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The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom – Mr. Aonuma Gameplay Demonstration

in Xenoablade 3 you see mechonis sword in distance but you can't got there on foot without loading.
xenoblade-chronicles-3-screenshot-of-fornis-region-and-swordmarch.large.jpg

I still haven't beaten this. I liberated a few colonies,tho. I think I am progressing quite far, at this point. I like taking down enemies higher level than me, if possible. Whenever possible!
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
I'm start to think you dont understand what open world is.

Xenoblade-Chronicles-3-content.jpg

Do you see that dead Uraya in background? You cant go top of that area.
v_AJiIw20suD9otrBaHjM5rd6V0t5QRuFj-RAgwC26s.jpg

Meanwhile in BotW you go to that volcano on foot without any loading.

So you're arguing that Nintendo and Monolith don't know what "open world" means? 😱

It doesn't mean not having unreachable places that are just out-of-bounds background decorations. ALL games do in one shape or the other.

But again, that's irrelevant. As I mentioned (and you conveniently ignored, twice), nowadays even the most massive open-world games don't load into memory any more of the world at the same time than most games with relatively large levels. There's streaming tech that handles that on top of various LOD methods, and that's how games like the Witcher 3 (which have a *much* greater world density than Zelda besides being open-world) are possible.

Looks like you're stuck on semantics because you're unable or unwilling to discuss substance.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
So you're arguing that Nintendo and Monolith don't know what open world means? 😂

It doesn't mean not having unreachable places that are just out-of-bounds background decorations. ALL games do in one shape or the other.

But again, that's irrelevant. As I mentioned (and you conveniently ignored, twice), nowadays even the most massive open-world games don't load into memory anymore of the world at the same time as most games with relatively large levels. There's streaming tech that handles that and that's how games like the Witcher 3 (which have a *much* greater world density than Zelda besides being open-world) are possible.

Looks like you're stuck on semantics because you're unable or unwilling to discuss substance.
First Monolith wasn't trying to make open world with Xenoblade 1-3, they already did with Xenoblade X

Second, have you forgot your original argument? people asked you to show other example of open world game on switch and you mentioned Xenoablade which is NOT open world, if played the game thats pretty damn obvious.

Thrid, Xenoblade world are not as interactive as BotW and also they run on lower resolution, especially Xenoablade 2.
 

Robb

Gold Member
What would you estimate the budget to implement that ability?
Jillian Bell Workaholics GIF by hero0fwar


Jokes aside I’m not sure, but I imagine it must have eaten a lot of development time, for better or worse.

The amount of permutations with just the base set of weapons, shields, arrows, food and materials in BotW is mind boggling, and they’ve probably added even more on top of that for this game. Not to mention the combinations seemingly result in unique traits/abilities.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
First Monolith wasn't trying to make open world with Xenoblade 1-3, they already did with Xenoblade X

Second, have you forgot your original argument? people asked you to show other example of open world game on switch and you mentioned Xenoablade which is NOT open world, if played the game thats pretty damn obvious.

Thrid, Xenoblade world are not as interactive as BotW and also they run on lower resolution, especially Xenoablade 2.

I mentioned plenty of open-world games, and even these are a small part of what's available nowadays.

"not as interactive as BoTW" is a big, big stretch. Even GTAV works on consoles from two generations ago, and it includes a full-fledged city and its surrounding with tons of fully-interactable vehicles and NPCs, including flying (actual flying, not just gliding and falling), and a ton of physical interaction all over the place, all in a world that is an order of magnitude denser than BoTW.

You seem to think that BoTW's "interactions" are somehow more complex and demanding on resources than a full vehicular traffic system and crowds of NPCs (which interact not only with the player, but also each other). That's a very, very, very debatable position.
 
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Eotheod

Member
Tldr because people hate reading; game design is fucking hard, and with systems that perceive to the user as being open-ended are even harder. We are not going to get these crazy concepts everyone wants, it just won't happen when games of this nature and the industry in general is beholden to corporatism/shareholder expectations of delivery.
----
People do understand there is more to development of such a significant game then slapping some art on a model, telling it to let you spin around in a circle and calling it a day right? I have an inkling that most reactions are from points of view that have no actual development understanding of what goes on underneath the hood, and opinions are no doubt welcomed but are no where near factual.

I know it's easier to simplify a game's enormous gameplay mechanics down to basic dot points for ease of discussion to enthusiasts, but it does lose a lot of what makes these games fucking hard to develop. Hell my first game back in uni was a piece of shit top-down arena shooter with AI running around and some simple ass menu systems to navigate, and that took a team of five a year to make. Resources don't always equate to simpler/quicker design and/or bigger, better things.

Otherwise, we get games like Star Citizen that have stupid dev creep and will never "finish" because the next thing to add just because is right around the corner.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
Tldr because people hate reading; game design is fucking hard, and with systems that perceive to the user as being open-ended are even harder. We are not going to get these crazy concepts everyone wants, it just won't happen when games of this nature and the industry in general is beholden to corporatism/shareholder expectations of delivery.
----
People do understand there is more to development of such a significant game then slapping some art on a model, telling it to let you spin around in a circle and calling it a day right? I have an inkling that most reactions are from points of view that have no actual development understanding of what goes on underneath the hood, and opinions are no doubt welcomed but are no where near factual.

I know it's easier to simplify a game's enormous gameplay mechanics down to basic dot points for ease of discussion to enthusiasts, but it does lose a lot of what makes these games fucking hard to develop. Hell my first game back in uni was a piece of shit top-down arena shooter with AI running around and some simple ass menu systems to navigate, and that took a team of five a year to make. Resources don't always equate to simpler/quicker design and/or bigger, better things.

Otherwise, we get games like Star Citizen that have stupid dev creep and will never "finish" because the next thing to add just because is right around the corner.
I take most everyone is busy setting themselves up for disappointment as usual.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
I wish we could go back to the actual video. Talking about the seemingly endless possibilities this game offers in terms of combat approaches, traversal, and just experimenting. It seems very intuitive and easy to create all this stuff I just hope there's more to logs, propellors and wood.

I'm also thinking they will do more presentations like this with different people from the dev teams, and that's why they didn't call it a direct. It could be the game director next showing more of the game.
 

Jessmo23

Banned
I mentioned plenty of open-world games, and even these are a small part of what's available nowadays.

"not as interactive as BoTW" is a big, big stretch. Even GTAV works on consoles from two generations ago, and it includes a full-fledged city and its surrounding with tons of fully-interactable vehicles and NPCs, including flying (actual flying, not just gliding and falling), and a ton of physical interaction all over the place, all in a world that is an order of magnitude denser than BoTW.

You seem to think that BoTW's "interactions" are somehow more complex and demanding on resources than a full vehicular traffic system and crowds of NPCs (which interact not only with the player, but also each other). That's a very, very, very debatable position.

Like I said before. its not just physics and NPCs its systems. Rain systems fire systems. Lightening! If you use a weapon with fire in GTA it just excludes, and make there are running NPS and a blacked texture. In BOTW If I set things on fire, it could be an entire valley which then effects the wind, ect ect.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I wish we could go back to the actual video. Talking about the seemingly endless possibilities this game offers in terms of combat approaches, traversal, and just experimenting. It seems very intuitive and easy to create all this stuff I just hope there's more to logs, propellors and wood.

I'm also thinking they will do more presentations like this with different people from the dev teams, and that's why they didn't call it a direct. It could be the game director next showing more of the game.
This one of the things I'm super excite about this game, its gonna be sooooo fun to mess around with all those systems like fusing different items and building different things.
 
Jillian Bell Workaholics GIF by hero0fwar


Jokes aside I’m not sure, but I imagine it must have eaten a lot of development time, for better or worse.

The amount of permutations with just the base set of weapons, shields, arrows, food and materials in BotW is mind boggling, and they’ve probably added even more on top of that for this game. Not to mention the combinations seemingly result in unique traits/abilities.

My post was about the $10 premium, not about features. The justification of $70 was that the budget of games was getting too high, not that the game is good or the effort into some features.
 

UnNamed

Banned
In the previous videos you see dungeons not present in the BotW, maybe the underworld is as big as the surface, so is the sky. You may build something more complex than boats, maybe even a robot, who knows.

The problems is Aonuma was unable to sell the game with this trailer. What he has shown is pretty standard and the map is the same, with the same "cirque" and the dog in the same position. Not a good way to sell your game.
 
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Marvel14

Banned
Kinda feels like we should have got this sequel 3-4 years ago. And a proper new Zelda coming whenever Switch 2 is out next year.
Wish there was a " nominate for hot take of the year" button. They took a good 5 years to make this on the same BotW engine..its gonna be a proper new Zelda even if we haven't seen enough yet to fully confirm it.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Shadow quality really stood out as being bad too
I couldn't sleep because of it. I just can't believe the shadow quality, all I can think about while he showcased innovative gameplay systems is "Damn, I don't think I can play this game with that awful shadow quality". I don't know what they are thinking, the first thing they should've worked on and test was shadows, it's really what makes a game a goat.
 
You do realize that "I own it so I can get a copy of it" isn't a real legal thing and just some stupid myth that people have created to make themselves feel OK with ROMS right?

Even in a loose technical term, you don't own the right to get a COPY you just own the COPY you purchased, or the digital license for that good to use AS IS.

What you're purposing is just as illegal as downloading without first buying(to just justify the piracy in your mind).

Not to mention he isn't actually going to pay for the game anyway (and I apologize if you honestly do pay but you'd be in the minority). Why pay when you can emulate?

It's super annoying anytime someone justifies pirating Nintendo games and acts like it's Nintendos fault because the graphics aren't good enough.

It's one thing to emulate an old game that Nintendo refuses to preserve another thing entirely when it's brand new and most people are paying full price for it. Best keep that shit to yourself.
 
I would add that enemies were so retarded and combat so easy that even not having your favourite weapon was hard to call "adapt", at worse it was very minor annoynce.

Like they added fuse in the new game to create new weapons and shit, but was the combat system, enemy variety and level of challenge upgraded as well to make those system shine? Because crafting wacky weapons just to craft wacky weapons is gonna get boring after a while, biomutant had a very similar system but combat was so easy and simple that creating weapons was just...there.

Because what i saw was just the same retarded enemy coming at you and link dispatching him with the same 3 piece and a pepsi looking combo of botw...

Exactly ...doesn't look like they improved the actual combat mechanics very much
 
When I spend money on a product, especially a full-priced one by a large company, I expect all of its aspects to be high-quality.

Nintendo ain't a 3-people indie team that can be forgiven if some aspects of a production are sub-par because they don't have the resources to polish everything.

But hey, you do you. 😂

You should just put clowns like him on ignore. If people can't understand why others want games to look good then they have no business on a gaming message board.
 

Zephyrus0

Banned
So an upgrade of the weapon with fusion to increase durability didn't address the issue? You want durability completely gone? But it's not gone in other games. Which was my point.
I'm not the person being dense.
You cried about it. Nintendo came up with a fix or compromise, and even before you played it your still crying.
If you want durability completely gone then say so. Hence my point with the other 5-10 games mentioned. Warcraft durability for exceeds this and is a failure penalty. We don't know how much having a tree on fused to a branch strengthens said weapon. All I'm saying is:
1. I get your opinions on the last game. I understand it annoyed you.
2. Before you poo poo the mechanics test them.
I want you to learn how to read first and foremost.
After that we can discuss things
 

Robb

Gold Member
My post was about the $10 premium, not about features. The justification of $70 was that the budget of games was getting too high, not that the game is good or the effort into some features.
All the features they showed are potential money sinks though, any one of them could, and likely have, spiraled out of proportion in terms of workload during development. Who knows how much but the game has been delayed multiple times, so obviously the budget has been increased over time.
 

Lethal01

Member
I only feel that way because they only showed off a lot of tools which would be fun for sandbox play, and that's cool, but at this point the same map isn't very fun to explore when there's little to no reward. Hopefully they've changed things up a bit.

I know it'll be a good game, I'm just waiting for them to show a bit more meat.

They show a great plateau sized sky island, the question is how many of that is there? if there are 40 then you have a whole new world to explore.
 

mxbison

Member
Because BotW is not about caring about your weapons, games like Elden Ring and Monster Hunter you care about weapons because you can build your entire character around weapon of choice but thats not BotW is about.

BotW is about exploration and weapons is just another tool to help you explore, its not main drive of the game.

But part of the exploration is finding cool stuff, which isn't very cool when it breaks 3 minutes later.

I get the idea of wanting the player to expirement and use different weapons, I just don't think it's well designed.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
But part of the exploration is finding cool stuff, which isn't very cool when it breaks 3 minutes later.

I get the idea of wanting the player to expirement and use different weapons, I just don't think it's well designed.
You want combat reward but to me this more using tools to interact with world and building vehicles to explore different areas.

I personally didn't issue with weapon durability in previous games and I dont have issue here as well.
 

Lethal01

Member
Not to mention he isn't actually going to pay for the game anyway (and I apologize if you honestly do pay but you'd be in the minority). Why pay when you can emulate?

It's super annoying anytime someone justifies pirating Nintendo games and acts like it's Nintendos fault because the graphics aren't good enough.

It's one thing to emulate an old game that Nintendo refuses to preserve another thing entirely when it's brand new and most people are paying full price for it. Best keep that shit to yourself.
I don't think the legal situation matters at all.
I own BoTW, I emulate it since it's better that way, I think it's till for anyone to be bothered by that.
 

DonJorginho

Banned
You do realize that "I own it so I can get a copy of it" isn't a real legal thing and just some stupid myth that people have created to make themselves feel OK with ROMS right?

Even in a loose technical term, you don't own the right to get a COPY you just own the COPY you purchased, or the digital license for that good to use AS IS.

What you're purposing is just as illegal as downloading without first buying(to just justify the piracy in your mind).
Jaysius actually made a good point...

200.gif
 
But part of the exploration is finding cool stuff, which isn't very cool when it breaks 3 minutes later.

I get the idea of wanting the player to expirement and use different weapons, I just don't think it's well designed.

Finding cool new locations also drives exploration.

Elden Ring has both, awesome gear as well as very intriguing world visually that I wanted to explore.

That's why I think using same map is not cool. Hopefully we have not seen everything and game has a lot more that piques my curiosity.
 
All the features they showed are potential money sinks though, any one of them could, and likely have, spiraled out of proportion in terms of workload during development. Who knows how much but the game has been delayed multiple times, so obviously the budget has been increased over time.

How much of a money sink do you estimate those features added? $50 million? $100 million?
 

KU_

Member
In the previous videos you see dungeons not present in the BotW, maybe the underworld is as big as the surface, so is the sky. You may build something more complex than boats, maybe even a robot, who knows.

The problems is Aonuma was unable to sold the game with this trailer. What he has shown is pretty standard and the map is the same, with the same "cirque" and the dog in the same position. Not a good way to sold your game.
This. It’s apparent there is still a lot of the game that hasn’t been revealed. Going back to those first trailers we saw of the underworld, I bet the game is as large in its “descent” as it is in its “ascent”. Meaning for as large as the sky world is, the underworld will be just as large. If so, that’s a massive world.
 

Kumomeme

Member
But part of the exploration is finding cool stuff, which isn't very cool when it breaks 3 minutes later.

I get the idea of wanting the player to expirement and use different weapons, I just don't think it's well designed.
there is a reason why they did this. it is to solve the issue of need to create tons of unique asset by turn equipment into consumable resources instead. this is how the BOTW team handle it while Fromsoft tackling this in bit different way.

 
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Mozza

Member
Is this the exact same map but just with floating islands?

Don't think I can stomach exploring the same shit again. New mechanics aren't going to make up for that
So surprised why people think it would not be using a variation of the same map, but as yet we have seen very little of how things have changed, outside of a brief look at some of the sky Islands. Pretty sure Nintendo's radio silence on this is to not spoil some pretty massive changes. And very sure they have no spent 5 years just upgrading link's abilities.

Just wait, when the game drops there will be some big surprises....
 
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SJRB

Gold Member
Visuals are unbelievably bad. Resolution, textures, draw distance, pop-in, everything is one big muddy blur. Surely the dev team must be incredibly frustrated with that two gen-old hardware, I can't even imagine how restrictive it must be to develop for that piece of shit.

Game itself seems to have a lot of neat and innovative ideas, even though I'm not sure about all the crafting as a mechanic. The option to create anything from anything is pretty wild.
 
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ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Good one.

How dare anyone be disappointed by some sky islands and crafting options after 6 years of development.

Maybe the game will be great and that was just a poor showing, but that's all we have for now and it was weak as hell.
Yeah, cause we've seen all it can do. And also, they prob reached those crafting options in like a day and took a week tops to perfect it. Totes.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
yes, but also weapons in that game are the currency you spend to interact with the world.
a currency system only works if the currency is somehow scarce, or at least not infinite.
is the scarcity of resources, weapons included, that forces you to make meaningful decision, which is pretty much what the essence of gameplay is

I will always make the example of mining in the game

You have 3 options throughout the game

weapon
pickaxe
bombs

thanks to the degradation system and how it interacts with the rest of the systems in place, all three options have pro and cons

using a weapon means not wasting a slot in the inventory for a pickaxe, but they also degrade extremely fast when used for mining, so if you use exclusively this method, you are gonna find yourself out of weapons very soon

pickaxes are the optimamal solution for mining, but they are lousy weapons and thus you basically have to sacrifice a slot in the inventory for it.

bombs seem the catch all solution, they are infinite and waste no sace in the inventory, but their explosions makes materials fly everywhere, and considering that most mining spots are on the side of mountains, it means that you will often lose part of them or have to waste time chasing them at the bottom of some valley.

this creates a balanced system that forces the player to make constant decision about what to use and what to save, what to exchange for what, a game of currencies.

make weapons indestructible, and the whole thing collapses.
I wouldn't argue that it lacks overall rationale; I just don't think it's all that clever. These kinds of 'pro' and 'con' decisions are the bread and butter of game design. I don't think converting weapons into a currency is especially inspired either. In fact, given the rest of the game, it feels lazy and underdeveloped: it's easy to imagine a system that makes more sense within the world, with different types of weapons interacting with the world systems in different ways: brittle metals that shatter in the cold, untreated metals, like iron, that rust when you get them wet, steel swords that get too hot to handle in the desert. Rusted swords could be polished up to make them sharp again, you could find some kind of 'oven mits' to handle hot swords in the desert.

Then you open up the chance to consider things like tempering an iron sword with coal and heat to make a steel sword. Creating alloys like bronze or brass from base materials.... And this is just me spit-balling on a game forum.

With the exception of catching lightning during a storm, or a fire sword heating you in the cold, weapons largely exist outside the world systems, which is a shame, because everything else works directly with these systems, giving you tools and options to mitigate for the conditions you're dealing with. Meanwhile, all weapons but one, just shatter after a fixed period, never to return and that's it, that's the depth of the mechanic. A missed opportunity in a game so reliant on emergent gameplay and system interplay.
 
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LastBattle

Member
So surprised why people think it would not be using a variation of the same map, but as yet we have seen very little of how things have changed, outside of a brief look at some of the sky Islands. Pretty sure Nintendo's radio silence on this is to not spoil some pretty massive changes. And very sure they have no spent 5 years just upgrading link's abilities.

Just wait, when the game drops there will be some big surprises....
I Really hope you’re right because BoTW left me cold in the end and I dropped it. First Zelda Game I didn’t complete. ToTK is going to have to offer a vast new experience to bring me back. So far they are doing their best to make it look very much like more of the same…After 6 years of development.
 

mxbison

Member
Yeah, cause we've seen all it can do. And also, they prob reached those crafting options in like a day and took a week tops to perfect it. Totes.

Well that is what they decided to show, and it sucked.

Of course the game could be packed with amazing content but how can I know, just going by what I've seen. I already bought the game so I obviously want it to be good, but that showing took most of my hype away.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
It's funny to see how many people Nintendo has magically converted into not caring about graphics, what a bunch of baloney. Like 2% of you truely don't care, the rest are just in denial pretenders trapped in 2013 graphics by a lack of any true portable competition and Nintendo's greed.
 

shiru

Banned
It's funny to see how many people Nintendo has magically converted into not caring about graphics, what a bunch of baloney. Like 2% of you truely don't care, the rest are just in denial pretenders trapped in 2013 graphics by a lack of any true portable competition and Nintendo's greed.
Oh well. Not that it matters to you.
 
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