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[sainraja]

Japan favored their own products even when the US goods were superior, which for many decades they were (just as demonstrability if not more so). Not saying it's right or wrong, just that it was a thing that happened in the first half of the 20th century.

You jumped into an exchange between me and GHG about Xbox systems being sold because they were American, with some shade thrown in about Americans buying inferior products because they were "American". That was the only discussion I ever entertained regarding this topic.

Way to go! Turning this into a Japanese vs American thing.

 

[Aguero9320]

The only real surprise here to me is that they have chosen to make this public on its own. I guess they are trying to set expectations for the final decision.

It’s only really a surprise if you bought into all the ‘deal’s dead’ and ‘CMA already rejected anything but divesting’ stuff that was repeated over and over on here. Or believed that Microsoft and ABK’s lawyers and leadership were ‘amateurs’.

Hopefully it closes quickly now and we can all move on.

 

[XesqueVara]

 

[sainraja]

The difference is buying a successful studio/puvlisher and buying and making into a success

And the answer to your question is Sony Santa Monica built from ground up within Sony, also Team Asobi, Sony San Diego, London Studio, Polyphony Digital,

People will downplay this and will turn this into some type of console war narrative, but that is mostly true. The majority of studios Sony acquired were long-term partners or studios that primarily worked with them.

I wouldn't count Square-Enix to be the same, if Sony were to acquire them but for the rest, that is pretty much true. Yeah, now that we have acquisition wars happening, people will point to Bungie as some sort of a gotcha but their partnership with Sony is also a unique one where they will continue to do what they have been doing and retain independence.

 

[freefornow]

Jimbo trying to sign 10 year COD deal

 

[Flutta]

Yeah. All of that. Plus Sony pretty much destroyed SEGA back in the day, and it's time they get what's been coming for decades!

SEGA destroyed itself…… how many times do we need to tell you that?

 

[GHG]

The only real surprise here to me is that they have chosen to make this public on its own. I guess they are trying to set expectations for the final decision.

It’s only really a surprise if you bought into all the ‘deal’s dead’ and ‘CMA already rejected anything but divesting’ stuff that was repeated over and over on here. Or believed that Microsoft and ABK’s lawyers and leadership were ‘amateurs’.

Hopefully it closes quickly now and we can all move on.

As per their process they aren't allowed to make any decisions and then come out and say "surprise motherfucker". Everything is an ongoing process until it's concluded. Even upon their final decision there will be time and opportunities for people to appeal if necessary.

They have again opened their inbox until the end of the month for responses to their latest provisional findings and then they have until this time next month to come to any final conclusions and make adjustments dependant on what comes up between now and then.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah. All of that. Plus Sony pretty much destroyed SEGA back in the day, and it's time they get what's been coming for decades!

That’s not true. Sega couldn’t compete once MS entered the scene. Had nothing to do with Sony.

 

[Warablo]

Lets watch the shills narrative the second MS makes COD exclusive .... as I fully expect then to do as soon as the existing contracts are over.. and will happily eat crow if Im wrong

Same with Bungie's IP

It's just business

 

[Aguero9320]

As per their process they aren't allowed to make any decisions and then come out and say "surprise motherfucker".

They have again opened their inbox until the end of the month for responses to their latest provisional findings and then they have until this time next month to come to any final conclusions and make adjustments dependant on what comes up between now and then.

That makes sense, I guess they only really exercise that for substantive changes/revisions though, which this undoubtedly is. Thanks!

 

[sainraja]

Same with Bungie's IP

It's just business

Nah, it's not exactly the same. Bungie has published what they are going to do with their IP on their own website under Sony and have said it will be multi-platform. Bungie made a deal with Sony that they were OK with doing. Sony needed their expertise for service-based games.

Both parties are getting something from the other. It just wasn't "exclude this platform" or "that platform."

 

[suspicious mind]

Any PS owner who is aware of these proceedings that goes on to buy COD, when they can just play it for "free" in Game Pass, is quite literally, an idiotic paypig. And I mean that.

Microsoft is counting on them to offset any potential revenue losses of having a game like COD Day 1 in Game Pass. That's how such a strategy becomes feasible. So people on another platform buying the game are just enabling that strategy and are foolish enough to think their purchase in that situation stands for something honorable, when it's just helping the people on the service get that same content at a significantly lower cost.

Well thats the real reason people be hating on gamepass but glad you figured it out i guess.

 

[Topher]

Jimbo trying to sign 10 year COD deal

That one never gets old

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

<sigh> Guess I'll have to write something. Do they even take in writings from non-UK citizens?

 

[Topher]

<sigh> Guess I'll have to write something.

Oh shit....

 

[GHG]

<sigh> Guess I'll have to write something. Do they even take in writings from non-UK citizens?

No but that didn't stop SenjutsuSage . He even got an acknowledgement apparently.

Lets go.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Japan favored their own products even when the US goods were superior, which for many decades they were (just as demonstrability if not more so). Not saying it's right or wrong, just that it was a thing that happened in the first half of the 20th century.

What US products were superior? You have to list some actual examples, at least that much. And I'm mainly only interested in the realm of electronics. Don't underplay the impact of brand familiarity; again in this case it would be people choosing products that just incidentally happen to be from Japanese companies. It doesn't necessarily mean them buying it simply because the company is Japanese.

You jumped into an exchange between me and GHG about Xbox systems being sold because they were American, with some shade thrown in about Americans buying inferior products because they were "American". That was the only discussion I ever entertained regarding this topic.

Well I wasn't aware of that ongoing discussion; this thread is moving fast. But you already know my stance on that one I guess: I doubt most Americans were buying Xboxes simply because they were from an "American" company.

But it's a bit funny you can accept that but not similar for Japanese customers buying consoles and electronics simply because they perceived them to be better and incidentally happened to be made by Japanese companies. For whatever reason you're still gung-ho on assuming they only bought those products because they were Japanese :/

 

[Banjo64]

Way to go! Turning this into a Japanese vs American thing.

Did you miss the Washington rep yesterday who was fed a line?

 

[Banjo64]

The only real surprise here to me is that they have chosen to make this public on its own. I guess they are trying to set expectations for the final decision.

They have to.

It’s only really a surprise if you bought into all the ‘deal’s dead’ and ‘CMA already rejected anything but divesting’ stuff that was repeated over and over on here. Or believed that Microsoft and ABK’s lawyers and leadership were ‘amateurs’.

Some of the information that’s guided this decision is because Microsoft submitted new projections and what I presume (they’re redacted) sales figures. Nothing to do with some masterclass from their legal team.

Hopefully it closes quickly now and we can all move on.

 

[GHG]

Did you miss the Washington rep yesterday who was fed a line?

A line of what though?

 

[vargas117259]

why are you even surprise

 

[M1chl]

curious

 

[Astray]

Meaning that Microsoft couldn't do exclusive DLC for CoD on Xbox.

We don't know that, Microsoft requested redaction on the contracts for a reason.

 

[sainraja]

Did you miss the Washington rep yesterday who was fed a line?

Hmm lol, I am afraid to ask but what did I miss?

 

[Warablo]

Does it even matter? Phil Spencer stated multiple times they were not taking COD from PlayStation.

It somewhat matters for parity, but I can see them not signing a deal to see if Microsoft makes themselves look bad.

But who knows what the contract says, like Sony wanting a cut for cross play and Microsoft not allowing that.

 

[b6a6es]

PlayStation is Sony. They fade into irrelevance as a consumer business without it. What you're suggesting is like saying Disney should sell Mickey Mouse

While what’s your saying might make sense, I doubt Sony Group’s CEO would agree with you


Here’s what he had to say about *PS4’s dominance*

Regarding Sony Group’s relationship with SIE

All the meanwhile other Sony divisions are making their own games, some of which are Literally Skipping Playstation outright like (Mamiya’s cooking being Switch Exclusive from Sony Music Japan, and Ghostbusters VR being Meta Quest Exclusive from Columbia pictures games, both of which are owned by Sony)

Mind you, to this day the Sony Group’s CEO (not Jimbo, aka the Sony’s Phil Spencer) Haven’t commented Even Once about the ABK Deal despite how much of an Existential Threat it is to his *main business as you say*

Meanwhile you have the 3 trillion Dollar CEO literally willing to Clown himself in mainstream media about Sony’s dominance in Japan just to get this deal done, Satya Nadella Sincerely got my utmost respect for that alone

(I bet he’s the one singing that awful MLB publishing deal /s)

Imo it’s very clear that Sony Group’s CEO and his board of directors doesn’t see Playstation and it’s business as a main Pillar of their Entertainment vision compared to Pictures/Music/Anime etc but rather a way to funnel its profits over the years into those businesses, unlike both Microsoft & Nintendo , Sony Group is a Conglomerate, their main relations with their subsidiary is nearly purely financial with little to no collaboration in many cases

This is thier Profit split between divisions just from last quarter Q3 FY2022 , you can see how their other divisions are doing just about fine

And like i said, Sony selling SIE wouldn’t be the end for their gaming ventures, as they can acquire Bandai Namco, merge it with Crunchyroll/Aniplex and have them becoming an absolute behemoth in Anime & their game licenses with sustainable growth across all platforms & Streaming services without the headaches of maintaining a giant gaming platform that’s vulnerable when it comes to big 3rd party skipping the platform, the last time this happened was in 2011 when Monster Hunter Became a 3DS exclusive skipping the Vita and we all know what happend ever since, Sony quit the handheld business Entirely and eventually changed both their focus & Their Headquarters from Japan to the US, all because they didn’t have any idea (nor the support from Sony Group) how to compete with Pokemon or to compensate for the lack thereof ,and im sure CoD will follow

 

[Yoboman]

Nah, it's not exactly the same. Bungie has published what they are going to do with their IP on their own website under Sony and have said it will be multi-platform. Bungie made a deal with Sony that they were OK with doing. Sony needed their expertise for service-based games.

Both parties are getting something from the other. It just wasn't "exclude this platform" or "that platform."

In the end Sony can do what they want with Bungie, only risks as this acquisition has shown is it can bite you in arguments for future acquisitions.

 

[reksveks]

curious

Feel like I am missing something, you think Phil will be on the podcast soon?

 

[Topher]

It somewhat matters for parity, but I can see them not signing a deal to see if Microsoft makes themselves look bad.

Phil Spencer said there would be content parity as well. Yeah, I think Sony is going to see if Phil honors his word.

 

[reksveks]

I think there will be feature and content parity, I am less sure that Sony will be getting or maybe wanting COD on PS+.

 

[Banjo64]

Hmm lol, I am afraid to ask but what did I miss?

Just the stoking up jingoism

 

[Topher]

I think there will be feature and content parity, I am less sure that Sony will be getting or maybe wanting COD on PS+.

I'm 100% sure Sony doesn't want COD on PS+. They want sales, even if 70% goes to MS.

 

[sainraja]

In the end Sony can do what they want with Bungie, only risks as this acquisition has shown is it can bite you in arguments for future acquisitions.

Sure, they could, but they would risk losing the talent they spent so much money on getting. They might retain the Bungie name, but I dunno, if that would turn out to be a good thing for Sony in the long run; so if things were to change, I think Bungie would have to be party to it as well.

And I think Sony would be stupid to do it, given what has been said.

Just the stoking up jingoism

Ah lol... I guess that is not surprising.

 

[Tygeezy]

Streaming is the future but we're going to need better compression codecs and a lot more people on direct to home fiber.

 

[Ozriel]

Where did I say I want things to stay the same forever? I have no problem with a company like Sony getting knocked down from #1. But I only consider it valid when that's the result of actual competition. I.e Sony not answering the needs of the customer and developer market, and a competitor like Microsoft building software offerings from the ground-up to appeal to more users, providing a hardware & ecosystem solution that naturally attracts more developer support, etc.

They kind of actually got this right with the 360 (although lots of money-hats were involved there), which is why they gained a lot of market share. That was more actual competition than what they're looking to do buying their way to the top through large publisher acquisitions. There is nothing respectable in that, especially when all of the money for it is coming from every other division but Xbox.

I see. So right after a generation that saw Xbox get outsold more than 2:1, your archetype for 'good competition' would have been for them to invest in building first party studios and working to get games out towards the end of the generation. Ensuring the gap would only widen further.

Good thing you're not in charge, eh?

Was Sony San Diego acquired by Microsoft?

I don't see how you missed the part where I implicated people buying those games having full knowledge of transfer of ownership, and knowing their purchase is helping subsidize and enable the same games being in a competitor subscription service Day 1.

So you're saying you disdain people who buy Minecraft Legends and Minecraft Dungeons on PlayStation? Because Mojang is wholly owned by Microsoft.

 

[sainraja]

I'm 100% sure Sony doesn't want COD on PS+. They want sales, even if 70% goes to MS.

They may not want to do it, and they will soon have no control over it, but if COD being on Game Pass is as BIG as some here believe, it may be in their best interests to do so, unless, of course, MS makes it financially impossible for them to do it.

 

[Yoboman]

Sure, they could, but they would risk losing the talent they spent so much money on getting. They might retain the Bungie name, but I dunno, if that would turn out to be a good thing for Sony in the long run; so if things were to change, I think Bungie would have to be party to it as well.

And I think Sony would be stupid to do it, given what has been said.


Ah lol... I guess that is not surprising.

Bungie want to decide their own projects
and Sony will be unlikely to interfere there. But in terms of platform choice, I seriously doubt it is as black and white as made out. For example do you think there is a scenario where Bungie could decide to skip PlayStation? They do have independence afterall. You aren't going to see mass exodus because they are making for less systems anymore than you would at ABK

Sony and Bungie will constantly talking about business goal alignment, and Sony growth is also good for Bungie growth when they are now part of the same organisation

The reality of it is the ABK and Bungie deals were originally announced 10 days apart and the business is changing rapidly

And any of this is well down the line anyway, probably when we learn what MS plans to do after 10 years

 

[Ozriel]

Some of the information that’s guided this decision is because Microsoft submitted new projections and what I presume (they’re redacted) sales figures. Nothing to do with some masterclass from their legal team.

Microsoft exposing the CMA's shoddy math was a big part of this pivot. They admit having to do a recalculation.

That’s not true. Sega couldn’t compete once MS entered the scene. Had nothing to do with Sony.

Dreamcast discontinued March 2001. Xbox released Q4 2001. Explain again how Microsoft killed the Dreamcast with an unreleased console.
Killed by a combination of factors, with the PS2 a major contributor.

 

[Pelta88]

Those that want to turn this into a USA VS Japan thing.

You disgust me.

 

[Banjo64]

Microsoft exposing the CMA's shoddy math was a big part of this pivot. They admit having to do a recalculation.

I know, I still can’t describe that as a lawyer masterclass though. It’s more that the CMA were appalling in their calculations and proof reading.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Well I wasn't aware of that ongoing discussion; this thread is moving fast. But you already know my stance on that one I guess: I doubt most Americans were buying Xboxes simply because they were from an "American" company.

But it's a bit funny you can accept that but not similar for Japanese customers buying consoles and electronics simply because they perceived them to be better and incidentally happened to be made by Japanese companies. For whatever reason you're still gung-ho on assuming they only bought those products because they were Japanese :/

If you could point to the fact of me being gung-ho on anything, I'll address that. LOL

Maybe it is a misconception, but there is a general conception about Japanese consumers preferring their own in American business (basically that the Japanese are extremely finicky in regards to foreign brands they will accept). It's not my position to hold. I'm not saying that Japanese products weren't better in some areas, but I'm not naive enough to believe that Japan was just better at all things full stop. LOL RCA, GE, and Honeywell were leading the world in innovation for decades.

 

[Banjo64]

If you could point to the fact of me being gung-ho on anything, I'll address that. LOL

Maybe it is a misconception, but there is a general conception about Japanese consumers preferring their own in American business (basically that the Japanese are extremely finicky in regards to foreign brands they will accept). It's not my position to hold. I'm not saying that Japanese products weren't better in some areas, but I'm not naive enough to believe that Japan was just better at all things full stop. LOL RCA, GE, and Honeywell were leading the world in innovation for decades.

Doesn’t every nation do that to some extent (favour their own)?

E.g look at popular American car brands (Chevy/Dodge/Chrysler/Tesla) which have practically zero demand in the rest of the world. It’s only Ford that’s penetrated everywhere. But in America these cars are hugely popular.

 

[sainraja]

Bungie want to decide their own projects
and Sony will be unlikely to interfere there. But in terms of platform choice, I seriously doubt it is as black and white as made out. For example do you think there is a scenario where Bungie could decide to skip PlayStation? They do have independence afterall. You aren't going to see mass exodus because they are making for less systems anymore than you would at ABK

Sony and Bungie will constantly talking about business goal alignment, and Sony growth is also good for Bungie growth when they are now part of the same organisation

The reality of it is the ABK and Bungie deals were originally announced 10 days apart and the business is changing rapidly

And any of this is well down the line anyway, probably when we learn what MS plans to do after 10 years

I see your point, and the situation is entirely dynamic and can change at a moment's notice, but I still think they will try to meet what they originally said first before entertaining anything else. By putting their stuff on more platforms they are likely to benefit anyway — as long as everything else is going well.

 

[sainraja]

If you could point to the fact of me being gung-ho on anything, I'll address that. LOL

Maybe it is a misconception, but there is a general conception about Japanese consumers preferring their own in American business (basically that the Japanese are extremely finicky in regards to foreign brands they will accept). It's not my position to hold. I'm not saying that Japanese products weren't better in some areas, but I'm not naive enough to believe that Japan was just better at all things full stop. LOL RCA, GE, and Honeywell were leading the world in innovation for decades.

Yikes. You are doubling down on it.

 

[PaintTinJr]

http://[URL]https://assets.publishi...ion_Addendum_PFs__For_Publication_230324_.pdf

[/URL]

I've only read through the first couple of pages so far, but it reads like they've adjusted the numbers and now find they don't support their previous position strongly, but have kept their view of not want the merger and have retained their position on Cloud and are leaving opportunity for Sony to supply receipts for why the previous calculations were correct in the provisional report.

Does the overall report finish like that, too?

 

[Varteras]

I'm 100% sure Sony doesn't want COD on PS+. They want sales, even if 70% goes to MS.

Yeah, I have my doubts. Sony made it clear how much they make on CoD sales. I think they would rather risk losing some sales from anyone who jumps to Gamepass than lose potentially all of it by being on PS+, while hoping that subs increase so dramatically (they won't) to make up for the lost sales.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Sony should probably sign that 10 year deal. Feels like they’re overplaying their hand now. I wouldn’t rely on phil spencers word, he probably won’t even be there in 5 years.

 

[adamsapple]

I know, I still can’t describe that as a lawyer masterclass though. It’s more that the CMA were appalling in their calculations and proof reading.

Everyone is fallible. For the proponents of this acquisition its probably a big relief that CMA were able to catch and modify their findings.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Yeah. If regulators couldn't block Activision, they can't block anything else.

It's going to be a free-for-all now with Sony, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and Tencent consolidating the industry in the next few years.

Was a good ride.

Nah. MS was in fourth place. Sony being in first place with such market domination will absolutely not be allowed to buy a big publisher. That would be monopolistic behaviour. Amazon however, I fully expect to buy one.

 

[Vasto]