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[Bigrx1]

I've never posted a thread like this here and I'm not sure how this will go, but I just wanted to put a voice to an inner frustration/anger that has been building inside of me for the last few years and see what other people had to say. I feel if I were to post this on a lot of other social media type places I would just be called transphobic or attacked relentlessly - maybe that will happen here too I don't know. So let me start with this: I don't care if you identify as gay, straight, cis, trans, both, whatever, it doesn't bother me and I don't have a problem with it. You doing you is your choice and I"m not even going to judge it or think it's stupid or wrong, I'm not scared of it and I don't think it's wrong either. I have ZERO problem with how you identify for YOURSELF.

However, when a person, or other people, tell me I have to call someone "we" or "they" it makes ME uncomfortable. I feel like I'm being forced to play along with something that doesn't even match a general reality - the fact that it's a single person standing there. There is ONE of you, but I'm being asked to in essence lie and refer to you as multiple people. Why? Why does this person even need that to feel comfortable anyway? It comes across to me as this very pressuring thing to do to others, at least it is to me, in order to accommodate this one person that needs special accommodation. Am I also supposed to call people with multiple personality disorder "they" and "we"? What about an older person who also identifies as being young at heart? Old and young guy in one body so "we"? What about businessman who is a rapper on the side? 2 different people in one body? "they, we"?

And it's not the same as someone trans who switches to the other gender because if it's a man who switches to a woman, then calling that person her or she mentally fits in the realm of reality since it is indeed one person - albeit that one person has changed.

So, it makes me uncomfortable and I feel pressured when you (singular person) wants me to call you "they" or "we". Now what? Why does your comfort level have higher priority than mine and I have to cater to you lest I be seen as a monster. It makes me angry. And I'm sure people can find something I said here to call me a piece of shit, or be pedantic about some word choice I used and do the same, but there it is. I said it.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

It's like some hivemind shit, like the borg!

"I am not he or she, I am they or we! You shall be assimilated!"

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This doesn't sound like something a Good Person would say. You should be happy to bend over backward to make the people around you more comfortable. Don't you love them? Don't you want them to feel equal? Really, your discomfort is a sign that you are ashamed of your own bigotry. But don't worry, this ideology is here to tell you the correct words and behavior so that you avoid the discomfort this ideology has imposed upon you. Don't ask questions. Don't give voice to your own feelings (which are incorrect).

 

[JimiNutz]

Everyone feels uncomfortable.

Here's how it works:

You call them 'they' and you feel uncomfortable.

I call them 'hairy tranny' and they feel uncomfortable.

I then get arrested for my hate speach, get bummed in prison, and now I feel uncomfortable.

The dude that bummed me in prison gets a nasty rash on his balls and now he feels uncomfortable.

Basically just everyone feels uncomfortable forever.

Welcome to the new world.

 

[desertdroog]

You dont owe anyone a damn thing:

 

[Elcid]

Fuck that shit dude. I don't address singulars as plural, period.

 

[TrainedRage]

Yeah. When I went to school they taught us proper grammar. I'm not about to change my education because it may hurt someone's feelings.

If you look like a girl you're a her in my book, if you look like a boy you're a him in my book.

No one is a they.

 

[HUELEN10]

Singular they is a thing, and grammatically correct; has been for centuries in English and is getting more and more recognized.

Singular they - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Singular 'They'

Though singular 'they' is old, 'they' as a nonbinary pronoun is new—and useful

www.merriam-webster.com

A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

OED ambassador Prof Dennis Baron turns to the OED to provide a brief history of the singular 'they' - from the 14th century to present day:

public.oed.com

Be honest with me, like brutally honest: let’s say a person who didn’t give you a pronoun spiel walked in the room, talked with you, and you’re not sure of thier gender identity, but you are engaged and like what they have to say. Then they have to leave and you notice they left thier phone behind...

What goes through your mind? Remember, you’re unsure of thier gender.

Wouldn’t you default to “shit, THEY forgot THIER phone!”?

I would think most people would.

Your problem doesn’t seem to be one of grammar or relearning grammar, it seems to be one of inner conflict, justifiably or not, and that’s okay; just admit it’s not the grammar!

I’m a they, but I don’t care about it much, just call me what you want. That being said I know how it can feel being uncomfortably forced to address a person a certain way. There’s this dude I know who is a total piece of shit, Mr. DeSato, but he constantly corrects EVERYONE that it’s Rev. DeSato, which it is. I had to look in myself that the reason I jumped to Mister was that internally I wanted to diminish them, and that’s not right either. Addressing someone how they wished to be addressed is simple manners and doesn’t change your beliefs or how you feel. Now, I just tell Rev. DeSato straight up that he’s shitty.

Like, you said you don’t have a problem with people how they identify. I just don’t get why you calling a female-identifying person assigned male at birth a “she” would be cool, but meeting a “they” would rub you the wrong way.

Point is, balance. Don’t use titles or pronouns or go out of your way to not use them to diminish someone, especially if they aren’t being an ass. Singular they is not incorrect, regardless of how you may feel, and if a “they” is making you feel uncomfortable maybe your lack of acknowledgment of that is making the feeling mutual; do both of y’all a favor and walk away, both of you, knowing that neither of you has to deal with the other jerk.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Shai-Tan]

"they" isn't even unusual in English. like you would use it online if you don't know the gender of the person you're referring to

I think the worry is also kind of silly - if you're talking to someone directly there's few reasons to refer to them as anything (aside from their name if you're getting their attention). how often have you forgotten someone's name because you haven't been saying it in their presence?. it's similar for pronouns. how often are you saying "he" or "she" to someone directly? you'd have to be talking about them in the third person, like in a group and in that case "they" is a normal reference for anyone regardless of them being "nonbinary" or whatever

I should also add that I avoid the weirdness of referring to my f2m aunt as an uncle by just referring to them by their new name (shortened from their legal name). they're people like anyone else - get over it.

 

[HUELEN10]

And he don’t have to; he is still a viable option after all in their case.

 

[Nymphae]

I feel like I'm being forced to play along with something that doesn't even match a general reality

You feel that because you are. My advice in these situations is to take your ball and go home - simply do not use gendered language or pronouns when you are uncertain if the subject will take them in the spirit they are intended. I'm not jumping through ideological speech hoops to make you feel better about your condition, and there's no need to even take the risk using terms that might anger the person. Just use their name whenever possible. Save social niceties for those that don't make them a point of contention.

Yes, exactly like that actually lol.

 

[Trojita]

POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE

 

[HUELEN10]

POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE

Why the hell does that even truly mean? All I’ve seen it being stated in is the cringiest of videos.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why the hell does that even truly mean? All I’ve seen it being stated in is the cringiest of videos.

Narcissism.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

To me it’s just children screaming for attention. Holding up a sign that reads “Notice Me!!!” would be easier for everyone.

In order for me to know you want to be known as they/we/them and not he/she requires me to know who you are. I am not going to do that, because you aren’t important enough. Sorry but that’s the reality.

If I know you want to be known as they/them/we, I would know who you are. Your name/screen name. And I would just refer to you as such. So I still wouldn’t use they/them/we.

So fuck off with the notice me please cries for help

Build real connections with people via laughing/love/enjoyment and not desperate/hate/cry diaries

 

[HUELEN10]

Full disclosure, I use singular they with almost everyone because of part of that reason: of not caring enough to learn someone's life story. If I am politely updated, I won’t be an ass and will address someone more specifically, but to me they is a safe default and offers the least amount of additional care I need to use.

Which is why I don’t get the frustration of using singular they, it’s so useful.

 

[desertdroog]

Follow up, Never apologize to crybullies.

 

[lil puff]

Nothing deliberate at all, but I really don't have too many LGBTQ friends.

However, my industry has quite a few. I usually call people by their name, and if I was referring to someone else, I highly doubt I would catch any shit for saying "he" instead of "that" or "it" or whatever.

I mean can you imagine?

"Is Jerry out at lunch, do you know?"

"IT went to the park to eat, yeah"

LOL. Nah I aint too concerned about this. There are bigger matters out there.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

People are now Legion or Ermac from Mortal Kombat.

"We are many you are but one".

 

[Bigrx1]

Singular they is a thing, and grammatically correct; has been for centuries in English and is getting more and more recognized.

Be honest with me, like brutally honest: let’s say a person who didn’t give you a pronoun spiel walked in the room, talked with you, and you’re not sure of thier gender identity, but you are engaged and like what they have to say. Then they have to leave and you notice they left thier phone behind...

What goes through your mind? Remember, you’re unsure of thier gender.

Wouldn’t you default to “shit, THEY forgot THIER phone!”?

I would think most people would.

Your problem doesn’t seem to be one of grammar or relearning grammar, it seems to be one of inner conflict, justifiably or not, and that’s okay; just admit it’s not the grammar!

I’m a they, but I don’t care about it much, just call me what you want. That being said I know how it can feel being uncomfortably forced to address a person a certain way. There’s this dude I know who is a total piece of shit, Mr. DeSato, but he constantly corrects EVERYONE that it’s Rev. DeSato, which it is. I had to look in myself that the reason I jumped to Mister was that internally I wanted to diminish them, and that’s not right either. Addressing someone how they wished to be addressed is simple manners and doesn’t change your beliefs or how you feel. Now, I just tell Rev. DeSato straight up that he’s shitty.

Like, you said you don’t have a problem with people how they identify. I just don’t get why you calling a female-identifying person assigned male at birth a “she” would be cool, but meeting a “they” would rub you the wrong way.

Point is, balance. Don’t use titles or pronouns or go out of your way to not use them to diminish someone, especially if they aren’t being an ass. Singular they is not incorrect, regardless of how you may feel, and if a “they” is making you feel uncomfortable maybe your lack of acknowledgment of that is making the feeling mutual; do both of y’all a favor and walk away, both of you, knowing that neither of you has to deal with the other jerk.

I think you're being a wee bit pedantic here as singular "they" is obviously a thing and even grammatically correct in certain situations - but as a they yourself, isn't the whole point for other people to acknowledge that you see yourself as plural and refer to you as plural (identifying as both genders)? If so, which I believe is the case, that would then mean referring to you in the plural at all times, even times that don't happen to line-up with normal grammatical correctness.

Your other question I think I answered in my OP but I'll state again for clarity. What's the difference between someone wanting to be called plural pronouns and someone who transitions and wants to be called the opposite pronoun? Well, simply that, in one scenario it's a single person asking for a single pronoun and the other it's a single person asking for a plural pronoun consistently. Again, let's avoid the "well you technically can at times call someone a they and it's singular". That would defeat the purpose anyway, you want your pluralness acknowledged. Why it's a problem for me is that it makes me uncomfortable having to refer to someone who is a single human being as a plural human being in all situations. I feel like I'm being pressured to go against grammar and just reality to make you comfortable and work around your self-identity - which in turn makes me uncomfortable feeling that pressure and the backlash if I don't comply.

 

[Ar¢tos]

If someone tells me that they prefer "they", I think my only answer is "good for you".
I'll only use "you" when talking to him/her and I don't see why I would ever need to use third person if the person is there, I can use their name instead. If they are not around I'll call them whatever I want or feels natural, I'm not going to change my lifestyle to please attention whores.

 

[Shifty]

The situation enters a recursive discomfort loop that ultimately ends with each party on opposite sides of a battlefield launching artillery and epithets at one another.

It's not a pretty sight.

Why the hell does that even truly mean? All I’ve seen it being stated in is the cringiest of videos.

It's an explicit and on-the-nose way to say 'my marginalized minority privileges are more important'.

The only less subtle way to do it involves cosplaying as Yugioh.

 

[lil puff]

People are now Legion or Ermac from Mortal Kombat.

"We are many you are but one".

"You can get with This or you can get with That"

 

[haxan7]

Haxan7 here, he/him, I find this thread triggering to my anxiety. Can we please stop using gendered language to refer to each other. Thanks.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I've posted this before, but I'll post again because it is relevant :
On even numbered days, my pronouns are ⱣĬṨṤ, ⱣĬṨṤĮṈ (dat/acc/lat), ⱣĬṨṤỄꞨ (gen). On odd numbered days, my pronouns are ϜǕȻꝄ, ꞘɄČꞢȈ₦ (dat/acc/lat), ₣ỪĊƘℇḒ (gen). These pronouns must always be capitalized and shouted in verbal communication, if the speaker is standing, then the person is required to do the Carlton dance while using the pronoun.

Please respect this or I'll get you fired, kicked out of your home and hated by the whole world.
Thank you!

 

[Tesseract]

i'll do what i want

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Wow, I am surprised to see a certain someone in this thread.

 

[PSFan]

Thankfully, I live in a red state and that nonsense pretty much non-existent here.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Having encountered it so rarely in the real world this anxiety seems unfounded. A lot of "what ifs" and apocalyptic thought experiments about the subject that appear hysterical though.

 

[HUELEN10]

I think you're being a wee bit pedantic here as singular "they" is obviously a thing and even grammatically correct in certain situations - but as a they yourself, isn't the whole point for other people to acknowledge that you see yourself as plural and refer to you as plural (identifying as both genders)?

No, not at all. Not everyone who uses they pronouns or considers to be a they and not a he or a she is a plural at all. Some of course are, and these include people who may identify as bigender or two-spirit, the latter which is sizable enough in Canada to make the preferred letters abbreviation there LGBTQ2+, 2 for two-spirit.

If so, which I believe is the case, that would then mean referring to you in the plural at all times, even times that don't happen to line-up with normal grammatical correctness.

I suppose you are right in the sense that in cases like those, there can definitely be grammatical confusion.

Your other question I think I answered in my OP but I'll state again for clarity. What's the difference between someone wanting to be called plural pronouns and someone who transitions and wants to be called the opposite pronoun? Well, simply that, in one scenario it's a single person asking for a single pronoun and the other it's a single person asking for a plural pronoun consistently. Again, let's avoid the "well you technically can at times call someone a they and it's singular". That would defeat the purpose anyway, you want your pluralness acknowledged. Why it's a problem for me is that it makes me uncomfortable having to refer to someone who is a single human being as a plural human being in all situations. I feel like I'm being pressured to go against grammar and just reality to make you comfortable and work around your self-identity - which in turn makes me uncomfortable feeling that pressure and the backlash if I don't comply.

While I understand the concern, pressure, and backlash, most people that use they pronouns aren’t using the plural form, at least in the United States. I am not versed enough in breakdown of the queer populace of other nations to make that determination. I do thank you for elaborating tho, I didn’t realize until now you were thinking people that use they were all people who use plural. I understand that confusion, but again that’s definitely not the case most of the time. At least in the USA.

Having encountered it so rarely in the real world this anxiety seems unfounded. A lot of "what ifs" and apocalyptic thought experiments about the subject that appear hysterical though.

Exactly. Just... maybe don’t be assholes to each other and stop treating life so seriously maybe it will all work out? I can only speak for me, but use any pronoun with me, I don’t care, I know what I am. Like Abraham Lincoln said in Bill and Ted, Be excellent to each other and party on dudes!

 

[Winter John]

I've never met anyone who wanted to be addressed as anything other than she/him. If I ever do meet someone who asks me to address them as they, ze, zim, them or fuckin Zebbedee I will do it without a second thought. Why? Because I don't give a fuck. It makes absolutely no difference to my life how someone wants to be addressed, but if it makes a difference to theirs then I will give them that courtesy.

 

[bitbydeath]

Just call everyone cunts.

 

[jason10mm]

English has a gender neutral pronoun, it's "it". If folks think that is demeaning then they ought to reclaim and empower the word, not debase other words to fit their personal psychology.

 

[John Day]

Never happened to me. But if someone ever tells me “are you assuming my gender” i’ll tell them to fuck off.

If you feel uncomfortable that i called you he or she, just tell me so. “Hey man, i’d appreciate it if you call me he/she” and i’ll say “ok, sorry mate, really sorry, didn’t know”.

All done.

PS: ask me to call you we/they, i’ll tell you “don’t be an idiot, you ain’t plural”.

 

[MastAndo]

It depends - where do you fall in the hierarchy of victimhood?

 

[Kamina]

I would consider it if they adress me as “Milord” and bow instead of shaking my hand.

 

[haxan7]

I would consider it if they adress me as “Milord” and bow instead of shaking my hand.

This is my preferred form of address as well. I tolerate the peasants addressing me in a casual manner because they simply do not know any better.

To the OP, I think upon consideration you will find that the real issue here isn’t anyone feeling comfortable or uncomfortable with the way someone addresses them.

The problems arise with compelled speech, ie being forced by the government and the law to use someone’s preferred pronouns. This is what people who hard leftists label as racists and bigots find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to resist.

You only need to look as far as this thread to see it. There have been numerous comments here stating that they will call someone whatever they want if that person asks them to do it on an interpersonal level. There is only a problem when the government gets involved trying to force people to comply or face legal consequences - it is an overstepping of government and is the start of a slippery slope leading to tyranny.

 

[MaestroMike]

lol u gettin trolled

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

If people refuse to engage with you unless you perform to an arbitrary and subjective ruleset then they are not worth engaging with at all.

Alternatively, present your own arbitrary and subjective ruleset and demand the same performance from them as they do of you.

 

[farmerboy]

Everyone feels uncomfortable.

Here's how it works:

You call them 'they' and you feel uncomfortable.

I call them 'hairy tranny' and they feel uncomfortable.

I then get arrested for my hate speach, get bummed in prison, and now I feel uncomfortable.

The dude that bummed me in prison gets a nasty rash on his balls and now he feels uncomfortable.

Basically just everyone feels uncomfortable forever.

Welcome to the new world.

Wow, I even felt uncomfortable reading this post.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

I generally agree with the OP.
People have a moral right to identify themselves however they want, but they dont have a moral right to demand the rest of us conform to their self image.
I'll never call an individual "they" and I'll never (knowingly) call a biological man a woman. I dont want to play along and I want my words to reflect my reality.

 

[Ar¢tos]

This non cis gendered they, Ze , xis, etc pronouns bull crap only exists in the English-speaking countries where, as usual, they think English is the only language in the world.
Most languages are gendered, many are strictly gendered (no neutral), only a handful have no grammatical gender (English, Finnish, Turkish and a few others).
In many languages adjectives and even verbs must follow number and gender, and because of that any attempts of introducing a new pronoun failed instantly.
They tried that here in Portugal and it died the moment it started.
They couldn't create a new pronoun because our grammar is very strict, so they tried using @ to replace the ending of o/a words (o/a usually defines the grammatical gender) and using demonstratives as pronouns , but everyone read @ as "a" = epic fail.
Then they tried replacing o/a with "X", this created new confusions, because the letter "X" in Portuguese has 5 different sounds, depending on the letter before and the letter after it, it becomes unreadable in the middle of 2 or 3 consonants and grammar still requires adjectives and verbs to follow gender and you can't as easily use @/x on those words, so that failed too and they basically gave up and use he or she like normal people, because nobody was going to rewrite the full Portuguese language to please the ego of a dozen attention seekers.

 

[JimiNutz]

Wow, I even felt uncomfortable reading this post.

Like I said, welcome to the new world.

 

[Kagey K]

It’s a pronoun off, only one of you can win.
likely it will be taped and edited as an 8 second video on Twitter, and you life will be ruined.

All over a minor disagreement between you and another person.

 

[Tesseract]

did you really use the wrong pronoun with me?

i'm gonna get you fired and ruin your marriage and get your child hooked on clown pills

 

[Punished Miku]

Yeah. When I went to school they taught us proper grammar. I'm not about to change my education because it may hurt someone's feelings.

If you look like a girl you're a her in my book, I'd you look like a boy you're a him in my book.

No one is a they.

As a fellow grammar nazi, I respect this position so much.

 

[The Cockatrice]

They is nuts.

 

[HarryKS]

What if I'm Legion? Whatcha gonna call me then, BITCH.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

What if I'm Legion? Whatcha gonna call me then, BITCH.

Ruh-roh.