STARSBarry
Gold Member
You forgot Aloys face compared to the first game, that also suffered from overbloat.
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Aloy is the single biggest problem with the Horizon franchise to me
- Thread starter Drizzlehell
- Start date
You forgot Aloys face compared to the first game, that also suffered from overbloat.
Ocean Dweller
Member
shes fine. just the VO is too soft
Tomeru
Member
Can you give us a hint? Common, give us a hint!
GymWolf
Member
I'm not holding anything against you dude, but it's not just the op, everyone who hate her fail to mention her growing into a better character, like i said, people just like to hate her, it has nothing to do with what part of the game you pick.
Not sure why you think that i'm mad at you (because i'm not)
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
I would argue that Amicia in Requem is far more developed and way better written as a character than Aloy in general and when it comes to emotional aspects. Aloy is just not that interesting as a character on emotional level, she's very antisocial, don't need anyone around her, don't care about what characters close to her think, don't need their help in anything and always trying to be distant from them, not to get emotional attached or even (god forbid) more intimate with them.
I know that there's reasons for how she's behaving or at least it is how she was written and invisioned, but it doesn't mean that I should like it. Imotionally dead characters is not my cup of tea and I can't relate to them much if at all.
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GymWolf
Member
I heard that amicia and little dude are kinda unsefferable in the sequel, i still have to play that one.
Also, amicia is not trying to save the fucking world, such a "small" difference...
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Low Moral Fibre
Member
So many recent games have insufferable main characters, bad voice acting or constant monologuing about nonesense like the audience can't be trusted other than to be told exactly what to think.
Of the stuff I've played in the last few years there's Horizon 1 + 2, Plagues Tale 1 + 2, Days Gone, God of War & Atomic Heart (the worst by far).
Maybe I'm boring but I prefer Commander Generic McGenericson in Mass Effect.
Of the stuff I've played in the last few years there's Horizon 1 + 2, Plagues Tale 1 + 2, Days Gone, God of War & Atomic Heart (the worst by far).
Maybe I'm boring but I prefer Commander Generic McGenericson in Mass Effect.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The problem is that framing the entire narrative as some sort of urgent race to get to the end before the world ends is ultimately a dumb idea in an open world game. Majority of flaws of Aloy as a character in forbidden west are rooted in that she has to pretend the world is about to end and only she can save it.
GymWolf
Member
She has to pretend?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I mean that she needs to be written in a way that is coherent with this world ending urgency.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
You heard wrong. But you need to play the game to the end, cuz what they're doing through out the course of the story in terms of Amicia story arc can only be understood by finishing the game. It's one hell of an emotional rollercoaster and Guerrilla have much to learn from them.
Actually, she is, there's far greater stakes for her personally on emotional level, she's much younger and it's not over yet.
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GymWolf
Member
She is trying to save his brother and killing thousands of innocent people in the mean time, this is what i heard from many people.
First game was not about saving the world neither.
But sure, i'm gonna play the game sooner or later.
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The Cockatrice
Gold Member
I've defended her in all the threads. Too tired to do it again, people are just too dumb to get why she changed over the course of the game, why shes colder. Pretty sure anyone who says so prolly skipped all dialogues, or didnt play the game. Anyway, goty 2022. Excited for the final part.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
More like millions, but at the same time it's much more than that. I won't spoil, just play the game and see for yourself.
It was, but on a more grounded level... can't say much more than that. A Plague Tale games also strongly connected in terms of story and character arcs, so Idealy you need to play both games (if you haven't played Innocence).
Requiem also much better game than Innocence in terms of QOL changes, gameplay and things you can do in combat or stealth etc., but they still need to work on all this and they're doing it rignt now as we speak for the next game.
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Azurro
Banned
Sylenc is very memorable, but he's not really a villain, more like a good chaotic kinda guy. I remember playing through FW and Alloy is just completely unbearable in the first half of the game. She's rude, entitled, selfish, she even borrowed Nikocado Avocado's fat cheeks and yet every single character is falling at her feet and telling her how amazing she is, how hot she is, how brave she is, it's incredibly obnoxious.
She even finds a clone of herself obnoxious because she is not as perfect as she is. Even the main villain's motivation for betraying her allies is to get with her, and then she gets angry because Alloy doesn't get with her and let her have her technojungle lesbian relationship
Thankfully the mechanics are solid, the animals are fun to fight and it's really pretty, so it helps to forget how stupid the writing is in this game.
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GymWolf
Member
Dude i played the first game, the whole story was about saving the little dude, killing the last villain maybe saved a lot of people but it was hardly a quest to save the entire planet from extictions.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Look, these game are very strongly connected narratively, the first game was a lead up to a much more serious threat in the sequel and on a much grander scale. You can't see the full picture without playing and finishing the second game and believe me when I say, that there's some very terrifying shit going on there none of the people (let alone a young girl and her even younger brother) at that time (and more importantly even before) was ready to deal with, let alone once and for all. I can't say how much a was impressed seeing what they did narratively in Requiem and it's just can't be compared to Innocence cuz it's on a whole other level you only expect from studios like Naughty Dog.
Think of it what you will for now, but that's all I'm gonna say.
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Madserb2023
Member
The characters in their entirety are the biggest problem. Don't find any of them interesting. The robots have more personality. Killzone had the same problem. I just couldn't bring myself to talk to the companions in Forbidden West. They tried to make it like Mass Effect 2 but it couldn't be more different.
Drizzlehell
Banned
I'm sure that with a magnetic personality such as yours, you managed to build a pretty good case for Aloy and everyone got swept away by your charismatic debating style.
Drizzlehell
Banned
I see you arguing once again that just because Aloy has a bigger fish to fry then it somehow makes her struggle bigerer and more importanter than characters in other games or movies whose stories are more scaled back.
That's not how dramatic storytelling works. That's not even how human emotions work. Just because there's only one life at stake doesn't mean that the emotional investment of the main character is somehow diminished. To them, that one person IS the world, and if you write those characters in a way that the audience will care for them and identify with them, they're gonna be just as invested in saving that one person.
For all the epic, world-ending stakes that Aloy has to contend with, the writers still didn't manage to make me give a shit about any of it, and therein lies their failure.
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GymWolf
Member
The fact that it's a failure for you, doesn't mean that it's a failure for everyone tho.
There is more than one way to tell a story about saving the world, you can have a light hearted protagonist that jokes with everyone or you can have a stoic one that is super focused on her mission.
And like some other people said, she change a lot during the second game, but you people fail to see or recognize her growing into a more kind less asshole character.
The Cockatrice
Gold Member
Drizzlehell
Banned
Wow, sounds like a riveting development for her. I just can't wait to be playing as this insufferable asshole again in the future!
GymWolf
Member
I'm happy that i finally changed your mind
Drizzlehell
Banned
I'm happy that i finally changed your mind
GymWolf
Member
The name is Gym, not jan
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LaughingStock
Member
I would have made her an enhanced human with super human strengh and agility to justify the shit she can do.
Also would've made her personality more savage and tribalistic.
Also would've made her personality more savage and tribalistic.
Humdinger
Member
I didn't mean you were "mad" at me. I don't think that. But you did sound frustrated that I was saying something beyond what the OP did -- or beyond what other people in the thread have mentioned. I was thinking, "Isn't that the point of a discussion? To bring up new, interesting points, rather than just keep repeating the same ideas?" I agree that I was saying something most other people had not mentioned (a few others alluded to it). But I didn't see why that should count against what I was saying. I mean, that's why I was saying it in the first place -- because others were not mentioning it. And it's relevant, because it runs counter to the idea that Aloy is the same in both games. She is clearly not.
I agree with you that many people have disliked Aloy from the start. They disliked her in the first game, and they disliked her in the second. How many of them are in this thread? Probably a lot. The OP gives them a chance to vent.
I don't give any credence to those people. You can pretty much tell who they are, because there is zero thought or effort behind their posts. They just come into the thread to spew a derisive one-liner, then leave. I doubt many of them have even played the sequel or paid much attention to the first game.
I'm different. I'm a fan of the game. I've played HZD through at least three times. It was my GOTG, and I still go back to it. I played HFW twice all the way through. I've probably put 500+ hours into the series. That doesn't count all the hours I've spent reading forum posts and feedback about it. I'm not saying I have a PhD in Horizon studies, but I know the franchise pretty well. I'm talking to people who have played enough of both games to understand what I'm getting at. People who haven't just won't get it, and that's fine.
To beat the dead horse one more time, Aloy goes through a very clear character arc in the second game. She goes from bitchy loner at the start to someone who fully embraces the power of friendship/allies by the end. She's actually only a bitchy loner for the first quarter of the game. After that, she warms up, learns her lesson, and gets back to normal. Unfortunately, first impressions are lasting, and the first impression that Aloy gives off in HFW is bitchy loner.
That is the source of a lot of fans' disappointment in the sequel (well, it's one source; there are others). The writers deliberately monkeyed with Aloy's character, refashioning her into a bitchy loner for the start of the second game, in order to put her through this artificial character arc. As you know, it's an old maxim in storytelling that your main character should go through some kind of growth during the story -- learn something about themselves, learn a lesson, etc. Since the writers had already taken Aloy through a very complete character arc in the first game (talk about learning something about yourself!), they were at a bit of a loss. In order to put her through a new character arc, they refashioned her as a bitchy loner at the beginning.
The problem with this was, Aloy was not a bitchy loner in the first game. I challenge people to find any examples of the bitchy loner stuff in the first game. They just aren't there. The only time she is bitchy is in response to people who are being assholes to her (e.g., Sylens or the guy at the lodge). Whereas in the second game, she's a bitchy loner to former allies and friends, people who fought alongside her. That's a big character change. In the first game, she does not reject help from potential allies -- she is happy to get it, and she clearly understands the power of having allies (partly because she has so few). The writers decided to rejigger her character in the second game, turning her into a bitchy loner (at least for the first quarter of the game). That is what a lot of fans (not the casual bypassers we talked about above, but fans) were reacting to.
Ok, I've rattled on long enough about this, lol. Take care.
GymWolf
Member
I was not going against you or what you said buddy, the first horizon was also my game of the gen and i'm a super fan of the brand aswell (even if fw let me down a bit).
If you like the lore of horizon, you want to check the "random side quest" channel on yt, dude has a truckloads of well made video about the world, machines, obscure bit of story etc.
Azurro
Banned
You attack your perception of the characters of other people, yet you treat your perception as if it is more enlightened, when you are simply wrong.
She does not go from an unlikeable, entitled asshole character to a likeable one, she's just a bit less unlikeable. There are no palpable consequences to Girl Jesus, no event where shit hits the fan and where she could have easily won if she had her friends with her, or something similar. If she gets punished for her bad behaviour, the audience gets a catharsis from it and she gets a chance to redeem herself.
That does not happen, instead, all she does is graciously accept help from her friends, with no specific reason why. She's just stoic with no emotional depth, she just literally asks her past self what she would have done. She can do no wrong and the only person she seeks counsel from, is herself. The team needs better writters, the "girl bosses" are incredibly obnoxious.
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GymWolf
Member
I never said that she grow into a great character, just a better one from when she start, just in this topic i said that she is not particularly well written in like 4 different occasions.
I still don't think that she is as asshole or perfect that can't do no wrong like you people say she is tho.
Just the fact that you say"girl bosses" are obnoxious made me think that i was spot on when i said that all this hate would be vastly reduced if he was a stoic dude that takes shit from nobody instead of a chick.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
It's slightly annoying with Spider Man as well, but less so because he's mildly funny.
Azurro
Banned
That's a dumb argument, men and women are not the same, they act in very different ways and you would write a stoic man quite differently from a stoic woman. Anyway, even then, the character the writers created was not acting stoically, she is an entitled brat. Male or female, if the writer doesn't punish that somehow, then the audience will just ever see that, an entitled brat and comes across as very unlikeable.
You say you don't see that, but tell me a single bad consequence of her entitled way of acting in the entire game? A single decision that she took that was not the right one? Not a single one. Yet she shits on like 2 or 3 tribe leaders, treats everyone around her as if they are retarded and all everyone says is "Alloy, pleeease, let me help you! You are sooo cool!! Pleeease!".
GymWolf
Member
Oh cmon, gtfo with this entitled brat bullshit dude.
She was shunned and hated by her own tribe and grow up hating the whole tribe\religious thing (and fucking deservedly so), you didn't understood shit about her character if your conclusion is "entitled brat".
The fact that now they treat her like a queen doesn't erase her previous hate for tribes and religious shit, that's more realistic than a complete change of character, anyone with a backspine would still be partially mad at the very best, and very resentful at the very worse.
She treats her allies well enough, she helps them for their personal missions and the closest thing to an insult that she says to the squad is when trolls varl for his beard, she is saved the world once, she looks better than 99% of the women in horizon world and she is an able warrior amd a tech savvy, of fucking course they love her even if she hìis a bit rough around the edges.
Let's just agree to disagree, i don't have the strenght to discuss the same fucking thing over and over and over.
She has no fucking time for made up religious bullshits, she has a strict countdown to save the world, add to that how she grew up, and it is perfectly ok for her to have shitty social skills and being focused on the important things over stupid petty ass problems of the tribe chiefs, saving the world come before everything for her, people forget that she was appositely created forctjis mission, that's a big ass weight to have on your shoulder, not every game protagonist who save the world was genetically made just for that.
And she is not as remotely as perfect as you say, she dance on sylens hands for 1 game and a half because he is smarter then her and one of her plans cause the death of varl, talk about perfect plans everytime.
You exagerate everything you say, she doesn't shit on any tribe chief except the one who is clearly slowing her down, she is not the most respectful person in the room, ok , but she hardly shit on anyone who doesn't deserve it.
Where the fuck do you even see her shitting on hekarro here? I only see 2 adults with different objectives talking between them, he is the one on the wrong because if aloy can't get access to that room, him and his fucking war are gonna be meaningless because all people are gonna die anyway, she is in the right for being a bit aggressive when you have to explain such a simple concept, but she back up immediately, the dude jist need to say a couple of words to change her mind, at this point it seems like you just want a protagonist without a spine if this is an example of entitled brat or shitting on someone.
Since someone made the comparison, Geralt threaten fucking everyone (or downright kill) when they try to stop him but once again, he is the good, relatable guy and aloy is just a bitch, gtfo of here...
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MiguelItUp
Member
I tried playing the first game and it just felt so.... boring to me. The main character, the NPCs, the writing and dialogue, etc. Nothing about it felt super appealing to me. Then the gameplay, while not bad, just didn't feel like anything new or memorable. For me, the most memorable thing was the whole "dinosaur robots" thing, which is neat, but it wore off pretty quickly.
To each their own, but I really don't like how it feels like Sony has been HAMMERING it down our throats. I'm sure it has a following, though personally I don't know anyone that cares for it at all. I just can't wait for Sony to be blasting other stuff that isn't Horizon related.
To each their own, but I really don't like how it feels like Sony has been HAMMERING it down our throats. I'm sure it has a following, though personally I don't know anyone that cares for it at all. I just can't wait for Sony to be blasting other stuff that isn't Horizon related.
tmlDan
Member
You didn't have to write this much, I can tell you didn't play the game.
She utilizes and partners with allies way more in this game than the first game. She is not a bitchy loner, you're irrational if you think that.
Here is a list that join you in your base after you quest with them and help you achieve your goals.:
1. Zo
2. Erand
3. Beta
4. Kotallo
5. Alva
6. Tilda (kinda)
7. Varl
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DevilHunterX0
Member
PC Mods, I am disappoint.
GymWolf
Member
Dude he is talking about the beginning of the game where aloy barely accept the help of varl and erend, he is right.
Before quoting him there a lot of people who said way more stupid, inaccurate shit about aloy, you should start from them
tmlDan
Member
How can anyone write something that long when they're talking about the first few hours lolDude he is talking about the beginning of the game where aloy barely accept the help of varl and erend, he is right.
Before quoting him there a lot of people who said way more stupid, inaccurate shit about aloy, you should start from them
GymWolf
Member
He is just very passionate about the brand.
Drizzlehell
Banned
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Fake
Member
Sylens is amazing on the first game. Can't say about the sequel since I never played.
