Stop using weight as a factor. That would get laughed out of court. I'm 210 pounds and I have no doubt that I could kick the crap out of someone that was 500 pounds. Agility, speed, and intelligence are more valuable in a fight. More than likely this is going to come down to self-defense. A good lawyer could argue that if Trayvon did in fact attack Zimmerman, he was doing so in self-defense because the dude was clearly (and admittedly) stalking him.
It doesn't matter whether or not he's racist. He stalked and killed an unarmed teenager he outweighed by 100 lbs. And why did he kill him? Because the teen acted in self defense against someone stalking him in the middle of the night.
That's murder. There was only one party acting out of self-defense. Unless you believe Zimmerman's story, which is essentially that Travyon at first tried running away from Zimmerman (he says this himself in the 911 call, Travyon was fleeing), then had a change of heart and stalked Zimmerman back to his car and jumped him. (this being the 3rd revision of Zimmerman's story IIRC)
Assuming Narrative #1 turns out to be true then yeah ... it's murder. If Narrative #2 is true it's self defence.
Personally I have no opinion until I see a conviction or exoneration. I won't convict a man who claims he is innocent in the court of public opinion before he has had a fair trial with all the evidence being weighed out before a jury of peers.
Assuming Narrative #1 turns out to be true then yeah ... Zimmerman committed murder and is guilty. If Narrative #2 is true Zimmerman acted in self defence and is innocent.
Personally I have no opinion until I see a conviction or exoneration. I won't convict a man who claims he is innocent in the court of public opinion before he has had a fair trial with all the evidence being weighed out before a jury of peers.
Considering the fact we wouldn't even know that this story existed unless people went out of their way to kick and scream about how twisted the whole investigation was, fuck waiting for the justice system to decide how guilty he is. That same system nearly swept the whole fucking thing under the rug. No one has to wait for a court to give them the ok to have an opinion on this.
bamelin said:The issue of the cops not arresting him now though ... fuck that. Typical racial profiling of an investigation I think. That's a whole OTHER narrative that really needs to be fixed. It is also (I think) a part of why people are SO pissed. Black guy gets shot, light skinned guy walks without even a trial to determine guilt or innocence, that is bullshit.
Stop using weight as a factor. That would get laughed out of court. I'm 210 pounds and I have no doubt that I could kick the crap out of someone that was 500 pounds. Agility, speed, and intelligence are more valuable in a fight. More than likely this is going to come down to self-defense. A good lawyer could argue that if Trayvon did in fact attack Zimmerman, he was doing so in self-defense because the dude was clearly (and admittedly) stalking him.
Yeah, that's why boxing and UFC and wrestling commissions let 200 pound dudes fight 280 pound dudes all the time. The world does not actually operate like Street Fighter.
Also, someone simply following you does not give you the right to attack them in "self-defense." Only a terrible lawyer would argue that.
Stalking and then chasing someone down doesn't give you the right to attack them in self defense? What?
right. Trayvon's use of force was justified self-defense. Any force on Zimmerman's part is criminal.
The only question is to what extent? Manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, or 1st degree murder?
Fits to a tee, no?In all of these cases, the death must come through “culpable negligence,” which means the behavior at issue must be so careless that it rises to the level of a crime.
After being beaten to the ground by Towering Black Football Player Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman reluctantly pulls the trigger in self-defense. Martin falls back and lets loose a mighty African laugh. "So it begins!" he cries (translated from thug language).
The transponder on his wrist contacts the White House, where Operation Caliphate sits waiting.
"Your majesty," cries an aide (likely homosexual), "Agent Martin, codenamed Fire of Allah, has completed his mission!"
Imam Hussein Obama clasps his hands and smirks, a "jazz cigarette" in his mouth. "And now the honkies will pay."
+1Perception or not when someone is shot to death a proper investigation should be carried out. The fact that the police dept. decided to drug test the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me something. The fact that the police dept. decided to run a background check on the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me more. The fact that the police don't even arrest the man tells me all I need to know.
If their ethnic background were reversed is there ANYONE in this thread that has any doubt that dude would have been locked up by that police dept. from the start? Anyone?
Trevor Dooley tried that bullshit and didn't get away without a fucking trial....funny how that works...
After being beaten to the ground by Towering Black Football Player Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman reluctantly pulls the trigger in self-defense. Martin falls back and lets loose a mighty African laugh. "So it begins!" he cries (translated from thug language).
The transponder on his wrist contacts the White House, where Operation Caliphate sits waiting.
"Your majesty," cries an aide (likely homosexual), "Agent Martin, codenamed Fire of Allah, has completed his mission!"
Imam Hussein Obama clasps his hands and smirks, a "jazz cigarette" in his mouth. "And now the honkies will pay."
You can use force only when you have a reasonable belief that someone is imminently about to use unlawful force against you. It's right there in the statute. Someone simply following you would not fit the bill. You added "chasing someone down," and I don't know what you mean by that.
Fits to a tee, no?
What's the legal definition of "reasonable belief"?
If a man of ordinary prudence, under the circumstances, would have believed that unlawful force was imminent.
You can use force only when you have a reasonable belief that someone is imminently about to use unlawful force against you. It's right there in the statute. Someone simply following you would not fit the bill. You added "chasing someone down," and I don't know what you mean by that.
Yeah, that's why boxing and UFC and wrestling commissions let 200 pound dudes fight 280 pound dudes all the time. The world does not actually operate like Street Fighter.
Also, someone simply following you does not give you the right to attack them in "self-defense." Only a terrible lawyer would argue that.
After being beaten to the ground by Towering Black Football Player Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman reluctantly pulls the trigger in self-defense. Martin falls back and lets loose a mighty African laugh. "So it begins!" he cries (translated from thug language).
The transponder on his wrist contacts the White House, where Operation Caliphate sits waiting.
"Your majesty," cries an aide (likely homosexual), "Agent Martin, codenamed Fire of Allah, has completed his mission!"
Imam Hussein Obama clasps his hands and smirks, a "jazz cigarette" in his mouth. "And now the honkies will pay."
Basically I see two very distinct and opposing narratives coming out in the media concerning all of this.
Narrative #1. Trayvon, a young black youth, is walking home from store after buying bag of skittles. Racist overzealous neighborhood watch captain Zimmerman follows Trayvon, chases Tayvon down, confronts him (after being told not to by 911 operators), a scuffle ensues and Zimmerman shoots the unarmed Trayvon dead, an obvious use of excessive force.
Narrative #2. Tayvon, a troubled black youth, is walking home from store, possibly casing out some houses for future crimes. Zimmerman a well known and respected neighborhood watch captain, contacts the authorities while keeping tabs on Tayvon's location. Tayvon confronts Zimmerman, attacking and breaking Zimmerman's nose. Zimmerman is forced to fire on Tayvon in self defence shooting him dead, an obvious need to use excessive force.
Personally I'm withholding any opinion and waiting to see how the courts sort it all out. There are two VERY different stories being played out in the media right now, and without all the facts of the case it's impossible for any of us to really know what went down.
What a lame analogy. In boxing, UFC etc both fighters train for a fight. How in shape is Zimmerman? How strong is he? What experience does he have as a fighter? You don't know. Weight is meaningless here.
And yeah, being stalked/hunted is reason enough to defend yourself. You should probably know the law before arguing it. Might help you stop from coming off as stupidly naive.
He stalked martin and when martin got scared and started running, he got out of the car and went after him. It's all on the 911 tapes. If you're going to say that is not reasonable belief someone is about to use unlawful force, then I've got nothing else to say.
I guess if a woman is being chased down a dark alley by a man, she shouldn't do anything until he begins to try and rape her right?
I agree with this. Both sides are going way over the top. I still feel that Zimmerman has to prove that he did nothing wrong, because at the end of the day he was armed and stalking Martin based on the 911 call he made.
But now that all this information is coming out suddenly the "facts" everyone kept bringing up are turning out to be false or exaggerated.
All that really needs to be said here is Zimmerman appointed himself head of the neighborhood watch and called 911 upwards of 40 times last year. The guy seemed to be looking for some action.
I don't know what happened that day but it was clear that he was told not to pursue and he decided he should.
This one always bugs me, do you get some extra privileges with being in a neighborhood watch or is it just a fancy name? Like what if he asks for id and I tell him to get lost?
I agree with this. Both sides are going way over the top. I still feel that Zimmerman has to prove that he did nothing wrong, because at the end of the day he was armed and stalking Martin based on the 911 call he made.
But now that all this information is coming out suddenly the "facts" everyone kept bringing up are turning out to be false or exaggerated.
All that really needs to be said here is Zimmerman appointed himself head of the neighborhood watch and called 911 upwards of 40 times last year. The guy seemed to be looking for some action.
I don't know what happened that day but it was clear that he was told not to pursue and he decided he should.
This. Everyone is begging to eat crow. I remember when the Duke Lacrosse guys were 100% guilty.
This guy should be tried and if he is guilty based on the evidence then he should get punished. Making a circus of this case will only make things worse.
This is wrong right? I heard something like 46 calls over 8 years. 6 calls a year doesn't seem too crazy to me.
This is wrong right? I heard something like 46 calls over 8 years. 6 calls a year doesn't seem too crazy to me.
Records reveal that George Zimmerman, who claims he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in self-defense, made dozens of phone calls to 911 in approximately a year's time.
This revelation, reported by The Miami Herald, indicates Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, called authorities 46 times in total since Jan. 2011, regarding open windows, break-ins, disturbances and other such incidences in the area.
How many times do you call 911 a year? Hell I'm not sure I've done it 6 times in my life, period.
I've called twice in my life I think. Once was a pocket call by accident.
With that said I live in a plushy condo in a nice area of downtown Toronto. I'm guessing certain locales are prone to more 911 calls than others.
"victim" #3bjb
Banned
(Today, 01:15 PM)
Oh, how sweet it is.
You might want to read up on what he made the calls about. Like an elementary school aged black kid.
This event is logged in the document you provided. The description reads:
"...is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street....concerned for well being."
This one always bugs me, do you get some extra privileges with being in a neighborhood watch or is it just a fancy name? Like what if he asks for id and I tell him to get lost?
Leaked by the department? What the fuck.I don't know if this has been posted but if it's true that the police is involved then that's really shady man:
Trayvon Martin suspended for having pot at school; police allegedly leaked story
Must not feed the contrarian. Also brb calling the cops on all the kids walking home from school today. Wait I should only do it for the black children.
Well, this probably is not going to help this thread any but if I don't post it someone will. Just heard on the news Trayvon's mom filed for trademarks on two different phrases in relation to Trayvon including "I am Trayvon"