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[DavidGzz]

PoE can be enjoyed casually just as much, and at no point did you have to fork out 70 clams for any of its 10 acts. You guys are trying to make Diablo 4 sound like what PoE was doing back in the day but the difference is that PoE delivered some actual value as a free game, and the optional monetization was actually optional if you were a more hardcore player, while Diablo 4 is just gonna try to milk everyone's tits from the get go.

Seems a bit naive to think that it's gonna be any different from Immortal, except with a paid entry fee.

And the $70 for D4 is for a full game full of content like most any other game. The armors in game look amazing, it has a huge campaign with a huge land mass to explore. It's a complete game, just because some upstart indy dev back 10+ years decided to release a game and make it free to play with putrid looking armors and barely any stash space, doesn't change the fact that D4 is complete game worth it's price. If you don't want to buy cosmetics, you don't have to. Let the "whales" do it so that we can benefit with updates, patches, and expansions. It isn't the end of the world, Indys will keep making games too. I forked out $150 for PoE. The stash tabs, mat stash tabs, and one set of armor cost me that much. So no, it isn't free for most at all. It costs MORE than a buy to play game for most but the most casual arpg player.

 

[Gone]

They are literally thousands more games.

If you don't like this one or any other one, go buy, support and play another one that's more to your liking.

 

[SCB3]

The whole Hogwarts Legacy boycott was the final straw for me and "State of the Industry" stuff, I straight up blocked and muted ANY site or outlet that didn't talk about one of the biggest games of the year and my god its like I've seen the light and games have been more fun without thinking about it, D4 looks great, the Betas were fun and I cannot control what some assholes in Blizzard may or may not have done, I just don't care about the Politics anymore

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I look forward to contributing to Diablo 4's inevitable massive success.

 

[Razvedka]

I've never bought a cosmetic in a game in my life not about to start

This is my view.

1). Wait for reviews before buying.
2). Never buy a battle pass.
3). Never buy cosmetics.
4). If possible, "try before you buy". In this case, I was in the beta.

 

[Spaceman292]

This isn't a rallying cry, my dude. Nothing will change at this point.

It's more about shutting the fuck up about those complaints because we've dug our own grave by buying these games in the first place.

I'm gonna do what I think is right and that's playing System Shock for the next month or so, but I don't care about convincing anyone else to join me on some ivory tower.

They do it because it makes sense on paper. Most GAAS game don't actually get bought, they crash and burn within a year.

 

[Puscifer]

If it's free then there will be a catch like there is in PoE. Only cosmetics look good instead of in game armors, you have to buy extra stash+stash for materials, and you have to deal with janky '98 arpg gameplay. I'd rather pay upfront for quality gameplay, cool in game armors, etc. Just wait for PoE 2, man.

Cosmetics are subjective, I'm not paying attention to them during gameplay to begin with. It's to me what looks they're holding back the end game behind the battle pass, ya know, something that was free far back as Diablo 2 and if you're letting free to play stuff like Lost Ark and PoE surpass you in that department then that's a sad state of affairs in Blizzard. Btw, I don't play PoE and I've only kept up with it's development because it's interesting to see it's growth lol

 

[Muay Ninja]

Got to love Diablo IV being made the scape goat for all those people buying the horse armour in 2005.

Keep fishing I guess.

 

[L*][*N*K]

You are more than welcome to not play those games, a lot of us will though.

 

[dreamstation]

Fun game with optional cosmetics? That's fine.
Broken games at launch with a sorry twitter post? Nope.

 

[ANDS]

What exactly is the point of this thread? To stop people from calling out bullshit just because a producer of bullshit has produced a diamond? That you can't do one or the either if you do the other? Folks on this forum will - until the cows come home - say how you should be able to separate "the art from the artist. . ." except when it goes in the other direction.

OP why don't YOU tell US what are the "good" positions and opinions to have when participating in this hobby so that we aren't hypocrites as you CLEARY have an idea on how folks should be acting.

 

[EruditeHobo]

And yeah, if you think that the actual developers are being fairly compensated for their hard work and it's not Bobby Kottick and his buddies who aren't gonna get the biggest slice of the pie, then I'm not at all surprised that you have such a naive view on this topic.

This point you're making above is silly -- conflating the idea of a dev tailoring/evolving a product in a wildly competitive market, and tying that to a gigantic, macro umbrella issue like... executive pay tendencies/unfairness in corporate capitalism? which affects everyone and everything... honestly, this is just dumb. And it's dumb for the really simple reason that there is only one way to support good devs putting out a good product, regardless of your malformed, undercooked opinions on unfair CEO pay or whatever. The way to support devs, the only way, is to support their products. Period. That's the only way for the consumer to try and make sure that good, talented teams stay together, that's how you get teams making sequels to good games, and that has nothing to do with Bobby Kotick's salary or whatever the hell you're talking about.

As to most of the rest of what you're written... I mean, it's always easy to differentiate those who have actually worked in this industry to put out a product in the incredibly expensive and insanely competitive AAA space from those that haven't. You don't want to support the game or the dev... don't. But you come on here to make a dumb post about literally one of the most anticipated games of the year with a huge fanbase... don't expect people not to push back on your bid for some attention.

There's no interesting thoughts here. Would have made more sense to just put up a poll and open things for discussion.

Anyway, have a great week buddy.

 

[owandeseis]

Path of Exile wasn't a full priced game like D4. Also, it wasn't a Chinese bot currency farming simulator in its first few years of existence. bu that's kinda beside the point. It was a solid F2P hack'n'slash game that provided everything that people were expecting and didn't get out of Diablo 3, and players were happy to throw money at the cosmetics shop because they were supporting something that actually deserved it.

Nowadays it went to shit as well but the point is that Diablo 4 should also be F2P if your argument was to be valid.

Hmm imo it changes absolutely nothing, PoE was free because it was pretty empty when it released, also they were unknown so the game would have flopped hard if they tried any other method that wasn't F2P.

But after that, and for the next 10 years, both Blizzard and GGG's income will be from cosmetics, and for them to make as much money as possible, they need to improve the game so the customers will keep coming back after each league, simple.

Also as someone said, it's also true that Path of Exile's microtransactions aren't all about cosmetics, there's some must buy stuff to be able to trade, or to be able to store your loot, coins, etc.

 

[Drizzlehell]

What exactly is the point of this thread? To stop people from calling out bullshit just because a producer of bullshit has produced a diamond? That you can't do one or the either if you do the other? Folks on this forum will - until the cows come home - say how you should be able to separate "the art from the artist. . ." except when it goes in the other direction.

OP why don't YOU tell US what are the "good" positions and opinions to have when participating in this hobby so that we aren't hypocrites as you CLEARY have an idea on how folks should be acting.

GAF has recently went into a meltdown when Sony announced a couple of GaaS games but here we are, simping for a GaaS game because it's Diablo.

The same thing happens literally with everything else. Activision or EA does something shitty? "boothisman.gif" But as soon as something remotely hype comes around it's like everyone's switch gets flipped.

I'm pointing out the double standards here. And yeah, I think that the world would be a better place if everyone had a bit of integrity and didn't cave in and bought this game. But that's an unrealistic expectation so I'm not even gonna try to convince anyone. This is just something to think about.

 

[CGNoire]

Exspecting Gamers to have Integrity is a waste of time.

 

[GenericUser]

Hmm imo it changes absolutely nothing, PoE was free because it was pretty empty when it released, also they were unknown so the game would have flopped hard if they tried any other method that wasn't F2P.

But after that, and for the next 10 years, both Blizzard and GGG's income will be from cosmetics, and for them to make as much money as possible, they need to improve the game so the customers will keep coming back after each league, simple.

Also as someone said, it's also true that Path of Exile's microtransactions aren't all about cosmetics, there's some must buy stuff to be able to trade, or to be able to store your loot, coins, etc.

You have to spend like 20 bucks in PoE to play it properly. For 20 bucks you get the currency tab (which is a MUST have) and (I think) two additional storage tabs. You can play it "for free" and finish the campaign though. But like diablo, poe is all about the endgame. At least then you basically need the storage tabs and currency tab.

That being said, there is no cool looking gear in PoE AT ALL. So if you want your character to not look like a poor peasant, you again have to spend money. And that cosmetic stuff is not exactly cheap either. That seems to be a non issue in Diablo 4 so far. Another thing is: stuff you purchase in PoE is not cross platform. I started on playstation and bought the currency tab and shit and once I switched to xbox, the game asked me to buy that stuff again. That is also something you have to take into consideration. As far as I understood it, all the stuff you buy in diablo 4 is cross platform across all 3 devices (pc, playstation and xbox).

 

[DryvBy]

Just GameFly it. That's how I'm doing it. If they want me to rent their game, sure. I'm not paying $70 for a GaaS game though.

 

[Zheph]

You have to spend like 20 bucks in PoE to play it properly. For 20 bucks you get the currency tab (which is a MUST have) and (I think) two additional storage tabs. You can play it "for free" and finish the campaign though. But like diablo, poe is all about the endgame. At least then you basically need the storage tabs and currency tab.

That being said, there is no cool looking gear in PoE AT ALL. So if you want your character to not look like a poor peasant, you again have to spend money. And that cosmetic stuff is not exactly cheap either. That seems to be a non issue in Diablo 4 so far. Another thing is: stuff you purchase in PoE is not cross platform. I started on playstation and bought the currency tab and shit and once I switched to xbox, the game asked me to buy that stuff again. That is also something you have to take into consideration. As far as I understood it, all the stuff you buy in diablo 4 is cross platform across all 3 devices (pc, playstation and xbox).

I had the same issue with crossplatform cosmetics and i don't expect it to change for PoE2 sadly, hoping to be wrong

 

[Golgo 13]

Interesting to note: The in-game store was DISABLED for reviewers, so they have no idea what cosmetics or bonuses are hidden behind paywalls, or any perspective at all on the GaAS elements of the game. Not surprising at all, really.

 

[Bernardougf]

Now, I'm not saying that anyone should feel bad about buying a game, okay? That's stupid. Do whatever you want with your life, and I completely understand if you don't wanna hear anything that I'm about to say. I'd probably tell myself to fuck off too if it was about a game that I was really hyped about.

Everyone else who's willing to listen though, read on.

People always bemoan the state of the industry and how everything is GaaS, how games are getting more expensive but their quality keeps going down, how monetization getting more aggressive, and how everyone is sick of it yadda yadda yadda. Whenever news comes out about yet another corporate figurehead doing something horrible, either to their own employees, to their company, or just dragging the industry further down the tubes, everyone is eager to share their token words of support or voice their disapproval. Whenever a beloved franchise gets dragged through the mud or a story comes out that a hotly anticipated game got canceled and its developer was sent down to Call of Duty sweatshops, everyone is fuming.

But whenever time comes to put your money where your mouth is and choose not to support a straight up malicious company that helped shape this industry into what it is today, that's when all integrity goes out the window because "oh wow, it's another Diablo, finna cum!"

Suddenly it doesn't matter that it's yet another GaaS game with predatory monetization schemes, battle passes, and all that trash, and that people who made it pulled so many scumbag moves in the past that it has a whole collection of class action and civil lawsuits under their belt today.

I do realize that I'm probably just yelling at clouds here because most of us just wanna buy the damn game and not having to feel conflicted about it. I'm not an innocent here either because I bought my share of Call of Duties in recent years as well. But there really comes a point where you should ask yourself if it really makes sense to keep complaining about all of the stuff that I mentioned here, when we're so quick to throw these morals out the window as soon as a game that we're really excited about comes along and we only care about playing it to distract ourselves from our boring, depressing lives for a few hours.

Honest question since I haven't been following Diablo IV launch all that much ... what is the predatory monetization that this game have that should be condemned?

 

[Arcadialane]

We already had this test with people rebuying the last of us for the third time at full price

 

[Drizzlehell]

Honest question since I haven't been following Diablo IV launch all that much ... what is the predatory monetization that this game have that should be condemned?

Cosmetic shop + battle pass. They claim it won't have any pay to win scenarios but they said the same thing for CoD and it turned out to be complete horseshit so, you know, just keep that in mind...

Basically everything that was previously included as part of seasonal events and its content rewards in Diablo 3 for free, will now be put behind a paywall and dangled in front of your nose like in CoD.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Considering 80% of all games coming out now are sequels, spin-offs, remasters, reboots or part of a entertainment franchise, the issue is originality, not GAAS. Don't buy any cosmetics. Many publishers also follow the trends (looking at you Sony's bubble-Splatoon like crap-fest). How many hero-shooters, Moba's, battle-royale's, asymetrical MP games.....most of these all fail. Need new IP's with originality.

 

[BlackTron]

Guess what, customers ARE to blame for the "state of the industry". Whether Diablo succeeds or not.

You're welcome.

 

[kicker]

Agreed.
Of course, we're all free to do whatever we want with our money, nobody can really question that.

But If you're okay with unnecessary GAAS elements (real money comsetics, battle pass, always online gameplay) added to a full-priced $70 game in a historically singleplayer franchise from historically singleplayer developers, then you should be perfectly fine with Rocksteady doing the same with Suicide Squad.

Hell, even if Starfield, Baldurs Gate 3, Spiderman 2, Dragons Dogma 2, Alan Wake 2, whatever singleplayer game you're excited for does the same, the same dismissals of "they'll use the funding to lengthen the game's lifespan/it's just cosmetics/people are too dumb and nothing will change so stop worrying about it" would apply (I'm reaching a little with those particular games, since diablo has always been a loot-based, endless content -type game, but the point stands)

If your thought process is 'Yeah, it's a bad practice but other games are doing it, and I really like this one game so it doesn't matter' then you shouldn't complain when other developers do it since it obviously doesn't matter.
Well, maybe *you* don't complain anymore, who knows, I'm talking to the air here.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Im not buying it, and havent purchased a blizz game since WOTLK.

 

[Zheph]

from historically singleplayer developers

Blizzard? The first Warcraft already had multiplayer, same for Diablo... Starcraft...

 

[BlackTron]

Im not buying it, and havent purchased a blizz game since WOTLK.

Yeah sorry but Blizzard is dead to me. If they announced Starcraft 3 today, I would start digging its grave tomorrow

 

[AngelMuffin]

It's fun and addicting, i don't care about the rest.

So is heroin.

 

[Unknown?]

Money makes the world go around.

Money's key trait is being a store of value. No current nation state uses money anymore, with rampant inflation. We all use currency. /rant

 

[kicker]

Blizzard? The first Warcraft already had multiplayer, same for Diablo... Starcraft...

My mistake then (even though you know what I meant by historically singleplayer devs; no-one would describe blizzard north as 'multiplayer devs' because of diablo's co-op features)

 

[Drizzlehell]

My mistake then (even though you know what I meant by historically singleplayer devs; no-one would describe blizzard north as 'multiplayer devs' because of diablo's co-op features)

But you're still largely correct. Multiplayer was always its own separate thing and their older games could've been enjoyed exclusively for their single player campaigns that weren't forcefully incorporated into a live, always-online model. But nowadays everything is running like it's an MMO and even if you want to enjoy the story solo you'll be bukakked with immersion-breaking live service bullshit.

 

[MiguelItUp]

If it's fun it's fun. I feel like if you care too much about the 'state of the industry' then you need to take a step back.

Exactly, I couldn't agree more. Also with Diablo being Diablo, it being a GaaS is fitting. It just evolved into it. But it makes sense with it being almost MMO-like nowadays. The money keeps the servers going, it keeps the game going, it keeps the seasons and other content going, etc. If you don't want to play it, don't. If you want to play it but don't want to buy any monetization, don't. I on the other hand will be diving in, and I don't plan on feeling some kind of "guilt" because I'm enjoying it.

 

[Saber]

It mostly the same case with Pokemon.
Demand something better from a garbage scummy developer and people either:
- Don't care
- Its fun
- Classic "you act as if Gamefreak is making your family hostage"

OP, I totally understand you. But this is a lost case. Most of people are so much addicted to this that can't see beyond their own games, they only think you're the enemy.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Around all the monetization stuff there's still a cool game underneath (at least I hope so, haven't played it yet of course).

I rather browse this forum or any website without any ads. I rather not get requests to write reviews for anything I have ever done in my inbox. I rather not have big KFC, Burger King and McDonalds signs cluttering the horizon when I'm outside.
But it's the world we live in now. Ads in your face all the time.

MONEY. They want it.
I'll ignore it, like all the rest and focus on the fun stuff..

 

[Minsc]

I've made my peace and come to terms with the mobile gaming market, there ain't a damn thing in hell Blizzard could pull on me that doesn't look innocent compared to mobile games.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If it's fun it's fun. I feel like if you care too much about the 'state of the industry' then you need to take a step back.

Same here as I have the ult edition and can't wait to play this game

As far as mtx goes I have self control but I know some who do not and literally buy everything

If something looks super cool in the store I will buy it, 99% of the crap I pass on

As far as COD having supposed pay to win stuff unless you are a professional gamer who really gives a shit?

 

[cireza]

It is more important for a person to live by her own standards, and not put her money in what she decides is not worth it (in this precise case), than thinking that others absolutely have to do the same. Truth is, there are things in life that belong to you, and others that don't. If you cannot make the difference between both, you will most certainly live a pretty sad life.

Don't buy a game if it is not worth it, don't accept a job if you think it doesn't represent your principles etc... But don't expect or hope that others will do the same.

 

[Drizzlehell]

If you don't want to play it, don't.

 

[LakeOf9]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a seemingly great game in a beloved franchise doing well, and I disagree with the thesis in the OP completely

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If it's going to be GAAS then it has to be free IMO, even destiny 2 couldn't sell the base game with a straight fac knowing how much there is to buy.

Yeah, pricing is an issue with the game.

That's why I would encourage anyone to wait for a sale, or at least see the seasonal content first.

It does have cosmetics but armours and skins in the game are not terrible looking. It doesn't forces you to get battlepass, from what I have seen.

 

[gothmog]

People are hardwired to prioritize short term over long term gains. These games literally exploit this and expand on other psychological hacks like FOMO. Asking everyone to change their nature is not going to be easy or attainable IMO.

 

[Draugoth]

99% of players arent going to spend $30 on comestic skins on the shop

Only rich people with mroe money than what they can spend on and whales.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You’re wasting your breath. I consider myself a smart buyer, as I generally wait to the point where I can get something at a cheap price - or off a Humble bundle deal.

But Diablo 4, I will likely buy after checking user and YouTube reviews. It’s one of my all time favorite franchises. I haven’t followed the monetization info, but I don’t waste money on cosmetics - so no worries there.

Buy and play what you want. You’re like a speck on Jupiter at this point. The mobile style monetization won’t be slowing down or stopping. If anything we’re seeing companies like Sony stepping on the gas. People that go from AAA game to AAA game are the ones that will be affected the most.

 

[amigastar]

I just hope they won't add p2w mechanics later on.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

The game itself seems complete and quality. I dont understand this logic that because it has overpriced micro transactions , that it means the game is bad. If you cant control yourself to buy some stupid cosmetic to change the color of your armour for $50, the idiot is you. Theres a big difference between GaaS where its pay to win and faster progress and GaaS as cosmetic crap. I play religiously Flight Simulator....there is a TON of aircrafts $30-$60 a piece. How is that bad for the game, they gave you like 20+ free aircrafts, if you are such a fanatic, go ahead and buy your plane but you got a full game for $60, up to you if you want to buy extra.

 

[Sanepar]

PoE can be enjoyed casually just as much, and at no point did you have to fork out 70 clams for any of its 10 acts. Hardly a "demo". You guys are trying to make Diablo 4 sound like what PoE was doing back in the day but the difference is that PoE delivered some actual value as a free game, and the optional monetization was actually optional if you were a more hardcore player. Diablo 4 is just gonna try to milk everyone's tits from the get go.

Seems a bit naive to think that it's gonna be any different from Immortal, except with a paid entry fee.

Poe is garbage, generic art, crap plot, diablo has an awesome lore and art, many play just to finish story, that's why u can't compare both.

 

[noise36]

The only way to play this game on PC is by paying $110 AUD. I have been gaming for 30+ years and never paid $110 AUD for a game.

I know you are talking about the GaaS part but its only idiots and kids that actually buy in game cosmetics with real money.

 

[Drizzlehell]

The game itself seems complete and quality. I dont understand this logic that because it has overpriced micro transactions , that it means the game is bad. If you cant control yourself to buy some stupid cosmetic to change the color of your armour for $50, the idiot is you. Theres a big difference between GaaS where its pay to win and faster progress and GaaS as cosmetic crap. I play religiously Flight Simulator....there is a TON of aircrafts $30-$60 a piece. How is that bad for the game, they gave you like 20+ free aircrafts, if you are such a fanatic, go ahead and buy your plane but you got a full game for $60, up to you if you want to buy extra.

The amount of words that some people are willing to write without even reading a single sentence that I wrote in the OP is pretty hilarious, lol.

 

[Freeman76]

The GaaS model works well for some games, if it's done right.

An example of one that isn't, is Destiny 2.

From the looks of D4, they seem to have it right imo. Not too heavy, but enough to keep a revenue stream going so they can make more content.

If it's done well I think it's a good thing for us as gamers. I prefer a steady stream of new content rather than waiting 10 years between games. Its a huge team effort to keep adding content, and that huge team needs to be paid. You want the best content, got to pay for skilled staff. Of course they will overcharge a little, but thats business and you dont have to contribute, just dont buy it.

Having said this, the Destiny type model has been pure scum as far as I'm concerned, as much as I enjoy the game I feel dirty playing it and will never install it again since the second expansion. Having to buy the expansion, and then a season pass on top to access a lot of the weapons, and there STILL being a cash shop where a lot of the best looking armour in a LOOT BASED game costing real money, yeah they can fuck off.