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[Dane]

What on earth are you talking about? If you buy a PS5 to play PS5 games then you should be using the new controller that comes in the box with it. Playing the games with an older controller would only offer you a massively inferior experience, why would you want that? Developers can also focus on utilising the new features where possible in the knowledge that it's not going to waste since everyone that plays their game on a PS5 will be doing so with the dualsense.

If you're so desperate to play new games using a DS4 (I don't know why) then you can freely do so on PC if you don't mind the additional wait time for the exclusives.

This is the most ridiculous thing to cry about, I've never once seen anyone complain that the quest 2 controllers don't work with the quest 3, and that the old Nintendo controllers didn't work on the Switch (and still don't absent of a 3rd party adapter). Why is that? Why this not so subtle coordinated effort to make it seem like a new controller with new features being introduced with a console is suddenly a bad thing when Sony do it with the Playstation?

Oh, and:

Still beating the same tired old drum after 3 years? I'm so sorry it all backfired.

Revolutionize what? It is a simple iteration from DS4, and the entire core experiencie is rooted on the original Analog Controller, the most important iteration was the trigger bumper buttons on Six Axis and that's it, for the Xbox controller it was just changing the positions of the start/select and black and white into LT and RT.

And that doesn't excuse Nintendo either, didn't the pro controller and Wii controllers work with WiiU and Vice Versa? How can Sony make the DS4, which has a touch pad, backwards compatible with the PS3, but not the Dual Sense with the PS4?

 

[GHG]

Revolutionize what? It is a simple iteration from DS4, and the entire core experiencie is rooted on the original Analog Controller, the most important iteration was the trigger bumper buttons on Six Axis and that's it, for the Xbox controller it was just changing the positions of the start/select and black and white into LT and RT.

And that doesn't excuse Nintendo either, didn't the pro controller and Wii controllers work with WiiU?

Why you asking me about the "revolutionise" thing? It's not me saying that.

And Yes the Wii - - > Wii u transition had a lot of continuity.

It also happened to be one of the worst console follow-ups/generation transitions in history. Sound familiar? It's almost as if consumers want a bunch of new stuff when they spend money on a new console, shock.

 

[StereoVsn]

Well, COD will still sell well. On Xbox, and Playstation, and PC, and apparently Switch (we'll see about Switch). Gamepass will have COD, but nobody says they gotta get it on Gamepass...it doesn't matter to them. Also you fail to mention King and Candy Crush...also Wow apparently is making a comeback in a big way. All I'm saying is that this deal....it's gonna make money....easy.

Yes, if MS goes 3rd party they will make good money until they run their studios into the ground.

 

[StereoVsn]

Everybody's always talking about Japan while China is where the real money and potential are. China is already twice the revenue of Japan with a massive upside due to a much larger player base. It's also the market where consoles practically don't exist and PC/mobile has something like 99.9%. At the same time, Xbox sees PC and Mobile as their main platforms for growth...

China that has super strict regulations for kids and teens playing MP games? Same China that made it hard to get an approved game license even for local companies? Or the China that is mainly gaming on Phones and PCs?

I am sure they are going to buy Xboxes in droves any day now.

 

[Dane]

Why you asking me about the "revolutionise" thing? It's not me saying that.

And Yes the Wii - - > Wii u transition had a lot of continuity.

It also happened to be one of the worst console follow-ups/generation transitions in history. Sound familiar? It's almost as if consumers want a bunch of new stuff when they spend money on a new console, shock.

Sorry about the "revolutionize" it might have been from some posts above.

And about the WiiU, that saved money for those who needed another controller or had more people in the house/for parties. The WiiU premise was a whole new thing that no one got interested unlike its predecessor.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The apathy towards the Xbox brand (in the real world) is massive and growing. However, if and when the Xbox articles and forum threads finally start lossing the engagement factor; that would be the undenible sign of the true dead of that brand/console. I had this sceneario in my bing-o chart. (But not as bad).

Now, the interesting aspect is going see PlayStation´s actions about it.....they can´t do much more. They could snatch GTAVI exclusivity (Marketing/Time) and of course keep making third/second party deals (Even more so IF their roadmap is fucked up).

I dunno. Starfield was seen by the xbox cumminty as The Miracle Game.....Now what?. What is the next level of a miracle?.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yes, if MS goes 3rd party they will make good money until they run their studios into the ground.

The most unbiased post yet.

 

[Moriarty1889]

This is all thanks to Phil Spencer. The man who pushed gamepass more than the console itself. The man who said you don’t need to buy our console to play our games. The man who put Xbox exclusives on PC. The man who decided putting AAA games day one of gamepass was a good thing for the brand. The man who stated in a live video interview that great AAA games won’t sell consoles. The man who said they are not in the business of outconsoling Sony or Nintendo………..all that shite has come back to ruin the console brand that is Xbox. All of this damage orchestrated by this man Phil Spencer. Xbox consoles are a dying breed all due to his failed vision in the console space. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Three]

Revolutionize what? It is a simple iteration from DS4, and the entire core experiencie is rooted on the original Analog Controller, the most important iteration was the trigger bumper buttons on Six Axis and that's it, for the Xbox controller it was just changing the positions of the start/select and black and white into LT and RT.

It's rooted to the original PS1 controller which didn't even have analogs but if you can't see the importance of iteration over gens doesn't mean others don't see them. The addition of analog sticks was important, the addition of triggers were important, the audio jack addition was important, some see gyro as important, others the touchpad for games or for PC navigation. Controllers improved over time and that's a good thing. You could probably use a PS2 controller to play games today but it just wouldn't be as good without the iterations. Doesn't mean improvements are useless and not innovating is fine though. Besides not even MS are doing that now and I'm sure the narrative will change from the xbox regulars when Sebile launches with a lot of Dualsense features. They're just very late with those same improvements and didn’t bundle it when people bought their xboxes unfortunately.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I can't say I agree. They had a fanbase during 360. Xbox had the IPs in Halo, gears, Forza, even massive ones like Minecraft during XB1. They bought established studios like Rare, they had lionhead, ensemble, even bungie at the time. They floundered it all. If anything during the PS3 Sony had very few IPs to rely on. Their biggest mascot belonged to Activision and most of their hitters were third party IPs. They established IPs like Uncharted, LBP, TLOU, Infamous during that gen. They established Horizon, Spiderman, GoT during the next. They didn't rest on their laurels. They didn't have the IP advantage. In the UK and US they didn't even have the fanbase advantage at the time.

They had a fanbase during the 360? That had short term consumers. Most people with a 360 it was their first Xbox console as it sold more than double the OG Xbox (rrod not withstanding).

Bungie left and Epic stopped working on Gears. Forza was never going to outsell Gran Turismo, and Minecraft is multiplatform.

Those studios don't add up to the talent Sony and Nintendo have. It's never been remotely close.

During the PS3 generation Sony had God of War and Gran Turismo and a slew of IP they eschewed in favor of other things and had the studio talent to largely back it up. Naughty Dog gave up on Jak, Sucker Punch gave up on Sly Cooper.

Lionhead wasn't good, Rare wasn't themselves, if anything Rare has been their best for Microsoft under Spencer, and Ensemble was mainly PC.

 

[Justin9mm]

MS don't give a shit about console anymore, I'm pretty sure they are ready to hang up their hat in the coming years if sales continue to decline, their subscription service is all that matters. It's pretty evident.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

When MS leaves Apple will step in and wont be as nice as MS is to the competition

You're axe isnt going to be any good for your next battle if you keep grinding it so relentlessly.

 

[Three]

They had a fanbase during the 360? That had short term consumers. Most people with a 360 it was their first Xbox console as it sold more than double the OG Xbox (rrod not withstanding).

Yeah they did.

Bungie left and Epic stopped working on Gears. Forza was never going to outsell Gran Turismo, and Minecraft is multiplatform.

Those studios don't add up to the talent Sony and Nintendo have. It's never been remotely close.

They had talent in Bungie, Rare, T10, ensemble and lionhead. My point is that they floundered their talent and IPs, the exception being FH. They didn't really build their studio talent enough. They couldn't even keep one of them.

During the PS3 generation Sony had God of War and Gran Turismo and a slew of IP they eschewed in favor of other things and had the studio talent to largely back it up. Naughty Dog gave up on Jak, Sucker Punch gave up on Sly Cooper.

Because they turned those studios around. They made ND, and SP what they are today. At the time ND were no more talented than Rare, SP no more talented than Lionhead. Sony's talent didn't even have a mega IP like Halo. They released unknown at the time IPs like TLOU and Uncharted and grew that audience. I would say Bungie, Rare and Lionhead were very talented but they just did a poor job of expanding their portfolio under MS or bettering the studios.

Lionhead wasn't good, Rare wasn't themselves, if anything Rare has been their best for Microsoft under Spencer, and Ensemble was mainly PC.

Disagree that lionhead wasn't a good studio. Rare under Spencer did what Spencer does best, GaaS and other services like xbox live avatars. Might be good for Rares bottom line but it certainly hasn't been good for xbox the console. They released nothing for Xbox Series, even worse they touted Everwild as an XS game and they've done a poor job delivering anything on it. You wanted examples of a company turning things around for a console in a gen because you think Phil hasn't been given enough time and I think the situation Sony were in with PS3 to PS4 and even Nintendo Wii U to Switch is a prime example of that. To say MS didn’t have IP, talent or a fanbase I don't agree with though. They could have done a much better job with the cards they had but they simply floundered with everything but services.

 

[demigod]

SonyGaf celebrates

It’s hilarious losers like him come here and cry sonygaf, THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE. Another alt im sure.

 

[DryvBy]

They just have to keep trucking along. PS5 clearly has the mind share and market dominance. At this point, for this generation, MS will have to settle for being a secondary option in a lot of households. At this point they have not released enough software outside of Halo, Gears, and Forza to stick that just yet. Starfield alone might not be enough to get a PS5 owner to pickup a Xbox, but as they start to add to that and all the other studios start to release more console exclusive software it will be Starfield, Plus Indiana Jones, plus all the other games coming etc. things will look better. Maybe those Sony users start to realize the value proposition offered by Xbox/GP and make a different choice next time around.

Value? They copied PS Now and put their first party early access on it. By the time say Sea of Thieves got really good, you paid for 2 years of Gamepass lol.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Spencer should make 12 hrs campaigns like spider man.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Value? They copied PS Now and put their first party early access on it. By the time say Sea of Thieves got really good, you paid for 2 years of Gamepass lol.

PSNow was a streaming service filled with last-gen games and GP was a download service that got streaming added on later.

Try harder next time. LOL

 

[VitoNotVito]

China that has super strict regulations for kids and teens playing MP games? Same China that made it hard to get an approved game license even for local companies? Or the China that is mainly gaming on Phones and PCs?

I am sure they are going to buy Xboxes in droves any day now.

Did you not read a word I said or did you just repeat my post?

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Wrong thread, sorry

 

[farmerboy]

 

[DryvBy]

PSNow was a streaming service filled with last-gen games and GP was a download service that got streaming added on later.

Try harder next time. LOL

The PS3 streaming was a thing but downloading games has been a thing for a while. Speaking of value, you getting any more Gold games?

Oh. That's right.

 

[Three]

PSNow was a streaming service filled with last-gen games and GP was a download service that got streaming added on later.

Try harder next time. LOL

I downloaded and played TLOU2 on PSNow on PS4 while it was still PSNow. Wasn't a last gen game nor streaming.

I think the point he was making is that the PS users already have the option to 'see that value' so they are unlikely to switch. A PS+ Premium user had access to games like Spiderman 1, Miles Morales, Returnal, Demon's Souls, Horizon Forbidden West, Death Stranding DC, Ghost Of Tsushima DC, TLOU2, GoW, etc through the subscription service on PS so they might not be persuaded at all. That the 'day 1' nature of the competition might not be that important if the games aren't great or take time to become great. if the current quality of day 1 releases for xbox games is the same as before I agree. I think that was the point he was making, not how the services differed in the past.

I think MS are going to do something completely different though for their next next console. They are going to make cloud hybrid games and concentrate on competing on GaaS. It's what makes sense for their business model.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Too much concern for trillion $ corp that just purchased COD.

Let's do some math here.

We are 3 yrs into console cycle. Entry level GPUs now offer performance offered by premium systems.

You can make a decent pc with a 4060ti for $800. That will match or outperform a Series X/ PS5. That's a slight price bump over a SX but it also offers extra features and worth the premium. Going that route makes more sense.

Series S is still safe cause you cannot make a gaming PC for under $600 regardless of performance, that's quiet a bit more than Series S.

So, pc is the way to go. Xbox sales will drop unless they do a sizeable price cut.

 

[DavidGzz]

If you happen to also own a Playstation alongside your PC then you're not a "3rd rate citizen" and you have nothing to worry about.

And that's exactly the point. If you're an Xbox console player you're quite literally a 3rd rate citizen compared to if you were to play their games on PC considering the fact that they haven't even been bothered to optimise their games for 60fps on console of late. Xbox console owners get zero love and zero preferential treatment from Microsoft, that's why the console is selling as it is. Objectively their consoles are the worst way to experience their games (on hardware in your own home) and there is no upside.

To make matters worse, they aren't even offering a premier cloud solution for their very own games (or service in game pass). Their cloud service is getting trumped by Geforce Now.

They are a rudderless ship.

You just explained why I am a fan of MS's method. Console only gamers can play on Xbox. PC gamers can play on PC. You can say Xbox gamers are missing out on certain things like llike full raytracing and high frames, but they should expect that when they pay far less for their device. I spent 6 times as much as a Series X costs on my PC. The less devices I need to own, the better. I meant that if you're a Sony game fan who only owns a PC, you're a third rate citizen. You have to wait for their titles. And yes, I do own a PS5 because I HAD to to play things like Demon's Souls remastered, TLOU2 at 60 fps, etc. So yes, Sony will always sell more consoles and I think MS knows this. PC gaming is huge and they are just making it bigger.

MS partnered with Nvidia so I can access my Game Pass games on their service so that's a non-issue for me. It's actually pretty awesome.

 

[mckmas8808]

Too much concern for trillion $ corp that just purchased COD.

Let's do some math here.

We are 3 yrs into console cycle. Entry level GPUs now offer performance offered by premium systems.

You can make a decent pc with a 4060ti for $800. That will match or outperform a Series X/ PS5. That's a slight price bump over a SX but it also offers extra features and worth the premium. Going that route makes more sense.

Series S is still safe cause you cannot make a gaming PC for under $600 regardless of performance, that's quiet a bit more than Series S.

So, pc is the way to go. Xbox sales will drop unless they do a sizeable price cut.

I thought $800 was more than $450.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

China that has super strict regulations for kids and teens playing MP games? Same China that made it hard to get an approved game license even for local companies? Or the China that is mainly gaming on Phones and PCs?

I am sure they are going to buy Xboxes in droves any day now.

Yes. It's well known that Xi Jinping doesn't like video games and thinks they are a waste of childrens' time. Anyone desperately hanging hopes on China for saving their video game product is profoundly delusional.

 

[pasterpl]

Surprised not. Xbox never was a powerhouse in Europe, outside the UK (here I am based) it was never a good seller. Not sure why people are excited by obvious things. Reality is that USA, UK and maybe couple other territories are where Xbox has enough brand power to compete with PS, Eu is not one of these, and never was.

 

[DForce]

Surprised not. Xbox never was a powerhouse in Europe, outside the UK (here I am based) it was never a good seller. Not sure why people are excited by obvious things. Reality is that USA, UK and maybe couple other territories are where Xbox has enough brand power to compete with PS, Eu is not one of these, and never was.

I'm sure most people didn't expect Xbox series X/S to perform worse than Xbox One.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I thought $800 was more than $450.

It is.

But ultimately what will you pick?

A lot of xbox players I know are moving to PC without a second thought. I will also get a PC next. Makes too much sense.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It is.

But ultimately what will you pick?

A lot of xbox players I know are moving to PC without a second thought. I will also get a PC next. Makes too much sense.

A small subset will

Others are just buying ps5 instead

 

[Painskiller]

So buying Activision didn't help them? This doesn't surprise me at all XDDD

 

[vaibhavpisal]

A small subset will

Others are just buying ps5 instead

PC/ Xbox is a must have.

But sure, whatever you wanna believe.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PC/ Xbox is a must have.

But sure, whatever you wanna believe.

Plenty of consumers that don’t own an Xbox or a gaming pc at all, so this is false

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Plenty of consumers that don’t own an Xbox or a gaming pc at all, so this is false

Plenty of people with only Xbox/PC/ Switch whatever.

Doesn't mean they don't play other games when opportunity comes.

 

[Heisenberg007]

PC/ Xbox is a must have.

But sure, whatever you wanna believe.

For whom?

The overwhelming majority of gamers instead own PlayStation and Nintendo rather than Xbox and a high-end gaming PC.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

For whom?

The overwhelming majority of gamers instead own PlayStation and Nintendo rather than Xbox and a high-end gaming PC.

What world are we living in?

Desktop gpu market is 6 million + per quarter consistently. On top you have gaming laptops, handhelds.

PlayStation in its best years sell that much.

GPU Market 'Healthy and vibrant' in Q2 2023: Report

AMD regains market share from Nvidia and Intel in Q2.

www.tomshardware.com

Xbox is doing well by targeting PC users instead of going all in on fixed hardware.

If there was any concern about their business, it would reflect in their quarterly reports.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

This is all thanks to Phil Spencer. The man who pushed gamepass more than the console itself. The man who said you don’t need to buy our console to play our games. The man who put Xbox exclusives on PC. The man who decided putting AAA games day one of gamepass was a good thing for the brand. The man who stated in a live video interview that great AAA games won’t sell consoles. The man who said they are not in the business of outconsoling Sony or Nintendo………..all that shite has come back to ruin the console brand that is Xbox. All of this damage orchestrated by this man Phil Spencer. Xbox consoles are a dying breed all due to his failed vision in the console space. The results speak for themselves.

Or maybe… Xbox was hardly ever that popular in Europe and never a real threat to PlayStation’s 30-year absolute, unyielding domination.

Many of you are so blinded by the continuous console warring and keep failing to realize the simple fact that there was never a console war in Europe. Not even in the Nintendo vs Sega days, when Sega was easily the most popular but consoles were the rich kid’s choice vs the widely more popular home computers. Then PS landed and ended all console wars before any could ever actually start. Nobody who was in Europe in the N64 days should be surprised in the least at the performance of Xbox Series. It’s exactly the same situation, and Xbox is actually a better proposition with Game Pass vs the outrageously expensive N64 games.

 

[Zheph]

When they had a strong proposition with X360 they were doing very well in Europe until they stopped caring

 

[CGNoire]

Machinegames are gonna have to strike it out of the park for this game to become a pull factor, the IP seems pretty dead in the public conciousness going by the latest film. Not impossible, but they can't rely on the IP itself to bring players in.

And being 1st person isnt gonna do it any favors either.

 

[Panajev2001a]

When MS leaves Apple will step in and wont be as nice as MS is to the competition

Translation: “Stop hating poor MS for being evil… it is not as bad as the next totally-not-made-up scary monster we are pretending to be Protecting you from. ConSUMeee!!”

 

[Cyberpunkd]

After Microsoft’s incredibly $69 billion acquisition of Call of Duty maker Activision Blizzard, it seems likely Game Pass in particular will become an even more compelling subscription service. But it will take some time for the behemoth publisher to integrate itself into the Microsoft machine, and executives have indicated games such as Blizzard’s Diablo 4 and Activision’s Modern Warfare 3 won’t hit Game Pass until some point in 2024 at the earliest.

I don't think more games will save Game Pass, there is already a lot there, all first party IP Day 1 yet the numbers are not growing even close to what Microsoft predicted. At this point the the current model of GP seems to be flawed at inception.

 

[Osaka_Boss]

The Series consoles are probably doing better then any Xbox console prior.

Xbox has never really had any sort of presence in Japan despite the 360 having some exclusive bangers.

So you don’t hear about it because the difference between 500 a week and 250 isn’t important enough to bother with.

He asked about Asia. Japan is part of Asia, not Asia as a whole. Second reply implying Japan here

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is specifically why MS has made a lot of moves that they've made already, IMO. That's why I got a laugh out of Sony accusing MS of wanting to turn Sony's game business into Nintendo's. I think the reverse is true in a lot of ways, MS wants to turn their own gaming business into Nintendo's (just a little more open with PC and cloud moving some of the emphasis off the hardware). Owning the major pieces of software and services that provide value to the platform while at the same time being a lot less reliant on the third-party offerings that aren't unique.

Also, while many on here can short change the cost of gaming as a hobby, when you look at the real math going on for the bottom 50% of the economy in both the US and most developed nations, I think there is always room for a good value play.

Only difference is that Nintendo learned how to build its first party business vs buying them out trying to pretend to regulators it was not doing it as a shortcut way to take content away from competitors. Corporate culture must change first: 343i has been an example of gaming adapting to the overall MS culture vs other way around and it showed…

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I think the primary problem with the Xbox brand in general is the lack of an identity. PlayStation essentially has everything they have. Not Day one releases on PC and not having an abundance of exclusive games on your console imo is the biggest contributing factor to the lackluster console sales imo.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that the Nintendo Switch is still selling really well especially considering it’s age and hardware specifications. Exclusives, great games and an identity.

 

[Duchess]

Series X is currently selling very well on Amazon UK.

But that's because it's listed at £360, due to Black Friday. I imagine it'll tumble right out the top 50 once the prices goes back up.

 

[ZoolNL]

It has nothing to offer, so why would you buy one? All games are also on PC….

 

[Duchess]

If there was any concern about their business, it would reflect in their quarterly reports.

Um ... did you miss the whole bit where they bought a publisher for $70bn in order to compete in the market place..?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Um ... did you miss the whole bit where they bought a publisher for $70bn in order to compete in the market place..?

It was solid before as well.

Compete is buzzword invented by Phil so court would allow the purchase.

 

[Zheph]

It was solid before as well.

Compete is buzzword invented by Phil so court would allow the purchase.

It must be why they hide the relevant numbers for years now

 

[MasterCornholio]

What world are we living in?

Desktop gpu market is 6 million + per quarter consistently. On top you have gaming laptops, handhelds.

PlayStation in its best years sell that much.

GPU Market 'Healthy and vibrant' in Q2 2023: Report

AMD regains market share from Nvidia and Intel in Q2.

www.tomshardware.com

Xbox is doing well by targeting PC users instead of going all in on fixed hardware.

If there was any concern about their business, it would reflect in their quarterly reports.

You don't need Xbox to game on PC. Pretty much like how you don't need a PS5 to game on consoles.