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Microsoft really doesnt give a shit about pushing the medium forward. Their approach to winning the gen will reduce the quality of GAMES
- Thread starter Represent.
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Robbinhood
Banned
I'm wondering why there's so many Xbox fans on gaming forums compared to their userbase.
I guess the other fanbases are busy playing games.
I guess the other fanbases are busy playing games.
Kagey K
Banned
What does that say about you?
pasterpl
Member
We rarely see essays like the one in OP from Xbox fans. Usually it is blue team that cannot stand anything MS related and creat these doom threads about MS/Xbox/Gamepass etc at quite high frequency.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This argument makes NO motherfucking sense. What’s the one thing that differentiates the two consoles, since like you’ve pointed out you can play the same 3rd party games on both systems? It’s the exclusives! Duh. Your logic makes no sense.
You may personally not care that Sony is the only company putting out high quality exclusives but you speak for other Xbox owners using that bizarre logic. I would expect most Xbox owners, like myself who are aware of the abysmal output from MS to be disappointed like I am. How could you not wish for as much exclusives on Xbox? You could’ve bought a ps5 and had those same games plus 10 different exclusives by now compared to MS with just Halo, forza 5, and flight sim. Those are the only big budget games released recently (not that recent) that compare.
I bought series X and have a ps5 and after the fun of forza 5 and halo Infinite (which i find incredibly disappointing) there’s nothing new taking advantage of this powerful new system i bought. Ive gotten the most enjoyment with the Gears 5 update actually. MS has been failing big time insofar as delivering on a next gen system! Starfield would’ve saved things but this delay hurts. Where are all these games we’ve been hearing about for so long?
There should be release dates announced by now for Redfall and Forza Motorsport. Hellblade 2 should be slated for a late ‘23/early 24- where is that? Forget Avowed, Perfect Dark, Fable and Gears 6 since these are sounding like 2024-2025 games.
In this draught period why isn’t MS working on Backwards Compatability? All those FPS boosted games that run at 1080p with One S settings could be getting patched to run at the One X settings the should be! Sunset overdrive, ryse, and Dead Rising 3 never even got the BC treatment! Why did MS shut down Bc program before doing these things?
So much disappointment from MS if u ask me.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That it is awarded to the publisher with the highest average metacritic ratings across their titles?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I’ve noticed this not just here but on other forums. And it’s like you never see it from Nintendo fans. I don’t get why Sony fans can’t just be content with being the #1 console around. It’s like that yearbook quote, “it’s not just that I should succeed, others should fail” or however it goes. Cmon people, be better.
Swift_Star
Banned
Lol? What do you think this is?
This cringe justification for MS’ action is worse than OP’s post by far.
Post in thread 'Washington Post: Phil Spencer interview on the Activision deal and more'
https://www.resetera.com/threads/wa...activision-deal-and-more.542051/post-80640275
GHG
Member
lachesis
Member
I think we need to define what “forward” really is in order to say anything. MS’s aggressive move to broaden the audience could mean forward, but at the same time, it could mean a devastation on traditional distribution of gaming medium.
Sony’s push to make cinematic games and storytelling + more ubiquitous approach to media could mean advancement to some folks, but it could mean regression to some others who value more traditional interaction of gaming aspect.
Nintendo’s blue ocean strategy could mean good traditional gaming to some people - but their lack of technological prowress could mean regression/stale gaming for some people.
Sony’s push to make cinematic games and storytelling + more ubiquitous approach to media could mean advancement to some folks, but it could mean regression to some others who value more traditional interaction of gaming aspect.
Nintendo’s blue ocean strategy could mean good traditional gaming to some people - but their lack of technological prowress could mean regression/stale gaming for some people.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
You're making the baseless assumption SH2 was up for grabs, and not something that came later for Sony or that Sony already got.
it also shows the Silent Hill franchise "viability" delusion is still alive and well. It's very likely based on franchise sales that even IF there was a choice MS made the decision more likely to sell and make money. But that even assuming they even had a choice. People don't seem to get how bad SH actually sold post first game.
They were. Tomb Raider did high sales, and the sequel did well despite not moving as many Xboxes as they though. Made perfect sense to make the deal, and it's not much different from Sony's FF7R one year deal, which did as far as we know based on Squares announcements so far, worse than Tomb Raider 1 remake did before MS made the deal for Shadow of the TR.
This is something people say but can't support, because their first party after Kinect was still good up until Phil took full control late 2014, with the roots being planted in 2015.
I said this in the Don Matrrick vs. Phil games thread and the same people thumbing up your post attacking me there by defending Phil with every excuse except for the thread topic which was about games.
Some users consistency here, whew.
Gamerguy84
Member
They don't carry about moving anything forward. They are like other companies and care about money. That's a little weird too because they seem to be committing to some 20 year plan, not counting the two decades they've already spent.
It’s ok to be happy with the software available on a platform even if that software is also available on another platform. It’s possible to play and enjoy games that are not exclusive.
Playstation doesn’t have to suffer for xbox to be doing well, and vice-versa. People who only focus on exclusive, first party games are missing out on a significant amount of content for whatever platform it is that they prefer.
Yes MS could have released more first party games, but honestly if you have an xbox and you’re struggling to find fun games to play then your tastes are so very specific that I’d be surprised if you like any console really.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This post is the worst one youve ever done. You linked to the purple site and worse you made me click...fucker
Dick Jones
Gold Member
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Naked Lunch
Member
One of the worst OPs in GAF history.
Congrats.
Simply pathetic and embarrassing.
At least theres enough level headed GAFers to shoot this shitty mess down. I salute yall.
Congrats.
Simply pathetic and embarrassing.
At least theres enough level headed GAFers to shoot this shitty mess down. I salute yall.
Thebonehead
Banned
Embrace and channel your inner furry.This post is the worst one youve ever done. You linked to the purple site and worse you made me click...fucker
Kagey K
Banned
Weirdly you say this, yet they are the ones that have shown more commitment to preserving thier history and previous consoles than anyone else currently.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Embrace and channel your inner furry.
ProtoByte
Member
Pentiment, developed by Obsidian, got the greenlight because of Gamepass, and yet a bunch of no-name Estonian tankies managed to put out and make money of off the much more elaborate and acclaimed Disco Elysium by selling the game? Which wasn't some newly broken ground by the time it released anyway? Give me a break.
Neither of those games are new things. Pscychonauts 2 is quite literally an uprezzed PS2 3D platformer, which is not bad but quite literally the opposite of new; and Microsoft can't take much of any credit considering that game was in development years before they came along and bought Double Fine.
Comments like this and the above are why we need to be careful about using phrases like "pushing the medium forward". That insinuates "innovation" or doing something "new". Thats not what's at stake here.
The things at stake here are present and potential quality and a certain subset of games "genres" that can't exist under a subscription model long term.
To answer your questions
Humdinger
:1. Publishers are fine with putting their games on Gamepass right now because a disproportionate majority of their revenue in the console space (probably + PC when it's all said and done) comes from PlayStation and has done since late 7th gen. They get a nice fee from Microsoft, instead of paying out 30% of however many sales on Xbox they would get to them instead. But you notice that most of them will not do it with games that "matter" to their portfolio. Most of the library that gets day one Gamepass deals are small titles from small studios, or intermediate titles that were never going to sell shit on Xbox anyway. See: Scarlet Nexus, for example. The "big" titles that do get on are the ones that have bombed or severely underperformed already. This happened with Guardians of The Galaxy months after release. And even then, it's really not that many. The supermajority of Gamepass' library is comprised of old games.
Publishers will be less fine with releasing the same kinds of games they are now if subscriptions become the main mode of commerce for the industry. Whatever you want to say about the types of games Ubisoft or Activision produces, they can only produce those games because there's a baseline payment per unit they'll get from a select title, because people will have to buy it to play it.
There's simply no way that even a 15 dollar subscription for 100s of games brings in the same amount of revenue as 70, 60, or even lower than that in dollars per game, per unit. The math just doesn't add up. And there will never be enough people paying high enough a price to flip the values in that equation. Even now, however many subscribers Gamepass does have is buttressed by heavy discount deals going all the way down to 1 dollar from months worth of the subscription; some people are just about in the last stages of their 3-years-for-1-dollar deals.
2. You're right. The function of the films market is fundamentally different from games. So while I agree with
Represent.
at the base level, we (again) need to be careful about how we're formulating this argument.What Damon is talking about is not risk. There's been more of those movies than can be counted. He's talking about a certain kind of movie that no longer has much of a place in the theater. The theaters are now subsumed by mostly 4-quadrant blockbusters that have some kind of IP attached to them.
The type of movie Damon's talking about will still get made, but it will go on Netflix if it wants a chance at relevance beyond movie-buffs. Marriage Story is a really good example. But there are less of them being made before; and they're getting replaced by television series that take the mold of having a story about mundane things and delving deeper into them for longer periods of time. Thry can go on for multiple seasons, and/or be a weekly series that builds in conversation and relevance over time. Think You in place of Fatal Attraction or Bridgerton instead of Little Women with Winona Ryder and Christian Bale.
But even then, it's more competitive to grab eyes and retain attention - and while some of that actually benefits the viewer by pushing creatives to give viewers what they want at a higher quality, but some of it also incentives cheap tricks. "How are we going to write this scene to be suitable for a TikTok edit?" Instead of "How does this scene jibe with the story and characters that we've built so far". And it's easiest to go with the latter.
Before, Netflix was throwing billions into the word chipper to get as much of everything as they could. Now, when the debt's built up, and the return on investment is calling, "The Days of the Blank Cheque" are over (https://archive.vn/RXTq8). And you might no like what Netflix priorities in order to keep people engaged with and subscribed to their service. Television has always relied on a stream of revenue as opposed to upfront payment, but the Netflix (alone in and of itself, not just as a model) was to bring in more revenue and more profit than could be imagined, whilst also providing more "creative freedom" and unlimited budgets forever. But we know that that isn't the case. The markets basically reestablished the cable TV model, only now its fragmented from company to company.
But whatever positives or negatives you can take from films, you can dial down to almost nothing and supe up to 11 respectively for video games. Again, as you point out, the finances are very different, but I'll further amend your statement. High budgets games are risky inherently because of their budget, and highest budget, largest scale games that the industry could produce at a given time, that put forward stories and characters that resonated somehow have (almost) always been the most competitive and relevant games. That is the model of game that stands the test of time, the kind that the IP we're still hung on today was.
The small stuff isn't risky. It's just not worth doing as much. I would also say that there's a reason for that, and that when every small, "indie" game (that's partnered with this console manufacturer/publisher or that) is cribbing from the same wall of ideas, be that farming simulators, isometric roguelikes or SNES nostalgia 2D platformers, I really don't see why they should be put on some kind of creative pedestal.
Gamepass is a model that gives shielding and face to games that people would not pay for otherwise. And in order to make money, it needs to have an engagement-heavy library. Unfortunately, the most engagement heavy games - not the ones that necessarily sell the most, but the ones that have the most concurrent players and have very high playtime averages beyond a campaign - are also the games that make the lowest effort to bring in the most amount of money. Cheap dopamine triggers that are more designed around FOMO and obligating the player to their economies than around gameplay loops, mechanics or level design; that subsist off of cosmetic microtransactions and being whatever Twitch has decided should be relevant this quarter. Games where the "fun" is something you have to make, and/or is made by messing around with friends, which is hard to fuck up. The games that maintain goodwill on impossible promises of what will come in the future. The games with the lowest barriers to entry (registrations) that appeal to the lowest common denominator.
That Sea of Thieves designer said it himself, in that video that Crowbcat deleted because "Sea of Thieves is 'good now, years after it came out."
"It's not just about the player, it's about the viewer too."
We saw the generation Bioware wasted on Anthem. We saw how Rockstar has hooked themselves on GTA Online. Publishers are already trying their damnest to replicate Destiny, Fortinte, Genshin Impact with studios who are not built for it.
With the subscription model, it'll become less of an incentive, and more of a necessity. Games take more time, more effort and money to develop than films or movies. It'll do a lot more damage to this medium. What's at stake here is how the game industry has functioned for over 35 years.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Edgelord79
Gold Member
HoofHearted
Member
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Joke post. Nothing embarrassing about calling a mega corporation out. The embarrassing thing is people who cant admit any flaws in their fav console manufacturer.
Shadowstar39
Member
A 6c 12 thread ryzen coupled with a dedicated Ampere Gpu is faster and more powerful than my ps5. I know I own a 3600 4.2ghz cpu, 3060ti, 16gb ddr4 and m2 Gen4 ssd. Can get better settings out of that. Although ps5 is not far behind.how many people in the PC space have an SSD that is faster than Series X/S have? A lot of them still use sata SSD, even HDD to store their games.
Now imagine devs requiring CPU of Series X/PS5 as minimum requirements while a lot of builds still fall between 4c/8threads || 6c/12threads even lower tbh. Profit goes bye bye, ez casual pc builds slideshow gameplay
It's an apu so it's not apples to apples comparison. A 12 thread cpu is still better than what's in the consoles.
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I can think of ONE studio in SONY's arsenal that meets this. Off the top of my head they've released: Horizon, GoT, GoW (reboot), TLOU, Bloodborne, Returnal, and Spiderman as new IP's within the last decade, with returning favorites of R&C and UC. I'm sure I've got "recentness bias" and am forgetting the smaller titles and remakes, but of those only ND even matches the bolded.
. . .feels like another one of those opinions that "seems right" but that you just aren't interested in digging deeper on.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
So... cinematic Sony games will "move the industry forward" huh?
Batiman
Banned
Besides GOW I agree. And GOW still suffers from some of their standard formula but it’s just fun. Bring me back ps1-ps2 Sony
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is an excellent post and dont let fanboys convince you otherwise.Seeing that damn Series S ad just now just ... lol
They tried the "release good games, sell consoles" approach Sony and Nintendo have been successful at for years, and it didn't win them the gen. So what did they do? They switched their entire focus to "services" and "value". Not games. Services.
They don't give a damn about advancing the medium we love. That ship seems to have sailed. It does not seem important to them anymore.
Poor studio management, entire calendar years without first party releases. Not investing in new IP, same promises every year, telling us to wait.
They make stupid fucking decisions:
They show up to a gameshow with 103 million viewers with a Gamepass Ad. Not a single update on a single game. Some of these games were announced in 2019.
- Money hatting The Mid instead Silent Hill 2 (same devs).
- Turning down Spider-Man as an exclusive on their platform.
- Spending 100 million dollars on 1 year of Tomb Raider exclusivity. Sony bought Insomniac for 200 million. Be smarter.
They push the Series S (an underpowered budget console that, despite whatever Kool-Aid some Indie Studio head tells you to drink, will be responsible for limiting the potential of multiplat games for an entire generation) more than the Series X.
Phil's strategy is to literally buy out publishers, then put their most popular games on every. single. platform. From literal goddamn TV apps, to mobile, to weak machines like the Nintendo Switch.
If it was up to MS, they would buy Take 2, then require all GTA games to release on the Switch moving forward- Scaled down and downgraded to hell. Ambition and fidelity across all platforms would have to be limited. But hey, it sells, and gives gamers "options". Who fucking cares. Make a mindblowing product and sell it to its target audience. If you need to reach a more casual, younger audience... then invest in NEW IP.
Alright, Gamepass.
I'm not even going to mention much about this abomination. I'm going to let Matt Damon do the talking. Watch this clip.
Why Matt Damon thinks CINEMA is DYING #shorts
Have a short screenplay you wish to turn into a film or get feedback on from Oscar winning screenwriters? Submit it to our shorts competition: https://writer...youtube.com
Theres a cost for everything. You have to be blind or naive to not see the parallels between what is happening in Hollywood and what will happen with Gamepass.
Just replace those DVD's with games (and people no longer buying them because of Gamepass) and replace those types of movies he's referring to with: Quality AAA titles, new AAA IP, experimental AAA titles, etc. If the "Netflix of Games" becomes a reality, then studios will NOT see the need to, or be brave enough to green light certain games. Point blank. You are already seeing gamers complain about paying $70 for games. It will get worse as the gamepass model contiunes to grow. You can kiss your Hollywood Blockbuster AAA style games goodbye.
It seems Microsoft, especially as of late, has switched their focus entirely. What was once "make great games, sell them, invest in new IP to reach new audiences" approach is now a "make every single game playable everywhere, for free, regardless of quality."
This approach will hold the medium back. It will stagnant creativity, growth. Tech won't stop advancing, but NO ONE will be utilizing said tech to its full potential. Advancements in games will be hard to notice, devs will have to scale back their visions - All to make kids, casual gamers who keep FIFA, Madden and COD #1 for all of eternity happy while you and I play second fiddle and get fed sloppy seconds.
Phil needs to go.
There are a couple of things I wanted to address. Your point about them focusing on Fifa, Madden, kids and casual gamers over pushing the industry forward. I think we are already seeing that with them entering into a contract to put CoD on Nintendo consoles for the next 10 years. Switch 2 is supposedly 1.3 tflops in handheld mode. Same as Xbox One. So until 2033, we are going to be getting a COD built around the Switch 2 or Xbox One specs. The same xbox one that was dated in 2013.
If that doesnt get people riled up, nothing will. And it's not just them. Just look at what Sony did with MLB The Show last year. This was their SECOND year and no next gen graphics or gameplay improvements. Why? Because they spent all their time porting it on the switch. How fucking aggravating is that? People should be rioting at the fact that the switch held back the PS5 version of the game. I paid $500 for this fucking console and they dare tie a first party sports franchise to a shitty 0.19 tflops console? Are you fucking kidding me?
So yeah, it's not just MS. Sony is doing the same thing. Their exec is literally going out there saying the same shit MS exec were saying last gen. He wants TLOU to be played by 400 million gamers. Dude there are a 150 million PS4s and PS5s out there and you are struggling to sell 10 million units of TLOU2 at $10. What makes you think switch, PC and xbox owners will get you to 400 million?
And if you want to blame MS for refusing to push the medium forward, lets not forget that Nintendo is holding back their devs with a 0.19 tflops console in 2023. With specs worse than an Xbox 360 in 2005. Nintendo's big wins this gen were BOTW and Odyssey in 2017. Since then its been a bunch of games that dont even come close to the level of quality and ambition as those two. It's been almost 6 years since BOTW launched. thats an entire gen. What has Nintendo done to push the industry forward? Animal Crossing? Xenoblade? Bayonetta? Luigi's Mansion? Really?
I hate MS as much as the next guy, but after seeing Nintendo's underwhelming output since Odyssey and Sony's safe formulaic and equally underwhelming sequels and remakes in 2022, I am not sure if they should get a pass. They are better than MS, but everything you criticize them for underpowered consoles, moneyhatting, chasing casuals at the expense of progress, services, are done by Sony and Nintendo.
And I am gonna go one step ahead and make some real enemies. Capcom, FromSoft and every other dev who is releasing last gen games in 2023 are culpable in holding the industry back. 3 years in and they refuse to make next gen games. GTFO. It's not just MS. It's everyone.
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darrylgorn
Member
Swift_Star
Banned
Go figure…
BlackTron
Member
This was the moment everything changed for them. The moment they changed focus from games to experiences, to now services. Since this image released their first party output has been abysmal.
Nintendo really confused and blindsided them with the Wii. Just think, the Wii influenced them down the wrong path that culminated in where we are today. Sony was also hastened into getting out PS Move but they didn't make it such an integral part of the system's identity, even launching the 360's successor with forced Kinect bundled in...Nintendo punted the less experienced competitor for generations.
Iced Arcade
Member
That theory doesn't work in your prefered toys favor
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FalsettoVibe
Member
Quoting myself from earlier....
I swear man...."cinematic games" is the new "too many trees". lol
Y'all need some more better ammo.
Neff
Member
Microsoft's opportunistic cynicism and lack of understanding of the games industry has always been an issue, but now more than ever.
The times it's worked for them seem like a fluke more than anything, because they can never stick to one strategy. Be it chasing the hardcore gamer audience, switching gears to chasing the casual audience with motion controls, flirting with the cloud, TV, then going all-in on service-based gaming... it's like they still don't know what their bread and butter is so they just keep trying different shit.
They seem to have a lot of cool stuff on the horizon (Starfield is a day one for me), so I'm hoping they haven't completely lost it, but if it weren't for Retroarch and backwards compatibility I simply wouldn't ever switch my Series X on.
The times it's worked for them seem like a fluke more than anything, because they can never stick to one strategy. Be it chasing the hardcore gamer audience, switching gears to chasing the casual audience with motion controls, flirting with the cloud, TV, then going all-in on service-based gaming... it's like they still don't know what their bread and butter is so they just keep trying different shit.
They seem to have a lot of cool stuff on the horizon (Starfield is a day one for me), so I'm hoping they haven't completely lost it, but if it weren't for Retroarch and backwards compatibility I simply wouldn't ever switch my Series X on.
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OuterLimits
Member
The Last of Us: post apocalyptic linear with zombies
Horizon: post apocalyptic open world with machines
Days Gone: post apocalyptic open world with zombies
Those games are good but i must admit i miss the days when Sony made/published many smaller budget yet extremely unique games. They developed and/or published many such titles from the PS1 through the PS3 days.(also PSP, and much lesser extent Vita)
I have tons of criticisms in regards to Microsoft. However they appear to be supporting some unique small budget yet high quality games. They aren't big sellers but make GamePass more appealing.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Huh?
Sony has had plenty this year (Sifu/Stray), and have a new VR platform with tons of smaller budget games with unique gameplay
Dust-by-Monday
Member
TLOU2 was pretty much the best game I've ever played. They didn't play it safe. I liked that. The gameplay, graphics and animations were just years ahead of anything else.
akimbo009
Gold Member
Those are just paid for exclusives by PlayStation, not Sony published games....
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Plus Stray was published by Annapurna games, tells you all you need to know about that game.
/s
OuterLimits
Member
Sony used to develop and publish games in every genre imaginable. From giant budget games to small. Their focus now is primarily big budget cinematic games. VR is interesting and hopefully they go fully all in on that even if sales of their upgrade end up being underwhelming.
RafterXL
Member
If Sony is so great and Microsoft is so shit, why do you Sony fanboys always shit themselves over it? Are you that scared of the future?...is that why you have to constantly talk about how horrible the competition to your toy of choice is?
Who are you guys trying to convince, us or yourselves? Because you seem really insecure about it all.
Who are you guys trying to convince, us or yourselves? Because you seem really insecure about it all.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
What’s the distinction if those games don’t get greenlit without an exclusivity deal?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
akimbo009
Gold Member
They are also on PC.
DavidGzz
Member
It isn't surprising with his take on Elden Ring and thinking that GoW would take game of the year. So many shit takes lol
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