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[DaGwaphics]

The only thing that popularity can expose when it comes to game reviewers is whether or not they are "in touch" with the market or not. It's really a gauge on the relevance of the reviewer more than anything else, but as has been said they are just people with varying tastes, players reading reviews should just be sure to keep that in mind. This shows up more with "bad" games that go on to huge success.

I'm not really all that concerned about whether or not the games I play are popular or not, but a game being very popular might make me give it a shot to begin with. I think there is also something to be said for games that can maintain high player counts for long periods of time (think GTA V), it shows that those games were really connecting with the audience.

 

[Tsaki]

Damn, Fortnite must be the best game of all time then. Need to get in on that and be amazed by the excellence in game design that probably makes Nintendo jealous

 

[AV]

The Men_in_Boxes "the only good video games are the handful of most popular ones" arc gets weirder by the thread.

 

[Doom85]

(Return after work, see the thread title change)

Seriously, what a hilarious thread.

”The Godfather is an amazing, arguably unparalleled cinematic accomplishment that will stand the test of time…..but some people don’t like long movies period. 6/10”

“This peanut butter is the best tasting peanut butter ever created by mankind…..but some people have allergies to it. 7/10”

 

[ChoosableOne]

I don't think it's a situation unique to just SF 6. I enjoy many fighting games, but after playing for a while, fighting with a random guy starts to lose its meaning(even if you constantly win). This genre has a small but dedicated fan base, and they seem to enjoy turning casual players into punching bags. This doesn't contribute positively to the situation either.

 

[yurinka]

Fighting games are niche, and that's really all there is to it. But that by no means should mean SF6 isn't deserving of its praise, especially compared to the previous game and other competitors. It's a fighting game with a plentiful campaign, and in-depth mechanics that make it simplistic yet complicated, it's great. It's been praised by many in a year of plentiful solid releases, so the fact that it's still doing well as it is says a lot. Even if it's not doing AS well as games from other genres. I feel attempting to do such a thing is unjust.

Fighting games are a niche, but with SFIV in the PS3 gen they started to grow and in the PS4 gen grew more to the point they are starting to be a big market, the genre is better than ever. So far:

Smash Bros Ultimate sold > 32 million
Mortal Kombat 11 sold >15 million
Tekken 7 sold >10 million
Dragon Ball FighterZ sold >10 million
Street Fighter V sold > 7.4 million
Guilty Gear Strive had best launch ever for any ARC Sys IP games
Street Fighter 6 had a better launch than SFV

Regarding online multiplayer, Street Fighter 6 has the biggest and most engaged (best retention) userbase ever seen in the genre for a Steam game.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Fighting games are a niche, but with SFIV in the PS3 gen they started to grow and in the PS4 gen grew more to the point they are starting to be a big market, the genre is better than ever. So far:

Smash Bros Ultimate sold > 32 million
Mortal Kombat 11 sold >15 million
Tekken 7 sold >10 million
Dragon Ball FighterZ sold >10 million
Street Fighter V sold > 7.4 million
Guilty Gear Strive had best launch ever for any ARC Sys IP games
Street Fighter 6 had a better launch than SFV

Regarding online multiplayer, Street Fighter 6 has the biggest and most engaged (best retention) userbase ever seen in the genre for a Steam game.

Oh definitely, just because it's a niche doesn't mean it's not continuing to grow and evolve. I'm so glad it is personally. Yeah, SF6 is great, especially when you compare it to what SF5 was, lol. But hey, it still sold pretty well!

 

[Elysium44]

(Return after work, see the thread title change)

Seriously, what a hilarious thread.

”The Godfather is an amazing, arguably unparalleled cinematic accomplishment that will stand the test of time…..but some people don’t like long movies period. 6/10”

“This peanut butter is the best tasting peanut butter ever created by mankind…..but some people have allergies to it. 7/10”

Godfather is extremely overrated like a lot of films conventional wisdom says are great. So your post probably unintentionally makes the OP's point well.

 

[Generic]

GaaS spoiled me, I got used to new free content. Meanwhile in fighting games you have to pay for new characters.

 

[Doom85]

Godfather is extremely overrated like a lot of films conventional wisdom says are great. So your post probably unintentionally makes the OP's point well.

 

[64bitmodels]

”The Godfather is an amazing, arguably unparalleled cinematic accomplishment that will stand the test of time…..but some people don’t like long movies period. 6/10”

Ocarina of time is the highest rated game on Metacritic and it only sold 7 million copies. Guess that means that most people don't like it then, and that it's a BAD game. 1998 reviewers are marketing tools and fake!!!

Spoiler

I like OOT, but i do think it is a teensy bit overrated and it's got a whole host of problems that would be a paragraph if i were to list them all

 

[yurinka]

Ocarina of time is the highest rated game on Metacritic and it only sold 7 million copies. Guess that means that most people don't like it then, and that it's a BAD game. 1998 reviewers are marketing tools and fake!!!

Spoiler

I like OOT, but i do think it is a teensy bit overrated and it's got a whole host of problems that would be a paragraph if i were to list them all

The MC page of Ocarina of Time is very misleading because it only has 22 reviews (several of them being Nintendo only fan outlets) while hundreds of magazines reviewed it back in the time.

If they would have get a more representative sample of the game reviews, as they do in modern games, the score would be "much" lower.

 

[SmokedMeat]

If the quality is there, the quality is there. It’s not the reviewer’s fault if the game isn’t performing well.

Fighting games aren’t as big as they were in the arcade days. That’s just how it is.

 

[Valt7786]

Don't forget Mortal Kombat 1 just came out, that would have stolen a lot of the casual player base too

 

[64bitmodels]

Don't forget Mortal Kombat 1 just came out, that would have stolen a lot of the casual player base too

It stole the casuals for a month, but then SF6 beat MK1 up and took it back

 

[BazookaBadger]

Medium punch>drive rush the video game. There are some serious problems with the online product that need fixed but won't be touched.

Doing balance updates once a year is fucking stupid and as a result you get months of stagnation of gameplay. Most of the characters have been figured out already, since this game relies on mechanics more than anything. Once you've played a ken player, you will soon realize that there are a hundred more ken players that play the same. It gets boring after a while.

Which leads to ranked play. The current ranking system is awful. There are people in higher ranks that don't deserve to be there. When I was grinding Zangief in ranked I started in silver or gold. Last month I made it to diamond. The people I played in the lower ranks were terrible. They would spam unsafe moves in neutral, rely on throws too often, dp too much, wake up super, basically doing new player shit. I take a few weeks off and come back and sure enough, those same players went from gold to diamond, doing the same shit.

You only have to win at least 45% of your matches to eventually rank up,which leads to player ranks being inflated. The amount of players that I see in diamond that whiff sweep into drive impact is absurd. Ranked needs to do a better job filtering out people like this. I was playing master ranked players doing this shit. It's like I never left gold rank.

 

[64bitmodels]

The people I played in the lower ranks were terrible. They would spam unsafe moves in neutral, rely on throws too often, dp too much, wake up super, basically doing new player shit. I take a few weeks off and come back and sure enough, those same players went from gold to diamond, doing the same shit.

Think it's more likely that the average fighting game player is bad rather than the ranking system being bad.

 

[BazookaBadger]

Think it's more likely that the average fighting game player is bad rather than the ranking system being bad.

Winning less than half of your matches should prevent you from ranking up, at least at a certain rank. Being an overall loser should reward you with nothing.

 

[64bitmodels]

Winning less than half of your matches should prevent you from ranking up, at least at a certain rank.

That's fair. I think the percentage should be increased past Silver. 70%

 

[newtypepilot]

only uses xbox numbers as comparisons when no one plays on xbox LOL

 

[Blackage]

I know the OP is trolling for the most part, but I do think SFVI's online could have used a bit of work rewarding people who engaged with it.

Right now there's ranked, casual, and battle hub, and most of the stuff Capcom has been pushing has more to do with spending money, buying a battle pass, or just logging in for a promotion for your Avatar.

You can grind ranked, but that's all there is, grinding ranked, your character(That you actually play in matches) doesn't really get anything for it, no costumes, no new color effects, no nothing, it's a very dry experience, they added in Legend rank for the top 500 and it's like who cares? 2.94 million people bought the game.

I think the game has done some fantastic things with the online experience in terms of performance, it is leaps and bounds the best fighting game to play online right now, but a rewarding fighting game it is not.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I know the OP is trolling for the most part.

Legitimately not. I'd pass a lie detector test with my eyes closed with this stuff.

 

[Danjin44]

Legitimately not. I'd pass a lie detector test with my eyes closed with this stuff.

Thats the fucked up part, I wish you were just trolling.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I think it is definitely one of the best designed fighters of all time. Nothing provides you with options in both offense and defense every millisecond like it does. However, that means it has a high mental stack and most people just don't want to be perpetually aware of that much all at once or train for it, so most people are dropping it. Nothing was greater than Virtua Fighter until this game and now for the same reasons it is somewhat unpopular like Virtua Fighter. That does not mean it is not a thing of greatness. Nobody rated how popular it would be, they rated how good it is.

Comparing a new entry of a lesser Street Fighter IV with III's revamped mechanics to a nearly forgotten franchise that has lost its way is somewhat appropriate, but strange.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Fighting games are dead. Unless you're smash bros, then you sell 30m+ copies and end up being an esport that the game maker wants to eliminate.

Counterpoint: Smash Bros. is not a fighting game but a premium-brand hipster party game that many man-children play competitively with arbitrary rules.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Thats the fucked up part, I wish you were just trolling.

This saying burns brighter and brighter the older I get. Critics say stuff. Gamers game.

I side with the common man.

 

[fallingdove]

Fighting games were super popular in the early 90s because they represented some of the best the medium had to offer at the time.

Then the industry advanced a considerable amount over the next 30 years...Street Fighter didn't...and yes, it should be dinged heavily for clinging desperately to an ancient formula that almost nobody enjoys.

Street Fighter II deserves a 92 Metascore.
Street Fighter VI doesn't.

Nah.

The formula IS Street Fighter. What are you honestly expecting? A free-to-play FPS with gacha mechanics and guest characters from the Barbie movie?

 

[Akuji]

just compared the "decline" to Tekken 7, which i thought was a fantastic game.
I enjoy tekken way more then street fighter.

But street fighter 6 numbers beat Tekken 7 easily. Tekken also declined harder the first few months.

So whats the point? Especially after the 6 Month decline tekken started to pick up pace again.
Too early to tell anything ...

 

[LazyParrot]

I side with the common man.

If you did, you'd ditch consoles and go mobile only. Candy Crush and Call of Duty Mobile have both been played by over 500 million people. Clearly no game on console or PC can compete with these masterpieces.

 

[The artful mincer]

Men in Boxes after posting this thread

A very specific portion of neogaf.

 

[Barakov]

That thread title change

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If you did, you'd ditch consoles and go mobile only. Candy Crush and Call of Duty Mobile have both been played by over 500 million people. Clearly no game on console or PC can compete with these masterpieces.

First you must learn the difference between casual mobile gaming and core console gaming.

Men in Boxes after posting this thread

Rest of neogaf

False! The poll went my way, (though the comments did not). No one actually believes I don't understand multiplayer when I am its staunchest advocate. This thread is an early Christmas present and I thank everyone who made it possible. NeoGAF is the greatest gaming community on the internet. I hope you all get something as nice as this this year, even Danjin44 ! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

 

[The artful mincer]

First you must learn the difference between casual mobile gaming and core console gaming.



False! The poll went my way, (though the comments did not). No one actually believes I don't understand multiplayer when I am its staunchest advocate. This thread is an early Christmas present and I thank everyone who made it possible. NeoGAF is the greatest gaming community on the internet. I hope you all get something as nice as this this year, even Danjin44 ! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

Come on now Men in Boxes you new the reaction you would get from SOME of neogaf

But fine I will edit my post to some of neogaf for accuracy!

 

[Neff]

Street Fighter VI, which released 6 months ago to universal acclaim (92 Metascore) has been all but deserted by players.

I play it several times a week, shit thread

 

[NT80]

First you must learn the difference between casual mobile gaming and core console gaming.



False! The poll went my way, (though the comments did not). No one actually believes I don't understand multiplayer when I am its staunchest advocate. This thread is an early Christmas present and I thank everyone who made it possible. NeoGAF is the greatest gaming community on the internet. I hope you all get something as nice as this this year, even Danjin44 ! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

What do you mean the poll went your way? Isn't the winner you don't understand MP at all?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What do you mean the poll went your way? Isn't the winner you don't understand MP at all?

No one believes that. It was the troll option created by a mod who thought it was amusing. It's like telling a 22 year old Gisele Bundchen she's ugly. I am the Gisele Bundchen of Live Service.

 

[Alexios]

No one believes that. It was the troll option created by a mod who thought it was amusing. It's like telling a 22 year old Gisele Bundchen she's ugly. I am the Gisele Bundchen of Live Service.

I believe it and the replies show most others do as well despite you being the self proclaimed whatever. Your actual poll options don't necessarily have any correlation to your points in the OP.

Nobody here likes critics with good reason but one can agree they don't understand multiplayer and still find your reasoning in the OP to be the bullshit most have pointed out it is already

You are not responding to anything said, why quote if you're just going on another unrelated rant that has no basis on reality and is another ego (self, masturbatory if you will) stroking tangent?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I believe it and the replies show most others do as well despite you being the self proclaimed whatever. Your actual poll options don't necessarily have any correlation to your points in the OP.

Nobody here likes critics with good reason but one can agree they don't understand multiplayer and still find your reasoning in the OP to be the bullshit most have pointed out it is already

The 2.8 million gamers who bought Street Fighter VI, quit after 17 mildly enjoyable hours, never to return again, deserve a voice.

Their voice matters more than the 98 Greg Millers who comprise Metacritic scores, who's job it is to sell product for large publishers.

Gamers want nutritionally dense games that can entertain for months and years. The Greg Millers of Metacritic do not. They want easily digestible, one and done games because they have a review embargo for the next game due out in 9 days.

It's time someone speaks up for the common man. I will do it.

(Someone who is adept at photoshop please replace working man with Gisele Bundchen)

I can read this guys lips. He's saying "Street Fighter VI isn't good. We don't have to listen to the same 98 people anymore."

 

[64bitmodels]

I don't get how it isn't a problem when other games are skill based but when Street Fighter is skill based it's somehow a bad, shite thing and the game is worse off for it

And i am still asking how you'd change street fighter to be "good" or some shit. You don't even talk about the game's flaws or what it does wrong. You just rip on it like you know anything.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Reminder: There is no age requirement to read Metacritic.

"Buy this awesome game!" is a front of the box slogan that game critics are using to mislead their audience.

It's a corrupt system and it should be fixed.

Not only do you not seem to understand multiplayer (or at least the variety that can live under that umbrella), the bigger problem here is you don't seem to understand the point of "criticism".

Critical scores are a snapshot of the critic's analysis of the game. The final score is not and should not indicate to people who don't like the genre that "you shouldn't buy this"... that would be completely stupid.

A film critic shouldn't give The Shining a bad review because there is somebody who hates horror movies who will watch it and be traumatized. That's idiotic, and not the purpose of the review.

Your opinion, as is often the case, is ridiculous.

 

[Danjin44]

Not only do you not seem to understand multiplayer (or at least the variety that can live under that umbrella), the bigger problem here is you don't seem to understand the point of "criticism".

Critical scores are a snapshot of the critic's analysis of the game. The final score is not and should not indicate to people who don't like the genre that "you shouldn't buy this"... that would be completely stupid.

A film critic shouldn't give The Shining a bad review because there is somebody who hates horror movies who will watch it and be traumatized. That's idiotic, and not the purpose of the review.

Your opinion, as is often the case, is ridiculous.

It’s crazy to me you have to explain such common sense to him.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Not only do you not seem to understand multiplayer (or at least the variety that can live under that umbrella), the bigger problem here is you don't seem to understand the point of "criticism".

Critical scores are a snapshot of the critic's analysis of the game. The final score is not and should not indicate to people who don't like the genre that "you shouldn't buy this"... that would be completely stupid.

A film critic shouldn't give The Shining a bad review because there is somebody who hates horror movies who will watch it and be traumatized. That's idiotic, and not the purpose of the review.

Your opinion, as is often the case, is ridiculous.

I wouldn't have a problem with your post here if critics didn't use broad effusive language to sell product.

If BF2042 and Halo Infinites horrible player retention can be a story / talking point, and a sign of poor game design, why cant SFVI poor player retention be as well?

 

[NT80]

No one believes that. It was the troll option created by a mod who thought it was amusing. It's like telling a 22 year old Gisele Bundchen she's ugly. I am the Gisele Bundchen of Live Service.

According to you nobody believes that. Is that the only way you could possibly win the poll?

 

[yurinka]

The 2.8 million gamers who bought Street Fighter VI, quit after 17 mildly enjoyable hours, never to return again, deserve a voice.

The facts say that Street Fighter 6 has the biggest active userbase of any fighting game in Steam history and that it also has the biggest retention any fighting game had there.

As a reference its Steam active userbase is 4-5x times the one of Tekken 7 and even more of MK11 and MK1, the best sellers in the genre.

And it also got a 92 metacritic, so face it: not only the game media love SF6. Its playerbase too (even if obviously there always all kind of opinions for any game), they like it/has more retention than at least more than any other fighting game ever published on Steam.

No one believes that. It was the troll option created by a mod who thought it was amusing. It's like telling a 22 year old Gisele Bundchen she's ugly. I am the Gisele Bundchen of Live Service.

If we look at the available facts we see that 22 year old Gisele Bundchen was very hot and that you are totally wrong with Street Fighter 6.

I know the OP is trolling for the most part, but I do think SFVI's online could have used a bit of work rewarding people who engaged with it.

Right now there's ranked, casual, and battle hub, and most of the stuff Capcom has been pushing has more to do with spending money, buying a battle pass, or just logging in for a promotion for your Avatar.

You can grind ranked, but that's all there is, grinding ranked, your character(That you actually play in matches) doesn't really get anything for it, no costumes, no new color effects, no nothing, it's a very dry experience, they added in Legend rank for the top 500 and it's like who cares? 2.94 million people bought the game.

I think the game has done some fantastic things with the online experience in terms of performance, it is leaps and bounds the best fighting game to play online right now, but a rewarding fighting game it is not.

The game also features a shit ton of features and options more, like the more than solid single player content and training/learning stuff plus the tournaments.

In addition to this, the execution and attention of detail in most things are best in class. I mean, the quality of the netcode, how fast you play again with people online, many options to customize your experience, how the 3D lobby is if you don't want to use the traiditional menus, etc.

And sure, it has things that can be improved or tweaked but it's just a vanilla version: they will continue tweaking, balancing, improving and expanding it for like half a dozen years. As a vanilla version it's super full featured and very well polished.

 

[Danjin44]

I wouldn't have a problem with your post here if critics didn't use broad effusive language to sell product.

If BF2042 and Halo Infinites horrible player retention can be a story / talking point, and a sign of poor game design, why cant SFVI poor player retention be as well?

In those case players had problem with actual gameplay of those games but with SFVI has great gameplay and reviewers judge the game based on those gameplay, not how popular gonna be online.

You almost have zero understanding about fighting games only shitting on it based on popularity.

 

[EruditeHobo]

I wouldn't have a problem with your post here if critics didn't use broad effusive language to sell product.

If BF2042 and Halo Infinites horrible player retention can be a story / talking point, and a sign of poor game design, why cant SFVI poor player retention be as well?

It can be a talking point, that's fine. In fact I'm willing to bet many positive reviews have such caveats, even if they aren't the focus of the review (nor should they be)... not that you'd know, because you focused this in a hugely broad way and probably only even read a few of the many positive reviews for this game.

Your suggestion that such a caveat should dictate that the game be rated a 40-something and not a 90-something, or whatever, has nothing to do with some element of a review mentioning this game/genre being mostly, especially in the long run, for hardcore gamers. But you didn't engage on those levels, and with that nuance. So while you may have a problem with my post, the reality is it is a problem that you created by suggesting such a clueless idea as "because casuals don't stick around for fighting games, this should get bad overall review scores".

That is ludicrous on its face.

What you should be saying is "people should be informed about what they purchase". Not that complicated.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

In those case players had problem with actual gameplay of those games but with SFVI has great gameplay and reviewers judge the game based on those gameplay, not how popular gonna be online.

You almost have zero understanding about fighting games only shitting on it based on popularity.

People stop playing games because they're no longer having fun with them.

Halo Infinites dramatic player drop being comparable to SFVIs means both games struggle with compelling game design.

 

[LazyParrot]

First you must learn the difference between casual mobile gaming and core console gaming.

So much for siding with the common man, lmao

 

[Tell’em Keb]

I bought the game upon release. I used to adore fighting games. It’s been a while since I really tried one out. I found it difficult to pull moves off with the quickness they require, and to keep the mechanics straight. My mistake was believing that I was willing to put in the time to become a machine because that’s what it appeared I had to be to actually compete.

For my tastes, fighting games have become too laborious.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It can be a talking point, that's fine. In fact I'm willing to bet many positive reviews have such caveats, even if they aren't the focus of the review (nor should they be)... not that you'd know, because you focused this in a hugely broad way and probably only even read a few of the many positive reviews for this game.

Your suggestion that such a caveat should dictate that the game be rated a 40-something and not a 90-something, or whatever, has nothing to do with some element of a review mentioning this game/genre being mostly, especially in the long run, for hardcore gamers. But you didn't engage on those levels, and with that nuance. So while you may have a problem with my post, the reality is it is a problem that you created by suggesting such a clueless idea as "because casuals don't stick around for fighting games, this should get bad overall review scores".

That is ludicrous on its face.

What you should be saying is "people should be informed about what they purchase". Not that complicated.

I loved your post here. Not because I agree with it, but because you've showed me you're entering the conversation with a certain degree of intelligence and sanity.

The 98 people who comprise SFVIs Metascore, do not care that the majority purchasers quit the game before getting to hour 20. They do not care that the following effect took place...

Hour 1 - 5: "Wow, this is exciting. Look at all this new stuff. Who am I going to main?

Hour 5 - 10: "Ok, it's actually pretty repetitive and I'm not having as much fun. I'll keep playing though because I paid full price for it. Maybe if I try to get good with Chun Lee..."

Hour 10 - 15: "Oh look, another AAA game is about to release. Maybe I'll come back to SFVI later."

It's not even that they don't care. It's that Capcom loves the reviewers for feeding players into the above cycle. Capcom will gladly give reviewers swag, and early access to their next game because they profit from that very cycle.

Gamers do not have that perverted conflict of interest. Gamers get home from a days work and say to themselves "I have access to dozens of games. What's going to provide me with the most enjoyment?"

That's pure. Pure is good.

I'll leave you with a quote from Rolling Stone magazine...

"Jimmy Page, around whom the Zeppelin revolves, is, admittedly, an extraordinarily proficient blues guitarist and explorer of his instrument's electronic capabilities. Unfortunately, he is also a very limited producer and a writer of weak, unimaginative songs. Plant's strained and unconvincing shouting (he may be as foppish as Rod Stewart, but he's nowhere near so exciting, especially in the higher registers)."

We have the same people telling gamers what's worth their time.