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[captmcblack]

*ding ding ding ding!*

It's either offensive, or it isn't. The conditional use bullshit is fucking nonsense.

Right.

And I said "go ahead and use it, and make sure you're prepared for the repercussions of its usage".

If you don't want to accept that there's some stuff not everyone should say, that's fine. Just take responsibility for it. You can't both use the word and not offend people. You can't both use the word and also not dredge up unsavory feelings caused by racial strife in American history. You just can't. If you're okay with that, then use it all you want. Nobody said you can't use it. I certainly didn't.

 

[Dead Man]

*ding ding ding ding!*

It's either offensive, or it isn't. This conditional use bullshit is fucking nonsense.

Context matters. If my pasty arse walked up to someone and called them a n* I would expect a beating. A character in a movie who is supposed to be racist should use the bloody word.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Context matters. If my pasty arse walked up to someone and called them a n* I would expect a beating. A character in a movie who is supposed to be racist should use the bloody word.

True, but your example doesn't make it any less offensive, just more expected.

Which I guess, by extension, makes it less offensive, but we're are getting into the realms of semantics here!

Edit:captmcblack, I never said I wanted to use it. I absolutely don't. You've thoroughly misinterpreted my post by the sound of it.

 

[okdakor]

White people are not as offended as he is.

Neither is the majority of black people

 

[Htown]

Either everyone can use the word or nobody can.

uh

not really

 

[grimshawish]

Reverse racism complicates itself with its own title – by implying that racism toward white people is “reverse,” we’re implicating ourselves as the main perpetrators of racism. Which, yes, is what Daniels is outright stating (and I agree, he's wrong)... But playing the 'reverse racism' angle is NOT the way to go about it.

White people are not as offended as he is. And we have no right to be, because then that enters the assumption that white people must understand how he feels about the 'n' word and that, quite frankly, is pretty goddamn condescending and not true at all. We don't know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism, and we shouldn't pretend to be.

So if he said this in a majority black country...he'd be racist?
Nope not getting it.

 

[Aquamarine]

Right.

And I said "go ahead and use it, and make sure you're prepared for the repercussions of its usage".

If you don't want to accept that there's some stuff not everyone should say, that's fine. Just take responsibility for it. You can't both use the word and not offend people. You can't both use the word and also not dredge up unsavory feelings caused by racial strife in American history. You just can't. If you're okay with that, then use it all you want. Nobody said you can't use it. I certainly didn't.

In terms of "impact," saying "Hey, nigger, how are you doing?" to a black man is kinda like saying "Hey, stupid bitch, how are you doing?" to a woman.

("Nigger" has a whole bunch more negative connotations attached to it, but that's besides the point)

The point is... it's completely out of line in a ridiculous amount of circumstances. Unless you go around calling women "stupid bitches" for no good reason, it's best to avoid that word in all every-day circumstances...limiting it to historical pieces or situations where that strong of a language is required for the story.

In fact, I don't see any reason to EVER use it in daily speech. No one likes to be called a stupid bitch.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Also, "Thank God Spike Lee finally spoke up." He's been doing that ever since his movies lost their voice.

It's also not a terribly big surprise when he has an issue with something a white person does.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

uh

not really

Oh, um, good point, well made.

:/

 

[Frostburn]

Sigh, if he is so offended by the word stop trying to "own" it and use it. If everyone who "owns" the word keeps using it things won't ever change. It's like saying the LGBT community want to own the word "Fag" or something, its an ugly word but they don't use it when talking about each other and at the same time expect OTHER people not to use it. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[captmcblack]

Edit:captmcblack, I never said I wanted to use it. I absolutely don't. You've thoroughly misinterpreted my post by the sound of it.

Nah, I didn't.

I'm not talking about specific people using the word. I'm talking about "everyone". I stated that people know who should/shouldn't use it. If people wish to ignore that, in the name of "everyone can use it or nobody can", that's fine - as long as they are prepared to take full responsibility for its usage and the repercussions therein. It can't be used without potential offense by everyone. It can't be used without dredging up uncomfortable racial tension by everyone. If that's something you can handle, then use it all you want.

@Aquamarine, really nobody does use it in an everyday casual way (at least not publically, because of the nature of the word). But people in this thread - like many other threads featuring this word and its analogs - are arguing that they should be able to say it, and that no word should be out of bounds based on "arbitrary things" like "race". So I am addressing that.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Nah, I didn't.

I'm not talking about specific people using the word. I'm talking about "everyone". I stated that people know who should/shouldn't use it. If people wish to ignore that, in the name of "everyone can use it or nobody can", that's fine - as long as they are prepared to take full responsibility for its usage and the repercussions therein. It can't be used without potential offense by everyone. It can't be used without dredging up uncomfortable racial tension by everyone. If that's something you can handle, then use it all you want.

"I didn't say you wanted to use it", proceeds to explain how I'm free to use it as I see fit.

:/

You can't decide who, and who can't use certain words. You either don't want it to be used, or you don't care that it gets used. To suggest some people are more welcome to use it than others is, quite frankly, thoroughly unfair.

It's either an acceptable term, that all colors and creeds can use, or its not, and nobody should use it. That's the way I see it anyway.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

You're not supposed to kill/rape people, but people do it in movies all the time...and it doesn't make the actors/director bad people. It's a movie. I understand getting offended by it, but if you don't like it, don't watch it...or waste your breath complaining about it, whatever floats your boat. I'm doing that right now. Freedom of expression.

 

[MisterNegative]

Neither is the majority of black people

Yeah. It's only him and spike Lee that seem to be kicking off. Besides Spike Lee kicks off to stay relevant.

 

[Dude Abides]

I wonder if people think that was out of line and inappropriate. Because I'd totally defend the use of the word there as well.

I wouldn't defend it on aesthetic grounds. It seemed forced.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Where all the black women at?

Sleeping with all dem white men!

Jokes aside, him being upset at the language used in "Django Unchained" is pretty ignorant of Spike Lee or this nobody who thinks he is a somebody. This is a movie that though is not historically accurate or is trying to be, it shows a side of the world everyone is trying to forget. QT did more justice to it than anyone else I've seen do it in the past decade. Do you expect him to tone down the language just because it offends a few people? It's the same as making a movie about Hitler and him saying "You know... the Jews are very good people. I made a mistake in doing what I did and I apologize. I hope the Americans forgive me when they read about my legacy" before dying.

 

[Htown]

"I didn't say you wanted to use it", proceeds to explain how I'm free to use it as I see fit.

:/

You can't decide who, and who can't use certain words. You either don't want it to be used, or you don't care that it gets used. To suggest some people are more welcome to use it than others is, quite frankly, thoroughly unfair.

It's either an acceptable term, that all colors and creeds can use, or its not, and nobody should use it. That's the way I see it anyway.

You're right. It's totally unfair that white people get flack for using a word that was created by white people to dehumanize black people.

Fucking sucks, bro.

 

[Dead Man]

You're right. It's totally unfair that white people get flack for using a word that was created by white people to dehumanize black people.

Fucking sucks, bro.

Well, I'm not sure that was the REASON it was created. It certainly was used for that.

 

[captmcblack]

"I didn't say you wanted to use it", proceeds to explain how I'm free to use it as I see fit.

:/

Quote where I reference NinjaBoiX specifically.
I don't care whether you do or don't want to use the word. It's not about you. It's about anyone that feels like they should be able to use it. If that includes you, fine. If it doesn't, fine.

Nobody decided anything about how it should be used - it's simply common sense. That is a word born of racial issues. It is specifically a disparaging term for a specific race/shade of people. It doesn't exist in a contextless vacuum, so unfortunately as much as your opinion is that it should be universally acceptable without issue, it isn't.

Despite that, if people (no matter who they are or what they are or whatever) are okay with the potential issues using that word, then people can use it.

If your issue is me using the word "can" as if I myself am giving permission...sorry, you probably have to deal with it because this is a messageboard and I'm just speaking English. I'm clearly not able to grant any permission for anything. There just isn't a better way of saying what I'm saying.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

You're right. It's totally unfair that white people get flack for using a word that was created by white people to dehumanize black people.

Fucking sucks, bro.

And the award for best straw man goes to...

 

[Batman]

Despite being impossible, all it would do is create a new, equally offensive word. Words are born of ideas and meaning, not the other way around.

You went too far with what I wrote, you know what I meant.

 

[Jarnet87]

"Our Word"

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

"Our Word"

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/Mitt-laughing.gif[img][/QUOTE]

Don't you know? Latin is a very old language man!!11!1!

 

[Azih]

*ding ding ding ding!*

It's either offensive, or it isn't. This conditional use bullshit is fucking nonsense.

Disagree, let's take a look a the 'B' word. That's right. Boy.

Completely inoffensive word in almost every situation, but when it's used by an older white man to address a younger black male?

Context is everything.

 

[Enzom21]

While I disagree with Lee Daniels this whole "If I can't say it, black people shouldn't say it." nonsense comes every time this is discussed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmLXZ6_PW9A Tim Wise gives a very good explanation of why the double standard exists.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Disagree, let's take a look a the 'B' word. That's right. Boy.

Completely inoffensive word in almost every situation, but when it's used by an older white man to address a younger black male?

Context is everything.

Good point. But in that instance, the word itself is fine, it's just the context that is questionable.

With the N word, it seems regardless of context, if it's a white boy saying it, it's wrong.

But yeah, I do see what you are saying.

 

[kinggroin]

I wonder if these people even watched the movie.

What do you mean, "THESE people"?

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I would really like if this word just disappeared.

I mean excluding a historical context, what purpose does this word serve in modern use besides as ammunition for teenagers on Xbox Live?

 

[Enzom21]

Good point. But in that instance, the word itself is fine, it's just the context that is questionable.

With the N word, it seems regardless of context, if it's a white boy saying it, it's wrong.

But yeah, I do see what you are saying.

What's your end goal here? You say that you don't want to say the word, but you seem upset that only black people get to use it free of consequence.

 

[-Eddman-]

I'm not from the US, so I can't comprehend the specific feelings of african americans towards the word but (feel free to mock me if the analogy is stupid) isn't this as dumb as a jewish man feeling offended about the use of historical nazi references and symbols in a movie?

It would be like: "man you can't really use that motherfucking swastika, we own that shit now".

 

[Azih]

Good point. But in that instance, the word itself is fine, it's just the context that is questionable.

With the N word, it seems regardless of context, if it's a white boy saying it, it's wrong.

But yeah, I do see what you are saying.

Heck I agree with you that Daniels is over-reacting in this case and the context of Django Unchained is far more like the use of the word in To Kill a Mockingbird. Depictions of a certain period of history should not be sanitized, period, and that's what he's asking for essentially.

But the race of a person saying the word *is* inescapably a part of the context. It's a shame but the history of the word is ugly enough to warrant it (It's one damn ugly history).

 

[Infinite]

*ding ding ding ding!*

It's either offensive, or it isn't. This conditional use bullshit is fucking nonsense.

I don't agree with Daniels but what you're saying is simply not the way language works

 

[Instigator]

Yeah, sure, white people in the movie rape and work their black slaves to death, whatever, but I find it absolutely unacceptable that they use the N word.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

What's your end goal here? You say that you don't want to say the word, but you seem upset that only black people get to use it free of consequence.

What's my end goal?

Well clearly I'm not simply contributing to an interesting discussion on a forum, I obviously have plans to streak through the streets of my home town screaming "nigger" at the top of my lungs.

But society just won't let me.



Seriously, why do I need "an end goal?" Do you have one?

 

[DarkKyo]

I have this feeling that these guys are simply jealous over Tarantino making a critically-acclaimed movie involving black history. Tarantino indeed took some risks with Django, but they obviously paid off. Even buzz like this is good buzz for it.

 

[Stinkles]

To this day I don't understand the scene where the main girl steals a bucket of fried chicken.

I have only seen the poster but I believe I understand the scene.

 

[Enzom21]

What's my end goal?

Well clearly I'm not simply contributing to an interesting discussion on a forum, I obviously have plans to streak through the streets of my home town screaming "nigger" at the top of my lungs.

But society just won't let me.



Seriously, why do I need "an end goal?" Do you have one?

Why so defensive? I never said you wanted to say it. My end goal is to find out why it upsets you that I and other blacks can say it and you can't.

 

[talisayNon]

The word has to stop being used by anybody, it should be completely erased.

.

 

[-griffy-]

My question is if a black person had made the exact same Django Unchained movie, would Lee Daniels or Spike Lee have a problem with it? Because it seems their main problem is that a white person wrote and directed this screenplay when he doesn't have an "ownership" over this language or history. Which is a kind of contradictory way of looking at filmmaking. No movies would ever get made if this was how filmmaking had to occur.

 

[BocoDragon]

I disagree with Mr Daniels' opinion.

.

 

[hypostasis]

Damnit, so when does the copyright expire -- when can us "white people" legally use the term? Twenty-five years? Fifty? One hundred?

Wait a minute, he only said we couldn't use the term; this still allows us to mention it via single or double quotation. So, we can mention 'nigger,' but not use it. Legal loopholes for the win!

"Niggers!"

Seriously though, we may reasonably stipulate certain norms of discourse surrounding terms in ordinary contexts (e.g., 'don't use obviously offensive terms if you can avoid it'), but beyond this it's an extremist's position to attempt an appropriation of words as if they are property, doling their use out to 'approved' members of some club while denying them to others. Firstly, no one is in a position to do this, and secondly, it's a bizarre and authoritarian dream.

Offended persons and communities must adjust to the organic nature of language; preferably, by not treating the relevant word(s) as offensive anymore, whatever the intentions of those using them. This is easier said than done, but I don't see any obvious alternative that can be coextensive with a high degree of free speech.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Why so defensive? I never said you wanted to say it. My end goal is to find out why it upsets you that I and other blacks can say it and you can't.

That doesn't bother me. I choose not to say it, but I couldn't care less if you do, I don't even know you.

Stupid questions like, "whats your end goal with this thread" do however.

 

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

Next people are going to try telling me Blazing Saddles isn't a historically accurate and sensitive portrayal of railway workers in the 1800's and that I should be offended.

 

[Deified Data]

"Our word". Isn't the n-word a white word, created and originally used by white people, especially during the time period in which Django takes place?

 

[Enzom21]

That doesn't bother me. I choose not to say it, but I couldn't care less if you do, I don't even know you.

Stupid questions like, "whats your end goal with this thread" do however.

Really? Because you seemed quite bothered by the fact that black people can use it free of consequence but white people can't. So I am wondering what you want to see happen here. Do you want black people to stop using it or do you want white people to be able to use it free of consequence?

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Damnit, so when does the copyright expire -- when can us "white people" legally use the term? Twenty-five years? Fifty? One hundred?

Wait a minute, he only said we couldn't use the term; this still allows us to mention it via single or double quotation. So, we can mention 'nigger' but not use it. Legal loopholes for the win!

"Niggers!"

You've gotta be kidding me.

 

[Cagey]

I have this feeling that these guys are simply jealous over Tarantino making a critically-acclaimed movie involving black history. Tarantino indeed took some risks with Django, but they obviously paid off. Even buzz like this is good buzz for it.

It's more likely that it's because of Tarantino's reputation for using the word "nigger" in his films, with the most egregious example being the scene between Tarantino's character and Jules in Pulp Fiction, a scene where the dialogue spoken by QT's character (no backstory) and the Jules response (none) didn't make sense within the context of the movie.

 

[Infinite]

Really? Because you seemed quite bothered by the fact that black people can use it free of consequence but white people can't. So I am wondering what you want to see happen here. Do you want black people to stop using it or do you want white people to be able to use it free of consequence?

I'm more perplexed that folks in this thread seem to not understand the way language works. I don't agree with Daniel but I am baffled by some of the opinions in this thread.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

uh

not really

uh yes really.

People can use whatever words they want to describe whatever situation they want in any context they want.
The choice to do so may not be popular, or pleasing to everyone, but it's still allowed.

.... or isn't this dagnamed Amurica anymore.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Really? Because you seemed quite bothered by the fact that black people can use it free of consequence but white people can't. So I am wondering what you want to see happen here. Do you want black people to stop using it or do you want white people to be able to use it free of consequence?

Hey guys, remember before this thread devolved into pathetic, baseless snipes at each other?

That was cool.