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1Up: Why Japanese Games are Breaking Up With the West
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Oblivionmancer
Member
Really amazed by the sub-discussion in this thread about moe. Obvious conspiracy between the two apparent "sides," one saying 'it's loli' and the other saying 'no that's not what it means and I know what it means but I won't tell.' The point of this conspiracy? To annoy the everloving fuck out of me. Well done lads.
Anyhow, I guess I'm frustrated with the stagnation in game development in general, but I find the occasional bright spots in both Eastern and Western development. Final Fantasy XIII bored me to tears, but at least Square brought me Deus Ex 3 courtesy of Eidos. Weird.
Anyhow, I guess I'm frustrated with the stagnation in game development in general, but I find the occasional bright spots in both Eastern and Western development. Final Fantasy XIII bored me to tears, but at least Square brought me Deus Ex 3 courtesy of Eidos. Weird.
NullPointer
Member
It was always an open relationship and we were barely on speaking terms anyway.
FieryBalrog
Member
Wrong. Western devs did their best work on the PC, the output of the late 80s and all the 90s was fantastic and easily on par with what came out from Japan.Ether_Snake said:
I think there is a close mindedness on both sides. It's just far more strongly supported by its causes in Japan.
In my experience nothing short of a lot of coverage from Famitsu (or an equivalent) or a recommendation from a friend is about the only thing that is going to get a Japanese gamer who's never played a Western game to give one a go. Japanese people are greatly influenced by the people around them. An interesting cover, screenshots, etc is not going to sway them 99% of the time.
For Western gamers a similar bias towards Japanese games exists but it's much easier to break through. A gamer who has never tried a Japanese game is probably turned off by the stereotype they hold, young boys with crazy blue hair, underage girls with overly large boobs and fawning voices. Either that or it's indecipherable RPG stories or over the top action games with hard to figure out fiction. The difference is that they might try something out that has an interesting cover, looks good in screenshots or for whatever reason catches their interest.
Basically I think both sides are made up of majorities that are prone to ignore the games of the other it's just that it's easier for a Japanese game to get the traction required to break through that barrier. Surely that is why Japanese games do better financially in Western markets than the opposite.
In my experience nothing short of a lot of coverage from Famitsu (or an equivalent) or a recommendation from a friend is about the only thing that is going to get a Japanese gamer who's never played a Western game to give one a go. Japanese people are greatly influenced by the people around them. An interesting cover, screenshots, etc is not going to sway them 99% of the time.
For Western gamers a similar bias towards Japanese games exists but it's much easier to break through. A gamer who has never tried a Japanese game is probably turned off by the stereotype they hold, young boys with crazy blue hair, underage girls with overly large boobs and fawning voices. Either that or it's indecipherable RPG stories or over the top action games with hard to figure out fiction. The difference is that they might try something out that has an interesting cover, looks good in screenshots or for whatever reason catches their interest.
Basically I think both sides are made up of majorities that are prone to ignore the games of the other it's just that it's easier for a Japanese game to get the traction required to break through that barrier. Surely that is why Japanese games do better financially in Western markets than the opposite.
I'm one of those who don't give a shit about japanese gaming in general but all japanese games I played were fucking awesome.
MGS4
Ninja Gaiden 1-2
Siren Blood Curse
Street Fighter 4
Demon's Souls
El Shaddai (demo)
Valkiriya Chronicles (demo)
Maijin (demo)
Lost Planet 2 is the only exception I didn't like but it was very solid in visuals.
Japanese games usually have very "feel good" polished mechanics. I didn't play on consoles until this gen (Sega Mega Drive II doesn't count really) so it was the first thing I noticed when I started playing games listed above.
I want more japanese games to come out just because they're insane and good.
MGS4
Ninja Gaiden 1-2
Siren Blood Curse
Street Fighter 4
Demon's Souls
El Shaddai (demo)
Valkiriya Chronicles (demo)
Maijin (demo)
Lost Planet 2 is the only exception I didn't like but it was very solid in visuals.
Japanese games usually have very "feel good" polished mechanics. I didn't play on consoles until this gen (Sega Mega Drive II doesn't count really) so it was the first thing I noticed when I started playing games listed above.
I want more japanese games to come out just because they're insane and good.
There is an interesting thing where some Western movies are hits in Japan and some aren't, it's very similar to situation with games. If they don't find the main characters attractive or cool looking, it's much less likely to come off as a hit here, they definitely are less into movies that feature muscular guys here and movies like Jack Black also tend to not be popular. In short, tastes definitely are different but they like certain movies that tickle a certain subset of their taste buds (like anything with Johnny Depp or Bruce Willis). Red Dead Redemption and LA Noire were actually pretty popular here (maybe more than GTA), I think a lot of it is the setting and characters. Uncharted probably is on the borderline of popularity but definitely doing better than Gears of War, Resistance and Halo I think.
alr1ghtstart said:
That list is complete and utter nonsense.
Dynasty Warriors 7, PES 2010 and PES 2011 all being in the top 10?
For me personally my interest in the Japanese scene has been slowly dying over the years of this generation.
Looking back at the previous generations I was a prolific importer of Japanese games, and all my consoles were JPN imports. This generation I can count on one hand the number of games I have imported from JPN, and all my consoles are home UK versions.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Its funny because there is a subset of western gamers that hate western games too. And why wouldn't they? It's not necessarily a weeaboo thing. Like the Japanese audience, they too were raised on a diet of Japanese games. Their entire understanding of what gaming is was informed by that 20+ year console culture that began on Famicom and dominated until PS2. Western games, technically impressive though they have become, fail to check the boxes of what these gamers understand a game to be. "Where are the save points? Why would I bother with aggressive, competitive online multiplayer? Where's my opening FMV sequence with an upbeat jpop song?"
For better or for worse, though, that small generation of westerners raised on Japanese gaming is aging and being replaced by gamers raised on western games...
For better or for worse, though, that small generation of westerners raised on Japanese gaming is aging and being replaced by gamers raised on western games...
Nif said:
Guy's a nerd herder, his opinion counts for naught. We should pants him and run him up a flagpole.
But for real, I don't see much difference. Growing up there was a ton of crap Japan didn't see fit to even release over here, they seriously didn't give a shit. They would nix American releases over simple shit like translation of a word. So no, Japan wanted US dollars but they never really cared about the American market. They had their $130 NeoGeo shooters growing up, now today they have their little girl shooters for about the same amount. JRPGs probably appeal to more people than ever. I remember when kids were playing Ultima on the NES.There were probably like 200 JRPGs on the market at the time but we were playing western ones with the occasional Final Fantasy or Zelda big release. Charity really. So Japanese markets still look down on stupid Americans? Whatever.
It was nice Japan. But Eastern Europe wants to go out to dinner tomorrow, she's cute, eager, and she really puts out. Have fun with your pillowmate. (I'll still come over later.)
charlequin
Banned
ElectricBlue187 said:
Are you seriously asking someone to prove to you that Europe is less uptight and repressed about sex than America? Maybe he should prove that Florida is hotter than Wisconsin when he's done.
mujun said:
This is the cultural norm everywhere. The historical aberration here is the 20-year period where Japanese games were accepted in America and that's a direct result of videogames dying completely here and being singlehandedly revived by a Japanese company.
Once you get away from the original cause of that exception (as the people who grew up playing Japanese games get older, as Western developers have moved into the mass-market console business, and as new gamers are born who never lived through gaming in the 90s) it's not that surprising that it would start to recede back towards a more normal status quo.
FieryBalrog
Member
charlequin said:
Funny, because if you ask people from the rest of the world what is flooding/corrupting the world with sex, it's America, not Europe.
Terareflection
Member
tim.mbp said:
I loved 999, but I can see where some people might be turned off by some design choices.
You do know you see that same shit in American comics, right?
Rahxephon91
Banned
So are Americans prudes or sexual deviants? It's really hard to keep up with the stereotypes these days.
NullPointer
Member
I think the answer is yes.Rahxephon91 said:
FieryBalrog
Member
They're whatever bad thing the situation calls for.Rahxephon91 said:
cosmicblizzard said:
Is she really?This is the definition of moe?
From what I can surmise, moe is the protection instinct created by something cute. The big brother protection of the cute little girl in the penguin suit or whatever. And the there's the amount of innocence involved, are there sexual undertones, is this young person going to bloom into womanhood, etc. I think it's part of how Japanese culture manifests its worship of youth. America has Beiber and Glee, Japan has moe and superodols.
Is there some perviness lurking about? Yes. But that's the case with a lot of things. Human beings lose their innocence and start injecting their sexual thoughts into everything. Moe will be no different.
Rahxephon91
Banned
Maybe, but not have sex with her. Which is the end all goal of moe right?Finaika said:
cosmicblizzard
Banned
akira28 said:Is she really?This is the definition of moe?
She's more more there.
charlequin said:
To a degree, of course. I do, however, find that Japanese people are considerably more susceptible to the opinions of their peers/the people around them than is the case with people from Western countries. The reverse is also true, without someone suggesting something it's less likely to come up.
alexthekid
Member
Ofcourse the US is more uptight about sex. Euroope on the other hand seems to be more uptight regarding violence
sonikokaruto
Banned
MOE MEANS SEXY
the fact that they apply moe to little anime girls (lolis) just shows how fucked the otaku-es are
the fact that they apply moe to little anime girls (lolis) just shows how fucked the otaku-es are
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Only in the context of European-descended nations is the US considered prudish about sex. Americans are less uptight about it than most of the middle east and asia....alexthekid said:
Both Japanese and Western games have a problem catering to the other side, because the two cultures are completely different in what they like and dislike. This can be seen most readily with what Western and Japanese games most draw from in terms of influence. For the west, the popular games tend to ape the popular medium for the west... Hollywood movies. Meanwhile, the popular games in Japan tend to ape the popular medium for Japan... manga.
While in the early days this divide was not as noticeable due to both the west and Japan having limited specs to tell a story with requiring a person to have to fill in the gaps, this divide grew and grew as technology got better over time. Now you can easily tell a game made in the west from one made in Japan with a few notable exceptions.
While in the early days this divide was not as noticeable due to both the west and Japan having limited specs to tell a story with requiring a person to have to fill in the gaps, this divide grew and grew as technology got better over time. Now you can easily tell a game made in the west from one made in Japan with a few notable exceptions.
Some people and their false sense of persecution. People giving Japanese games a try in the west is hardly an issue. Especially considering major machines from our past included libraries whose vast majority of titles were Japanese developed.
The jocks at school that could give two shits about your favorite JRPG are not an accurate measuring stick for how the west reacts to Japanese games.
The only people that asked for Japanese devs to become "more western" were panicking Japanese publishers.
The jocks at school that could give two shits about your favorite JRPG are not an accurate measuring stick for how the west reacts to Japanese games.
The only people that asked for Japanese devs to become "more western" were panicking Japanese publishers.
airmangataosenai
Member
Yes 1up, the problem is that Japan isn't focused enough on appeasing Western audiences...... ugh.
Oh my God. This is the truest thing I have ever read. I read so much whining over miniscule things online. NeoGAF is better than most places, but it can get pretty bad here too. It's embarrassing and juvenile.B-Genius said:
Thank you. This is exactly what I did a couple years ago. I stepped out of my shell and realized there was a lot of other great stuff out there. In turn, my horizons in movies and music broadened too.B-Genius said:
There's so much good to be experienced in the video game world, but with people acting like spoiled children over petty details, well, no wonder it's still a niche hobby. Some fans - the most vocal ones - are intimidating and demanding. Chill out and enjoy life.
Red Liquorice
Member
I hate the thought of going backwards with regards to translations and Japanese releases in the west. It seemed we were getting somewhere with JP audio and subtitles in our native releases, but all this talk of a schism is disheartening.
I can see why, both sides have valid arguments, but at the end of the day, if the cross-country release of games decreases, we're the ones who lose out.
I can see why, both sides have valid arguments, but at the end of the day, if the cross-country release of games decreases, we're the ones who lose out.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
ctrayne said:
I went through this phase recently where I was really excited to get into western games. To my surprise, even with this about-face enthusiasm, I really don't care for many of the lauded examples of western development. (Assasin's Creed 2, Bioshock and Gears being examples).
Yes, some people are being "fundamentalists" to the games they liked before... but some people genuinely don't find these games to be to their taste. It's not all because they "haven't given it a try". Same goes for the Japanese public. They really might genuinely dislike what western games offer.
There are exceptions though. I dug the hell out of Portal 2 this year.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I'm all for Japanese games staying the way they are. I've played them for two decades and I'd love to play them for two more at least. I just want to make sure they keep getting translated. . . I agree with the fellow above - the only ones wanting Japanese games to be more western styled were panicked developers.
This article seems like a gigantic stew of generalization. I have a hard time believing that we can just lump what "most Japanese people" do, respond to with for hobbies, and so forth. Is it really that static?
This article seems like a gigantic stew of generalization. I have a hard time believing that we can just lump what "most Japanese people" do, respond to with for hobbies, and so forth. Is it really that static?
FINALFANTASYDOG
Member
icecream said:
Quoting again for emphasis, this should be the end of this thread. Always believe the icecream
OldJadedGamer said:The Janet Jackson titty was on TV before 9pm so even in Europe it would have been unacceptable. And if the land was truly free, you wouldn't have to wait till 9pm
In Sweden at least, you can watch a traveling program at 8pm where the male host takes a nude bath, his dong hanging out for all the world to see. Nudity is a total non-issue here.