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Honestly, if Diablo IV will turn out to be a success, then we only have ourselves to blame for the state of the industry

Drizzlehell

Banned
Now, I'm not saying that anyone should feel bad about buying a game, okay? That's stupid. Do whatever you want with your life, and I completely understand if you don't wanna hear anything that I'm about to say. I'd probably tell myself to fuck off too if it was about a game that I was really hyped about.

Everyone else who's willing to listen though, read on.

People always bemoan the state of the industry and how everything is GaaS, how games are getting more expensive but their quality keeps going down, how monetization getting more aggressive, and how everyone is sick of it yadda yadda yadda. Whenever news comes out about yet another corporate figurehead doing something horrible, either to their own employees, to their company, or just dragging the industry further down the tubes, everyone is eager to share their token words of support or voice their disapproval. Whenever a beloved franchise gets dragged through the mud or a story comes out that a hotly anticipated game got canceled and its developer was sent down to Call of Duty sweatshops, everyone is fuming.

But whenever time comes to put your money where your mouth is and choose not to support a straight up malicious company that helped shape this industry into what it is today, that's when all integrity goes out the window because "oh wow, it's another Diablo, finna cum!"

Suddenly it doesn't matter that it's yet another GaaS game with predatory monetization schemes, battle passes, and all that trash, and that people who made it pulled so many scumbag moves in the past that it has a whole collection of class action and civil lawsuits under their belt today.

I do realize that I'm probably just yelling at clouds here because most of us just wanna buy the damn game and not having to feel conflicted about it. I'm not an innocent here either because I bought my share of Call of Duties in recent years as well. But there really comes a point where you should ask yourself if it really makes sense to keep complaining about all of the stuff that I mentioned here, when we're so quick to throw these morals out the window as soon as a game that we're really excited about comes along and we only care about playing it to distract ourselves from our boring, depressing lives for a few hours.
 

near

Gold Member
Diablo IV is probably the worst example to make your point, there has only been 3 mainline iterations in a franchise that started 26 years ago. It's going to do gangbuster business. We've also had so many of these I'm tired of the 'state of the industry' threads, that it's getting boring now.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
If it's fun it's fun. I feel like if you care too much about the 'state of the industry' then you need to take a step back.
This isn't a rallying cry, my dude. Nothing will change at this point.

It's more about shutting the fuck up about those complaints because we've dug our own grave by buying these games in the first place.

I'm gonna do what I think is right and that's playing System Shock for the next month or so, but I don't care about convincing anyone else to join me on some ivory tower.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
In terms of "predatory monetisation", Diablo IV is really only guilty of offering "early access" for pre-orders. Beyond that, your OP doesn't really highlight what Diablo IV does that requires this thread over any one other game.

All things considered, Diablo IV's revenue streams can be ignored pretty easily if you're not interested in them.
 

Gandih42

Member
I've always loved the Diablo style of ARPGs, but despite the gameplay itself looking awesome in Diablo IV I'm not really all that interested. All the crappy real life stuff coming out of Blizzard is already a downer, but I'm honestly not virtuous enough of a person to disregard it solely on that. So to that part of your point, I'm part of the problem there.

The GaaS side of it is really what deflates my enthusiasm. Its great that for some (many) people this is a big value add because there'll be a lot more stuff in it over time. But it comes at the cost of the game design being skewed towards incentivising grinding, in-app purchases etc. That to me far outweighs the benefit of more "stuff". It doesn't look that egregious from what I've seen so far but that has not really been a good indicator in the past so I'm holding my breath.

At the very least, its cool to see that the game is doing really well in seemingly every other measurable metric.
 

TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
I'm not even gonna give the game a go based on the fact that it is Blizzard.
Blizzard can go do one. I'm just not going to throw more money into their crap machine.

And honestly, the game doesn't even look that interesting.
I was already bored to death by D3 which just felt like such a massive letdown coming from D2 and then Path Of Exile showed barely a year later how it's done much better.

OP is entirely right, though, nobody who keeps feeding money into the machine has the right to complain that the machine sucks.
 

PeteBull

Member
And here I am, debating whether or not I should upgrade my version to the super ultimate alpha edition just to play it a few days earlier. I regret nothing.
Its ur hard earned money, bro, if u feel u need/want it, do it, no regrets, personally i will save that cash for the expack tho ;P
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Beyond that, your OP doesn't really highlight what Diablo IV does that requires this thread over any one other game.
I think it's relevant because it's a GaaS game that the majority of users seem very excited about, while in most other cases such a business model is universally reviled and games that use it harshly criticized. It seems a bit hypocritical.

All things considered, Diablo IV's revenue streams can be ignored pretty easily if you're not interested in them.
I get this point but I don't think it should be used as an excuse. It's a 70 dollar game that employs freemium model. It's exactly the kind of thing that should be harshly criticized and not hand-waved.
 
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kikkis

Member
I dont really see battle pass being "predatory". Hell I don't even see fabled loot boxes exploiting "vulnerable adults". If anything given these premises, government monopolies on gambling could be just summarized as "exploiting addicts for the greater good".
 

Little Mac

Gold Member
Don't care. Bought the $100 Ultimate edition.

Happy Will Ferrell GIF


Blaming the current state of the industry on a 26 year old franchise that release games practically once every decade is kinda weird. Regardless, see you in Sanctuary tomorrow GAF bros.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Just Don’t buy any of the mtx things?
You can play the game without them.

I played Diablo 3 and the mobile game with out ever buying anything but the one d3 expansion and still had a great time and got high end equipment. 🤷‍♂️
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
as long as the core game remains decent and you are not forced to buy things etc then I think its fine.

Apex Legends is one of my favorite games in years and I have legit sunk a lot of money into it because it has literally given me thousands of hours of enjoyment. I have no issue in supporting it. That is my choice.

I do hear you OP, I have got the game for free for the standard version and Ill give it a blast at some point. I have no intention of buying season passes etc unless it really grabs me and i feel I should support them.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Just Don’t buy any of the mtx things?
You can play the game without them.

I played Diablo 3 and the mobile game with out ever buying anything but the one d3 expansion and still had a great time and got high end equipment. 🤷‍♂️
Diablo 3 wasn't monetized, though. With the exception of the community-driven auction house which was closed pretty early on there weren't any MTX in that game. Expansion pack is an expansion pack. Those used to be worth something so I don't see Reaper of Souls as a "scheme" of any kind.

Immortal got slagged for its monetization, though, and rightfully so because that game aggressively paywalled anything about it that was worthwhile.
 
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Hot5pur

Member
Strongly agree OP.
The FOMO stuff sucks. The early access is just extortion that creates zero value for the customer. Early access should just be called a game delay tax. Cosmetics shop I think is meh but OK. Battlepasses that run out are ridiculous because it puts pressure on you to play. They should just unlock everything at the end of the season if you paid for them.

On the other hand if you don't engage with this predatory stuff you'll have other people pay to support this game for many years so you can keep enjoying new free content. Expansions will still be paid but seasons might be more substantial and interesting.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Diablo 3 wasn't monetized, though. With the exception of the community-driven auction house which was closed pretty early on there weren't any MTX in that game. Expansion pack is an expansion pack. Those used to be worth something so I don't see Reaper of Souls as a "scheme" of any kind.

Immortal got slagged for its monetization, though, and rightfully so because that game aggressively paywalled anything about it that was worthwhile.

It only offered easy access vs normal grinding. That’s not really a “wall”
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Miss out on one of the games of the year because of yet more (predictable) overreactions & chicken little-ing, throwing a fit about MTX "ruining gaming"?

Hmmmmm...

tacos-de.gif


Day 1 fo sho. Gonna be a super fun game to play through with my gaming buddies.

Sorry you'll miss out! But that's your decision. I personally find it pathetic, this tendency of gamers to not be happy for devs to include options which allow them to make more money on good products to support their massive teams who bust their asses to make these games. It's one of the most childish, entitled points of view I can imagine, frankly.

Now... if we were talking about an actually broken scam of a product, which wasn't fun or hasn't been finely crafted, the point of which was to put in actually predatory pay-to-win gating or something like that... that would probably be something else, and I would be a little more sympathetic to this kind of whining. But that ain't Diablo 4, pretty obviously.

As it stands, if you hate MTX... don't contribute to them. That's fine. But doomsaying about the state of the industry is some straight up diaper baby shit.
You sound awfully defensive about it.

Let me shorten the OP to something that will be more in line with your attention span: if you're part of the problem then don't complain about other games doing the same thing.
 
Of course the state of the industry is because customers want it exactly that way. As an individual you have just one voice and if you are the minority it's bad luck, since the others just think otherwise. Neither is better.
 

The Cockatrice

Gold Member
If? Bro even my friends dog bought the game. It's a new Diablo game. Immortal made millions, so what the fuck do you htink the 4th one will make? I'm not a fan so I'll prolly get it someday in a year or two when theres more content and cheaper price but all my friends got it and they rarely buy/play games. Might as well make a turd, slap Diablo on it and I guarantee you it will still sell. Also MTX have been on games for more than 10 years now. Its not recent. League of Legends had them since day 1. I know it sucks, but this has been the case for ages now. Just accept it and enjoy the games you can enjoy and stop worrying so much. You cant stop it. Consumers are idiots. They'll always spend money on cosmetics and shit.
 
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Elitro

Member
In a way you are right, and i shamefully admit i became part of the problem by buying the 90€ edition.
However, if the game is good i dont really think it warrants all this drama. The battle pass should help them fund more content in the future and if they cross the line with it im sure gamers will eventually drop off (myself included)
Still, its a lot better like this than launching the game f2p and then having to buy the battle pass for extra xp or other boosts.
 
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EekTheKat

Member
Yeah for me it just makes more sense to indulge in my revived interest in strategy games and a lot of 40k games on PC rather than hopping on the ladder again and hitting the Diablo grind like I was still young. If D4 is legit good and Blizzard doesn't do anything to tank their reputation even more I'll probably pick it up in the future - after a sale or two and/or scores of patches to address issues - but right now I'm just not interested in the launch shenanigans.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Yes indeed, this is the way. (y)
Also, if you've had a bit of a firmer grasp on reality then you probably wouldn't be bragging so hard about this, lol.

Let's do some basic math here for a second, shall we?

Diablo 3 has sold over 5 million units in its lifetime, with 3,5 million of those sold in the first day of its release. Let's say that Diablo 4 is gonna do better because it's a return to form for the series and fans seems positive about it, which wasn't the case with D3. SO, let's say they're gonna sell about 5 million units in the opening week, and about 8 million in the entire life span.

Now we have 3 different editions, each priced at 70, 80, and 100 dollars, so let's just take a median of 90 dollars per copy. 5 million times 90 dollars = 450 million dollars earned in the first week of release, with additional 270 million of additional revenue coming in over time.

Wow, those downtrodden, impoverished publishers need to earn a bit more because this isn't nearly enough money for them to get by. Let's throw more dosh at them by buying some battle passes and cosmetics so that they could hoard at least a couple of billion smackaroos for their offshore accounts.

And yeah, if you think that the actual developers are being fairly compensated for their hard work and it's not Bobby Kottick and his buddies who aren't gonna get the biggest slice of the pie, then I'm not at all surprised that you have such a naive view on this topic.
 

DavidGzz

Member
D4 is what will reveal this model works? GTA5, PoE, Fortnite, etc, showed these devs what the new business model was a long time ago.
 
Seems like people are already starting to forget that games can exist without all the psychological manipulation injected into them, it’s become expected and accepted. I just have zero interest in being pressured into spending more money on a game that I already bought and is supposed to provide, you know…entertainment and fun?

These games don’t want you feeling satisfied, then you might stop playing their wallet drain simulator. It’s pretty disheartening to see people asking daddy Actiblizz to step on them harder, keep your nasty kinks behind closed doors.
 
By these comments i'd say you don't know much about Diablo's genre.

Diablo 1 and 2 were two of my favourite games, and after Diablo 3 released, it looked like nobody could beat these 2, until Path of Exile arguably the best ARPG ever made, and why? because it had a dedicated team behind it AND because it was a GaaS.

How would Diablo 4 compete with Path of Exile and incoming's Path of Exile 2 without being a GaaS? Without improving and adding new content each 3-4 months? Simply impossible, it'd feel old in a couple years, not even expansions would save it.

Things are not as simple as GaaS = Bad, Multiplayer/Coop= Bad, Exclusive game going multi = Bad, Single player Cinematic = Good, etc
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Is long as it’s all kept to cosmetics for the morons willing to pony up real world cash to wear a different hat in a game then I’ve got no problem with it.

Milk the whales for pointless fluff so the actual game stuff is free for everyone? It’s a great model.
 

DavidGzz

Member
If it's going to be GAAS then it has to be free IMO, even destiny 2 couldn't sell the base game with a straight fac knowing how much there is to buy.

If it's free then there will be a catch like there is in PoE. Only cosmetics look good instead of in game armors, you have to buy extra stash+stash for materials, and you have to deal with janky '98 arpg gameplay. I'd rather pay upfront for quality gameplay, cool in game armors, etc. Just wait for PoE 2, man.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
By these comments i'd say you don't know much about Diablo's genre.

Diablo 1 and 2 were two of my favourite games, and after Diablo 3 released, it looked like nobody could beat these 2, until Path of Exile arguably the best ARPG ever made, and why? because it had a dedicated team behind it AND because it was a GaaS.

How would Diablo 4 compete with Path of Exile and incoming's Path of Exile 2 without being a GaaS? Without improving and adding new content each 3-4 months? Simply impossible, it'd feel old in a couple years, not even expansions would save it.

Things are not as simple as GaaS = Bad, Multiplayer/Coop= Bad, Exclusive game going multi = Bad, Single player Cinematic = Good, etc
Path of Exile wasn't a full priced game like D4. Also, it wasn't a Chinese bot currency farming simulator in its first few years of existence. bu that's kinda beside the point. It was a solid F2P hack'n'slash game that provided everything that people were expecting and didn't get out of Diablo 3, and players were happy to throw money at the cosmetics shop because they were supporting something that actually deserved it.

Nowadays it went to shit as well but the point is that Diablo 4 should also be F2P if your argument was to be valid.
 

DavidGzz

Member
Path of Exile wasn't a full priced game like D4. Also, it wasn't a Chinese bot currency farming simulator in its first few years of existence. bu that's kinda beside the point. It was a solid F2P hack'n'slash game that provided everything that people were expecting and didn't get out of Diablo 3, and players were happy to throw money at the cosmetics shop because they were supporting something that actually deserved it.

Nowadays it went to shit as well but the point is that Diablo 4 should also be F2P if your argument was to be valid.

It was a free demo. You NEED stash tabs and also pony up for material stash tabs and if you don't want your character to look like a hobo pony up for $40 skins. This argument is funny. Again, it was a free demo and if you like it, you have to spend money to play it seriously.

Either accept the business model D4 has so that they have incentive to keep updating it and releasing content for it or avoid it. Pretty simple. I definitely don't want another D3 while their other games get all of their attention because they are actually making them money after releasing.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
It was a free demo. You NEED stash tabs and also pony up for material stash tabs and if you don't want your character to look like a hobo pony up for $40 skins. This argument is funny. Again, it was a free demo and if you like it, you have to spend money to play it seriously.

Either accept the business model D4 has so that they have incentive to keep updating it and releasing content for it or avoid it. Pretty simple. I definitely don't want another D3 while their other games get all of their attention because they are actually making them money after releasing.
PoE can be enjoyed casually just as much, and at no point did you have to fork out 70 clams for any of its 10 acts. Hardly a "demo". You guys are trying to make Diablo 4 sound like what PoE was doing back in the day but the difference is that PoE delivered some actual value as a free game, and the optional monetization was actually optional if you were a more hardcore player. Diablo 4 is just gonna try to milk everyone's tits from the get go.

Seems a bit naive to think that it's gonna be any different from Immortal, except with a paid entry fee.
 
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