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PS Plus Members in Asia Irate As Sony Wipes Discounts on Tier Upgrades, Demands Upfront Fee for Stacked Subs [UP: Sony fixes error]
- Thread starter Godot25
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BusierDonkey
Member
Antwix
Member
Yet support agents are customers only way to communicate directly with the company on issues such as this one. The chain of communications is so disjointed even if this is an issue it will take a while to get cleared up.
This issue if it is a "bug" might be why Sony launched the PSN update overseas first, they would be/will be crucified for this bullshit in North American region.
kingfey
Banned
Yes this one 100%. Bring bloodborne to pc.
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AdjudicatorHead
Member
Oh absolutely and I'm sure almost everyone here has experienced the frustration of a useless support agent because your issue is outside of an extremely narrow set of common problems they're able to deal with, and it takes an age to get up the chain for a proper response.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Not saying this makes it official but you would think someone at Sony would have already corrected this if it was wrong
Now maybe in a day or two after a lot of bad reactions they may come out and reverse it or say it was in fact a bug but until otherwise I say its true
Plantoid
Member
Wouldn't be a first
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's true and support answer don't mean anything. Especially after chatting 3 times with Amazon support today and getting 3 different answers. Most support employess don't know shit.
Belthazar
Member
This is not only a shitstorm but people will rightfully sue if they retroactively remove discounts previously offered. People paid for a year of Plus, it's not their problem that Sony offered a discount on that. Sony needs to honor the deals they themselves proposed. They need to walk back on this ASAP as I for one will sue the hell out of them if that stays as it is now.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Sony's support employees are the ones who knew about them cutting off stacking before anyone else did.
They'll know about changes to PSN in general as the expectation would be they'd be handling a lot of calls, and thus need info.
Sony has no other support; you message their "twitter support" is a sham.. they get you to follow them in order to message them, then they just send you the support phone number lol
We aren't talking about returning an item to amazon here... this is a company rolling out a new service and their support personnel will be trained on it.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Totally agree that support can be messed up with the wrong info as you point out speaking to 3 different people yielded 3 different answers
But I dont know how many players the Tweet is referring to but they seem to be getting the same answer, at least in that Region
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
yeah, its the lack of transparency.
Did the maths for that user and using the essential price as the same RRP as PS+ of old. They are currently having to pay 1201 HKD (153 USD) instead of 888 HKD (113 USD) to upgrade if they had bought at RRP or Sony had treated the remaining months as bought at RRP.
Yeah, that lack of transparency is real flaky TBH. If they were going to make users who purchased PS+ through 3P portals pay the difference between that and the normal price and THEN upconvert them to the appropriate higher tier, they maybe should've said something about that from the beginning. I.e something like "Members with PS+ subscriptions paid at the RRP alongside an active PS Now subscription will be automatically converted to Premium/Deluxe tier at the debut of the service revamp for no additional cost, for the duration of time remaining on their PS Now subscription. Members with PS+ subscription paid at the RRP who wish to upgrade their current subscription plans to Extra or Premium can do so by paying the difference between their PS+ sub and the time equivalent for Extra or Premium."
That way even if what's happening ATM is a bug, people would at least KNOW it's a bug or feel more confident believing it's just a bug in the coding that can be fixed. Instead, even if it's most likely just a bug, some are thinking it is intentional and the obfuscation was also intentional. For sake of goodwill, and honoring the transparency people assumed at the time of announcement due to certain lack of clarification on Sony's part, they should probably put out a statement saying they'll honor the PS+ subs at the purchased cost with no difference to be paid between that and RRP by customers as of the date of the statement. However, future PS+ purchases post-statement? Make them pay the difference all you want if they buy through a 3P portal, at least now they will know that is the case.
Microsoft were relatively quick in addressing their own fuk-up last year with the 100% XBLG increase, though that picked up a lot more attention quickly. Hopefully Sony doesn't wait until this becomes a focus before fixing it and providing further clarification.
Yeah, it would seem scummy from the customer POV. Sony isn't legally in the wrong for doing it, mind, but it's just a pretty lame thing to do to your customers when they made those purchases well ahead of any official service revamp announcement and therefore weren't even trying to "game" the upgrade options.
Which is why I'm more on the side of people like the Reddit poster versus, say, people who rushed out to buy PS Now or PS+ sub cards after the revamp announcement so they could try stacking them for 10 years. Like, you know that was gamble on your part, don't get upset when the gamble backfires
So everyone is getting what they paid for. People are complaining about not getting extra for a discount too?
We will see. But now tell me more about your wife's perfect ........
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
As someone who has actually sued a large gaming company before, I can tell you now that you don't have a valid case. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but just because you don't like the price of a product (in this case, an upgrade to a higher tier subscription) or you don't like that it costs more for you specifically - you don't have a case. There hasn't been any "damage". The fact that you don't like being charged extra for something you want because of arbitrary reasons isn't going to win you any court battles. It's definitely bad business practice though!
ToadMan
Member
Yeah if Sony stick with this line then the above is how they’re reconciling it.
It’ll be rough for Sony when that gets dropped on the US consumer base…
I don’t think this issue is anything to do with buying redeem codes from third parties. In fact, it’s possible the redeem codes wouldn’t have this problem assuming they weren’t discounted in some way in the code.
ManaByte
Gold Member
People are complaining about having to retroactively pay for the difference when they got a sub for 33% off FROM SONY.
It's like buying TLOU2 on PSN for $39.99 and then one day Sony saying "please pay $20 to load the game".
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Yeah and for that reason alone it's probably best for them to honor those who purchased PS+ at a discount rather than making them pay the difference between the discount and RRP. Especially considering for a lot of people they'd of purchased those subscriptions well ahead of the news for the revamp being announced, so they weren't doing it to "game" the system the way people suddenly snapping up PS Now sub cards (and purposefully waiting until as close to the day of launch as possible before activating) were.
I get it's a business but Sony should've been more transparent on if PS+ subscriptions purchased at discount would've required the user to pay the difference when upgrading to Extra or Premium/Deluxe, at the time they announced upgrade and conversion plans. That one's on them. Nothing stopping them from making people buying subs after a set date pay the difference if they buy them at discount (as long as those aren't purchased from Sony directly, otherwise that would come off as confused messaging and looking just plain stupid & greedy).
Yeah it's a bad look. And I was thinking the Reddit poster purchased from a 3P portal. Probably shouldn't of skimmed parts of it. But even if they did buy the sub through such means, given lack of transparency earlier I don't think it's right for those customers to be charged the difference when upgrading to a higher tier.
IF this is intentional, maybe Sony thought it was worth doing to balance out those who otherwise needed PS+ and PS Now subs in order to convert to PS+ Premium? But that is probably questionable thinking at best.
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The people who had PS Now stacked with PS+ are getting the upgrade.
It's not the fact that they don't get a discount.
It's people with just stacked PS+ trying to upgrade their plan after the launch who seem to be getting a quote where the discount they got on PS+ in the past is not being taken into account. I don't think this is even the case. The fact that the amount is close (not even exact) is only a byproduct of why the discount was what it was to begin with. It's to do with how they do the calculation for days left. People are converting yearly discount rates to all remaining days left and applying yearly costs but I suspect Sonys calculation is a little more nuanced than that.
Belthazar
Member
A discount was offered and a purchase was made on the basis of that discount. Now the service I aquired is worthy less, it's not that I don't like the price of a new product, it's that the product I own is now worth less that what was offered to me at the time. It would be the same as offering a next gen upgrade for $10, but if you bought the game at 50% off you suddenly have to pay $40 to upgrade. It's not the customer's fault that the product was offered at a reduced price and no information was given at the time of purchase regarding the product being different and inferior than when sold at full price.
I already spoke to a lawyer and it's definitely a case to be considered and most likely won according to brazilian consumer protection laws and related regulations.
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Smoke6
Member
Damn you can’t read for shit can you? I just pointed out something someone else pointed that made sense. My bad I’m not all in an uproar over something that hasn’t released in my region to bitch and complain about yet!
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Well ...greedy ? Yes !!! Fuck **f
Wrong ? No... they can charge the difference if they want (for ps+ users only!) ... Its stupid and anti consumer... but they can
Hope its just an error though
Wrong ? No... they can charge the difference if they want (for ps+ users only!) ... Its stupid and anti consumer... but they can
Hope its just an error though
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
That could be the case - I was speaking specifically about US law, sorry for the confusion.
In US civil law you have to prove "damages", and since the item you bought continues working as intended when it was originally purchased (PS+ becomes PS Essential for no extra charge) then you wouldn't have a case in the US.
Smoke6
Member
Just wait til that gamepass crackdown happens, shits bout to hit the fan!
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
In spanish:
Así o mas muerto de hambre es Sony?
in English:
The current sony is very sad, it is hungry for money
Así o mas muerto de hambre es Sony?
in English:
The current sony is very sad, it is hungry for money
ManaByte
Gold Member
A $2 trillion company is really hurting for that cash.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
I worry if and when MS stops you being able to use Microsoft Rewards points to pay for it - seriously haven't paid a penny since GPU became a thing, expires for me April 2024 currently. By that time with MS Rewards I'll have enough points for another 2 years unless they stop it.
T-Cake
Member
No need, they'll stop third party gift cards and things before they end redemption for their own products. I think the small amount of money they have to pay in exchange for Bing ad revenue, your participation in XBox services, etc. is more than a bargain for them.
Smoke6
Member
Ok so you’re telling me you’re gonna run a business just on making people happy with a service that’s costing you billions correct?
Am I reading that right?
I have $2 trillion dollars and I’m just gonna shove money into a project for shits and giggles cuz I have all this money?
Ok…
Guntherlibby
Neo Member
No chance some tier 0 staff person in India has been told if this is a bug or not. They're just making shit up.
It seems like they are still getting the benefits of the discounted sub they actually paid for though via automatic rollover right? They just aren’t getting a discount on this completely new service.
Did Sony ever advertise that people who bought the old subs would be able to subscribe to the new service at a discount?
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Belthazar
Member
I wouldn't be pursuing "damages" as in a monetary compensation, only the right to pay what's fair. There's something called "small cases" in brazilian legal system, which is usually reserved for small values (up to 20x the monthly minimum wage) where the customer or offended party can even engage without a lawyer and plead their own cause, which is what I'm planning to do as there's no fees if you lose the cause either. It's also pretty easy to build a case, as the purchase of a year of PS+ was made a couple months ago, a time where it's impossible for sony to not have decided, or at least be on very late planning stages, on their new subscription model so... having no disclaimer that the discount would be forfeited on the case of an upgrade or change in subscription models.
And inducing a customer to error is a crime according to brazillian's penal code (it can lead to 2~5 years of prison time and/or a hefty fine). It's considered embezzlement.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Interesting - if this comes to pass you'll definitely have to type up a thread on GAF about your experience with this.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They’re not asking for a discount. They’re getting charged the normal upgrade free ON TOP of being retroactively charged for what they already have, which erases the discount they already paid for.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You are missing the point.
Sony isn't "not giving a discount" on the new service.. they are literally making you pay back the discount you got on PS+ in the first place in order to uprgade.
So in order to upgrade to the higher tiers, different people are paying a different amount.. if you got a discount before, you pay MORE to upgrade than if you didn't.. it's ridiculous and rather unprecedented.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
lol
Belthazar
Member
I hope it doesn't have to go this way, as it'll probably take a while. Also, an example of how strong customer protection is over here: Sony lost the case when it banned PS5 over the sharing the PS5 collection with PS4 users, as the judge considered the connection over the internet a vital function of the product and that Sony didn't have the right of blocking access to it, especially for something that they weren't clear on the repercussions.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/05/05/ps5-ban-brazil-ruling/
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Sony either didn't think to do a conversion system or actively said "no" to the idea... because it's really not any more/less difficult than a "pay the difference" system from a coding perspective.
My guess is they said no to the idea.. Sony rolled this out to get a big revenue boost and clearly are unhappy w/ the fact they allowed cheap account stacking in the past.
My guess is they said no to the idea.. Sony rolled this out to get a big revenue boost and clearly are unhappy w/ the fact they allowed cheap account stacking in the past.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Fredrik
Member
I don’t even know what to be triggered by here, 2042 or $1000 lol
Reallink
Member
No doubt a majority of PS+ subs were bought on discount. They're probably expecting around 50% of users to upgrade to extra or premium. This was no mistake, you're talking about several hundred million dollars here. They've been going hard on Nintendo style price control since PS5 launch. AFAIK none of their 1st party PS5 games have had official price cuts or even sales, full $70, even the launch titles. Clearly the policy has been successful and they're looking to extend it to their services as well. Enjoy your full $60 for base PS+ and increasingly shit tier indie games you've never heard of as the "free" game offerings.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
They could have easily fixed the situation though by scaling the end date of the subscription back by half. So if someone with 4 years of Essential stacked up now wants Premium, they can convert to the higher tier by cutting their time in half (4 years of Essential = 2 years of Premium).
Instead of the guy that's stacked up to 2042 being charged $1,000 for the upgrade to Premium they could just give him Premium for free through 2032. Guess they'd rather have that potential $1,000 instead of making an obviously previously happy customer an unhappy one.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Aren’t the upgrades to higher tiers a manual thing and you’re already on PlayStation Essential at launch?
I don’t get how they can charge for something that automatically rolls over?
It sounds like people are expecting the discount to continue through to the upgrade?
I think what they’re complaining about is having to upgrade multiple years at once, which would be no doubt costly.
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