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[adamsapple]

I'm just going to come over here and tell you all that Hi Fi Rush is still my GOTY despite an amazing year full of legit bangers.

I guess we will truly know if it is a success or not only when/if they announce a sequel.

It is a viable award contender in multiple categories for sure. Definitely a very good contender for OST awards.

 

[j.k.2021]

What target he was expecting a AA game with zero marketing to hit anyway?....

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Guy is backtracking his own words.

@Ronin_7
here you go.

@thicc_girls_are_teh_best

I don't see any backtracking, it's just clarification. People took his words out of context

 

[Punished Miku]

I guess we will truly know if it is a success or not only when/if they announce a sequel.

No, then it will be a poor indictment on MS management failure to greenlight a sequel to a failed game and not manage their studios properly. Phil will also have lied about something, somehow.

 

[Topher]

He doesn't know what the game "needed to do" but the game didn't hit "that target". That shit is about as contradictory as any I've seen.

 

[Ozriel]

There are lots of reasons for him to lie. Xbox has been having a really bad round of PR for the past few weeks; reporting of HiFi failing to meet expectations would just compound on the slew of other bad news that has come about. And would be yet ANOTHER Zenimax game not "living up to expectations" (others being RedFall reception, and Ghostwire performance on Series X vs PS5 despite an extra year of development).

There's also the fact that HiFi comes from Tango, MS's sole internal Japanese studio, and there's the ever-running narrative of Microsoft just being terribad at courting Japanese developer support. If they want to retain at least respectable optics in that regard, they don't need reports of an otherwise refreshing nugget of a game from their internal Japanese team, failing to meet internal sales/revenue expectations, even if there's a chance said report(s) could be true.

Also not to mention, it's news that could reflect poorly on Microsoft in terms of management and/or internal expectations of acquired publishers...when they're currently trying to acquire yet another massive publisher in ABK. Would not really reflect well there.

I'm not saying any of this to state definitively that Aaron Greenberg is lying, BUT it doesn't dismiss the possibility he is. Not to mention, this guy has been very disingenuous and misleading in multiple instances in the past on Twitter, so I wouldn't say he's the most blindly trustworthy mouthpiece to listen to.

You certainly didn’t post an epistle like this when Sony refuted the Bloomberg report of cut PSVR orders. In fact, you celebrated the rebuttal.

When will you leave this phase behind?

 

[Punished Miku]

I don't see any backtracking, it's just clarification. People took his words out of context

1: It didn't make what it needed to make.
2: I don't know what it needed to make.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

1: It didn't make what it needed to make.
2: I don't know what it needed to make.

Those aren't inconsistent statements.

He heard from somebody that it didn't meet financial expectations - he does not know what those expectations were.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Someone's lying about this game and I can't tell who.

Who has the safest job?

Someone at MS or some guy trying to get clicks?

 

[adamsapple]

There are lots of reasons for him to lie. Xbox has been having a really bad round of PR for the past few weeks; reporting of HiFi failing to meet expectations would just compound on the slew of other bad news that has come about. And would be yet ANOTHER Zenimax game not "living up to expectations" (others being RedFall reception, and Ghostwire performance on Series X vs PS5 despite an extra year of development).

There's also the fact that HiFi comes from Tango, MS's sole internal Japanese studio, and there's the ever-running narrative of Microsoft just being terribad at courting Japanese developer support. If they want to retain at least respectable optics in that regard, they don't need reports of an otherwise refreshing nugget of a game from their internal Japanese team, failing to meet internal sales/revenue expectations, even if there's a chance said report(s) could be true.

Also not to mention, it's news that could reflect poorly on Microsoft in terms of management and/or internal expectations of acquired publishers...when they're currently trying to acquire yet another massive publisher in ABK. Would not really reflect well there.

I'm not saying any of this to state definitively that Aaron Greenberg is lying, BUT it doesn't dismiss the possibility he is. Not to mention, this guy has been very disingenuous and misleading in multiple instances in the past on Twitter, so I wouldn't say he's the most blindly trustworthy mouthpiece to listen to.

feynoob we need chat GPT to make sense of this please

 

[Abriael_GN]

You mean that JRPG which is just rumored and won't even be released for another 4-5 years if it turns out to be true?



Grubb is, whether rightly or wrongly, one of the most prominent "insiders" in gaming and has a lot of clout in the space due to that. I do think part of that is him clout-chasing but it doesn't change the fact he has the clout.

That said, I don't think he does it for console warring; personally he seems more like a Nintendo/Microsoft guy, more of the former than the latter, but into the ecosystems of both more so than Sony from what I've noticed. So he wouldn't put out something potentially negative relating to Xbox just for lolz or console wars.

And again, even in this statement there's a lot of PR in Aaron's tweet. What are these "key measurements and expectations"? Are any of these financially-related? If not, then it doesn't actually invalidate Grubb's statement; the game could have met other expectations in say number of downloads or number of people who reached a certain point in the game, but still have sold low relative to expectations for sales and revenue.

It's just impossible to parse that in large part because Aaron is a marketing/PR guy and would not get specific like that in any statement. Gotta obfuscate as much as possible, he learns a good deal of it from Phil.

"one of the most prominent "insiders" in gaming" is just another way to say "charlatan." The gaming crowd is super-easy to manipulate, as many aptly proved by spreading (often intentionally) false rumors again and again.

No. He doesn't do it for the console warring. He does it because stirring the pot and the engagement caused provide him with direct and actual monetary revenue, which is something that can be said about 99% of these "insiders"/ charlatans.

You just desperately want to believe him simply because what he says fits the narrative you want to be true, and that's how these people keep deceiving the internet into believing they have any worth. They're literally using you, and you keep asking for more.

 

[FrankWza]

Jeff Grubb just got Bloomberg'd on his info by Greenberg who is known to use VGChartz when celebrating Xbox Sales

What a time to be alive

We have to be living in a simulation.

 

[feynoob]

I don't see any backtracking, it's just clarification. People took his words out of context

He stated what everyone knew as a big news, which people fell for it.

This is the problem with people like him.

 

[ChiefDada]

He doesn't know what the game "needed to do" but the game didn't hit "that target". That shit is about as contradictory as any I've seen.

Where's the contradiction? If an insider tells you the company missed sales estimates without providing exact revenue/volume targets, that lack of information on the latter doesn't diminish the insights from the former.

 

[Clear]

In a situation where I don't know which side to believe, I'm inclined to lean away from the guy who's job (amongst others) is to do PR, putting a positive spin on the outcome

 

[Kvally]

If an insider

Jeff doesn't have an insider to the sales of MS games.

 

[ReBurn]

Refuted requires giving actual numbers, not meaningless vague statements like "trust me, the numbers are so great that we can't even share them".

Especially, coming from Greenberg who plays the role of Internet Xbox fanboy better than VP of anything and has been publicly contradicting himself for the last 10-15 years.

If you believe the public should know the success or lack of success of your software or hardware, share the numbers. But, refusing to do that while saying things are selling "well", is just hoping for your audience to be gullible.

I mean if it's true Grubb should have to prove he's right. Microsoft shouldn't have to prove him wrong. If he has information he should share it.

 

[poppabk]

Why are they hiding the real numbers, then??

What real numbers? They revealed they hit 2 million players back in March. It's a 1/10th of Forza Horizon 5 or Halo Infinite. But what the hell do we do with those numbers. Are any of them good? What about player retention, hours played etc. It's like Netlfix's stats. Ultimately all that matters to the bottom line for Netflix is number of subs and cost for production, but to determine how a show impacts number of subs is not a simple matter.

 

[FrankWza]

What?Their entire business model now revolves around game pass.Imagine asking about ticket sales from Netflix....

It's a gamepass exclusive? They should start selling games again.

 

[coffinbirth]

Players had expectations for a game they knew nothing about?

Did they take measurements too?!?

 

[feynoob]

feynoob we need chat GPT to make sense of this please

Here.

Multiple reasons suggest he may be lying, including Xbox's bad PR, potential impact on Japanese developer relations, and implications for management of acquired publishers.

 

[Kvally]

What real numbers? They revealed they hit 2 million players back in March. It's a 1/10th of Forza Horizon 5 or Halo Infinite. But what the hell do we do with those numbers. Are any of them good? What about player retention, hours played etc. It's like Netlfix's stats. Ultimately all that matters to the bottom line for Netflix is number of subs and cost for production, but to determine how a show impacts number of subs is not a simple matter.

I feel like people are more "concerned" with how many copies of a game is sold or if a game is profitable than they are with actually playing and enjoying the game.

 

[Mr Moose]

Did they take measurements too?!?

 

[Captain Toad]

Why? The original accusation was vague and made no specific claim about the game's sales.

He said it hit their metrics to be considered a success. That involves numbers in some form, but they refuse to share them.

 

[FrankWza]

Players had expectations for a game they knew nothing about?

 

[onQ123]

 

[Punished Miku]

He said it hit their metrics to be considered a success. That involves numbers in some form, but they refuse to share them.

They shared the players milestone already. Had artwork and everything.

 

[j.k.2021]

In a situation where I don't know which side to believe, I'm inclined to lean away from the guy who's job (amongst others) is to do PR, putting a positive spin on the outcome

If you aren't biased then correct thing to do would be to believe in ground facts like Tango Gameworks started working on a original game weeks ago and them expanding their studio.Those things don't happen when you released a flop.

 

[MisterXDTV]

What real numbers? They revealed they hit 2 million players back in March. It's a 1/10th of Forza Horizon 5 or Halo Infinite. But what the hell do we do with those numbers. Are any of them good? What about player retention, hours played etc. It's like Netlfix's stats. Ultimately all that matters to the bottom line for Netflix is number of subs and cost for production, but to determine how a show impacts number of subs is not a simple matter.

Real numbers would be

- Game sales on PC + Xbox consoles
- Number of GamePass subscriptions added since the game launched
- Number of downloads (only counting one device once, NO re-downloads)

They don't do that: it's all hidden

 

[Cashon]

This forum is so weird. I really wish people had more self-awareness and could recognize that they're letting petty biases and naive corporate loyalty cloud their judgement and misguide their behaviors.

You spent money on Console A, under a misguided loyalty, and you don't want to spend more money on Console B, so you delude yourselves into thinking that the Console B has nothing to offer, so that you don't feel bad about your choice to own Console A. It's a defense mechanism.

You, as a gamer, should want multiple consoles that offer unique experiences, so that competition can be fostered, leading to each company doing more to entice gamers to buy and play their games/consoles. This means cheering good games on any consoles and jeering bad games on any console. If you feel badly because you can't afford to own more than one console... Get over it. You will be able to one day. You don't have to be a part of the zeitgeist to enjoy games.

 

[j.k.2021]

They shared the players milestone already. Had artwork and everything.

Yup.Did it months ago.Clowns here don't know that.

 

[Crayon]

It was scrolled past on the gamepass menu over 40 million times.

 

[j.k.2021]

It's a gamepass exclusive? They should start selling games again.

They are selling it but no incentive to buy first party game as you can play them anytime in game pass.How about letting one of the richest companies on planet worry about which model to follow....

 

[coffinbirth]

As in...he was talking about internally, not the players.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Did they take measurements too?!?

 

[Kvally]

but they refuse to share them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You certainly didn’t post an epistle like this when Sony refuted the Bloomberg report of cut PSVR orders. In fact, you celebrated the rebuttal.

When will you leave this phase behind?

Search his post history. He was every bit as critical to Sony starting off this gen and about 2 years into it.

 

[j.k.2021]

Real numbers would be

- Game sales on PC + Xbox consoles
- Number of GamePass subscriptions added since the game launched
- Number of downloads (only counting one device once, NO re-downloads)

They don't do that: it's all hidden

-Sales have been meaningless to them since they have shifted to game pass model.
-They only reveal game pass numbers when it hit a specific milestone like 30 million subscribers.
-They already revealed number of players months ago.People here have short memory.

 

[geary]

So...we are moving here? Another +300 replies are expected...

 

[MisterXDTV]

-Sales have been meaningless to them since they have shifted to game pass model.
-They only reveal game pass numbers when it hit a specific milestone like 30 million subscribers.
-They already revealed number of players months ago.People here have short memory.

So the real numbers do exist, but they don't want to share them because it makes them look bad...

Got it,

Thanks buddy, you proved my point

 

[Ozriel]

He doesn't know what the game "needed to do" but the game didn't hit "that target". That shit is about as contradictory as any I've seen.

He does have sources, but also has a tendency to embellish sparse data and double down when he’s wrong.

Search his post history. He was every bit as critical to Sony starting off this gen and about 2 years into it.

So you’re saying he was radicalized just last year?

 

[StealthGoblin]

The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

Whatever the truth is, I think it was dumb to shadow drop it and not release it on Switch and PlayStation.

 

[ReBurn]

Real numbers would be

- Game sales on PC + Xbox consoles
- Number of GamePass subscriptions added since the game launched
- Number of downloads (only counting one device once, NO re-downloads)

They don't do that: it's all hidden

I'd be surprised if subscription growth is key metric for every game. The job of some games is going to be to help keep people from unsubscribing more than just adding people. Number of downloads isn't nearly as important as the number of people who actually play and for how long. I download games all the time that I end up deleting without starting because there's something else I want to play. I'm sure I'm not the only person who does that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So you’re saying he was radicalized just last year?

Radicalized? Stop projecting.

I am saying he gives it out when he feels there needs to be improvements made, or directions he does not like. I remember when Sony fans would say the same Xbox fans are saying to him now.

 

[geary]

spinning like a ballerina...

 

[Kvally]

Sales have been meaningless to them since they have shifted to game pass model.

"We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe," Spencer said. "I think it will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue, and it's profitable for us."

They aren't shifting to the Game Pass model, that is for sure. They are keeping it as an additional revenue source.

 

[Clear]

If you aren't biased then correct thing to do would be to believe in ground facts like Tango Gameworks started working on a original game weeks ago and them expanding their studio.Those things don't happen when you released a flop.

Its a multi-team studio who's founder just left, and a project that started before the MS takeover of its parent company and the subsequent cancellation of one of its target SKU's.

If they had high hopes for the project they'd have marketed it properly and not shadow-dropped it as a value-add for a stagnating (in terms of sub count) service.

If it had overperformed I'd expect them to announce DLC or a sequel entering production. Because you'd expect them to want to capitalize on that success.

 

[Chukhopops]

The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

Whatever the truth is, I think it was dumb to shadow drop it and not release it on Switch and PlayStation.

Why would a MS first party game be on other platforms?

 

[feynoob]

In a situation where I don't know which side to believe, I'm inclined to lean away from the guy who's job (amongst others) is to do PR, putting a positive spin on the outcome

Releasing the game as a shadow drop should tell you everything.
They didn't care about sales, or else they would have marketed the game a lot.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Releasing the game as a shadow drop should tell you everything.
They didn't care about sales, or else they would have marketed the game a lot.

So when the expectations are that low, all measurements would be a success.