Support NeoGAF

[DaleinCalgary]

Is this a bad time to point out that a $70 PS5 game today is actually a few bucks cheaper than a $60 PS4 game in 2017?

What "dub" are you saying we think this is? I was only going for empirical evidence, and that's exactly what it is.

That's too much to handle for some people.

Last week I paid for a pack of bacon and Guardians of the galaxy ps5 about the same price.

Back in the day I paid $90 for Mario 64 and I could have filled 1/2 a cart full of groceries.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

It's settled then. This no-name YouTuber is a wise sage.

 

[Guilty_AI]

 

[BlackTron]

That's too much to handle for some people.

Last week I paid for a pack of bacon and Guardians of the galaxy ps5 about the same price.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Still stand by my decision to the GamePass route : $70 for any game is bullshit. It's even worse in europe afaik.

 

[clarky]

Im ok with paying £70-£100 for a game as long as its a genre defining 10/10 Banger. I paid over £100 for snes Street fighter 2 import back in the day and it was worth every penny.

On the flip side i recently paid £70 for GT7 and felt it was not worth that price.

If they insist on charging top dollar, the product should be able to back it up.

 

[Shifty]

According to the invisible hand of the market, about 40 bucks on steam is reasonable.

Which, coincidentally, is just below Guybrush's estimate if you account for inflation.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Games have been 60$ since when? PS2 era? So 22 years without them being more expensive than that.

I grew up paying a lot more for Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, Snes and N64 games..

OP posted all the dumb reasons. Dumb thread.

 

[yurinka]

"Budgets have gotten insane, so the price increase reflects that."

Fact. Unless you prefer the game to have ton of mtx and its content split into many dlcs.

This is a management problem. Manage better.

"Movie tickets have gone up in price due to inflation. Why not videogames?"

There's no management issue. Games get bigger, longer and more detailed which means AAA get way, way more expensive to make every generation. But games didn't increase their price during decades. In fact considering inflation they got cheaper over time.

As an example in Europe we had SNES games priced at 90€ (the $70 are 80€ here). Add to these 90€ the inflation of these almost 3 decades, which is almost 75% in my country, Spain, since 1994 to 2020 (in a quick search found a calculator which went only until 2020). This means that SNES games back then sold at up to 14990 pesetas (~90€) now with inflation would be over 155€. For a game made by a couple of dozen guys in half a year or so (less when were ports from arcade).

And now we're complaining for paying 80€ for a game made by around 2000 people during 4-6 years.

"It will get rid of loot boxes and micro-transactions. So it's either that or paying -$70."

AAA games require hundreds of millions of dollars to be made and promoted. Companies must get this money back and get profits because they are companies and not charities. There are 2 models: focus on paying to buy the game or to focus on its addons (DLC/MTX/season passes). And obiously both too.

In the case of companies like Sony most of their games doesn't have (or only have a handful) DLC or mtxs, so they have to focus in the other ones.

"Games will be better."

It's a fact that with a bigger budget you can get more and better artists, musicians, programmers, designers, etc. The more revenue thay can estimate/secure, the more they'll invest to make it.

"It's inevitable. People will pay it."

They are already doing it on many platforms. Even in retail we see that they sell more in the next gen versions with the higher pricing even if old gen consoles have a bigger installbase. The $10 increase doesn't affect sales.

And it's up to the consumer how much he or she is willing to pay.

Yes, you can look for or wait for discounts or price cuts. Nowadays most games get discounted or price cutted, and faster and mor aggresively than before.

Then again, Diablo: Immortal is printing money, so I'd say we have the industry we deserve.

Yes, your personal opinion is the opinion of a single person. The performance of a game or the market show the opinion of millions of people.

 

[bender]

Games have been 60$ since when? PS2 era? So 22 years without them being more expensive than that.

I grew up paying a lot more for Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, Snes and N64 games..

OP posted all the dumb reasons. Dumb thread.

I seem to remember PS2 era being $50 and some Sony first party titles being $40. I drink a lot though.

 

[Fuz]

I can't believe how brainwashed many of you are.

 

[Beer Baelly]

I'll pay $70 for tlou.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I seem to remember PS2 era being $50 and some Sony first party titles being $40. I drink a lot though.

Maybe you're right, here in Europe is always a bit more expensive than the US. Still PS2 50$, PS4 60$, PS5 70$. Seems normal.

And yes budgets are a LOT bigger.

 

[Kuranghi]

I can't believe how brainwashed many of you are.

I just washed mine last night, I love that freshly washed brain smell!

 

[Fredrik]

Sorry to be so boring but everything else is getting more expensive right now, I fully expect it to spread into gaming and not just on Sony’s platforms.

Still, in Sweden PS5 games cost 849kr, which with today’s conversion rate is $83.
It’s too much and the main reason why I keep mentioning PS+ Premium and want Sony to detail how long we have to wait for games there.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Charge me 70 dollars for games like rdr2 or gta 6, or modern warfare for that matter I'm OK with that.
But u can suck my dick if u are going to charge 70 for a remaster of tlou

Charge me $100 USD for games like GTA6 because they big, popular games..

Fuck no $60 or bust.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Pointing out that games used to be more expensive and that people should totally be ok with them going back to those prices is not the dub you seem to think it is.

Expecting video games to be completely immune to inflation is not the reasonable argument you think it is.

Every game will cost $20 some point. Just wait until then, this isn't that complicated of a problem to solve.

 

[Keihart]

No lies detected on the thread tittle.

There is a very real reason why budgets grow, it's because there is also a bigger expectation of sold units.
There is nothing stopping devs to make a great game with "smaller" budgets, you can see a really big gap between production values and budgets if you start looking at games,
And even then, high production values don't equal to great game nor commercial success, there is no real reason to be increasing the price of games by the publisher other than increasing revenue.

Games are cheaper than ever now to develop and not the other way around, there are better tools and more people that know how than ever before.

 

[Isa]

I wouldn't say that it is wrong. Different factors brought the price to this point. It seems to be what the market is willing to pay, and right now it seems to be working as the illusion of current-gen premium is still relatively strong for early adopters looking for the next big thing. And honestly, so many people(those being the hardcore day 1 crowd) are and have been willing to spend far far more in excess of that in the form of deluxe and greater editions for at least two other generations now. I'm not surprised honestly, especially with bloating budgets and the like. Consumers still push for AAA or whatever the current buzzword is and the big publishers have painted themselves into a corner expected to provide said products.

The difference is that nobody is forced to buy these games at launch. And how many now launch with problems and "exclusive" preorder perks and skins that are practically useless after the first few hours anyway. Only buying into the hype and having to have everything at launch despite not playing them right away is part of the problem. I know several guys that buy big games at launch and then either drop them or don't even start since they are playing other things, and could have saved a TON of moolah had they waited for price drops like the old days. Honestly people doing that are way smarter having the patience to wait. Not knocking those wanting to have a game day 1 mind you, I'm right there more often than not. I'm just saying that the market is actually pretty flexible to different budgets and what's on offer.

 

[Graciaus]

I don't pay over $48 day one. $60 is bad enough. Keep that shit away from pc.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Games are too cheap imo. Back then game slike Chrono Trigger and Phantasy Star iv cost $90-100, in the mid 90s. I am not say i want to pay more for games but it is completely understsandable why. Look at chicken wing, whole sale cost is x4 from a year ago. Gaming is literally one of the cheap form of entertainment around with the dollar to hour ratios. Of course it really depend on how long the game is, example Xenoblade 3 is earily 60 hours + game, the ratio is $1 per hour.

 

[hemo memo]

Given that the upcoming release of The Last of Us: Part I remake has reignited the discussion on whether or not next gen titles should cost $70, I'm here to remind you why any reason beyond "because we can" is complete horsesh*t.



For the TL;DW crowd:

• "Budgets have gotten insane, so the price increase reflects that."

When RDRII has horses whose ball shrink when it's cold, you know money could be shaved off somewhere.
This is a management problem. Manage better. And if you have to cut stuff to make the game within budget then so be it.
Consumers don't have to pay for your shitty management skills

• "Movie tickets have gone up in price due to inflation. Why not videogames?"

Movie ticket prices vary by region, by time, and even by film. But overall, the price is not standardize, unlike gaming.
Also, using DVD's doesn't work since those prices haven't gone up in over 15 years.
And given that streaming services have been taking over the entertainment landscape, this argument is even worse than before.

• "It will get rid of loot boxes and micro-transactions. So it's either that or paying -$70."

No, it's gonna be both. Why would publishers get rid of such lucrative practice.
They'll sell you the game at $70 while also shoving in MTX and lootboxes.

• "Games will be better."

This is highly subjective and depends heavily on individual developers.
And considering the state of the last two generations, I'll just keep my money instead.

• "It's inevitable. People will pay it."

This is actually the least BS reason. No, I won't. I'll just wait for titles to drop in price or during a Steam sale.
Good luck getting that new standard to stick.

At the end of the day, companies can charge whatever they want. And it's up to the consumer how much he or she is willing to pay.
The point of this thread is to dispel the notion that there's any reason for the price hike beyond a monetary one.
Then again, Diablo: Immortal is printing money, so I'd say we have the industry we deserve.

100% true.

Not my problem that you can’t handle a budget.

Don’t make me (the consumer) pay for it. I didn’t ask for a 300 hours game with every shitty quest they can think of.

Don’t go insane with the budget and cry about “games are ver expensive to make” but actually that cry is a happy cry as they brought inane numbers with Covid and still bringing insane numbers now.

“Support the developer”? What am I a fucking charity? How about lowering the cost of the game and for the dev to actually support ME?

 

[Topher]

No lies detected on the thread tittle.

There is a very real reason why budgets grow, it's because there is also a bigger expectation of sold units.
There is nothing stopping devs to make a great game with "smaller" budgets, you can see a really big gap between production values and budgets if you start looking at games,
And even then, high production values don't equal to great game nor commercial success, there is no real reason to be increasing the price of games by the publisher other than increasing revenue.

Games are cheaper than ever now to develop and not the other way around, there are better tools and more people that know how than ever before.

Not sure I buy this argument that games are cheaper to make. Yes, tools are cheaper. Talent is not. Not sure we have enough data though to say one way or another on how much it typically costs to make an AAA game versus, say, ten years ago.

 

[Robb]

I agree that there’s very little to rationalize the price increase with. But as long as publishers don’t see demand decrease they’ll keep hiking those prices just because they can.

Can’t really blame them, I’d probably do the same given the opportunity. Why earn less?

 

[xellos2099alpha]

I agree that there’s very little to rationalize the price increase with. But as long as publishers don’t see demand decrease they’ll keep hiking those prices just because they can.

Can’t really blame them, I’d probably do the same given the opportunity. Why earn less?

There are ways around like buying used or wait for target buy 2 get 1 free deal. THere are deals around to made games less than $70, you just have to look for it.

 

[Fuz]

Imagine believing billionarie CEOs when they say that they need more money.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Who the fuck is stupid enough to pay $70..

It'll be $45 or less in no time

 

[Robb]

you just have to look for it.

Definitely, I have yet to buy any game for $70.

 

[Markio128]

I’ll spend my own money how I see fit, but thanks for your concern.

 

[Topher]

Definitely, I have yet to buy any game for $70.

Me either. But that will probably change next month. But it is ok. It is my money.

 

[Trogdor1123]

It has stopped me from buying so much, it’s $90 for a new game in Canada. That isn’t a huge amount of money but it isn’t a small amount either. There are so many games out now that we don’t need to pay $90 either unless you have some kind of fomo or need to be somewhere day 1

 

[Keihart]

Not sure I buy this argument that games are cheaper to make. Yes, tools are cheaper. Talent is not. Not sure we have enough data though to say one way or another on how much it typically costs to make an AAA game versus, say, ten years ago.

There is no way a shortage of talent, this would be like arguing that movies are expensive to make because you need Brad Pit on your movie or something.

 

[Ellery]

To be fair you save so much money from gamepass that a 70$ game every now and then is okay.

I paid that much for Elden Ring too and my gamepass is still running for 2 more months on 1$.

 

[Topher]

There is no way a shortage of talent, this would be like arguing that movies are expensive to make because you need Brad Pit on your movie or something.

Yes, there is a shortage of talent.

"However, there remains one factor that is stunting the exponential growth of the industry: its talent shortfall. There simply isn't enough talent such as artists, engineers, and producers to keep up with the demands of a fast-growing industry, or the competition from other creative sectors. Game companies are now looking to source and upskill from a wider talent pool, highlighting that a career in this industry can be fulfilling, exciting, and long-term with diverse paths available."

How game developers can better respond to the talent crisis

The games industry has expanded at enormous speed over the past couple of years, generating total revenues of $180.3 bi…

www.gamesindustry.biz

And I didn't say this is why games are expensive to make. I think it probably a factor, but we don't have information to suggest games are "cheaper than ever" to make either. Unless you have some information you would like to share.

 

[Keihart]

Yes, there is a shortage of talent.

"However, there remains one factor that is stunting the exponential growth of the industry: its talent shortfall. There simply isn't enough talent such as artists, engineers, and producers to keep up with the demands of a fast-growing industry, or the competition from other creative sectors. Game companies are now looking to source and upskill from a wider talent pool, highlighting that a career in this industry can be fulfilling, exciting, and long-term with diverse paths available."

How game developers can better respond to the talent crisis

The games industry has expanded at enormous speed over the past couple of years, generating total revenues of $180.3 bi…

www.gamesindustry.biz

And I didn't say this is why games are expensive to make. I think it probably a factor, but we don't have information to suggest games are "cheaper than ever" to make either. Unless you have some information you would like to share.

Short of googling for articles about it, i think it would be evident to claim so by the rising quality of games made with little to no budget and how the games with the biggest budgets don't have the best production values.
What you can clearly see tho is the growing expectations of sold units per game, what used to be a block buster with 2M units it's now considered a successfull AA game at best.

The problem as i see it is everyone wanting to sell 10M units and shit.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Going from current inflation rates, games should be $100 each by now.

I think it's hilarious that people bitch about $70 games but then also complain that the mobile space has games which are free to play and you pay for microtransactions. You can't have it both ways! Game studios and publishers need to make money somehow!

 

[Robb]

Game studios and publishers need to make money somehow!

Seems like most are making more than ever and have found plenty of solutions for squeezing more money out of consumers with everything from MTX and battle passes to loot boxes etc. etc.

Even if prices were to increase to $100 you can be sure they will never stop with those now established practices (they’d probably continue to come up with even more) so they’d only be making more.

 

[PhaseJump]

My father told me he bought his first house for $17,000.

I have that beat. Living in Edmonton, I paid 11,000 only a few years ago on the east coast in NS. Small 1bed/1bath 70 year old house on a 50x100 piece of land with a barn, sewer/water. Near the ocean. Good shape.

 

[Captain Toad]

Still stand by my decision to the GamePass route : $70 for any game is bullshit. It's even worse in europe afaik.

That's your choice. I like gaming way too much to spend my free time playing stuff that isn't my first choice in order to save money.

Have you seen the offerings on GamePass lately? It hasn't exactly been must-play selections.

Now, I still have the service, but given the choice between Xenoblade Chronicles, God of War, Elden Ring, etc or Powerwash Simulator, I'll happily pay for the games I want.

 

[Keihart]

Going from current inflation rates, games should be $100 each by now.

I think it's hilarious that people bitch about $70 games but then also complain that the mobile space has games which are free to play and you pay for microtransactions. You can't have it both ways! Game studios and publishers need to make money somehow!

sell 8 million units at 60 each.
complain that they are not making enough money back.
how does that work?

 

[Fake]

Going from current inflation rates, games should be $100 each by now.

I think it's hilarious that people bitch about $70 games but then also complain that the mobile space has games which are free to play and you pay for microtransactions. You can't have it both ways! Game studios and publishers need to make money somehow!

You talk like we're doing a favor or something.

If they can make a really good new game they don't need to worry about raising the price at all. This sittuation just show how devs are insecure about their games. Just whiny over the social media and fanboys will eat at your hand.

A little reminder. They need our money, not the contrary. I will never take the company side... ever.

 

[Captain Toad]

sell 8 million units at 60 each.
complain that they are not making enough money back.
how does that work?

Plenty if AAA games lose money. It's often extremely risky.

If it was as easy as some of you act, the market would increase the competition and the prices would fall. This is basic economic stuff.

 

[Keihart]

Plenty if AAA games lose money. It's often extremely risky.

If it was as easy as some of you act, the market would increase the competition and the prices would fall. This is basic economic stuff.

shouldnt those games then be aiming at smaller target audiences then?
How much are they selling and how much are they expecting to sell?
You can't be selling million units and then be having a problem with revenue, that means that budgets are fucking up somewhere.

 

[DispatchNinja]

It’s beyond beating a dead horse at this point. If you don’t want to spend the extra $10 then just wait for a sale ffs. The same thing other people do with any other consumer product that people find isn’t the right price for them. It’s now been years since the price point was introduced. Accept it and move on already because it’s not going to change.

 

[Captain Toad]

shouldnt those games then be aiming at smaller target audiences then?
How much are they selling and how much are they expecting to sell?
You can't be selling million units and then be having a problem with revenue, that means that budgets are fucking up somewhere.

That's not how the world works. Movies, television, sports, etc. You don't know how well something will perform going in. If you did, obviously you could adjust your budget accordingly or just not do the project altogether.

A big AAA game could cost 100 million dollars to make, advertise, etc. They will need to sell X amount of copies and expect to sell X+Y. But, that's not a guarantee. It might be X-Y and the whole thing could lose millions of dollars even selling a number YOU think is a lot. Or it could sell more than they predict. High risk, high reward.

That's why sequels are so common. They are safer bets, because they are easier to predict sales.

 

[Fake]

Accept it and move on already because it’s not going to change.

Microsoft backtracks on Xbox Live Gold price hike

You’ll also now be able to play games like Fortnite without Gold.

www.theverge.com

We messed up today and you were right to let us know. Connecting and playing with friends is a vital part of gaming and we failed to meet the expectations of players who count on it every day. As a result, we have decided not to change Xbox Live Gold pricing.
We’re turning this moment into an opportunity to bring Xbox Live more in line with how we see the player at the center of their experience. For free-to-play games, you will no longer need an Xbox Live Gold membership to play those games on Xbox. We are working hard to deliver this change as soon as possible in the coming months.
If you are an Xbox Live Gold member already, you stay at your current price for renewal. New and existing members can continue to enjoy Xbox Live Gold for the same prices they pay today. In the US, $9.99 for 1-month, $24.99 for 3-months, $39.99 for 6-months and $59.99 for retail 12-months.
Thank you.

 

[mxbison]

It's not even that expensive. Compare it to pretty much every other hobby.

 

[Keihart]

That's not how the world works. Movies, television, sports, etc. You don't know how well something will perform going in. If you did, obviously you could adjust your budget accordingly or just not do the project altogether.

A big AAA game could cost 100 million dollars to make, advertise, etc. They will need to sell X amount of copies and expect to sell X+Y. But, that's not a guarantee. It might be X-Y and the whole thing could lose millions of dollars even selling a number YOU think is a lot. Or it could sell more than they predict. High risk, high reward.

That's why sequels are so common. They are safer bets, because they are easier to predict sales.

That is exactly how it works, budgets are allocated according to projections.
You don't put a AAA budget on a game about a mail man unless you have Kojima productions behind it making it hilghly probable that is a game that will sell in the millions of units.

If games got budgets based on whatever the teams want to make regardless of the target audience it would be a really different market.

 

[Captain Toad]

http://[URL]https://www.theverge.co...ft-xbox-live-gold-price-increase-reversed-f2p

[/URL]

Not at all the same thing. That was MS doubling the price of something over night and only to try to strong-arm people into their more expensive rental service.

That's not the same as normal price rises to account for inflation or rising development costs.

 

[DispatchNinja]

100% true.

Not my problem that you can’t handle a budget.

Don’t make me (the consumer) pay for it. I didn’t ask for a 300 hours game with every shitty quest they can think of.

Don’t go insane with the budget and cry about “games are ver expensive to make” but actually that cry is a happy cry as they brought inane numbers with Covid and still bringing insane numbers now.

“Support the developer”? What am I a fucking charity? How about lowering the cost of the game and for the dev to actually support ME?

They do lower the price of games, you just have to wait.