chemicals
Member
I don't have any Nintendo consoles. That's why (in my little bubble over here) FFX was the last great Square game. And I'm oldschool and consider Dragon Quest an Enix game. LOL
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Any reason to think Final Fantasy XV won't disappoint?
- Thread starter Snowden's Secret
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I don't have any Nintendo consoles. That's why (in my little bubble over here) FFX was the last great Square game. And I'm oldschool and consider Dragon Quest an Enix game. LOL
Not all of us expected it to suck. Or at the very least I didn't expect there to be a numbered FF game worse than VIII.
Great news. Another thing I really liked in the fighting system is that there seems to be a sense of weight, something that was not there in the old trailer.
Yeah, the game *appears* to be returning to the pre-Advent Children FF styled 'realism'. It's the most encouraging aspect for myself.
Pre-determined points it looks like.
considering how XV's engine is still undecided *yeah lol* we can all prepare our selves to wait , wait and then wait some more. I was frustrated at how they didn't give any concrete info on the game.Upon closer examination, nothing really substantial was said about the battle system or gameplay : Oh yeah the world is so big that it won't work on PS3.Oh yeah watch this video..we "think" there will be controllable party members , and we won't give you any specifics on how any of the mechanics will work.
Refusal to give real progress reports was a little frustrating. It seems to me the game is well below 30% completion.Also , how is KH3 staff supposed to compete with XV ? Shouldn't these games be years apart in progress ?
The only way this game can come out in a timely manner is to have an over blown dev team of 500 to rush things.Its unfortunate that after all this wait they moved forward ever so slightly.
I don't think it will suck at all.But boy we are gonna WAIT to get it.
The game will probably be polarizing among existing fans but it can be successful in bringing in new fans.Something SE needs at this point.
Refusal to give real progress reports was a little frustrating. It seems to me the game is well below 30% completion.Also , how is KH3 staff supposed to compete with XV ? Shouldn't these games be years apart in progress ?
The only way this game can come out in a timely manner is to have an over blown dev team of 500 to rush things.Its unfortunate that after all this wait they moved forward ever so slightly.
I don't think it will suck at all.But boy we are gonna WAIT to get it.
The game will probably be polarizing among existing fans but it can be successful in bringing in new fans.Something SE needs at this point.
Somewhat pre-determined, but I'm sure there will be a fuckton of those points where you can , i.e. you should be able to scale up a building's wall and get a top of it if you want to, there shouldn't be any kind of lack of zero-shift lock-on points to prevent that.
Well, he WAS being ignorant and just sprouting some silly, blind haterboy crap that has absolutely no basis in reality. There are completely understandable reasons why 1) the game still hasn't been released,2) it's a next-gen release and 3) it got a name change to officially be a mainline FF.
I'm just tired that we can't have any Square Enix threads without stupid shit being posted by people who don't know anything of what they are talking about. You can be critical of Square Enix without having this juvenile black & white, butthurt fan way of speaking about things.
Then I assume you haven't played any (actually developed by Square Enix, you can't base your opinion of SQEX development profiency on Tri-Ace shit like Infinite Undiscovery) apart from FFXIII.
It isn't undecided. They are advancing full steam with the development of FFXV, they just don't have the fully finalized Luminous Studios to develop the game on. You're making this into an bigger issue than it is. Because they don't have finalized Luminous Studio, they've come up with their own way of doing things. That doesn't really mean anything for the completion time of the development.
They SHOWED the game, that's substance. We saw how it will work. Also, blame the interviewers for not having concrete info when they focused more on Nomura's feelings and the move to next-gen than actual gameplay-specifics.
THey didn't say the world is too big for PS3, they said that they had plans for the game which they can't achieve with the PS3, stuff that they would have had to cut if they made the game on PS3 (I'm pretty sure the Leviathan fight is one of them, that kind of grand scale ain't happening on PS3 level hardware).
A video is better than a thousand words. And we got two, one of which was completely focused on gameplay. I mean, what more could you want, the full manual for the gameplay? Does it really matter if we don't know which button you have to press for warp, it's enough that we just now we CAN warp in the game. And part of the reason why they aren't talking about specifics is probably because they still haven't completely finalized everything
They've shown controllable party members in the past for Versus XIII and confirmed that feature is still in XV, we aren't just guessing that they are in... >_>
The game is still quite likely at least 1,5-ish years away from release. They've got plenty of time to go in-depth with the mechanics. I'm sure TGS will bring us tons of new & clarifying information about the gameplay now that the veil has finally been pulled off this project. This was just the grand re-reveal of the game, not the be-all end-all of XV's marketing. That's not how their or any other publisher's marketing/info-giving works. If they revealed everything now, there would be nothing new to reveal at a later date.
The world was fully traversable in Fall 2011. Even with the move to next-gen, I'm sure it's far more than 30% done, especially when they plan to start showing the game at bigger events regularly. If it was only 30% done, they wouldn't be pushing the project so heavily or have too much to even show from the game.
What does the timing of when the development started have to do with that? They are both action RPGs and both teams want to do the best they can. It's friendly rivalry. The FFXV team is all "look, this is what we've got, let's see what you can cook up in the future" and push the Osaka team to try ´make something as good or even better.
Lol, the two trailers they showed don't look like "they moved forward ever so slightly", they are massive leaps over the PS3 version and show a completely new huge city with all kinds of new gameplay elements.
They wouldn't have had started the marketing of this game if it was still really far away from release. An early 2015 release is probably the absolute latest point this game will be released in.
I dont see what you are seeing. Its looks lot like advent children actually. Thematically at least.
Cant't judge a movie on gameplay.
Shadow Ranger
Member
Far too early to say anything at the moment. The fights look very set piece heavy but given the scale of FF's it certainly can't be like that all the way through.
I believe in Nomura. No doubt him and his team will get all the praise, but I reckon Toriyama's work this gen and his knowledge/experience in HD development will be passed on to better help everyone else. The sacrificial lamb, even. But yeah, I have hopes for Nomura.
I believe in Nomura. No doubt him and his team will get all the praise, but I reckon Toriyama's work this gen and his knowledge/experience in HD development will be passed on to better help everyone else. The sacrificial lamb, even. But yeah, I have hopes for Nomura.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
I am EXTEMELY dubious of Square right now.
However, I am willing to give them another chance on this one.
However, I am willing to give them another chance on this one.
Elaugaufein
Member
I am not a "haterboy". I am merely disappointed in mainline FF post FFX (and if you'd like to backtrack you'll find I haven't called XV a spinoff and have generally treated it as a mainline FF) but I don't bear Square Enix any enmity. I will likely day 1 Bravely Default and buy KH3 at some point. I also don't think everything they've put out since FFX was garbage, I enjoyed TO:LUCT and FF
imensions and thought Four Heroes of Light, DQIX and the mainline DS remakes were okay. I suspect you may have been mislead by the post you responsed too but it is intended to be read in the same somewhat humorous tone as the post it is a response too.
I also suspect that your relationship to SE is closer than mine from some of the information you seem to have and I assure you it was not my intention to insult anyone personally and I am sorry if I did so.
Really late with this, but...
Pretty sure XII did have a wait option (you could specifically set the game to pause while choosing commands manually).
Elaugaufein
Member
I remember being able to slow it right down but no wait mode. I may be wrong though.
There was indeed a 'wait' option I believe.
PshycoNinja
Member
You cannot say this in good conscience when Toriyama has tied up resources and development staff for years. Of course Ito and Nomura can't bring a game out when either:
1) the project does not have the go ahead
Or
2) the development staff isn't there to be able to work on the game in earnest
So yeah of course Toriyama has got more games out the door but that has nothing to do with Nomura or Itou's abilities to get a game out and more to do with development staff being tied up in Toriyama's pet projects and XIV.
Itou, Kitase, Tabata, Yoshida and Nomura will always be more capable directors then Toriyama could ever hope to be.
You seem to be interpreting me as looking forward to more Toriyama.
I'm not a fan of his directing; I'm just stating how the business looks from the outside. None of us really know jack about the internal office politics.
PshycoNinja
Member
You do know that most of the "orginal team" didn't work on XIII and in fact is working on XV right?
Why give those two FF's a chance and not this one. Especially since this is the most promising FF since X...
There was indeed a wait option that paused the game whilst letting you execute commands for the party.
I liked that system, personally.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
If anything this is the most over-the-top FF ever seen (colliding with Nomura's intentions to create realistics characters and world). Way beyond AC itself, infactNoctis itself warps continuesly around the battlefield and fights giant summons like Kratos.
FFX and FFXIII didn't have anything like this. Nor Tidus or Lightning were capable of such special actions.
PshycoNinja
Member
No. This is nothing like God Of War. This already looks much deeper a combat system. Don't compare two things that are nothing alike.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
? It seems button smashing at his best, like Kingdom Hearts. I don't know how can you see a "deep BS" in the latest videos, lol.
We were not speaking of that though, just of super-hero-animu characters making animu-actions like in Advent Children. And Versus got PLENTY of this.
There's nothing wrong with it for me anyway, I love this type of action in my jRPGs. It's one of the differences from the boring cRPGs and why I love Final Fantasy.
Kinda does, with that part with the now-cliche spreadeagle pose of shuffling along a bigger boss's legs or body. I'm actually not too sure which game started it, possibly Shadow of the Colossus, but after that it pretty much turned up everywhere, from God of War to Castlevania.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Guys, I've got to know: Is Perfo for real? Because somehow I get the feeling that responding to him will go no where...
I don't recall talking to the guy but I don't see anything that's particularly trollish or fake?
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
I think with the next-gen consoles they *may* be able to design it that way but I doubt it. Each area may have a few points where you can warp to but that's it.
charlequin
Banned
A lot of the problem is that people give way too much credit to individuals and put way too little stock in systemic problems. Nomura is a great designer and has a lot to his credit on the production/direction side, but the problems with Square-Enix over the last
I do think it's possible that some of the technical issues are sorted out, but the fact that SE has cancelled around 20 games in the last few years, completely killed their previously-lucrative handheld business, and failed to move into next-gen with anything besides rewarmed PS3 games makes it clear that things are still pretty fucked over there.
Oh most definitely. SE is still prone to making mistakes. Look at their most recent one: the KH3 announcement. I mean considering the fact that they announced KH3 already and even Nomura thought it was still early to say anything about the game says something. Now it's one thing if they announced it early and can get it out in a good turnaround time but this will most likely not be the case.
charlequin
Banned
Judged purely by the facts on the ground, folks offering up optimistic viewpoints are a hell of a lot more guilty of this than pessimistic ones.
I don't think this is correct. Game was announced way too early for there to be basically any time for a change like this. Do you just mean the thing where Sakaguchi originally conceptualized this story as a new IP?
Not sure about FFX, but it's known that FFIX wasn't planned as a main-line title (instead as Final Fantasy Gaiden) and only got revealed as such not long before release. So anybody arguing that FFXV is no "real" FF doesn't know about how game development works and how often games get shifted/renamed/scrapped/changed and whatnot during production. Just check out some stuff on Unseen64^^
Yeah, FF9 was for sure a non-FF. FFX is news to me.
just curious, is that 20 number mentioned any where or are you just saying as an example?
Yeah, it was Kitase and Sakaguchi I think who originally conceived it as a new IP and then it got turned into FF. I know some other FFs have started like that as well.
Also re the SE threads, they're hillarious. You have people coming here who just dislike JRPGs in general, people who dislike FF, people who dislike Nomura and blame him for everything, people who for some reason bring up Toriyama even if it's not his game we're discussing, people who bitch about SE as a whole, people who LOVE LIGHTING AND EVERYONE MUST KNOW ABOUT IT, people blindly defending SE and FF and saying 'things will be ok now' and Perfo. It's a nice mix to read.
Yeah I was trying to look for this as well. Thanks.
chickdigger802
Banned
Am curious if FF14RR bombing will have an impact on the quality of 15 (a la we needa rush this out).
And lol people comparing this to god of war. If this was a pure action game based off the gameplay trailer, it would be the worst controlling one of recent. Looks way too canned animations for every move to be mapped out like an action game.
Most likely some sort of turn based combat with some real time actiony elements like evasion. Kinda like stuff you see in modern mmos like GW2.
And lol people comparing this to god of war. If this was a pure action game based off the gameplay trailer, it would be the worst controlling one of recent. Looks way too canned animations for every move to be mapped out like an action game.
Most likely some sort of turn based combat with some real time actiony elements like evasion. Kinda like stuff you see in modern mmos like GW2.
It still proves they 1) listen to fans for what is wrong so hopefully the whole company has learned some lessons on this (they seem to have) and 2) can produce quality non-handheld level content. Pulling off FFXIV 2.0 is really something no one has done before, so hopefully it proves out to be at least moderately successful for them.
Sure, as I said, some of the changes didn't quite succeed as well as they should've, but how on Earth do you make it sound like a BAD thing when they made XIII-2 more open and LR is now even more open? That's exactly the kind of criticism developers SHOULD listen to and act upon. That's not "focus tested crap"
Kingdom Hearts III is the ONLY offender in years and I can see why they announced it this early (people have waited long enough without any idea if it's in development or not). And at least they were up front about the fact that it's still long ways off. Still, based on Nomura's comments they aren't going to keep it sealed away in a vault for the next 2-3 years before showing/talking about it again, so that's another thing they've learned about. The long periods of silence surrounding Versus XIII were the worst part about the early announcement, really, not necessarily the fact that the wait has been long.
The action is over-the-top, yes, but that's not what Nomura meant. The actual story/how the characters otherwise act is supposedly to do away with people like "super-cheery-animu-girl" Vanille or "shonen-cliche-I'm-a-hero" Snow and have people having more realistic behaviour/motives when they interact with each other/react to things happening around them. Of course how well they pull this off is still to be seen. But at least so far the characters have avoided the worst of animu (even if the dialogue isn't Oscar-worthy or anything). I thought the exchange between the king and kid Noctis was fun, certainly much better & more natural than somewhat similar "personal" scenes like Lightning's birthday in FFXIII.
Most of XV's development problems are that they weren't able to develop the game due to surrounding factors, not the game's development itself.
Is it really weird for a big publisher to have cancelled a lot of projects? I remember reading similar stuff from Capcom, how they have shittons of projects that are worked on but get cancelled before anyone ever hears about them. This was around when they cancelled Mega Man Legends 3, they said how it was unusual for them to show a project so early and at that state and how it isn't unusual at all for them to can projects at that point.
How accurate is that 20 game number, btw?
The DS/PSP generation was an anomaly and it wasn't without its problems (the games didn't sell in the west because of pirating & platforms they were on). It's not completely Square Enix's fault that it's not lucrative anymore. There's simply way less of a chance that a game of the scale of something like Type-0 could ever be profitable when pushing current-gen handheld tech the same way they did DS & PSP, not in the current handheld market, and those were exactly the kind of games that were the best on DS & PSP.
Most 3rd parties don't seem to have been much else but cross-gen games, only 1st parties/1st party published games seem to be build from the ground up (though, even then there are stuff like Ryse & Crimson Dragon that move over from Xbox 360).
Kingdom Hearts III was never a PS3 game so there's no rewarming there (though you could argue it SHOULD be). And we don't really have any idea what they have in development for next-gen that are still under the wraps. FFXV seems pretty far along, they must have other projects in differing states of completion for the next 3-4 years. They just NEEDED to (re-)reveal Versus now, it just happens to be moved to next-gen. If they had revealed FFXVI before it then that would just have been ridiculous.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
What if I get my hopes up for a game with a fighting system about as deep an intuitive as Bayonetta, a story about as good as Metal Gear Solid 4, cod-philosophy as muted as Monster Hunter and a layout and feel about as intuitive as Kingdom Hearts?
very funny
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
So the current talking point is that the game really didn't go into production 'till 2011? A whopping five years after the reveal? Jesus Christ. If released in 2015 it will be almost a decade since its reveal. That just blows my mind.
It was due to a lot of factors such as the initial failure of XIV, but yeah I is pretty ridiculous all the same. I'd expect we would have the game by now if that hadn't happened.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Too many projects; flawed business model; Crystal Tools wasn't favorable; weak indecisive leadership, everything contributed to that. Basically they had to ship FFXIII first and changed their business model after shipping it. They had this "let's just reuse assets and try to make as much money as we can" mentality, and FFXIV also turned out to be a massive resource hog. Although, I'm kind of happy that this game will be released on next-gen consoles, so I guess it isn't that bad.
It went to FULL PRODUCTION in the second half of 2011 with a small team having worked on getting the game off the ground before that until they got the project into a certain point when they could start building up the team size and just crank out the rest of the content.
This is really the way all development works, even at other publishers/developers. Like, say, how Insomniac had Resistance and R&C series take turns every year. When they were at full production of a Resistance game, they started figuring out what they'd do with the next R&C game and once Resistance shipped, a large majority would go to work on finishing the R&C game while a small team started figuring out what to do with the next Resistance game etc. etc.
The difference being that Square Enix screwed up FFXIII & XIV so they spend a few years on fixing that clusterfuck of a situation instead of putting all effort (or, at times, ANY effort) on Versus XIII's development. There were long periods of time when the development didn't advance significantly (or at all) because they were, for example, helping finish FFXIII for a whole year or so. And of course, yeah, the game was announced a long time before much was done to the game.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Nope, it will be polarizing.
I will say that this is the most interesting FF since 12 for me.
I will say that this is the most interesting FF since 12 for me.
charlequin
Banned
Very approximate estimate based on the number of times S-E have done major house-cleaning multi-title cancellation sprees.
You basically have to be terminally naive to believe this.
At the scale that Square-Enix has recently, combined with the drop in final output in the areas where they were previously prolific (console RPGs, handheld titles, etc.), yes it is.
The problem is more with Square-Enix abandoning this mode of development (due to pulling their entire company's staff onto their most troubled projects just to get them out of the door); there's still plenty of opportunity to make money on handheld-scope games (whether on 3DS/Vita, DD services, or mobile.)
The sense of weight, while nice to look at in the trailers, looks to be a pain in the ass in actual gameplay since the animation has to play out before executing the next action.
Besides, the tag-team action in the gameplay trailer with the gigantic sword seemed off. The characters were struggling under its weight, yet it moved as though it were made of foam.
I think the two of you are making the same point, just at different points in the logic chain. XV's development wasn't troubled because there was none to speak of, which is worrying considering it is one of SE's flagship titles and unveiled an entire generation prior. That is in turn due to the royally dysfunctional hierachy of SE's development teams and management organization. One begets the other.
charlequin
Banned
There was a lot more done than the optimists claim. The more time goes on with this game obviously unfinished and stuck in development hell, the further back the claims go on when "real" development started -- first it was 2007, then it was 2009, now Famassu is talking about 2011 which is obviously absurd.
The idea that all the real development of this game -- a title that's seen enough development to have its engine rebooted multiple times and its core gameplay reworked from the ground up -- has gone smoothly and according to plan isn't supported by any of the information we have.
PshycoNinja
Member
I agree that development has obviously not gone smoothly and has gone through various iterations within the pre-production stage. It has not gone according to plan. However it's hard to push a game through completion when you only have a small core team working on the game.
Oh and that whole thing about "real" (read: full) development not starting until 2011? Yeah that's true.
http://gematsu.com/2011/09/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-in-full-production
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2012/07/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-development-timeline-outlined-in-gameinformer/
http://www.vg247.com/2011/09/12/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-now-in-full-development-says-square/
I remember reading that back in 2011 and I couldn't believe it. It upset me a bit.
Deified Data
Banned
Great news. Another thing I really liked in the fighting system is that there seems to be a sense of weight, something that was not there in the old trailer.
Getting the feeling that most of the game will be a lot like this narrow hallway.
PshycoNinja
Member
The scripted sequences? Yeah probably.
The information we have is so vague that it is impossible to draw any conclusions anyway. That being said, there is a strong case for lack of development work for two reasons:
1) The consistency of what little there is to go by. One would expect obvious variations in graphics and style should the project actually be in 'development hell' (Duke Nukem Forever, Starcraft Ghost). I find it hard that the same team could work continuously on a title for 7 years without getting fired given the lack of product.
2) Nomura has gone on the record stating that staff had to be diverted to other projects. FFXIV's retooling had to be done somehow, and SE definitely did not go on a hiring spree with the losses it has been posting. His admission in 2011 that Versus had not gone into 'full production' is pretty damning.
That is not to say that development progressed smoothly when it did occur. The 2009 trailer was a 'technology test', which is absurd - I would expect them to do so when the official announcement was made. The relative silence on progress draws comparisons to The Last Guardian, which has even less to show and no forthcoming reason for its protracted development.
Really, it's probably a combination of both lack of development and development hell. However, I think we can all agree that SE needs to get this out ASAP and that it had better knock our socks off.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Hopefully. Too much open, risks of being broken rise. We need balanced open areas vs closed areas, open world vs driven world.