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[ReadingRambo]

That argument relies on the assumption that only the largest segments of a group are worth representing.

No it does not. No where did I make that argument. I did not say "Django shouldn't have been made because no one lived like this." I said it wasn't useful as a historical piece. It is, however, the sort of thing that could drastically alter public perception of slavery in a way that doesn't jive with history.

 

[teruterubozu]

everything Tarantino does and has ever done has been over the top bombastic gratuitous cinema, I wonder if certain people will ever stop being offended by every movie he makes lol

Exactly. Tarantino wants to offend some people. He invites controversy.

 

[Dead Man]

No it does not. No where did I make that argument. I did not say "Django shouldn't have been made because no one lived like this." I said it wasn't useful as a historical piece. It is, however, the sort of thing that could drastically alter public perception of slavery in a way that doesn't jive with history.

It's not useful as a historical piece because it is totally fictional. That wasn't your criticism though.

The vast majority of slaves would have experienced nothing resembling what goes on in this film. That is why the film isn't terribly useful as a historical piece

You are saying that since it does not reflect the majority experience it is not useful.

 

[ReadingRambo]

You are saying that since it does not reflect the majority experience it is not useful as a historical piece.

Don't misquote me to strengthen your argument.

I'll go so far as to say it reflected no one's experience ever.

 

[Dead Man]

I'll go so far as to say it reflected no one's experience ever.

Fine. But your argument is exactly what you said you never said.

Edit: Misquote? It is a copy and paste of what you typed. You need to ly dow I think.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Fine. But your argument is exactly what you said you never said.

Edit: Misquote? It is a copy and paste of what you typed. You need to ly dow I think.

If you can't see how your exclusion of "as a historical piece" from my words in your quotation alters my intent then I have nothing else to say to you as you just want to argue it seems.

 

[Batman]

The word has to stop being used by anybody, it should be completely erased.

 

[Dead Man]

If you can't see how your exclusion of "as a historical piece" from my words in your quotation alters my intent then I have nothing else to say to you as you just want to argue it seems.

You didn't say what you said but I should feel bad for saying that you said it. Cool. Look, I agreed it was not useful as a historical piece, I am not ignoring that that is what we are talking about. I quoted the reason you said it was not useful as a historical piece. Shall I say it again with the four extra words on the end? Okay.

The vast majority of slaves would have experienced nothing resembling what goes on in this film. That is why the film isn't terribly useful as a historical piece

You are saying that since it does not reflect the majority experience it is not useful AS A HISTORICAL PIECE.

Still a stupid statement.

Edit: I also never excluded those words from what I quoted, nor did I misquote you.

 

[ReadingRambo]

The word has to stop being used by anybody, it should be completely erased.

Despite being impossible, all it would do is create a new, equally offensive word. Words are born of ideas and meaning, not the other way around.

 

[Dude Abides]

Didn't he see Pulp Fiction and the whole "dead nigger storage" bit?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Sorry you didn't enjoy it, Lee.

The rest of us black folk did.

 

[AdventureMike]

I wonder if Mr. Daniels enjoyed Roots. It's been many years since I've seen it, but I'm fairly sure that there was a good amount of white people in that film that used the word in a derogatory manner.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

This is ridiculous.

He has no problem with the word itself, just when a white boy uses it. And he's accusing Quentin of racism?

Pfft.

Pathetic.

he pretty much says white people can't use the N-word but blacks can... seems like this person is against equal rights. Is that pretty much racist of him (for the lack of a better word).

Please don't pull this 'reverse racism' crap. Please.

 

[Dead Man]

I wonder if Mr. Daniels enjoyed Roots. It's been many years since I've seen it, but I'm fairly sure that there was a good amount of white people in that film that used the word in a derogatory manner.

I think Roots was mostly written by a black person, wasn't it? Not that I disagree with your sentiment.

 

[captainnapalm]

Didn't he see Pulp Fiction and the whole "dead nigger storage" bit?

I wonder if people think that was out of line and inappropriate. Because I'd totally defend the use of the word there as well.

 

[okdakor]

The vast majority of slaves would have experienced nothing resembling what goes on in this film.

They were still called niggers I guess... the use of the word is accurate

 

[ReadingRambo]

They were still called niggers I guess... the use of the word is accurate

Yeah absolutely.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Even though I dislike Gervais...

This still stands, absolutely. And I guess nobody ever, ever used that particular word in the deep south during slave times right? You know, during the time period in which this is set? They certainly didn't call the slaves "lil buddy".

I wonder if people think that was out of line and inappropriate. Because I'd totally defend the use of the word there as well.

Oh god, I'm sure he'd have a field day with that one. "The character is played by Quentin Tarantino and therefore is Quentin Tarantino, he shouldn't say nigger it's offensive".

 

[grimshawish]

Please don't pull this 'reverse racism' crap. Please.

He specifically states that he sees Tarantino, not in a physically descriptive way but as a person; as a white man. He specifically calls him just 'white man'.

If you don't think thats racist then am sorry but I think your starting assumptions on race are entirely wrong. The man is obviously bigoted and people like him will never help change the world.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

He specifically states that he sees Tarantino, not in a physically descriptive way but as a person; as a white man. He specifically calls him just 'white man'.

If you don't think thats racist then am sorry but I think your starting assumptions on race are entirely wrong. The man is obviously bigoted and people like him will never help change the world.

Since when is being called 'white man' offensive? It's what he, literally, is.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Please don't pull this 'reverse racism' crap. Please.

Wait, what? Are you serio....

He specifically states that he sees Tarantino, not in a physically descriptive way but as a person; as a white man. He specifically calls him just 'white man'.

If you don't think thats racist then am sorry but I think your starting assumptions on race are entirely wrong. The man is obviously bigoted and people like him will never help change the world.

Yeah, whatever that guy said.

It's not reverse racism, I'm simply pointing out that he only seems to care that a white man says it. Which, no matter how you try and cut it, is blatantly racist. (calling him' white man' isn't particularly racist imo, just the idea that a word is only suitable if used my a certain colour of skin is so obviously racist, I can't see how you'd try to argue otherwise.)

It's cool for one colour skin to use it, but not another?

It's like when people say, "how were you offended by that racist joke, you're white!" Yeah, because only black people can be offended by racism.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Since when is being called 'white man' offensive? It's what he, literally, is.

Daniels saying "white man" wasn't the racist part.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Daniels saying "white man" wasn't the racist part.

Yup.

Daniels saying, "The white man shouldn't use our word" is incredibly racist.

 

[whytemyke]

If he wants to be offended that's one thing.

But he really doesn't have a right to say, in a roundabout way, that black people who aren't offended either aren't smart enough to be or aren't being black enough. That, really, is what's so ridiculous about his comments.

I'm sure black people are used to this crap by now, but that divisiveness is far worse than anything QT puts in a movie.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

It's not reverse racism, I'm simply pointing out that he only seems to care that a white man says it. Which, no matter how you try and cut it, is blatantly racist. (calling him' white man' isn't particularly racist imo, just the idea that a word is only suitable if used my a certain colour of skin is so obviously racist, I can't see how you'd try to argue otherwise.)

It's cool for one colour skin to use it, but not another?

It's like when people say, "how were you offended by that racist joke, you're white!" Yeah, because only black people can be offended by racism.

Right. I'm going to bed.

 

[grimshawish]

Since when is being called 'white man' offensive? It's what he, literally, is.

Physically he is a man who is white. The way it is phrased here is as follows:

I can't judge from a white man's perspective if he's using the n-word. He made that word up in a negative way, so if he's using it, then it's negative to me. He has no right to it.

Hes treating anyone who is white as a stereotype and putting them inside a bigoted box.
I think it was Malcolm X who talked about how he snapped at a girl for telling him she wanted to ensure equality between whites and blacks and a world they can live in together, he snapped at her. Why? Because at the time he believed whites and blacks couldn't be equal. They were instead distinct people to him who could never get a long. He

In the later years of his life he rejected racism and extremism as he began to realise the dangers that hatred could spew. He was killed as a consequence of the changes to his views and for going against the teachings of extremist islam of which he once followed and preached.


Daniels in this case is basically suggesting that someone is white and is thus different from someone that is black. Not only based on the colour of their skin but somehow in their personality or tight.

How do you suppose this is not racist of him?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Yup.

Daniels saying, "The white man shouldn't use our word" is incredibly racist.

Dem White men are sleeping with our women!

 

[Aquamarine]

I'm personally offended that Daniels is trying to push two races apart by creating a false "us vs. them" scenario.

The whole purpose of a modern society is to integrate, not segregate. These kinds of statements hold our society back from progress.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Right. I'm going to bed.

 

[Htown]

This thread is weird because Lee Daniels is super wrong about this, but I feel like some of you guys are coming at him for the wrong reasons and it's making me kind of uncomfortable.

 

[Tawpgun]

Tarantino does use the n word a lot in his movies. More so than the standard movie.

But this was a movie about slave-age america about a slave. It'd be fucking weird if they DIDN'T use it.

 

[NinjaFridge]

Dem White men are sleeping with our women!

Where all the black women at?

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

*breathe in*

Racism is not this:

This is how racism works:

Reverse racism complicates itself with its own title – by implying that racism toward white people is “reverse,” we’re implicating ourselves as the main perpetrators of racism. Which, yes, is what Daniels is outright stating (and I agree, he's wrong)... But playing the 'reverse racism' angle is NOT the way to go about it.

White people are not as offended as he is. And we have no right to be, because then that enters the assumption that white people must understand how he feels about the 'n' word and that, quite frankly, is pretty goddamn condescending and not true at all. We don't know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism, and we shouldn't pretend to be.

South Park put it best: We don't get it and we shouldn't pretend we understand either.

 

[effe]

Coming from the man who made the cliché-ridden Precious. Sit the fuck down. The Paperboy was really fun though. Lots of people hated it.

 

[AlexSmash]

I take it he's never seen Louis C.K.'s joke about that then.

first thing that came to my mind

 

[Wilbur]

"Do Jews like being called their derogatory word?"
I'm curious, what is this derogatory word he speaks of?

I'm curious what makes you so curious

Spoiler

kike is one isn't it? And here in the UK Tottenham fans refer to themselves as yids

 

[Ryaaan14]

This is ridiculous. The movie is straight up revenge porn, and people still complain simply because of the setting of the movie. My black friends outside of this media bubble absolutely fucking loved the movie, and a couple of them are very sensitive towards racial issues in movies, tv, and music. I simply don't see why people are blowing it out of proportions (still). I guess it's extra publicity for QT. /shrug

 

[linkboy]

If Django offends his this much, I pray to god he hasn't seen this film

 

[Dark Octave]

As a black man, I don't agree. The movie doesn't have to be made by a black man to use the word and be somewhat historically accurate in that way.

He refers to himself (and therefore me) as an African American. What a stupid label to identify yourself as.

But he's also acting like this is the first Tarantino movie to have the word in it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Slavery was an incredibly varied "institution" in the south. The vast majority of slaves would have experienced nothing resembling what goes on in this film. That is why the film isn't terribly useful as a historical piece (Slaves, afterall, were far and away the largest financial investment for the vast majority of owners). It is gratuitous cinema, nothing more. My qualm is more with Mr. Daniels trying to exclude a word from the lexicon of an entire race, which is racist.

Are you suggesting that the vast majority of slaves were never beaten, forcibly married or raped, made to work in fields all day under the threat of violence, or sold off despite their familial connections like cattle? Or are you saying that most didn't become educated hitmen?

 

[NinjaBoiX]

White people are not as offended as he is. And we have no right to be,

This is where I stopped reading.

 

[Aquamarine]

As a black man, I don't agree. The movie doesn't have to be made by a black man to use the word and be somewhat historically accurate in that way.

He refers to himself (and therefore me) as an African American. What a stupid label to identify yourself as.

But he's also acting like this is the first Tarantino movie to have the word in it.

Mmhmm. My good friend from Jamaica is considered "African-American," but she would never in her right mind refer herself as that.

The issue (for me) is not the fact that the guy doesn't like the word, it's the fact he creates a situation where "white men are forbidden from using the word...because they're white." Not in a historical piece...not with ample amounts of cultural context...just flatout forbidden. Jamaicans? Perfectly fine. British people? Nope.

And that's utterly ridiculous. That's like saying "You can't become CEO because you're a woman," or "You can't drink from this water fountain because you're black."

Context is key. Insulting a black man to his face is one thing, but using it in a historical-themed movie to make it more poignant...is something else entirely.

 

[RustyNails]

Slavery was an incredibly varied "institution" in the south. The vast majority of slaves would have experienced nothing resembling what goes on in this film. That is why the film isn't terribly useful as a historical piece (Slaves, afterall, were far and away the largest financial investment for the vast majority of owners). It is gratuitous cinema, nothing more. My qualm is more with Mr. Daniels trying to exclude a word from the lexicon of an entire race, which is racist.

Who the fuck uses or calls QT films as historical pieces? He takes some bits here and there from history and that's the end of history right there.

 

[Liamario]

First of all, nobody owns the word. Everyone can use the word however they like.

What is important to remember though, is that it's just a word. It's a group of letters. The only power it has, is that which you give it.
I appreciate that it's easy for a white person to say that and I'd agree, but it's still just a word.
The more of a deal you make of it the more powerful it is. Take the power away from it and the word quickly disappears like a lot of slurs.

I'm not saying people should necessarily go around calling each other niggers and or that would be ok to do. That's not my decision to make. I just think people should stop making a big deal when someone uses it in a non derogatory way.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

This is where I stopped reading.

 

[captmcblack]

Lee Daniels is wrong - this is a movie, set in slavery times. That word, and words like it, were used all the time. This isn't necessarily supposed to be taken like a documentary, but definitely it's fair for the word to be used by slaves and slavemasters in a movie featuring slaves and slavemasters.


That said, the overall debate on the word still isn't really open as far as I'm concerned. People know who can/should and cannot/should not say this word. If you have to think about it for even a second, you probably shouldn't say it. If your reasoning for using it has anything to do with defying conventions suggesting you can't use it, you probably shouldn't say it. If you aren't ready to fight with/be possibly seriously injured by people for using it inappropriately, you probably shouldn't say it.

It's just not for you, and you should be okay with that. If you don't agree, just say it casually and stop caring about what might happen - take responsibility for it.

 

[Liamario]

Lee Daniels is wrong - this is a movie, set in slavery times. That word, and words like it, were used all the time. This isn't necessarily supposed to be taken like a documentary, but definitely it's fair for the word to be used by slaves and slavemasters in a movie featuring slaves and slavemasters.


That said, the overall debate on the word still isn't really open as far as I'm concerned. People know who can/should and cannot/should not say this word. If you have to think about it for even a second, you probably shouldn't say it. If your reasoning for using it has anything to do with defying conventions suggesting you can't use it, you probably shouldn't say it. If you aren't ready to fight with/be possibly seriously injured by people for using it inappropriately, you probably shouldn't say it.

It's just not for you, and you should be okay with that. If you don't agree, just say it casually and stop caring about what might happen - take responsibility for it.

Either everyone can use the word or nobody can.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Either everyone can use the word or nobody can.

*ding ding ding ding!*

It's either offensive, or it isn't. This conditional use bullshit is fucking nonsense.

 

[DrAndonuts]

Who

Anyone who's seen my movie The Paperboy

Who cares

Also, "Thank God Spike Lee finally spoke up." He's been doing that ever since his movies lost their voice.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

If anybody made a movie in this era in the south , and did NOT use the word, i'd be more offended.