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[cosmicblizzard]

When I read articles like this, I worry less about the industry and more about my gaming life in Japan.

When I read the resulting comments, I worry more about the industry.

It's not only the misunderstanding of 'moe' and other Japanese references; those have been discussed at length before (and yes there are people who research it, because it makes for an interesting psychological study - not just within the world of games).

It's also the fact that we as gamers and fans and enthusiasts over-react and over-exaggerate at every possible opportunity. In this day and age of information and opinion spreading like wildfire, it's no wonder that companies (Western and Japanese alike) try to create products that appeal to a wider audience, many ending up as rough middle-tier games that no one enjoy.

When there's a surge of 'moe' games in Japan, people get upset. When there's a surge of war games in the West, other people get upset. It's just absurd. Some people act like this is all that will be left of games, and that we will all be stuck with a single genre or cultural trend forever.

People simply need to wake up and realise that the video games industry, as a whole, is still very, very young. Considering most of us writing on this message board now grew up with older games, it's much easier to see the changes taking place, but whatever happens, it almost goes without saying:

In 10 years time, if you are still playing games, you will be playing the games that you enjoy, regardless of where they were developed/published.

If right now, you think that your games are getting pervaded by a certain cultural factor (again, East or West), then you are simply playing the wrong games. Step a little outside your comfort zone, and explore what this medium has to offer, because a lot of people posting replies like "I like both JRPGs and Dudebro shooters. Go figure" - while not being too elaborate - are absolutely bang-on the money.

Quoting for new page because it needs to be said.

 

[Aaron]

Valhalla still has yet to release a game, and the other really need to sell more games to get Japan to really notice them.

From Software has always been the atypical Japanese developer, with modest budgets and reusing both engines and assets. They've been around for a long time and they've always been moderately successful. I bet the breakthrough of Demon's Souls gave them a nice boost though.

 

[Typographenia]

what does 'moe' mean? can someone explain?

As far as I can tell, it essentially is a style, genre, or focus on younger girls (think like 12 and younger). Whether or not this includes anything sexual probably varies. Also, my knowledge comes from No More Heroes. So, take that as you will.



From a personal standpoint, I have to say I've definitely noticed a decline in my own purchases of japanese games. I don't know that I was ever a huge japanese game enthusiast because I just bought what looked good. That said, I've noticed a large dip in my interest with western titles. There's just a vacancy in the overall gaming landscape that didn't seem nearly as large some years ago.

Perhaps it's more a bi-product of age, but it just feels more like the things I like no longer exist in the same capacity that they once did. They're still present, but I only get them a couple times a year (if I'm lucky) versus every month being dazzled with what is coming out.
It likely makes me sound naive to the true spectrum of wonderful games out there, but I'm not. I don't own Limbo or Flower or Bastion, but I know they're out there and thriving. I just can't deny that my overall interest (more eastern than western) has certainly changed from what it once was. Is it my own fault or just the changing of the market leaving me behind?

It also seems irresponsible to be pointing the finger at japan and saying "you guys are leaving the rest of the world out of the party since you only develop games for your local target audience" when the west's highest selling titles seem to focus around the likes of Call of Duty or Madden. It's not like this is some exclusive problem to japan that we're fortunate enough to have insight to. The west complains about not breaking through in japan, but what have we really done to broaden appeal in that market? We change the box cover of uncharted?

I know I'm not saying anything that isn't already self-evident to everyone, but it's just disappointing.



Also, my favorite game this generation has been Deadly Premonition.

 

[GorillaJu]

But it is 100% true. You can see it clearly in Anime, and it's no different in videogames. Hell, just look into Japanese Boxarts Thread. Also, finally someone that gets this:



Gaming is NOT a socially acceptable past time in Japan.

So how long have you lived in Japan? I've been working here a few years and gaming is every bit as acceptable here as it is in the states. People who don't play video games don't because they're too busy, not because there's a social stigma against it.

As far as I can tell, it essentially is a style, genre, or focus on younger girls (think like 12 and younger). Whether or not this includes anything sexual probably varies. Also, my knowledge comes from No More Heroes. So, take that as you will.

What? no. Not even close. 99% of the time "moe" characters are high school girls. Secondly, age isn't a determining factor. there isn't one particular style of 'moe' character anyway.

 

[Typographenia]

What? no. Not even close. 99% of the time "moe" characters are high school girls. Secondly, age isn't a determining factor. there isn't one particular style of 'moe' character anyway.

Travis Touchdown Sensei wouldn't lie to me! : (

 

[Kusagari]

It also seems irresponsible to be pointing the finger at japan and saying "you guys are leaving the rest of the world out of the party since you only develop games for your local target audience" when the west's highest selling titles seem to focus around the likes of Call of Duty or Madden. It's not like this is some exclusive problem to japan that we're fortunate enough to have insight to. The west complains about not breaking through in japan, but what have we really done to broaden appeal in that market? We change the box cover of uncharted?

The rest of Asia barely plays console games so Japan is basically its own singular entity. Besides Madden, the big games in the U.S. are the big games in Europe. Western devs, to be frank, have no reason to try to appeal to Japan. It's not like console games are lighting up the charts in Japan to begin with.

It might not be fair to Japanese developers, but they're the ones who have to change for that reason.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Europe is much more accepting of sexually explicit material than America is.

No they aren't. Utah is #1 on the porn buying charts followed closely by China or the other way around. Also all the good porn is from southern california.

 

[Curufinwe]

No they aren't. Utah is #1 on the porn buying charts followed closely by China or the other way around

You're confusing private consumption of porn with the general attitude towards it. Americans are far more uptight about sex than any other Western country; see the ridiculous amount of angst and actual policy changes that followed nipplegate.

 

[MrPing1000]

Remember the Janet Jackson titty?

We all thought it was funny in Europe.

You can say cunt and look at tits after 9pm, land of the free.

 

[zeelman]

[/B]

What? no. Not even close. 99% of the time "moe" characters are high school girls. Secondly, age isn't a determining factor. there isn't one particular style of 'moe' character anyway.

Yeah, moe characters are high school girls under 18. That is the style of moe.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

You're cofusing private consumption of porn with the general attitude towards it.

Im still calling bullshit till you back that up. Being more comfortable with nudity does not mean more comfortable showing off their porn collection with the neighbors

 

[Typographenia]

The rest of Asia barely plays console games so Japan is basically its own singular entity Besides Madden, the big games in the U.S. are the big games in Europe. Western devs, to be frank, have no reason to try to appeal to Japan. It's not like console games are lighting up the charts in Japan to begin with.

It might not be fair to Japanese developers, but they're the ones who have to change for that reason.

I didn't mean to seem as though I was trying to say the west is to blame for this, it's just not a self-contained issue to me.

I know japan has had a tremendous drop in console gaming, but all it takes is that special something to get you interested again. I was more or less done with handhelds until I noticed the likes of Phoenix Wright, which was totally different from anything I had played before. It reeled me back in, and I've bought far more handheld games than I ever would have imagined as a result.

Japan shouldn't be viewed as a lost cause, but more as a place to start growing an audience.

Japan definitely has lots of issues they need to work through, though. I won't ever deny that, but it's ridiculous that so many times I see them being written off with "well, there went the neighborhood. I hope they enjoy playing and making their monster hunter and DS games."

 

[B-Genius]

did I hurt your feeling or something?

STOP! Internet police!

See, the posts that have just gone back and forth between you two is a prime example of what's wrong with the industry (if anything) - not the games, but the gamers.

Canova, you are clearly bias towards the likes of Demon's Souls (a Japanese game). I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but Kalnos already said he is going to enjoy Dark Souls as well as all these big recent/upcoming Western titles. Why are you picking an argument with him over which has better combat in this thread?

Kalnos, you are in the wrong for calling Canova a fanboy. It doesn't help. *Smack on wrist*

 

[xbhaskarx]

I found the Final Fantasy Article. Here it is.

A quote:

"It's not that the dialogue's bad, though, it undoubtedly fucking is. But the entire stories are always such a muddle."

"It's Tolkien through a glass darkly and, God, if that weren't bad enough, Tolkien through a glass darkly written by computer science nerds for whom English is a third language. After Basic and C++."

lol

 

[PataHikari]

"We think handhelds are for babys why aren't they making awesome HD graphix!!!!"

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Remember the Janet Jackson titty?

We all thought it was funny in Europe.

You can say cunt and look at tits after 9pm, land of the free.

The Janet Jackson titty was on TV before 9pm so even in Europe it would have been unacceptable. And if the land was truly free, you wouldn't have to wait till 9pm

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Frankly, I think ignoring Western tastes is the best thing Japan can do... their attempts to appeal to the west have failed, and their best games tend to be fare that's uniquely Japanese. Japan just needs to keep doing their thing, and they'll eventually get back on track.

 

[zeelman]

STOP! Internet police!

See, the posts that have just gone back and forth between you two is a prime example of what's wrong with the industry (if anything) - not the games, but the gamers.

I would consider stubborn developers the other big problem with the industry.

 

[Kalnos]

Kalnos, you are in the wrong for calling Canova a fanboy. It doesn't help. *Smack on wrist*

Can you let me off with a ticket? :<

I know I probably shouldn't but based off of his posts from a long while.. well.. I called it like I saw it. I don't see how calling someone a fanboy is indicative of a larger problem in the industry, however. I agree with your point completely, actually, B-Genius. I don't discriminate against the game because of the region the game was made in, I simply play games.

 

[PataHikari]

I just find it amazing that people are shocked that, at a convention called the Tokyo Game Show, the games might, just might, be aimed at a Japanese audience.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I just find it amazing that people are shocked that, at a convention called the Tokyo Game Show, the games might, just might, be aimed at a Japanese audience.

There are plenty of Japanese games shown/announced at Gamescom and E3.

 

[GorillaJu]

By the way, "Moe" means "burning." People commonly use it to describe passion for something, not always sexual passion (though that's a pretty common usage).

It's also common in names. I have at least 20 high school students with "Moe" in their name. Moe, Moeka, Moeko, etc.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I have at least 20 high school students with "Moe" in their name. Moe, Moeka, Moeko, etc.

Are they kawaii?

 

[PataHikari]

Really, this entire article can be summed up as that the gaming media (this is an important distinction) doesn't care about handhelds, which is where the bulk of Japan has gone.

Regular people playing video games like handhelds just fine, so this is (another) case of "games journalism" forming a silly little bubble out of touch from reality.

 

[Finaika]

I just find it amazing that people are shocked that, at a convention called the Tokyo Game Show, the games might, just might, be aimed at a Japanese audience.

More specifically, the games are aimed at Tokyoites.

 

[B-Genius]

I would consider stubborn developers the other big problem with the industry.

While so-called stubborn developers would name greedy or strict publishers as the culprit.

It only gets more difficult when you have a Japanese developer and a Western publisher (or vice-versa). It's all simply a lot of balance work between "wants" and "needs" - yet another teething problem for this baby industry.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Yeah, moe characters are high school girls under 18. That is the style of moe.

Moe is ageless. There are women in their 60s that are moe in anime (and I don't mean ones that look 12 or anything).

 

[VALIS]

Remember the Janet Jackson titty?

We all thought it was funny in Europe.

So did probably 95% of Americans. Networks and advertisers fold to the slightest amount of pressure all the time. And the Janet Jackson nipplegate was a very small amount of people applying a lot of pres...

...wait, why are we talking about this?

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

time to learn Japanese

and how to hack my hardware

 

[zeelman]

Moe is ageless. There are women in their 60s that are moe in anime (and I don't mean ones that look 12 or anything).

I could sit here all day and give examples of young moe characters. Do you have specific examples of supposed older moe characters?

 

[Azar]

But there shouldn't be anything wrong with smaller studios appealing to a Niche, Atlus does it all the time and people love them for it.

This is one of the major points, though--the developers have hit this downward cycle of pandering to a smaller set of "guaranteed" fans that want a specific thing, thus stifling innovation and creativity. Even if that's what that audience wants, they're eventually going to stop playing games or get tired of those products and the audience will get even smaller.

Obviously there are exceptions to this rule and companies that will continue to thrive in the niche space, but the article hits this concept dead on. From a character and storytelling perspective, Final Fantasy XIII is probably the most egregious example of this phenomenon in recent years.

Really, this entire article can be summed up as that the gaming media (this is an important distinction) doesn't care about handhelds, which is where the bulk of Japan has gone.

Oh come on, that's complete bullshit. The article is about cultural differences, not "lol games press hates vita"

 

[mujun]

[/B]

So how long have you lived in Japan? I've been working here a few years and gaming is every bit as acceptable here as it is in the states. People who don't play video games don't because they're too busy, not because there's a social stigma against it.

Not true. Gaming is much more accepted as an adult pastime in the West than it is in Japan.

 

[Mooreberg]

I'm not sure I see the situation getting any better if Japan keeps focusing on dedicated gaming handhelds while the rest of the planet uses consoles and smartphones. Even in the instances where it seems like a third party is on the right path with console games, they go insane. Yes, that means Capcom.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

So they are xenophobic lolicon lovers that are embarassed to play once they reach adulthood. Well then...

Did they really need to make a article on what people already know?
*rolleseyes*

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I could sit here all day and give examples of young moe characters. Do you have specific examples of supposed older moe characters?

The old woman from Denpa Onna is pretty moe.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Regular people playing video games like handhelds just fine, so this is (another) case of "games journalism" forming a silly little bubble out of touch from reality.

In North America, children make up the vast majority of the dedicated handheld market. The PSP does skew older, but not a lot older.

This is an important contrast to Japan, where it is not uncommon to see adults with handhelds playing Monster Hunter and DQ. In North America you see adults with smartphones playing Angry Birds.

"Games journalists" live for hits, and what gets hits in North America are stories about console and PC games. If handheld games got them high traffic, they would focus more attention on them.

 

[TheShampion]

I actually wonder if a big part of Japanese development woes are taking inspiration from bad sources. Resident Evil and Dragon Quest came from Alone in the Dark and Wizardry (both PC games I might add).

In the end though, I think a lot of people are forgetting that a good majority of innovative Japanese games never make it to the West because it it is perceived that it wouldn't sell over here. Games like Boku no Natsuyasumi, Tomodachi Collection, 428, Idolmaster, Mother 3 and other games that could totally change people's perception of games in the West never make it over for various reasons. Sometimes I feel like Japanese games not succeeding in the West is just a self fulfilling prophesy in a bad world economy.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Bravely Default: Flying Fairy

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Another Reckoning Article. The sounds of eyes openning to a new age is deafening.

There is a good point about the 'premium' charge for niche games, and the ridiculously costly limited editions for said games. They keep making them(and keep offering risque bonuses at select retailers), so for better or worse, it's working.

I just wish they'd make more 999 and Umineko and less 'My Sister Can't Possibly Be This Cute'.

Japan games can be distinctly Japanese without being fricking creepy.

They've always existed, but have not themselves shrunk as the rest of the japanese gaming industry shrank, making them a bigger fish in a smaller pond. But yeah, more 999 (which we're getting. WHEEE!!!)

The moe thing is pretty silly (Yes, the visuals and theme wouldn't fly in the west, but even with a complete overhaul, the gameplay would still crash outside of Japan), but I do agree with xenophobia and isolationism being a real problem for game development in Japan.

And they forgot the biggest heavy hitting PC franchise that changed gaming this gen: Call of Duty.

They never had to. They got blindsided, just like on the technological front.

But that doesn't change the fact that many Japanese games shouldn't be released here. Ever. Not because they can be silly or sexual (Ar Tonelico) but because they're so behind on game mechanics, environment layout, graphics, interface clarity, controls that they're honestly a burden to play.

Meanwhile, in Japan, a middle-age dev says: "This game feels cheap," and throws down Bioshock.

Wow, never thought I'd be on GAF defending Japanese games. I'm a hater, but I think a lot of you guys aren't giving them enough credit. I love the surrealism and the color of Japanese design, and I'm even basically down with their often Byzantine gameplay structures. The only problem I really have is with characters and narrative. One could argue this is not a big deal for video games, but a lot of Japanese developers make it a big deal.

There's a still a lot of good Japanese games though. The Katamari Damacy guy makes use of surrealism that should make any Western dev jealous, and Nippon Ichi use tongue-in-cheek satirical silliness to make the most of anime storytelling. At least one developer, Platinum Games, can do both of these things at their very best.

The big difference is that Western development has become very business-savvy and scientific. It's a bunch of guys asking how they can streamline things, how they can broaden appeal, how they can pinpoint exactly what it is that keeps players coming back and then how to milk that as hard as they can. For better of for worse, Japan is not doing that...they're still just throwing a bunch of artists at a lead designer and seeing what the fuck happens.

Bullseye. Quite a number of western devs have taken to rimjobbing the playerbase incontinent after putting assets and bonus features behind paywalls, unleashing entitled gamers, inoffensive gameplay masquerading as great, and games people more eager to pay for than play. Japanese devs often got fucked by not doing something. Western devs often fucked themselves with what they did.

 

[Calcaneus]

The Janet Jackson titty was on TV before 9pm so even in Europe it would have been unacceptable. And if the land was truly free, you wouldn't have to wait till 9pm

Titty on tv all day every day. That's my platform if I ever run for president.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I don't think Idolmaster would help people's perception of Japanese games.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't know where the idea that "Japanese people are more accepting of geeky pursuits than the west" came from.

 

[Kalnos]

I don't know where the idea that Japanese people are more accepting of "geeky pursuits than the west" came from.

 

[sleepykyo]

I actually wonder if a big part of Japanese development woes are taking inspiration from bad sources. Resident Evil and Dragon Quest came from Alone in the Dark and Wizardry (both US PC games I might add).
.

Wasn't Sir-Tec Canadian?

 

[Metal Gear?!]

While Japanese arcades were blowing up in the '80s and the machines were becoming popular in America, a burgeoning home gaming market appeared on Japanese PCs. This period in the early '80s marks the only time where PC gaming was a force to consider in the Japanese gaming scene. Prior to the appearance of the Famicom in 1983, Japanese role-playing games were getting there start on these machines. Designers would liberally borrow from the Wizardry and Ultima series in their games. Wizardry in particular remains a cult favorite series in Japan, and the recent iterations of the franchise have only been released in Japan.

Boy it's a good thing this incredibly timely article was put up before anyone could even proofread it. Would be horrible if we had to wait another 10 minutes to get this essential information.

 

[RedSwirl]

In 10 years time, if you are still playing games, you will be playing the games that you enjoy, regardless of where they were developed/published.

If right now, you think that your games are getting pervaded by a certain cultural factor (again, East or West), then you are simply playing the wrong games. Step a little outside your comfort zone, and explore what this medium has to offer, because a lot of people posting replies like "I like both JRPGs and Dudebro shooters. Go figure" - while not being too elaborate - are absolutely bang-on the money.

But what if the games I enjoy stop getting localized?

It's because of this that I kinda lament how Japan ended up being treated by this industry. With nearly every other medium, most fairly successful foreign works are translated and released specifically for a core audience. Hopefully that starts happening for Japanese games, but right now it seems the opposite is happening.

 

[KuroNeeko]

By the way, "Moe" means "burning." People commonly use it to describe passion for something, not always sexual passion (though that's a pretty common usage).

It's also common in names. I have at least 20 high school students with "Moe" in their name. Moe, Moeka, Moeko, etc.

The character is different.

The "moe" you're referring to is "&#29123;&#12360;&#12427;"&#12288;which does mean burn. It's the same word that magically leads Tom Cruise to become fluent in the The Last Samurai.

The "other moe" is ”&#33804;&#12360;&#12427;" which could be translated as "budding" or "flowering." I'd wager that your students (probably all girls) are using the latter.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

i mean, look at this crap:

 

[Finaika]

i mean, look at this crap:

Why are their hands like that?

 

[TheShampion]

Wasn't Sir-Tec Canadian?

Not sure actually, edited my post to reflect that.

I suppose that that whole "Japanese people more accepting of nerdy pursuits" comes a lot from Osamu Tezuka and Dragon Quest. Osamu Tezuka was considered a national treasure in Japan and his comic books can be found in any school library around the country. It is also pretty hard to find anyone in Japan who hasn't at least heard of Dragon Quest, if not played it themselves. Though I suppose someone could argue that those aren't exactly hardcore "nerdy" over there as it is percieved in the West.

I will agree that Idolmaster would not necessarily cast Japanese games in a good light, but people accusing of Japanese devs as having absolutly no innovative ideas would have to admit that a music game based around being a manager of an idol is completely different than 99% of the games out there today.