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Sony president wants to improve margins on their multi-platform releases (Updated w/ analysis)

Does that segment outweigh the benefits of potentially millions of more sales from pc gamers outside that segment?

Isn’t that the more important question?

What millions more? It's not like all of the PC buyers would be strictly them on top of console buyers. A decent portion will comprise of console owners who jumped to PC, so it's a lateral transfer of the sale in that sense. Not an additional sale.

I said in Xbox thread that next ms console should be hybrid windows pc(maybe some special version) with some default Xbox overlay app but able to run GeForce now and steam, box should be upgradable (memory, storage, maybe even gpu) - no more generation shit and set should include dock-able handheld running same OS and using the under TV box almost like eGPU. If Sony would go all in on PC with day1 all games, hybrid (under tv box + dockable handheld) like this would sell very well.

It'd be ironic, in Sony giving a better reason to buy an Xbox (device) than a PlayStation console.

It's 50/50 at this point it could actually happen, which is the concerning part.

The dudes just saying stuff. Consider panicking when you see shit come to fruition. If Phil Spencer is any indication company c suite will talk just to hear themselves talk. Your exclusives could be going to pc day 1. The could also stay staggered releases or even stop coming entirely.

Even if this does happen though the games still come to ps5 and you still enjoy your console gaming experience.

Hiroki Totoki is the President of Sony Corp, he's not some C-level suit. Basically he's Sony's equivalent of Brad Smith.
 
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The industry I loved is still here. The industry many people loved is atill here. The industry he loved was a small circle, a fraction of the full image. Bro did not expand his horizons and now that the only stuff he plays is.... getting ported to other platforms he doesn't know what to do other than whinge. It's insane.

Dozens of genres, companies and games and he exclusively tied himself to sonys brand of third person ots narrative focused games... it's his funeral ngl
I think that’s highly reductive but he’s entitled to his own assessment and opinion. You’ve both been gaming in the same industry for X amount of years I presume. You came away with your take, he has his. I don’t know how that makes him “insane” necessarily
 

Fabieter

Member
What millions more? It's not like all of the PC buyers would be strictly them on top of console buyers. A decent portion will comprise of console owners who jumped to PC, so it's a lateral transfer of the sale in that sense. Not an additional sale.

It was always like that I remember people begging for games like bayonetta, yakuza, persona etc to hit pc and alot of pc players were thinking all of those will sell millions. The thing is some games have just a specific target group and the sales ain't exponential higher because of more platforms.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Hiroki Totoki is the President of Sony Corp, he's not some C-level suit. Basically he's Sony's equivalent of Brad Smith.
Forgive me for my ignorance then (also who's brad smith)

My point is that these guys say a lot but until I see it happen with my 2 eyes I think it's crazy to assume the worst case scenario (for fanboys anyways) just because of a statement made.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Day 1 on PC coming? That's the obvious next step.
This is a wild goose chase. They would temporarily increase short-term revenue by releasing games on PC day one but then lose revenue and profitability on console in the long run. In the end, they will end up with the same problem.

The focus should be on reducing costs -- not just increasing revenue -- to increase profit margins.
 

Stuart360

Member
This is a wild goose chase. They would temporarily increase short-term revenue by releasing games on PC day one but then lose revenue and profitability on console in the long run. In the end, they will end up with the same problem.

The focus should be on reducing costs -- not just increasing revenue -- to increase profit margins.
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
 
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
Lol uhhh I think there’s another big difference youre leaving out
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
But higher player count on PC will not necessarily mean success. It's more nuanced than that. It's wrong to ignore that nuance and simply say "Sony games should be day and date on PC." (not directing it to you; just saying in general).

- Is the additional profit on PC by releasing on day one (vs. releasing 2 years later) more than the profit you gain by increasing console share and driving people to your ecosystem?
- Does day one PC releases (70% revenue) cannibalize games sales on PS (100% revenue)?
- Does it have any negative effect on PS consumer buying behavior on PS for first- and third-party software?

Lots of questions to answer first before that decision should be made.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This is a wild goose chase. They would temporarily increase short-term revenue by releasing games on PC day one but then lose revenue and profitability on console in the long run. In the end, they will end up with the same problem.

The focus should be on reducing costs -- not just increasing revenue -- to increase profit margins.
It’s getting there slowly. Mlb the Show is already day one on Xbox and switch. And Helldivers 2 is Sony’s first new gaas game and already day one PC.

If this was 2019, nobody would had guessed Horizon and Days Gone would be PC, or the other games on PC, xBox or switch by Feb 2024.

Things can change a lot: look how much Sonys multiplat game strategy changed from zero in 2019 to now.
 
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Kilau

Gold Member
I used this for the Xbros but even more now for the PS guys, this week gone from one extreme to the other.

tenor.gif
 

Darsxx82

Member
But higher player count on PC will not necessarily mean success. It's more nuanced than that. It's wrong to ignore that nuance and simply say "Sony games should be day and date on PC." (not directing it to you; just saying in general).

- Is the additional profit on PC by releasing on day one (vs. releasing 2 years later) more than the profit you gain by increasing console share and driving people to your ecosystem?
- Does day one PC releases (70% revenue) cannibalize games sales on PS (100% revenue)?
- Does it have any negative effect on PS consumer buying behavior on PS for first- and third-party software?

Lots of questions to answer first before that decision should be made.
From today's words......that decision has already been made and the process has been activated.

These are decisions in complicated situations. It is clear that they have already studied the pros and cons. It will be seen in 5-6 years if they are right or not.
 
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DrFigs

Member
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
I thought your point here was going to be that Helldivers 2, a AA game, made more money for sony than a lot of its AAA large budget games, showing that sony can make a ton of money by lowering cost of game development. of course it's also a GAAS, so it'll continue to print money assuming player counts hold up.
 

Fabieter

Member
From today's words......that decision has already been made and the process has been activated.

These are decisions in complicated situations. It is clear that they have already studied the pros and cons. It will be seen in 5-6 years if they are right or not.

Well there wont be a going back if they aint right.
 

DrFigs

Member
From today's words......that decision has already been made and the process has been activated.

These are decisions in complicated situations. It is clear that they have already studied the pros and cons. It will be seen in 5-6 years if they are right or not.
the problem is, that these decisions can't be reversed. it's not like if the ps6 starts doing poorly that Sony is going to then start witholding pc releases. that would cause them to lose even more money. it's such a poor road to go down and extremely risky.
 

Bry0

Member
What millions more? It's not like all of the PC buyers would be strictly them on top of console buyers. A decent portion will comprise of console owners who jumped to PC, so it's a lateral transfer of the sale in that sense. Not an additional sale.
I know that’s what I said, and I will reword it. does the ”lateral transfer” of sales from a minority of ps5 players moving over outweigh all the additional sales from pc players who were never getting a ps5 anyway?

We saw the sales numbers from the insomniac leak for pc ports, I highly doubt those millions of sales all came from people who decided to sell their ps5 and go to pc. I would think the majority of those purchases came from pc gamers who don’t have a console.
 
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DrFigs

Member
I know that’s what I said, and I will reword it. does the ”lateral transfer” of sales from a minority of ps5 players moving over outweigh all the additional sales from pc players who were never getting a ps5 anyway?
I'm not the same guy, but (1) i fundamentally just disagree w/ the idea that pc gamers are fundamentally different from console gamers such that they would actually never get a ps5. I think most wouldn't. But there are tons of pc die hards on this board who own a switch. it's not infeasible that sony could win them over w/ exclusives. (2) sony putting their games on pc will be increasing the pc marketshare. Whatever share of lateral transfers we have now will increase dramatically if PS games went to pc day one, and suddenly, things that may have been profitable in the short run will become less and less profitable as more people move over. this is why some of us are saying its a short-sighted plan.
 

Fredrik

Member
You get like double to triple the performance of a console for 2k. A console like experience might costs 1k at most.
Doesn’t matter, consoles and PCs aren’t going for the same people, it’s not the same market.

re. MS - It all depends, if it is going to be limited to gaas (these type of games should be everywhere to maximise profits), and some older, smaller games then the impact should not be that big. We don’t know yet what exactly MS is planning.

re. Sony we don’t know exactly what they mean by going Multiplatform
Small games or not, doesn’t matter, it’ll still remove reasons to own the console. And Sony just announce that they’ll have a game drought in 2024, a day before Microsoft’s ”business update” about going multiplat… Microsoft will literally help Sony through a difficult period. It’s like a comedy at this point.
 

Fabieter

Member
Doesn’t matter, consoles and PCs aren’t going for the same people, it’s not the same market.


Small games or not, doesn’t matter, it’ll still remove reasons to own the console. And Sony just announce that they’ll have a game drought in 2024, a day before Microsoft’s ”business update” about going multiplat… Microsoft will literally help Sony through a difficult period. It’s like a comedy at this point.

So many people switched from consoles to pc. Can't agree that it isn't the same market.
 

Darsxx82

Member
Well there wont be a going back if they aint right.
the problem is, that these decisions can't be reversed. it's not like if the ps6 starts doing poorly that Sony is going to then start witholding pc releases. that would cause them to lose even more money. it's such a poor road to go down and extremely risky.
Of course, but we are on an escalation where not making the decision in the correcto time can also become a total fatality. It's a really complicated situation.

Personally, I believe that the move to multiplatformity is what everyone in the Industry sees as the least bad way at the moment to ensure the viability of the business a decade from now.

I think everyone in the industry believes that the future of gaming is moving away from consoles and what they are capable of generating. And if that happens, they want to be well positioned.

Today only one thing is clear. If you want to grow and achieve decente profits, you have to expand the user base where you can bring your games from the moment these games cost 5x more, are released every 5-6 or more years and you are not sure that these will end up being a success.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Totoki should understand that margins for will not improve if they continue broadening multiplatform release schedules.
 

Zathalus

Member
It was always like that I remember people begging for games like bayonetta, yakuza, persona etc to hit pc and alot of pc players were thinking all of those will sell millions. The thing is some games have just a specific target group and the sales ain't exponential higher because of more platforms.
Aren't they? Yakuza and Persona sales are far higher now compared to when they were PS exclusives. Both game series have sold millions on PC already.
 

Bry0

Member
I'm not the same guy, but (1) i fundamentally just disagree w/ the idea that pc gamers are fundamentally different from console gamers such that they would actually never get a ps5. I think most wouldn't. But there are tons of pc die hards on this board who own a switch. it's not infeasible that sony could win them over w/ exclusives. (2) sony putting their games on pc will be increasing the pc marketshare. Whatever share of lateral transfers we have now will increase dramatically if PS games went to pc day one, and suddenly, things that may have been profitable in the short run will become less and less profitable as more people move over. this is why some of us are saying its a short-sighted plan.
I understand what you’re saying, I guess I’m just not convinced by those arguments. To your first point, most of my friend group are pc only gamers, and they simply don’t have the time to care about ps5 exclusives enough to buy a console for it, but if the games came to them they would consider them. Pc players have tons of choice so there is never a draught for games. In fact I am a pc first player but I have a ps5, I know we exist because I am one of those people, but I think I am in a very small group of hyper enthusiast gamers, like most of us are here. We are not representative of the greater market imo, and I think there are way more people like my friends than like me. As to point 2, unless there is some market research or sales data you guys have to prove this, it just seems like a theory to me.

I would wager Sony is doing this because they believe it will be a net positive for revenue and they must have some data to believe that it is sustainable and will pump margins.
 

Baki

Member
Totoki is going to kill the golden goose. He has no vision and has under invested in PlayStation. He needs to go. Sony is an uninspired company under him and that’s reflected in their <11 PE ratio.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.

Yep. Waiting two full years is incredibly dumb. They’re losing sales by releasing games after hype and interest long dried up.

Helldivers 2 had both PS5 and PC players hyped. Notice how there’s no hype at all for Forbidden West? I bet it won’t hit Helldiver 2’s numbers.
 

RickMasters

Member
I used this for the Xbros but even more now for the PS guys, this week gone from one extreme to the other.

tenor.gif


I’m thinking None of us fully understand the nature of the changes coming in the industry. I look at all the layoffs…. Devs complaining about the cost of making games, the working environment they endure…. Embraced going on that spending spree only to have to roll things back drastically…. Companies like square selling millions and saying…. “ we are not making enough money” it’s so easy for people to scoff at them and say they already make millions but they know their books and their operating costs and some things on the horizon clearly have them spooked.


Of course none of us see it because we can’t see past our brands and games and ideologies about what we thing gaming should look like. The only people who call the shots are the ones writing the cheques and have the resources.



I think Sony are a far more secretive company these days as far as PlayStation but those leaked memes a while back really highlighted their concerns and why they are so quite these days. They are spooked about where things are going too. They won yesterdays game. The traditional model. But that model is dying. That model don’t make the money they need even if it still makes them money right now. They are coasting off good will, reputation and btw and power…. Clearly not the same company from the PS1 and PS2 days. They don’t know where things are going apart from the importance of the user account and player retention and spending Vs merely consoles sold. But they can count on the old business model for Atleast another gen… and then what? When store fronts are more platform agnostic and it’s all about playing those games on any device that has those store fronts….. well… that changes everything and that’s kind where we are at….. this is why we see companies like epic fighting apple to put their own store fronts on those devices bypassing the device manufacturers store altogether. To any company that has a walled garden economy ( apple, Google, and yes even the likes of Playstation) that is a worrying thought because they lose money by the game not needing to be on their store front but still usable on their device. Of course MS are no strangers to this because windows already hosts every type of store front from iTunes to steam. But maybe this is why Sony and Nintendo don’t want gamepass on their platforms. Let’s say it game to those platforms with all its features intact…. Full library of games like what is on Xbox, EA play included, Ubisoft+ if you pay the extra. That’s a lot of revenue Sony would lose on their own console to MS, store front in their own system. Who knows maybe one day MS brute force the issue like epic did with apple. Gamers will love it, Sony will absolutely hate it. I think that’s the other danger of MS ditching consoles to the other two. They may force gamepass onto their platforms fully intact even with overlapping games I some cases. There’s the danger of gamepass being the better sub service on PSN or Nintendo than their own services. And maybe deep down that’s part of MS plan. To make Sony and Nintendo the hardware providers and MS owning ever more studios and publishers having the upper hand to do so by way of owning so many big 3P IP.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Are you saying margins will improve if multiplatform release schedules are closer to initial launch?
No, I'm saying the opposite.
You're not expanding the player base, you're just incentivizing more people to play on PC. That will just eat into revenue.

Aren't they? Yakuza and Persona sales are far higher now compared to when they were PS exclusives. Both game series have sold millions on PC already.
I don't think they're higher because of PC, I think they're faster.

They're higher because it's no longer 2006, and there's less competition in the even marginally well-budgeted JRPG space.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yep. Waiting two full years is incredibly dumb. They’re losing sales by releasing games after hype and interest long dried up.

Helldivers 2 had both PS5 and PC players hyped. Notice how there’s no hype at all for Forbidden West? I bet it won’t hit Helldiver 2’s numbers.
Helldivers 2 success will accelerate Sonys porting strategy to PC. After their bean counters analyze the data and see big PC sales don’t eat into PS gamers switching to PC, they’ll finally realize you can do both and the Sony ecosystem won’t crumble.

You can tell they are already there as they even stated they were going to do PC day one for gaas games. But Helldivers 2 is the first game to test that theory. And they were right launching it day one instead of their usual two year port strategy.

Anyone who thinks that Helldivers 2 success in PC means PS gamers will flock to PC losing them tons of Ps ecosystem gamers will be dead wrong.

You’ll be able to tell. If Sony keeps doing day one gaas it means it’s a net beneficial strategy. If Sony cuts the cord in their next gaas game giving it a delayed release it means there is a net loss to the ecosystem.
 
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Dane

Member


Until when will this factor be denied? We haven't moved from the 180 million console HD market for decades, and yet the budget costs are far higher than its install base and inflation, even if you count a bigger attach rate on the platforms it also means a lot of copies bought at discount (remember the ex Sony Bend founder saying you need to buy at launch?).

I still remember, back in 2008 or 2011, it was a news regarding the ballooning costs of videogame software and my memory vaguely says it had to do with SoulCalibur IV or V and its launch DLC, which would then kickstart into the infamous locked on disc content DLC (Street Fighter x Tekken intensifies) which was basically serving as a way to make the net revenue they had the generation prior. 70 bucks and zero scummy DLC would have been a consideration back then.
 
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onQ123

Member
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
Wrong it did better on PC because it's more PC orientated than the other Sony games
 
The same top end console enthusiasts who bought...

Unimpressed Sea GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants


Only a million PS4 pros?

Wow. Losing a million sales. What a threat to sony and the PlayStation brand.

Don't you mean 20 million PS4 Pros?

That was the number in the Insomniac data, anyway. So about little over 1 in every 6 PS4s was a Pro model.

Wrong it did better on PC because it's more PC orientated than the other Sony games.

Also very likely most of the HD2 Steam buyers would've bought the game on PS5 if that was the only platform it was on. So it's less like whatever the Steam customer numbers are, being pure additions, and more like at least half of those being PS5 purchasers if that was the only system available for the game at launch.

A lateral transfer, basically.
 
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Ogbert

Member
Helldovers 2, a AA game, has beaten all other Sony PC releases by a wide margin, even massive hitters like GOW and Spiderman.
Whats the difference between those releases?, Helldivers launched day and date on PC.

Like i have said many times on here, i feel Sony games will be day and date on PC by the end of the gen, and the way its going it could be before the end of the gen.
The difference is it’s good and it’s a shooter.
 

Stuart360

Member
Wrong it did better on PC because it's more PC orientated than the other Sony games
To an extent yeah, but Returnal is ina genre loved on PC and it flopped. I was dead wromng about it too as i thought it was going to be one of Sony's bigger hits.

The point still stands though. Release Helldivers 2 years after Playstation and it wouldnt be doing the numbers its doing. Likewise Release GOW and Spidrman day and date with Playstation and their numbers would of been much higher.

I feel a lot of people have their heads in the sand over this. Its only a matter of when, not if, Sony starts doing day and date on PC.
 

Fabieter

Member
Yes? Yakuza 0 has 2.8 million sold on Steam by itself. Persona 4 is at 1.6 million.

Yakuza: Like a Dragon sold 1.8 million world wide across all platforms and stores, 800k of that was on Steam.

Are those numbers from steamspy? Care to share a source?

It's was clearly worth it for them but I still think pc players overhyped the sales potential by a good margin not like Sega cares since they have their own data.
 
Anyway, Sony are clearly announcing exactly the same strategy as MS, or at the very least a flexibility towards their strategy.

Instead, everyone will ignore it and hyperventilate tomorrow when MS says the same thing.

Call me when Sony releases its games on Xbox....

I will wait....

But Xbox stans really needed this tweet I guess to feel better

Tomorrow is gonna be a bloodbath
 
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reinking

Gold Member
I don’t know… …the more I have thought about this the more concerned I am. I have no problem with PlayStation games going to PC. I am more concerned about the comments in which it sounds like the console focus is getting nudged over a bit. Really, any time I hear a CEO talking about using synergies to be more aggressive and growing margins it raises a red flag. I am starting to get the feeling that retro gaming is my future.
 
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Fabieter

Member
To an extent yeah, but Returnal is ina genre loved on PC and it flopped. I was dead wromng about it too as i thought it was going to be one of Sony's bigger hits.

The point still stands though. Release Helldivers 2 years after Playstation and it wouldnt be doing the numbers its doing. Likewise Release GOW and Spidrman day and date with Playstation and their numbers would of been much higher.

I feel a lot of people have their heads in the sand over this. Its only a matter of when, not if, Sony starts doing day and date on PC.

It doesnt make sense to stop at pc. Release it everywhere including mobile if possible.
 
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