time Xbox fans find phenomenal such optimizations? Because they are specifically for the VRS hardware? There are even software implementation which can give similar benefits. Lol. Why you fallen always in the MS PR trap.
As how it compares to other hardware. What you’re seeing here is optimization being done by MS developers. Optimization will be happening across the industry.
The implication that this is something that only Xbox series can do, when even different architectures *nvidia cough* can do it is what’s funny about this whole thing.
As how it compares to other hardware. What you’re seeing here is optimization being done by MS developers. Optimization will be happening across the industry.
The implication that this is something that only Xbox series can do, when even different architectures *nvidia cough* can do it is what’s funny about this whole thing.
Which games have VRS only on Series hardware and not on PS5/Nvidia hardware?
And why does Nvidia focus on VRS for eye tracking foveated rendering, and PSVR2 will use eye tracking foveated rendering, but somehow only Series has hardware support for VRS?
I know right.Which games have VRS only on Series hardware and not on PS5/Nvidia hardware?
And why does Nvidia focus on VRS for eye tracking foveated rendering, and PSVR2 will use eye tracking foveated rendering, but somehow only Series has hardware support for VRS?