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[FrankWza]

Playstation continues to be the worst gaming platform for both consumer and developers.
But it's a good platform for Sony shareholders

 

[nominedomine]

Playstation continues to be the worst gaming platform for both consumer and developers.
But it's a good platform for Sony shareholders

If only consumers knew what was best for them, they just keep blindly buying PlayStations and their games for no reason.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Dont really see the problem with this to be honest. Sony has every right to demand what they want with their platform, just like Microsoft and Nintendo can. And this is not going to be a pain for devs, and cause them more work. They could just do it like EA does with its 10 hour trials on EA Play, just have the game boot back to the title screen after 2 hours of play is up.

The only thing i would say is why have it locked behind the top tier sub plan?, why not just have this as standard?. I mean would 2 hour trials really make some of you sign up to the top tier of a sub plan for this?. It wouldnt for me. Full games would like on Gamepass, but not trials.

Still like i said, i see nothing wrong with this to be honest.

I wouldn't bump a tier either if that was a feature too. But, the reasons I can see it behind the top plan only is:

1. Top plan are gamers paying the most. They'll be the biggest gamers. So give them the option as they'll probably be the biggest spenders converting.

2. Giving trials to all gamers sounds good, but then you'll get a portion of gamers who never buy a game ever and just milk trials. At minimum 2 hrs each, there will be enough content out there (even if only for games going forward and not retroactive) for a gamer to pay $0 and just coast on dabbling with trials

3. There's probably some kind of data research they have showing if you got too many demos or trials being played, it means they are playing existing games they got less, so less mtx being spent on games they own. That's my guess. And sounds logical. If someone said you can download 40 trials of final version games, I bet most gamers would sift through the list and play a bunch of them. Unless that person converts to a buyer, they just spent 10 hrs testing games for free. And that means 10 hrs of no revenue being made on lets say COD or Fortnite mtx.

4. The games will be the full version. I dont know what server/bandwidth costs, but if it was opened up to all gamers, you got 100M+ PS gamers downloading 50gb games 24/7. Surely costs a lot.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Nevermind, carry on then warrior

I’m the warrior? You here sweating over game trials fam, you and the rest of the lot who are pro consumer until pro consumer means Sony might be unto something.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nevermind, carry on then warrior

 

[remember_spinal]

Nevermind, carry on then warrior

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yeah and like I said, the assumption was that it would be first party trials only, that's what was being pay walled, we didn't know back in January what we know now.

Throwing shade and jabs doesn't really get your point across any more clearer my dude.

And that assumption is relevent to the stance that "demo's shouldn't be behind paywalls" how exactly?

My point is pretty clear. You just misconstrute it. And you always do this. Just like you did with GHG before.

 

[solidus12]

Is this clown still working at IGN ? lol

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Playstation continues to be the worst gaming platform for both consumer and developers.
But it's a good platform for Sony shareholders

Imagine thinking having trials for most expensive games is a bad thing for consumers, lmao.

 

[remember_spinal]

Is this clown still working at IGN ? lol

People cannot complain bout console warring without at least acknowledging the medias role in it.

 

[solidus12]

Imagine thinking having trials for most expensive games is a bad thing for consumers, lmao.

I remember back in the PS3 days, they did have trials for some games, and nobody complained back then.

 

[remember_spinal]

I remember back on the PS3 days, they did have trials for some games, and nobody complained back then.

But think about the poor devs who have to make sure their games aren’t buggy and broken, and enjoyable.

They really relied on people blindly purchasing their games, what will they do now?

 

[FrankWza]

People cannot complain bout console warring without at least acknowledging the medias role in it.

Xbox head Phil Spencer says console tribalism is “one of the worst things about our industry”

“The biggest competitor we have is apathy.”

www.theverge.com

Tom Warren Profile and Activity - The Verge

Tom Warren is a Senior Editor for The Verge. Tom previously founded WinRumors, a site dedicated to Microsoft news, before joining The Verge. Tom also used to work as an enterprise project manager in a variety of investment banks, and has a background in IT and Windows engineering. Tom has...

www.theverge.com

 

[remember_spinal]

Xbox head Phil Spencer says console tribalism is “one of the worst things about our industry”

“The biggest competitor we have is apathy.”

www.theverge.com

Tom Warren Profile and Activity - The Verge

Tom Warren is a Senior Editor for The Verge. Tom previously founded WinRumors, a site dedicated to Microsoft news, before joining The Verge. Tom also used to work as an enterprise project manager in a variety of investment banks, and has a background in IT and Windows engineering. Tom has...

www.theverge.com

Phil Spencer himself follows a bunch of hardcore console warriors on twitter. Like you wouldn’t even be able to confuse them for anything else

 

[Menzies]

I’m hoping this opens up to a streaming option, because downloading 100GB full game for 2 hours a piece isn’t really making this interesting for me.

I think the most damning report is that publishers have not been notified, and that a revenue split is apparently not happening. So Sony is monetising others work for free?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Xbox head Phil Spencer says console tribalism is “one of the worst things about our industry”

“The biggest competitor we have is apathy.”

www.theverge.com

Tom Warren Profile and Activity - The Verge

Tom Warren is a Senior Editor for The Verge. Tom previously founded WinRumors, a site dedicated to Microsoft news, before joining The Verge. Tom also used to work as an enterprise project manager in a variety of investment banks, and has a background in IT and Windows engineering. Tom has...

www.theverge.com

 

[DarkMage619]

It will be for every third party and first party AAA. The games most pay attention to.

Stop being so disingenuous.

You should watch davidjaffe video. The only thing disingenuous is believing this is like Game pass. Besides so many here think Game pass is bad it should be great this isn't like that.

The difference is, Microsoft pays devs to publish their games on Game Pass, while Sony is forcing them to put games on PS Premium with 2 hour trials without giving them a penny. Sony is profiting, not devs.

We'd have to see how Sony will compensate devs for this policy. At least if devs are being compensated the cost to gamers makes more sense. If you don't want to pay you can simply avoid the Premium tier all altogether. I just don't see a way for devs to opt out though unfortunately.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You should watch davidjaffe video. The only thing disingenuous is believing this is like Game pass.

Where did I ever say that?

Or are we moving goal posts again?

 

[adamsapple]

I’m the warrior?

With zingers like these ..

You know it’s a good idea if Xbox fans are all up in arms about it.

These fanboys should try and be more consistent with their pro consumer narrative.

If this is MS you just know this boy is throwing a party.

And that assumption is relevent to the stance that "demo's shouldn't be behind paywalls" how exactly?

My point is pretty clear. You just misconstrute it. And you always do this. Just like you did with GHG before.

It's not, it feels like we're both misconstruing each others points. I've said at least a few times over in this topic that trials would have been fine if they weren't just locked to the highest paid tier, and/or a time based refund window is implemented on all platforms.

When the news first broke out of Schrier, the widely accepted assumption was that in lieu of MS offering first party games on day 1, Sony are going to offer some kind of trials for their first party games on day 1. However in the last couple of days we've found out that this trial thing extends to roughly all games, not just first party games.

 

[DarkMage619]

Where did I ever say that?

Or are we moving goal posts again?

Apparently you didn't even take the time to see the post I was responding to. Cool.

 

[FrankWza]

I think the most damning report is that publishers have not been notified, and that a revenue split is apparently not happening. So Sony is monetising others work for free?

I wouldn’t go that far. GameStop sells used copies of full games that publishers and developers see zero dollars on. This is basically free tap water and a chance to look at the menu

 

[StreetsofBeige]

We'd have to see how Sony will compensate devs for this policy. At least if devs are being compensated the cost to gamers makes more sense. If you don't want to pay you can simply avoid the Premium tier all altogether. I just don't see a way for devs to opt out though unfortunately.

I wouldnt be surprised if there was zero compensation.

Why would they?

I dont know the history. Did MS or Sony pay devs for 360/PS3 demos and trials even though those cost devs time and money to make?

If I was Sony, I'd spin it as a zero compensation feature as they are the ones doing the work with the bandwidth and timer. It's free advertising for devs. And by the looks of it, it doesn't even have to be a day one trial. It can be a 3 month down the road trial so launch day sales will be saved. It's not like day one reviews or YT videos seem to affect sales poorly for popular shit games. And this feature is only for select gamers who pay for the prem plan.

Main reason I'd fear this feature if I was a dev is if I was going to release a shitty and/or ultra short game.

 

[mckmas8808]

Dont really see the problem with this to be honest. Sony has every right to demand what they want with their platform, just like Microsoft and Nintendo can. And this is not going to be a pain for devs, and cause them more work. They could just do it like EA does with its 10 hour trials on EA Play, just have the game boot back to the title screen after 2 hours of play is up.

The only thing i would say is why have it locked behind the top tier sub plan?, why not just have this as standard?. I mean would 2 hour trials really make some of you sign up to the top tier of a sub plan for this?. It wouldnt for me. Full games would like on Gamepass, but not trials.

This is not the selling point of the top tier plan for Sony though. There's a reason why we still don't officially know about it, whereas they advertised the new service coming a few weeks ago. This is just an value add to PS Premium. This will NOT be the "reason" to get PS+ Premium.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Apparently you didn't even take the time to see the post I was responding to. Cool.

And in context to what I said, my point still stands.

Always funny when we see you and adam in every single Sony thread, arguing, concern trolling and downplaying away.

 

[adamsapple]

Apparently you didn't even take the time to see the post I was responding to. Cool.

Gotta get the gifs in man, ain't got time to read

 

[DeepEnigma]

Gotta get the gifs in man, ain't got time to read

 

[yurinka]

So gamepass makes core gamers buy less games than they did before and doesnt really apeal to casuals? With this I can agree and now I see where the spin was.

I didn't say it doesn't appeal to casuals. I think:
-People who spent more money in music albums and concerts (hardcore) is more likely to pay for Spotify than the people who doesn't.
-To pay for Spotify may make won't turn these casual to spend more money in music albums and concerts, more likely the opposite.
-These 'hardcore' doesn't spend more than the average/casual user on music albums or concert because of Spotify, they already did it before subscribing.

-Same goes with Netflix/Disney+/etc and the people who went a lot to the cinema and bought a lot of DVD/BD movies (hardcore) vs the average (casual).
-Same goes GP/PS+ Extra/Premium/Deluxe and hardcore gamers (who buy a lot of games per year) vs casual gamers (who buy a game or two per year).
-The negative impact on sales of having a full game inside a game sub would be way higher than including only a short demo of the game. Because the one who played the demo has to buy the game to play it completely, while the one who has the complete game can play it as much as desired in the sub and after that may not see the point on buying it after it. Same as someone not buying a music album because already had it on Spotify or not buying a DVD movie because saw it/had it on Netflix.

 

[Menzies]

I wouldn’t go that far. GameStop sells used copies of full games that publishers and developers see zero dollars on. This is basically free tap water and a chance to look at the menu

Well at least the devs and publishers can look at the used game market and say ‘well we were involved with the initial transaction’.

This just appears to be immensely one-sided at the moment.

Fear for any slow-burn/high exposé titles that require some investment in time to reach the gameplay hook. Plenty of JRPG’s take a while to ‘get going’

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sony are going to offer some kind of trials for their first party games on day 1. However in the last couple of days we've found out that this trial thing extends to roughly all games, not just first party games.

So it's okay for trials to be tied to a sub-service if it's just for FP games is your argument?

 

[dcmk7]

And in context to what I said, my point still stands.

Always funny when we see you and adam in every single Sony thread, arguing, concern trolling and downplaying away.

Just the 47 posts between them in this thread

 

[adamsapple]

So it's okay for trials to be tied to a sub-service if it's just for FP games is your argument?

It's preferable if trials were available on all tiers of the subscription, because trials by their nature are demos, not full game accesses that would warrant a higher tier (eg EA Play+ as an example that's been brought up frequently).

But honestly it feels like there's not much new to discuss until some actual solid news about this comes out of Sony or any of the major publishers. We know via some leaked info that Publishers haven't even been briefed on this. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't kick off, or it's scope drastically changes before all said and done.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just the 47 posts between them in this thread

Every time.

 

[FrankWza]

Well at least the devs and publishers can look at the used game market and say ‘well we were involved with the initial transaction’.

This just appears to be immensely one-sided at the moment.

Disagree. Basically any digital store that offers refunds after starting would be in the same boat and would have ended years ago. I’ve never heard that classified as one sided or the storefront monetizing developers work without compensating.

 

[GHG]

Every time.

Ornstein and Smough.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It's preferable if trials were available on all tiers of the subscription, because trials by their nature are demos, not full game accesses that would warrant a higher tier (eg EA Play+ as an example that's been brought up frequently).

But honestly it feels like there's not much new to discuss until some actual solid news about this comes out of Sony or any of the major publishers. We know via some leaked info that Publishers haven't even been briefed on this. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't kick off, or it's scope drastically changes before all said and done.

That's not what I'm asking. I'm trying to figure out why you think the fact that we now know the trials extend beyond FP games is a relevant new piece of information in the context of "demos should be free"

 

[Menzies]

Disagree. Basically any digital store that offers refunds after starting would be in the same boat and would have ended years ago. I’ve never heard that classified as one sided or the storefront monetizing developers work without compensating.

The difference being that money at least was exchanged to the devs and publishers before the refund was issued.

In essence they view it as you have to pay us for the privilege, now it is money being traded (in part) for my product, that someone else is enjoying revenue from.

Can see how this would not sit well.

EDIT: AND the storefront doesn’t continue to sit on revenue after the refund.

 

[adamsapple]

That's not what I'm asking. I'm trying to figure out why you think the fact that we now know the trials extend beyond FP games is a relevant new piece of information in the context of "demo's should be free"

There's a bit of a misunderstanding here, you're under the assumption that everyone was perfectly A-OK with the prior knowledge when we thought trials were only gonna be on first party games. That's not the case, people had reservations about the whole thing then as well, and with it not just being relegated to FP games, that's magnified as you'd expect.


But I sincerely hope the Premium tier will offer more value than what I’m reading and goes beyond full game trials

To us, it seems insane that a 'trial' of a game would be something paid for

As for game trials, it perhaps hearkens back to Xbox Game Pass' biggest strength. Game Pass delivers day one first-party releases to subscribers for no extra charge. PlayStation may be unwilling to go that far,


There's probably a lot more articles on quick google searches and I don't want to get into the twitter cesspool.

Every time.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

There's a bit of a misunderstanding here, you're under the assumption that everyone was perfectly A-OK with the prior knowledge when we thought trials were only gonna be on first party games. That's not the case, people had reservations about the whole thing then as well, and with it not just being relegated to FP games, that's magnified as you'd expect.


But I sincerely hope the Premium tier will offer more value than what I’m reading and goes beyond full game trials

To us, it seems insane that a 'trial' of a game would be something paid for

As for game trials, it perhaps hearkens back to Xbox Game Pass' biggest strength. Game Pass delivers day one first-party releases to subscribers for no extra charge. PlayStation may be unwilling to go that far,


There's probably a lot more articles on quick google searches and I don't want to get into the twitter cesspool.

There's no misunderstanding here. I'm asking you where were you and the concern trolls when we already knew about these paywalled trials months ago.

It's really simple. You didn't give a fuck then. You don't give a fuck now.

 

[FrankWza]

The difference being that money at least was exchanged to the devs and publishers before the refund was issued.

In essence they view it as you have to pay us for the privilege, now it is money being traded (in part) for my product, that someone else is enjoying revenue from.

Can see how this would not sit well.

EDIT: AND the storefront doesn’t continue to sit on revenue after the refund.

Right. So how is this any different? They get a full refund. Do the devs or pubs keep a percentage of the refund?

 

[RoadHazard]

I guess sony gotta find ways to make the premium tier attractive. Did we really need 3 tiers though? It should have been just ps plus basic and ps plus premium.

Well, I don't really give a shit about PS1-3 games, so I don't mind paying less to get everything except that.

 

[Menzies]

Right. So how is this any different? They get a full refund. Do the devs or pubs keep a percentage of the refund?

Because Sony continues to ‘rake it in’ and directly profit, regardless if there’s no converted sale I.e. refunds do not make anyone money, mandatory trials still make Sony money.

 

[adamsapple]

There's no misunderstanding here. I'm asking you where were you and the concern trolls when we already knew about these paywalled trials months ago.

It's really simple. You didn't give a fuck then. You don't give a fuck now.

This is the last thread that at least I was around to participate in:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/all-new-playstation-plus-launches-in-june-with-three-flexible-membership-options.1633596/

And this is the only point there regarding trials.

• Time-limited game trials will also be offered in this tier, so customers can try select games before they buy.

There is literally nothing here to react to, no news, no scale/scope for anything. Literally no one in the topic reacted to it, no fans of any persuasion if you will.

The news we're getting in this topic and the one line lip service we had before aren't comparable nor would / should they have generated the same kind of discussion.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is the last thread that at least I was around to participate in:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/all-new-playstation-plus-launches-in-june-with-three-flexible-membership-options.1633596/

And this is the only point there regarding trials.



There is literally nothing here to react to, no news, no scale/scope for anything. Literally no one in the topic reacted to it, no fans of any persuasion if you will.

The news we're getting in this topic and the one line lip service we had before aren't comparable nor would / should they have generated the same kind of discussion.

Of course there's something to react to. The fact that trials are tied to the most expensive PS+ tier. A fact which you are now only concerned about in this thread for some reason

 

[Corndog]

I’m the warrior? You here sweating over game trials fam, you and the rest of the lot who are pro consumer until pro consumer means Sony might be unto something.

How is charging money for demos pro consumer? Offer them for free.

 

[dcmk7]

How is charging money for demos pro consumer? Offer them for free.

It's try before you buy.

It's an additional perk to a premium subscription, not the only perk which people seem to be neglecting.

Nothing has been removed just gained.

 

[Menzies]

It's try before you buy.

It's an additional perk to a premium subscription, not the only perk which people seem to be neglecting.

Nothing has been removed just gained.

That’s spinning a selective perspective.

The product hasn’t been released and we don’t have survey samples to validate how many users are subscribed just for this feature.

On the information we have it just seems unethical at best for Sony to directly profit from this.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That’s spinning a selective perspective.

The product hasn’t been released and we don’t have survey samples to validate how many users are subscribed just for this feature.

On the information we have it just seems unethical at best for Sony to directly profit from this.

Are consumers hurting from this?

No

Are they benefiting from this?

Yes

The only spinning is people who think this is a bad thing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

How is charging money for demos pro consumer? Offer them for free.

The publishers can do that if they choose to. Blame the publishers.

 

[Dick Jones]

People cannot complain bout console warring without at least acknowledging the medias role in it.

Tom Warren:
Exactly 30 years ago today, that game starring a big pink ball dropped
Today my balls still haven't dropped and it might be cool if they do someday.

Thanks for the update Tom

 

[Menzies]

Are consumers hurting from this?

No

Are they benefiting from this?

Yes

The only spinning is people who think this is a bad thing.

I was commenting on the commerce of structuring this behind a paid tier subscription with no revenue share.

Plenty in the industry are commenting about this new news.