Support NeoGAF

[tafer]

this thread has run it's course..

Agreed.


Jathaine, I think you should stop trying to have a discussion about your early posts. Not only it doesn't belong to this thread, but you acknowledged that GAF isn't the place for that kind of discussions. Kudos for trying to keep it civil, but I'm afraid that it derails an already nasty thread.

 

[cicero]

Do you know what that term entails?

Namely, when it's used as a pointed word while the user is trying to play the victim.

You labeled HIM a bigot, thusly implying his arguments against you as being bigotry, and HE is playing the victim?

He gave a definitive meaning of that term, and it correctly fits the argument based on his apparent worldview. You certainly have a differing one with differing assumptions. You have provided no evidence proving that "cultural marxism" or its use inherently consists of bigotry though. Labeling it as such merely tends to shut down conversation by reducing it to a personal attack comprising of one of the worst moral type accusations one can accuse someone of today, and one that they will have to defend against instead of the issue itself.

I don't think your accusation is credible.

 

[Risette]

You labeled HIM a bigot, thusly implying his arguments against you as being bigotry, and HE is playing the victim?

He gave a definitive meaning of that term, and it correctly fits the argument based on his apparent worldview. You certainly have a differing one with differing assumptions. You have provided no evidence proving that "cultural marxism" or its use inherently consists of bigotry though. Labeling it as such merely tends to shut down conversation by reducing it to a personal attack comprising of one of the worst moral type accusations one can accuse someone of today, and one that they will have to defend against instead of the issue itself.

I don't think your accusation is credible.

This is the poster that made such great posts like:

I honestly don't believe it exists in any meaningful form for anyone except white women (who I personally view to be the most privileged group in the western world).
[...]

Controversial opinion ahead:

This might be an oversimplification of things but I think the perceptions of sexualization of men and women in video games are perceived differently due to one key factor. Sadly, I believe that factor might simply be jealousy.
Its far more commonplace for a woman to get jealous of another woman's body or have some sort of body-image issues. So of course women and people who claim to be more sensitive to women's issues will take offense to anything that may be 'harmful' to their self-image despite the fact that we tend to have sexy male characters too. This, of course, is explained away as 'male-power fantasy' (as laughable as that is.)

Its not like men don't have these issues either but to a much lesser degree, I honestly feel this has to do with the female hug-box that is feminism. I'll say it plainly; I am anti-feminist. I am not anti-fairness, simply anti-feminism because I don't believe that feminism promotes fairness between the sexes despite what the dictionary definition says.

I really hate that feminism seemingly encourages people to sit back and complain about problems rather than going out and fixing them. If every single person who had a major problem with the way female characters are designed and portrayed got together to fund and/or create games that promote positive female leads/characters/depictions rather than just armcharing it, we'd see something happen. If the market decides this is what is wanted, the sales will happen and that'll open even more doors.

Unfortunately, for the "business" of third wave feminism to stay aloat, it must convince us that women are in fact oppressed and simply do not have the agency to go out there and create. I don't buy into that. There's another thread on the subject and clearly some people do, but I actually have a bit more respect for women than to think that they can't get by in the industry as it stands now. People just have to try and we don't need things like feminism coddling them.

Using a term that bigots often fall back on in the same manner that bigots use it in was just the icing on the shit cake. My accusation is very credible.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Do you know what that term entails?

Namely, when it's used as a pointed word while the user is trying to play the victim.

From what I can tell, it would describe someone who is attacking an institution through subtle propaganda to corrupt Western culture so it is better able to realize it really wants to be Marxist.

But really, it seems like it's just a more broadly used term to label a person who is trying to change something by constructing a social idea that it is unacceptable to agree with a thing rather than actually argue against it.

In that respect, you could say that is what Jason did by, intead of criticizing the Sorceress artwork, labeling anyone who liked it a 14-year-old or pedophile. And you could say it is what you're doing by shouting "bigot" in the face of someone open to discussing their conflicting opinions.

But that's just from reading the first few results on google, so who knows?

 

[Sylvrfonic]

Deciding if a character in any medium is sexualized based on how it looks is unreliable and subject to the prejudice of the viewer. The character's agency in the context of it's setting is the only reliable way to discern if it is a sexual object.

Another sad reality is that we don't seperate sexy from sexualization. Can a character look sexy and be more than just a sexual object? Of course. But, it's up to the viewer to decide if they are going to investigate. How much are you willing to invest in what you see?

I'd argue that a feminist (singular example) that looks at a sexy character and decides that all she is good for is sex is just as guilty as a misogynist (again no generalization intended) that would do the same.

Sexy is really exciting on a character when they are powerful beyond sexualization. When the characters agency extends beyond their ability to titillate. When a character is designed to be sexy and powerful it challenges both men and women to see beyond what a character looks like. Unfortunately, we can see by this thread how well we do when we are challenged.

(As a side note, we sexualize men all the time in western culture. To me the difference is when we sexualize men we associate it with power in a positive way. When we sexualize women we associate it with a lack of power, usually. But, when we sexualize women and give them power it's usually portrayed negatively.)

 

[jdl]

cartoon boobs really bring out the worst in people

 

[cicero]

This is the poster that made such great posts like:

Using a term that bigots often fall back on in the same manner that bigots use it in was just the icing on the shit cake. My accusation is very credible.

Please reread his other post as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Feel free to call me a bigot when I prove that I am one. Until then, please keep the attacks to the minimum.
You may or may not have noticed that I am not attacking you.

You may not deserve even the slightest bit of respect for this display but I'll still continue to give you some.

Your accusation/argument is based on the guilt by association fallacy. That bigots may use "cultural marxism" as a label or insult does not inherently make that defined term bigoted or EVERYONE using it a bigot. This is just basic logic here.

 

[Jathaine]

My accusation is very credible.

No one seems to agree with you.
Also, I, who knows my viewpoints better than anyone can tell you that I'm no bigot.

I'm not certain at this point that you know what the word bigot means.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Not sure why your rebuttal would consist entirely of mocking based on what the first page of google hits consists of.

However, reading the wikipedia article might prove more enlightening, for example:

Many of the conservative attacks on "cultural Marxism" have dwelt on an alleged Jewish involvement in the current. Psychology professor Kevin B. MacDonald gives "cultural Marxism" as an example of Jews "pursuing a Jewish agenda in establishing and participating in these movements.[17][18][19]

Norwegian terrorist Anders Behring Breivik placed this critique of "cultural marxism" as a cornerstone of his ideology.

Digging a bit more, it seems that aside from extreme right, this term is used often by Holocaust denialists. Such a good and respectable company to be with.

Regardless, pizzaroll, if you said you would ignore someone, it might be best not to keep giving them reply material that they certainly do not seem to deserve.

No one seems to agree with you.

I do. I simply believe you're not even worth replying to (this post excepted so that we're clear on the matter that he's by no means alone).

 

[aeolist]

No one seems to agree with you.
Also, I, who knows my viewpoints better than anyone can tell you that I'm no bigot.

I'm not certain at this point that you know what the word bigot means.

i think a lot of people probably agree with him

look at how even the people defending this hilarious character design are trying to distance themselves from you

 

[Jathaine]

However, reading the wikipedia article might prove more enlightening, for example:


Digging a bit more, it seems that aside from extreme right, this term is used often by Holocaust denialists. Such a good and respectable company to be with.

Regardless, pizzaroll, if you said you would ignore someone, it might be best not to keep giving them reply material that they certainly do not seem to deserve.

You realize that this is still attacking me via logical fallacies, do you not?
When that's your only leverage, you may or may not be wrong... but the chances are more likely that you are wrong.

 

[Devolution]

I for one agree with pizzaroll.

 

[Jathaine]

I for one agree with pizzaroll.

Let me ask you a question (please answer honestly.) Had you ever even seen or heard of the term "Cultural Marxism" before I used it?

 

[aeolist]

Let me ask you a question (please answer honestly.) Had you ever even seen or heard of the term "Cultural Marxism" before I used it?

fox news uses it a lot

 

[not psycho]

So of course women and people who claim to be more sensitive to women's issues will take offense to anything that may be 'harmful' to their self-image despite the fact that we tend to have sexy male characters too. This, of course, is explained away as 'male-power fantasy' (as laughable as that is.)

There really is a difference though, because of the wider context.

There is a male character in the manga Fairy Tail whose schtick is that he gets naked all the time, and has a stalker female character constantly ogling him and saying how hot he is. At the same time he is a cool, powerful character and popular with both male and female fans.

Yes, it would be very silly to ignore the sexualization because he can be seen as a fantasy for men as well. The point is, it can be both. Even a male character sexualized for women can usually be considered a male fantasy as well. I would guess hardly any men are made uncomfortable by the Fairy Tail dynamic I mentioned.

So why is it different for women? I won't pretend I can come close to saying everything that could be said, but a couple things off the bat: women are far more likely to be sexually harassed, with emphasis given on how what they look like or what they are wearing is responsible. Female characters in games and media are much more likely to be used as merely sex appeal. They don't get to have the assumption of absolute safety, respect, and power (like the Fairy Tail guy) while being used for sex appeal.

It is crazy that you tried to chalk it up to jealousy, because (as mentioned in a great article posted earlier) women who fit societal standards for auto-sexiness have to deal with a lot of crap because of it.


But this is all why the targeting of Dragon's Crown is so problematic and why it makes me so uncomfortable. Why it seems so disturbingly similar to telling women what to wear to avoid harassment.

Because the women are not being used merely for sex appeal; they appear so far to be powerful and in control. And they are not all being given a "standardized" sexy representation: on the contrary, the game is an outlier in terms of design, and has a wide variety of character designs.

Really you just need to look at more of Kamitani's artwork to see that the initial (understandable!) assumptions about the sorceress were wrong. Look at all the other Vanillaware female characters, not even just from this game.

Then there is:

Which gives some context on the large breasts in particular, if that was your hang up. Notice that the other characters are not dressed or posed as "sexy" as the sorceress is. So large breasts is not just a code word (in Kamitani world) for sexy. That interpretation is up to the audience.

So many people are just seeing one image and making bad assumptions.

A mistake was made, time to move on. Not double down on trying to pretend this outlier artist typifies the industry and link him to sexual harassment, discrimination, and so on.

 

[Jathaine]

fox news uses it a lot

Good to know. I don't watch TV much but I do know about how toxic their news is.
I won't try to use it less since it is accurate terminology but now I understand a bit more where all of these false assumptions are coming from.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Please reread his other post as well.

Your accusation/argument is based on the guilt by association fallacy. That bigots may use "cultural marxism" as a label or insult does not inherently make that defined term bigoted or EVERYONE using it a bigot. This is just basic logic here.

That is true. However, if ONLY bigots use a term, basic logic also demonstrates that anyone using that term is a bigot. Obviously, proving that everyone that uses a term is a bigot is hard, but in a scale of 1 to 10, how seriously would you tend to take someone who uses a term like "the Holocaust lie"?

 

[aeolist]

Good to know. I don't watch TV much but I do know about how toxic their news is.
I won't try to use it less since it is accurate terminology but now I understand a bit more where all of these false assumptions are coming from.

nah i think it ends up being a pretty accurate red flag for people trying to engage with you

 

[Jathaine]

nah i think it ends up being a pretty accurate red flag for people trying to engage with you

Just realize as you do it that you are using a logical fallacy to come to that conclusion. I can't tell you how to think, but keep that in mind.

That is true. However, if ONLY bigots use a term, basic logic also demonstrates that anyone using that term is a bigot. Obviously, proving that everyone that uses a term is a bigot is hard, but in a scale of 1 to 10, how seriously would you tend to take someone who uses a term like "the Holocaust lie"?

Irrelevant. I never did any such thing.

 

[aeolist]

Just realize as you do it that you are using a logical fallacy to come to that conclusion. I can't tell you how to think, but keep that in mind.

don't worry, i thought you were a bigot as soon as you said that women don't like designs like this because they're jealous

 

[Metroidvania]

Pic

^There's the pic/link I was talking about earlier.

I've been spending the last 10 minutes trying to find it, lol.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

I never thought a single pair of toon tits would be the biggest video game topic of 2013.

 

[cicero]

Deciding if a character in any medium is sexualized based on how it looks is unreliable and subject to the prejudice of the viewer. The character's agency in the context of it's setting is the only reliable way to discern if it is a sexual object.

Another sad reality is that we don't seperate sexy from sexualization. Can a character look sexy and be more than just a sexual object? Of course. But, it's up to the viewer to decide if they are going to investigate. How much are you willing to invest in what you see?

I'd argue that a feminist (singular example) that looks at a sexy character and decides that all she is good for is sex is just as guilty as a misogynist (again no generalization intended) that would do the same.

Sexy is really exciting on a character when they are powerful beyond sexualization. When the characters agency extends beyond their ability to titillate. When a character is designed to be sexy and powerful it challenges both men and women to see beyond what a character looks like. Unfortunately, we can see by this thread how well we do when we are challenged.

(As a side note, we sexualize men all the time in western culture. To me the difference is when we sexualize men we associate it with power in a positive way. When we sexualize women we associate it with a lack of power, usually. But, when we sexualize women and give them power it's usually portrayed negatively.)

Again though, there may be a desire for some kind of empowered ideal of feminism, or womanhood, that is described as "sexy and powerful", but that ignores or willfully denies the entirely naturally innate biologically driven sexual response that all "sexy" portrayals are going to cause, on some level, within the larger portion of the gaming community, being male.

You want to determine sexualization solely through the supposed positive or negative depictions of power in that female character. I'd argue that for most heterosexual males, provocative dress or depictions of any "sexy" nature are going to engender a sexual response, on some level, that most feminists seem to be determined to ignore or deny that they exist, or should exist.

I believe you are ascribing female sentiments and feminist ideals to innate male sexual/emotional responses to stimuli and expecting them to conform.

 

[Jathaine]

don't worry, i thought you were a bigot as soon as you said that women don't like designs like this because they're jealous

Once again, your conclusions are malformed. If you believe that me thinking that the root cause of this issue and similar ones is jealousy means that I hate women, you're certainly not using proper logic.

Its fine to think that, but don't allow it to frame your arguments. Attack my arguments themselves, not my character.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Offering a slightly more on-topic but also controversial opinion, I don't think there is a realistic way to interpret the dwarf picture on Facebook as anything besides a gay joke. However, I don't think the joke was homophobic. Implying that someone may be gay does not imply that being gay is a bad thing. So I think the joke itself was fine. Was it in good taste? No, not really. But I don't think that joke could marginalize anyone who actually is gay.

 

[QisTopTier]

Offering a slightly more on-topic but also controversial opinion, I don't think there is a realistic way to interpret the dwarf picture on Facebook as anything besides a gay joke. However, I don't think the joke was homophobic. Implying that someone may be gay does not imply that being gay is a bad thing. So I think the joke itself was fine. Was it in good taste? No, not really. But I don't think that joke could marginalize anyone who actually is gay.

Yeah I think people like to use the word Homophobic wrong a lot of the time in sensationalist debate. Then again plenty of people use Sexist and Misogynistic wrong as well in this very thread.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I never thought a single pair of toon tits would be the biggest video game topic of 2013.

I know right? I think discussion is ok when people are respectful, because then there is a chance to exchange information/viewpoints/etc.

When people aren't though there's not much point. I think I've done a pretty good job of making sure my posts aren't rude or demeaning.

 

[Jathaine]

Offering a slightly more on-topic but also controversial opinion, I don't think there is a realistic way to interpret the dwarf picture on Facebook as anything besides a gay joke. However, I don't think the joke was homophobic. Implying that someone may be gay does not imply that being gay is a bad thing. So I think the joke itself was fine. Was it in good taste? No, not really. But I don't think that joke could marginalize anyone who actually is gay.

Hmm, that's one way to look at it... but at the same time the basic premise of the joke is "If you don't like her, you must like men." Not necessarily homophobic but I'd say its just about equally bad.
Rather insulting to anyone who isn't gay.

 

[cicero]

However, reading the wikipedia article might prove more enlightening, for example:

Digging a bit more, it seems that aside from extreme right, this term is used often by Holocaust denialists. Such a good and respectable company to be with.

So your logically fallacious guilt by association argument is in some way different than pizzaroll's, because you provided two individuals examples instead of the nothing that pizzaroll provided? Your argument is still fallacious. "Cultural marxism" had a non right-wing origin as a term, and its use is clearly not restricted to Holocaust deniers, Kevin B. MacDonald, or Anders Behring Breivik. Your attempt to associate these people with Jathaine, or his positions, is a puerile attempt to smear him by insinuation and association. "Such a good and respectable company to be with." Bravo...

 

[QisTopTier]

I know right? I think discussion is ok when people are respectful, because then there is a chance to exchange information/viewpoints/etc.

When people aren't though there's not much point. I think I've done a pretty good job of making sure my posts aren't rude or demeaning.

Yup like I said, some people here I would love to have an actual debate about the subject with. But a lot of the time the threads get thrown out of wack by extremist viewpoints mixed people that really suck at discussing a topic in a mature fashion.

Hmm, that's one way to look at it... but at the same time the basic premise of the joke is "If you don't like her, you must like men." Not necessarily homophobic but I'd say its just about equally bad.
Rather insulting to anyone who isn't gay.

It could be taken as a gay joke, but at the same time people can like looking at art like that that are straight. So grouping it up in that sense as well is insulting. Food for thought

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Another badass (imo) female character, Ryougi Shiki.

Example 2 and example 3
.

Spoilers for the movies incase anyone was planning on watching them.

 

[mullet2000]

Offering a slightly more on-topic but also controversial opinion, I don't think there is a realistic way to interpret the dwarf picture on Facebook as anything besides a gay joke. However, I don't think the joke was homophobic. Implying that someone may be gay does not imply that being gay is a bad thing. So I think the joke itself was fine. Was it in good taste? No, not really. But I don't think that joke could marginalize anyone who actually is gay.

I agree. I find it silly to reprimand someone for making a joke like that when virtually all jokes stem from making light of something from real life. We make jokes about our race, our genders, our age and all of the things that make make us different. I personally don't see what the issue is with a lighthearted joke like that. If we start saying that that is so deplorable then we might as well ban 95% of all comedy.

 

[Jathaine]

I agree. I find it silly to reprimand someone for making a joke like that when virtually all jokes stem from making light of something from real life. We make jokes about our race, our genders, our age and all of the things that make make us different. I personally don't see what the issue is with a lighthearted joke like that. If we start saying that that is so deplorable then we might as well ban 95% of all comedy.

Context. Important as ever. In this particular instance it was not initially clear that it was a light joke.
Jason attacked him directly, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that Kamitani was maybe firing back.

Its hard to say what his real intentions are, but he said it is a joke so that's one light you could look at it in, but it could also simply be damage control. You'll have people on both sides of the fence on this one just because of when and how the joke was delivered.

 

[cicero]

fox news uses it a lot

Really? I never took you for a big viewer of Fox News.

There really is a difference though, because of the wider context.

There is a male character in the manga Fairy Tail whose schtick is that he gets naked all the time, and has a stalker female character constantly ogling him and saying how hot he is. At the same time he is a cool, powerful character and popular with both male and female fans.

Yes, it would be very silly to ignore the sexualization because he can be seen as a fantasy for men as well. The point is, it can be both. Even a male character sexualized for women can usually be considered a male fantasy as well. I would guess hardly any men are made uncomfortable by the Fairy Tail dynamic I mentioned.

I would guess that the whole "harem" aspect of this manga appeals specifically to men. As does the idea of women pursuing some man they can't help praise as "hot". Since when are the majority of men even turning down sex? Flip this around and it suddenly would be considered perverted and sexist.

 

[mullet2000]

Context. Important as ever. In this particular instance it was not initially clear that it was a light joke.
Jason attacked him directly, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that Kamitani was maybe firing back.

Its hard to say what his real intentions are, but he said it is a joke so that's one light you could look at it in, but it could also simply be damage control. You'll have people on both sides of the fence on this one just because of when and how the joke was delivered.

Then I disagree with those people wholeheartedly on the context of this joke. I saw it as extremely lighthearted with little malintention from the very beginning.

Context is the reason why this isn't issue, to me.

 

[QisTopTier]

I would guess that the whole "harem" aspect of this manga appeals specifically to men. As does the idea of women pursuing some man they can't help praise as "hot". Since when are the majority of men even turning down sex? Flip this around and it suddenly would be considered perverted and sexist.

Harem aspect? In Fairy Tail? The fuck? That manga pretty much has set couples across the board.

I would go as far to say the Female characters have more male characters fawning over them.

But as pandery as the manga can be on fan service it handles the whole male female thing pretty maturely

 

[ZenTzen]

I would guess that the whole "harem" aspect of this manga appeals specifically to men. As does the idea of women pursuing some man they can't help praise as "hot". Since when are the majority of men even turning down sex? Flip this around and it suddenly would be considered perverted and sexist.

theres no harem in fairy tail, and from where did you get that idea from his response

 

[Devolution]

Harem aspect? In Fairy Tail? The fuck? That manga pretty much has set couples across the board.

I would go as far to say the Female characters have more male characters fawning over them.

He and Jathaine are just derailing the thread at this point. "Cultural marxism" and being unable to understand narrative/character deconstruction.

 

[Jathaine]

I would guess that the whole "harem" aspect of this manga appeals specifically to men. As does the idea of women pursuing some man they can't help praise as "hot". Since when are the majority of men even turning down sex? Flip this around and it suddenly would be considered perverted and sexist.

As an avid reader of the Fairy Tail manga, I can tell you that these guys are correct in that there's really not a harem aspect to it. I think a couple of the characters have more than one person attracted to them but its no major focus of the manga. Its mostly just fighting with minimal monogamous romance.
But either way, the last part of what you said is the imperative part of your post and if Fairy Tail 'were' a harem manga, that would be true.

 

[Trakdown]

Another badass (imo) female character, Ryougi Shiki.

Example 2 and example 3
.

Spoilers for the movies incase anyone was planning on watching them.

Fuck yea. Aozaki Touko too, while you're at it.

 

[Riposte]

Jathaine you should at least wait until you are a full member before stepping into this minefield of a topic. Just some friendly advice since I rather you not get (perma) banned.

Honestly sexualizing men is different from sexualizing women. You can't make 1:1 comparisons about body parts.

Yes, this is why I see trying to make equivalencies between characters/imagery of different gender based on their sex appeal misses the point.

Honestly, the conversation doesn't even need to go there 99% of the time. It comes off as just a little game people play so they can win or lose points in this eternal battle. It seems like the carriage may be before the horse in this case. The imagery should not matter in itself (whether it fits x or y template, trope), but the interpretations (i.e. the alienation, in this case) people have should. At the same time, we shouldn't assume interpretations can be universal or that people must uphold yours.

 

[cicero]

That is true. However, if ONLY bigots use a term, basic logic also demonstrates that anyone using that term is a bigot. Obviously, proving that everyone that uses a term is a bigot is hard, but in a scale of 1 to 10, how seriously would you tend to take someone who uses a term like "the Holocaust lie"?

It isn't just "hard", it is virtually impossible. Why revert back to yet another guilt by association example again though. "Obviously, proving that everyone that uses a term is a bigot is hard, but in a scale of 1 to 10, how seriously would you tend to take someone who uses a term like "the Holocaust lie"?"???

nah i think it ends up being a pretty accurate red flag for people trying to engage with you

Only if you have already applied preconceived assumptions about how EVERYONE thinks or acts that disagrees with your own positions or worldview.

don't worry, i thought you were a bigot as soon as you said that women don't like designs like this because they're jealous

Again, that statement isn't bigotry as defined by the dictionary. It is all of your assumptions reduced down to a label which you apply as an ultimate debate ender.

He and Jathaine are just derailing the thread at this point. "Cultural marxism" and being unable to understand narrative/character deconstruction.

So a mistake about a manga now equals intentional derailing of the thread? What another wonderful way of trying to stop continued voiced opposing views to your own.

 

[cicero]

theres no harem in fairy tail, and from where did you get that idea from his response

I didn't get that idea from his response. I mistakenly thought that it was a harem manga, as I remember it having been recommended to me by someone with some kind of reference to harem as a description. Clearly he was wrong, or my memory was. I apologize to everyone here, I didn't mean to upset anyone.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Fuck yea. Aozaki Touko too, while you're at it.

Done

Couldn't find an English video but I think the video alone speaks for itself.

 

[Jathaine]

Jathaine you should at least wait until you are a full member before stepping into this minefield of a topic. Just some friendly advice since I rather you not get (perma) banned.

Duly noted.

 

[ZenTzen]

I didn't get that idea from his response. I mistakenly thought that it was a harem manga, as I remember it having been recommended to me by someone with some kind of reference to harem as a description. Clearly he was wrong, or my memory was. I apologize to everyone here, I didn't mean to upset anyone.

not upset man, just curious

 

[QisTopTier]

I didn't get that idea from his response. I mistakenly thought that it was a harem manga, as I remember it having been recommended to me by someone with some kind of reference to harem as a description. Clearly he was wrong, or my memory was. I apologize to everyone here, I didn't mean to upset anyone.

Tipically people research things before using them in a debate

 

[cicero]

Tipically people research things before using them in a debate

How "Culturally marxist" of me.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Offering a slightly more on-topic but also controversial opinion, I don't think there is a realistic way to interpret the dwarf picture on Facebook as anything besides a gay joke. However, I don't think the joke was homophobic. Implying that someone may be gay does not imply that being gay is a bad thing. So I think the joke itself was fine. Was it in good taste? No, not really. But I don't think that joke could marginalize anyone who actually is gay.

Is this the same tri-dwarf image as the one posted in this thread?

What is gay about that image? They look like wrestlers.

But I agree that simply making something "gay" doesn't mean you are implying harm.

 

[Fusebox]

So a mistake about a manga now equals intentional derailing of the thread? What another wonderful way of trying to stop continued voiced opposing views to your own.

Ugh, don't play that card. Nobody is trying to stop you from voicing your opinion, they're just trying to stop you from posting a load of irrelevant bullshit over and over again, as much for your own sake as for the sake of the thread.