Zombie James
Banned
Damn, and I was going to reply to him, too. It's really difficult for me to believe that someone would rather be legally bound by a glorified corporate wish-list called an EULA than actual laws.
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Xbox One: Details on Connectivity, Licensing (24 hour check-in) and Privacy Features
- Thread starter mcfrank
- Start date
all dat bonus moneh
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Edit: Oh well, here it is for other people....
1) There are games on Steam that don't have DRM, few but there are.
2) Steam offline mode is not perfect but we can agree is MUUUUUCH less restrictive than Xbone One. It dosn't check every DAMN HOUR when you're playing. That Ubisoft level of bullshit on PC which I remember they have to stop using it because of backslash.
3) PC is an open platform. Plenty of ways to get no DRM software if you want. Is your choice, a choice you can't do in Xbone. Also being open means there's competitors to steam which result on better prices and offers. Something possible thanks to Steam giving unlimited number of codes to the publisher.
4) Finally, deals. When I buy on Steam is because I consider that the price I pay for the software is good enough to drop my ownership on the game. Is not 100% fine but is something I can accept. Having such draconian DRM that dosn't benefit the users is bad. Period.
Mr. Saturn
Member
One thing that should be pointed out for anyone who believes the xbox 1's sharing policy and steam are the same, is that steam was made in response to the shrinking retail space for PC games, correct?
Obviously console games don't have this problem and that could affect the issue.
Edit: Actually, looks like Relaxed Muscle has explained some of the differences already.
Obviously console games don't have this problem and that could affect the issue.
Edit: Actually, looks like Relaxed Muscle has explained some of the differences already.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
xbone drm
DO NOT WANT
DO NOT WANT
I think the situation was 100% different. I know PC gaming isn't that popular but people need to remember what the PC gaming market looked like in 2004 when Steam first released. There was no uniformed way to get stuff out, you had to know what you were doing to find patches and get them installed. Same with expansions and such. People were abandoning the platform left and right due to lack of sales.
It really is amazing how far Steam has come since I joined in 04. I hated it back then. It took YEARS for Valve to win over the community it has now, and they have always been considered a great trustworthy company unlike Microsoft. Steam has helped reinvegorate the PC market. The Xbox One's DRM will only hurt the console market.
#Steam
Jake Tower
Banned
So as I'm sure by now, we're all in agreement that the Xbox One's DRM policy isn't the same as Steam's, I'm really left wondering, would the people who aren't planning to buy the Xbox One or the PS4 (depending on it's DRM) change their minds if the DRM policy was exactly like Steam's?
soulassssns
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
It would be an improvement (no 24-hour check-in, unlimited installs) but the biggest difference between Steam and the XB1 is that one is an online digital-distribution only storefront and the other is retail that wants to restrict you like digital does.
I actually think they would be seeing a lot less resistance if they had simply been a digital-only system.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Steam works fine because it works in the PC enviroment and market.
Seriously I can't see working right now on the console space. As long physical stays I don't want Steam on my consoles although things like PS+ is something I can see digging for next gen.
Yeah, I think they kind of felt like they had to include a blu-ray player just to make it so that it would be the all in one box. If blu-ray failed to take off against HD DVD, I think chances would've been good that Microsoft just said screw it and made it completely digital.
Wickerbasket
Member
No, because Steam's DRM is still bullshit. I only put up with it due to all the advantages of PC gaming. I buy DRM free games when possible on PC, if they come with a Steam key its a bonus. I like being able to choose whether I buy the drm option or not; XB one won't give me any options.
It's not all candy and lollipops in PC land, but we put up with the bullshit because it has so many advantages over console gaming.
Console gaming used to have its own set of advantages, but they're slowly removing them.
Photolysis
Banned
So, anyone keeping a tally of the shills being banned yet?
SanguineShark
Member
No, not at all. I'm not going to take Steam-like DRM on a closed platform. They want to have their cake and eat it too, and they can fuck right off.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't think it's about being a BluRay player.
They needed to include retail, because at the end of the day they and publishers are still beholden to retail to move the systems themselves and the games respectively.
It's the same reason their digital storefronts are priced so terribly. And why despite constantly bitching about used games, the biggest offender GameStop gets pre-order bonuses and will be an approved trade-in partner.
It's really rather circular.
- Console owners are slow to transition to digital because they aren't incentivized in terms of price to do so by the platform holders and publishers.
- That leaves publishers beholden to their retail frenemies, so they keep digital prices high and give retail bonuses.
- So console owners continue to be slow to transition.
Moneyhats2k5
Member
That's Microsoft's excuse to have the daily online check. They don't want you to be able to go purely offline, since they lose all control of their system.
Wickerbasket
Member
It's all about their closed system.
They want you online watching their advertising, paying them for access to your Netflix account while purchasing games from their online store.
They don't want people playing offline.
timetokill
Banned
It would be hilarious if the box arts had an icon that said it was unsellable later. They'll probably need them since parents and other people are going to be furious that they suddenly can't do something they've been able to do since EVER.
You could theoretically have people playing the same copy of the game on two systems: activate on first system, then put in second system that isn't connected to the Internet. The best they could do is have you be able to designate the game as playable offline when you first activate it online.
digoutyoursoul
Member
The Xbox One is a solution to problems that don't exist not matter how many preach otherwise and invest in the machine, I just can't do it, even if I did spend a lot of money on their previous systems and games.
That's how I feel. One of the most disappointing console reveals in my 20 + years of gaming, if not the worst and I've never known such a shitty, bad vibe build up to E3 as this year
That's how I feel. One of the most disappointing console reveals in my 20 + years of gaming, if not the worst and I've never known such a shitty, bad vibe build up to E3 as this year
weekend_warrior
Banned
They could always give you the option to make it so the game is unplayable without the disk in the drive. That would make it so no online checks would ever be needed. That conflicts with their desire to control and monitor everything you do so they won;t make that an option.
Over here, I can see the EU forcing them to do exactly that.
Zombie James
Banned
Wouldn't they pretty much have to?
Roland1979
Junior Member
Well said and a bad trend. Which company will follow this greed in the future?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
You can but not in the same freedoms as before.
well, I guess it's official now. Xbone Gaming is now exactly like regular software sales - you never own anything when you spend money for gaming software - you simply buy a license to use. The disk is just a medium to carry the "bits", you don't own a thing except for the plastic and aluminum of the physical media. MS is saying they are being generous by "enabling" you to trade in your license, transferring the license to your BFF once, and 10 family members can use your license. They think this is a GREAT deal because you can't do any of that with your copy of Windows or Office, except in some family version where you can install on 3 computers. From MS' point of view, you gamers should be thanking them!
I guess they are really going forward with it. They just don't care how we feel - they changed the paradigm and we're are expected to keep up or die. Well, I am probably NOT getting an XBone just for that kind of paternalistic attitude. I really don't know why they think they can get away with pissing the core gamers this much. Even though I do like the share with 10 family thing, but I've had it with companies who think they can force you to do anything just because they have the market clout. Sony did it, and now it's MS' turn. Plus gosh that creepy always-on Kinect... oh well, good riddance Xbox. It was a good 7 years.
I guess they are really going forward with it. They just don't care how we feel - they changed the paradigm and we're are expected to keep up or die. Well, I am probably NOT getting an XBone just for that kind of paternalistic attitude. I really don't know why they think they can get away with pissing the core gamers this much. Even though I do like the share with 10 family thing, but I've had it with companies who think they can force you to do anything just because they have the market clout. Sony did it, and now it's MS' turn. Plus gosh that creepy always-on Kinect... oh well, good riddance Xbox. It was a good 7 years.
RiddleofSteel
Member
There's something else I just thought about in regards to all of this that hadn't even crossed my mind before.
If this model ends up being a success for Microsoft, how long do you think it will be before Hollywood adapts the same model with blu ray/dvd sales? They could easily adopt all of the same arguments for their media and the technology is already in place for most TV's and blu ray players.
If this model ends up being a success for Microsoft, how long do you think it will be before Hollywood adapts the same model with blu ray/dvd sales? They could easily adopt all of the same arguments for their media and the technology is already in place for most TV's and blu ray players.
Not even remotely the same. Would lead more people to piracy via computer devices.
The xbone is a closed system. Xbone games are only for it, whereas DVDs and BDs are not the same in any way. I can see a switch to purely digital being a more likely option in the future.
RiddleofSteel
Member
Xbone is closed, and it would be challenging to put in place, but if this generated a ton of income for MS, you can believe they will find a way to do it. The point being it's a bad precedent for any industry to use, and that's why it's so crucial that this falls flat on it's face. How much that would actually happen is not very encouraging.
I don't know if this question was raised earlier , but
Will I be able to sell the console itself?
There will be probably a lot people, who want to get rid of this piece of shit.
I hope it will be possible. Erase your account from it and there you go. But I guess MS could even prohibit that.
Will I be able to sell the console itself?
There will be probably a lot people, who want to get rid of this piece of shit.
I hope it will be possible. Erase your account from it and there you go. But I guess MS could even prohibit that.
Lol. Really?
Corronchilejano
Member
FSD.
H_Prestige
Banned
MS: "Hey, that console is our design. How dare you try to make money off of it you consumer scum"
No. Once you buy an Xbox One you're not allowed to get rid of it. If you don't go online for over a week a man in a black suit and dark sunglasses comes over, kicks down your door, and plugs the console into your router for you. Then as he leaves he punches you and kicks your dog.
Jesus.
I got a cat. Poor fella.
umm, it does raise an interesting question. I buy 15 XBone games. They are tied to my console and my account. i decide to sell my XBone. i delete all accounts. The games are still tied to the system, right? And anyone who ever owns that system has access to the games, right? What happens if the system is sold 15 times?
Hollywood tried it once and the public did not accept it. Read up on divx and how badly it failed. People expect to own physical media they buy plain and simple.
They can't. It'd essentially be trying to launch another format, or movies are now being sold to a split market: BD players connected to the internet out of all the ones that are not.
brandonh83
Banned
This was awkward. Today I was at a flea market and I started talking to an older guy who was selling a lot of retro stuff. He randomly mentioned that he was excited for this. It was weird because I haven't had to do a lot of explaining why all of this is terrible to a stranger, so I just politely explained why I think it's bad and went down the list of stuff. He wasn't phased and just said that he didn't think any of these things were bad and that they wouldn't apply to him.
Some people just don't care right now, but they will at the first moment of inconvenience this will cause. Things that people take for granted and have since the beginning of videogaming are about to go right out the fucking window. Kind of like that guy's business selling, you know, used stuff. Granted it was mostly old school stuff but there were a lot of current gen things he was selling as well.
Good luck, chuck.
Some people just don't care right now, but they will at the first moment of inconvenience this will cause. Things that people take for granted and have since the beginning of videogaming are about to go right out the fucking window. Kind of like that guy's business selling, you know, used stuff. Granted it was mostly old school stuff but there were a lot of current gen things he was selling as well.
Good luck, chuck.
Elaugaufein
Member
There's the other problem that discs not having online checkins but DD having online checkins would make discs less appealing. MS doesn't want to do that.
Thanks for the post! That's what I meant.
My takeaways from this:
1) I get the feeling that DRM for Xbox One will probably get worse over time. MS can change policies on a whim.
2) "Infinite power of the cloud" = eventual justification for always online for SP and MP a la Sim City.
Never have I seen a console manufacture self-immolate this badly before launch. Won't be touching this machine, and this is comine from someone who's bought all consoles the last two cycles. If Sony does the same thing they can fuck off too, I'll build a HTPC, hook it up to my HDTV, run steam big picture and use an Xbox One controller.
1) I get the feeling that DRM for Xbox One will probably get worse over time. MS can change policies on a whim.
2) "Infinite power of the cloud" = eventual justification for always online for SP and MP a la Sim City.
Never have I seen a console manufacture self-immolate this badly before launch. Won't be touching this machine, and this is comine from someone who's bought all consoles the last two cycles. If Sony does the same thing they can fuck off too, I'll build a HTPC, hook it up to my HDTV, run steam big picture and use an Xbox One controller.
What about selling "your" games along with it?
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