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Assassin's Creed 3: Revolutionary War history and Timeline Discussion

Amir0x

Banned
ASSCREED3.jpg
MollyPitcher.jpg


SOME SPOILERS IN THIS TOPIC FROM THE INFO WE GOT FROM GAME INFORMER

It's kind of early, but because I love early American history, and because I saw people confusing Civil War with Revolutionary War and a lot of questions regarding what potential characters we might see and moments we could see given the 1753-1783 timeline, I'm going to give a brief rundown of events during this period and then people can discuss what they feel make good moments in ACIII or just ask for elaboration on specific moments.

There's no way to be comprehensive in a thread like this, so feel free to add your thoughts on who would make a good character or a good moment in history!

Here's some guesses at who Connor/Ratohnhaketon might meet being half-mohawk indian, half-English.

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Important MOHAWK players
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MollyBrant.jpg


Thayendanegea - or Joseph Brant - fits perfectly for many reasons. As a prominent Mohawk war chief during some of the years AC3 takes place, he also met key players during this time such as George Washington and King George III. But more interestingly, he was a freemason and fought - like most Mohawk warriors - on the side of the British during the Revolutionary War. His role in such iconic moments as the Cherry Valley Massacre make him perfect for insertion. His sister played a similarly prominent role in the course of early American history.

MollyBrantwow.jpg


Konwatsi'tsiaienni - or Molly Brant - was an ardent defender of staying on the side of the British during the Revolutionary War, and participated in many events that had some real impact. She provided shelter and provisions to loyalists fleeing to Canada. And during the siege of Patriots in Fort Stanwix, Brant learned that Patriot reinforcements were coming and managed to inform the British, which led to their ambush. Later she acted as a sort of de facto diplomatic between Iroquois Nation individuals and the British.

Death_of_Montgomery.jpg


Joseph Louis Cook - or Akiatonharónkwen - was well known as being one of the few Mohawk who fought on the side of the Americans during the Revolutionary War. But what makes him a great candidate for a lifelong character in Assassin's Creed timeline is he also fought in the French and Indian War. He served with Benedict Arnold during the Rev War, and became known as "Colonel Cook" for most of the war. He was engaged in so many important battles, from the Saratoga Campaign, to Valley Forge, to Oriskany that he has the potential to appear about everywhere.

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IMPORTANT AMERICAN PLAYERS
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declaration_of_independence_by_john_trumbull.jpg


Benjamin Franklin as we know was gone during most of the Revolutionary War, participating in one of the most important diplomatic missions in American history. He was also so old during that time that he likely would not have been a great Da Vinci like inventory gadget guy for the whole game. But during the early parts of the game - 1754~1756, he has some interesting actions. He went with a delegation to Albany on a mission to improve relations with the Indians (thus a link to our Native American hero, perhaps?), and was the first in America to propose a plan for a union of the colonies. It was rejected at the time, but became a foundational document for the Articles of Confederation decades later. In 56, he put together the Pennsylvania Militia which among other things was used to fight Native American uprisings. And what many don't know is that Benjamin Franklin was that during the French/Indian War he was a commander during the Gnadenhütten campaign, and achieved moderate success. Afterwards, Benjamin Franklin leaves frequently for England and France, and is in America for only brief periods of times after 1756.

George Washington needs no introduction, but of course we can see how we might meet him in the early parts of the game. Although he made several major missteps during the French/Indian War, he did distinguish himself overall and even earned the moniker "hero of Monongahela" for his help organizing one particular retreat. He famously said he felt alive when under fire. He was, as many know, a Templar... which is going to make for some interesting features to this game. What's going to be most fascinating his Washington's time during the Revolutionary War. Assassin's Creed 3 takes place in Boston and New York (as well as Concord, Lexington, etc), and as anyone who knows the history of 1776, Washington made several catastrophic mistakes that quite very nearly destroyed the continental army. In particular, several battles that took place in New York showed him as a borderline incompetent, and the Congress lost so much confidence in him he almost lost his station. He eventually redeemed himself, but not until later... and in battles that frequently took place away from where this game is staged.

Charles Lee is an interesting figure during the War. Intensely critical of George Washington's handling of the war, he was himself a distinguished war hero who played a critical role in repulsing the British army at Charleston during the battle of Sullivan's Island. When he returned to New York, he was consistently shocked at the way Washington led, as well as being intensely envious of his station, and wrote many letters to Congress to ask he be put in charge of the continental army. During the retreat out of New York, Lee was supposed to meet up with Washington in Pennsylvania. Being bitter and resentful, he intentionally used delay tactics and slogged so slowly that eventually the British came upon him in a tavern and he was captured while he was still wearing his night gown on December 12, 1776. Lee was released shortly after in an exchange, and in one of the most notorious bumbles of the war, ignored Washington's orders at Monmouth, issued a retreat instead of the attack required of him, and was promptly court martialed and relieved of duty. An interesting sidenote: in 1857, a note was found written by Lee which showed that while he was captured, he had written up detailed plans for the British on how they could defeat the Americans. So it is unclear if Monmouth was intentional treachery or not.

John Adams is almost certainly to appear, given his prominence in Boston and his pivotal role in the founding of our country. From a very early point, he believed America should declare independence even when most did not. He gained prominence as an objective mediator as he successfully defended the soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. He was also one of the core group of five who were commissioned to write the Declaration of Independence. He was a stubborn, unhappy man who was always complaining in letters he wrote to his wife, Abigail Adams, who most historians suggest had the respect of Adams to such a degree that her advice frequently directly led to Adams making decisions on her word. It was a remarkable relationship that continued until the day Abigail died. He was bitterly envious of Benjamin Franklin (and, well, almost everyone actually), yet begrudgingly admired his intellect. In one hilarious anecdote, Adams and Franklin are forced to share a room. Franklin goes to open the window, and Adam grumbles that he will catch a cold. Franklin proceeds then to explain in detail his theory on why the opposite is true, and Adams apparently remained enraptured by the explanation... as they shared a bed.

Thomas Paine might appear during the Revolutionary War, as he wrote Common Sense, a pamphlet which galvanized the American people and convinced many to sign up for the continental army (which was, at the time, badly beaten and losing more ranks every day). I can conceive of several mission types that might occur should he appear, that might even relate to his pamphlet.

Thomas Jefferson is a difficult choice. Although pivotal in the creation of the Deceleration of Independence, he spent most of his time during the Revolutionary War in Virginia and would not have been in any of the places the game takes place in the vast majority of the time. Given his stature in the mythology of Early American history, it must be a temptation to have him included... and as he was also an avid learner and tinkerer, he could play several roles.

Nathanael Greene played huge roles in throughout the war, and quickly became one of Washington's most trusted generals. His roles in Boston and New York make him, in my estimation, almost certain to appear, and he's a rather interesting figure in his own right: As a Quaker he was always against war, and yet immediately showed an affinity for it. He was also a freemason, and actually advocated the burning of NYC as they retreated so that the British would get no use of it. Washington agreed with him, but Congress denied it.

Benedict Arnold is actually a far more complex figure than the comically black and white strokes people paint him in. He was an ardent supporter of the American cause early on. He proposed and then participated in an attack and capture of Fort Ticonderoga add Fort Saint-Jean, which was extremely successful. Yet he got little credit and when the Connecticut militia force arrived, he promptly resigned his post and left. So again urged by Arnold, Congress authorized an invasion of Quebec... and he got passed over for the expedition. He then went to George Washington and proposed an attack on Quebec City, and led men there... but his leg was crushed in battle, and even though he was promoted to brigadier general, the credit for the campaign was frequently given to others. In 1777, he was passed over for a promotion he wanted again by Congress, and it was so clearly politically motivated that Washington wrote Congress in Arnold's defense. Things came to a head when he was appointed military commander of Philadelphia. He languished there, plotting ways to make money, until his political enemies amassed evidence until they charge him in public. When nobody came to his aid to clear his name, he felt it was the final straw, and began plotting to join the British. And the rest is history.

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IMPORTANT BRITISH PLAYERS
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Thomas Gage was the Governor of Massachusetts from 1774, right after the Boston Tea Party and began to implement a series of actions - including the Boston Port act - that quickly enraged the Boston community and led to many key moments in the start of the Revolutionary War. Because we know Lexington and Concord are in the game, it makes sense Gage would be here - he ordered British troops early on to march on Concord, since rebels were stockpiling weapons. In what became known as The Battle of Lexington and Concord - one of the very earliest true battles in the Revolutionary War - the Americans ended up routing the British, with over 270 casualties on the British side and only around 90 for the Americans. He then ended up being a key player during The Siege of Boston, where he offered pardons for anyone who turned their weapons down and pledged allegiance once more to the crown. It was a disastrous campaign, for even though the British eventually removed the Americans, the casualties were ghastly and it proved that this might not be so easy a rebellion to squash. Gage left America in 1775.

General Howe is a British character that could be established early on the game, considering his participation in the Seven Years War. He was in America during the French and Indian War, and distinguished himself significantly during various battles including Beaufort, The Plains of Abraham and The Siege of Quebec. During the Revolutionary War, he was one of the primary players in the fight against the rebels in the early parts of the Revolutionary War. He helped win the victory in The Battle of Bunker Hill at Boston, but the cost was terrible. He was famed to have said "It was a success ... too dearly bought." After this, it apparently scarred his psyche - people around him stated he started commanding differently, his own leadership subject to fail him at any time. He invaded New York and roused the rebels, who were eventually forced to retreat into New Jersey - especially after the capture of thousands of rebels at Fort Washington. He had to deal with a major fire in the city during this time period and in the end was embarrassed in New Jersey as he failed to properly pursue the rebels and in a series of miscalculations, allowed the Hessians in Trenton to be routed, lost a second battle in Trenton and a third in Princeton, before Washington's army got away again. This occurred due to Washington's iconic crossing of the Delaware, by the way. In 1777, Howe resigned his position.

John Burgoyne and Henry Clinton are two others who had prominent roles during various aspects of the war for the British. Burgoyne in particular came up with the Saratoga Campaign, which might have been successful had Howe joined his forces with his as he thought would happen. Even still, initially there was some success before eventually being decimated by the patriots, leading to the biggest victory for the Americans yet up until that point. It absolutely electrified the country and recruitment swelled around the colonies. Henry Clinton took command after Howe resigned his position as commander of the British armies in America, and although he gained some early momentum with a daring march, he largely commanded an army who was now starting to face ever growing defeats once the French began to commit more funds and ships.


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TIMELINE
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We've got 1753-1783 as the basic timeline of Assassin's Creed III. I'll try to list events I think may be in the game, but you guys can add your own ideas.

1753 will apparently be when our hero Connor's Mohawk village is destroyed.
1754 The French and Indian War breaks out. I don't believe this is a coincidence, I'm certain there will be quite a number of events during this time that ACIII takes advantage of.
1758 The English suffer a embarrassing defeat at Fort Ticonderoga. They lose over 2000 men. As an aside, the first Indian Reservation in America is founded this same year.
1760 Boston suffers a devastating fire which destroys much of the city. And the fated George III becomes King of England.
1763 The French and Indian War ends with the British getting all territory east of the Mississippi (except New Orleans).
1764 The Currency Act is passed, which prevents any colony from creating its own legal tender money. This threatens to destroy the economy in the colonies, and is the first time that the colonies begin to unite behind a common cause against some law imposed by the King. James Otis is the first person to proclaim "no taxation without representation", and Boston merchants start a boycott against Britain.
1765 The Stamp Act is passed, imposing a tax on the people to offset the cost of the British military in America. All printed materials are taxed. This enrages the colonists. The Quartering Act is also passed, requiring any American to house and feed British soldiers at will. This starts a series of events. Patrick Henry begins to present resolution after resolution in Virginia describing why the taxes are illegal. The Sons of Liberty are formed, attacking any agent of the British Stamp act and forcing them all to resign. Congress prepares a petition that claims that taxation without representation violates their civil rights. Violence breaks out around the colonies in November as business essentially grinds to a halt as nobody will use stamps.
1766 Thomas Gage had asked late in 1765 to the New York assembly to enforce the Quartering Act; in 1766 they blankly refuse. Benjamin Franklin goes to parliament and argues why the stamp act is wrong; King George III signs a repeal of the act. This emboldens the colonists for around five seconds before on the same day the act is repealed, parliament issues a declaration stating that the British government has the right to pass and legislate any and all laws it damn well pleases. In August, violence breaks out in New York with the colonists and British soldiers as they continue to refuse to listen to the Quarter Act. The English Crown suspends the NY legislature.
1767 Now a bold parliament passes the Townshend Revenue Acts, which imposes yet another series of unwanted taxes on an unrepresented colony. Glass, tea... paper... many pivotal items continue to be taxed. The Boston boycott begins anew.
1768 Throughout the year, many acts of aggression occur. A british war ship sails into Boston harbor and is eventually forced to leave. New York joins the boycott. Residents in Boston and New York have begun to be urged to arm themselves. The British return with several regiments of soldiers and begin to essentially occupy Boston.
1769 Boycott spreads to Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, New Jersey, North Carolina and Virginia.
1770 The legendary Boston Massacre. A mob gathers and throw ice, rocks, and more at the soldiers stationed. The soldiers, fearing for their lives, fire pointblank into the crowd, killing five and injuring six. Crispus Attucks becomes the first African American to die in the American Revolution as a result of this massacre. The Townshend Revenue Act is repealed. John Adams defends the soldiers involved in the massacre, successfully.
1772 Sam Adams and a 21 member committee endorse three proclamations stating the colonists right to self-rule.
1773 The Tea Act is imposed by Britain. It maintains the tax on imported tea, but more significantly it gives the British East India Company a virtual monopoly, destroying American merchants who can't compete. Meetings are held throughout Philadelphia and Boston to decide what action to take. Ultimately, it is decided that they will send the ships with tea back to England without paying taxes. Governor of Massachusetts, Hutchinson, disagrees and demands the ship not leave without the taxes being paid. Thus the Boston Tea Party occurs that night, on December 16, where colonists disguised as Mohawk indians dump the tea into the harbor.
1774 Parliament responds with vicious acts, essentially saying all commercial shipping to Boston ends until the taxes are paid. General Thomas Gage puts Boston under military rule. This is followed by a series of acts passed by parliament basically stripping the colonists of Massachusetts of any and all power to self-rule. The First Continent Congress which includes many of our famous founding fathers decides to issue a Declaration and Resolve, opposing all the acts the British government has been trying to impose on the colonies without representation. "life, liberty and property". They also impose a new boycott on all exports and imports, including slaves.
1775 The march toward war begins. Patrick Henry declares "give me liberty or give me death!" in Virginia. Governor Gage is given the power to suppress the rebels. He decides to go to Concord and take out the weapons depot there, but the Bostonians find out and Paul Revere and William Dawes ride out to warn those in Lexington and Concord about the British coming. The Battle of Lexington and Concord begin and end, with the British facing a surprising loss.

1776-1783

1776 of course being the year the Deceleration of Independence is signed, an effective death warrant for all involved should they lose the war.

Since the events during this time encompass so much, this will be fun to speculate precisely what battles and events they follow. The Siege of Boston seems obvious. The attack on New York and Fort Washington. The Delaware Crossing, taking out Trenton, Princeton. So many amazing stories.

The war of course ends in 1783, which is conveniently when the timeline of ACIII ends.


DISCUSS what events and people you want to see covered!
 
One thing's for sure: it'll be very interesting to see what they do with the story and the characters. I get the feeling a lot of American patriots could be pissed if their 'founding fathers' are depicted as evil Templars.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Great job, but I feel this thread will die. :p

So Amir0x, I wonder who can be assassinated in this game? I know that Charles Lee died in 1782, but do you know other possible targets?
 

Mush

6.0
Thanks Amir0x. This will make for great reading later as I know fuck all about American history.
 
One thing's for sure: it'll be very interesting to see what they do with the story and the characters. I get the feeling a lot of American patriots could be pissed if their 'founding fathers' are depicted as evil Templars.

I know many people on another board who are about to raise hell. They'll be enraged if the Americans aren't presented as the good guy heroes and the British as evil.
 

Amir0x

Banned
One thing's for sure: it'll be very interesting to see what they do with the story and the characters. I get the feeling a lot of American patriots could be pissed if their 'founding fathers' are depicted as evil Templars.

it seems they intend to paint everyone in shades of gray, which is appropriate. If you read any number of books on the founding fathers, the REAL people they were is far more interesting than the myths Americans have made around them. These are genuinely multifaceted individuals with demons and angels among their character, and it's worth exploring.

I doubt ACIII's writers can do that sort of nuance justice, but I don't think portraying some founding fathers as negative wouldn't be too far off base :p

Great job, but I feel this thread will die. :p

So Amir0x, I wonder who can be assassinated in this game? I know that Charles Lee died in 1782, but do you know other possible targets?

There were actually no recorded assassinations in America prior to the Revolutionary War that I know of, and during the war I don't recall any moment of someone of importance being killed in a stealth assassination type situation; several prominent figures died during battles proper, but...

...really, it continues to amaze me how weird it is they picked this period for their game about climbing big buildings and assassinating people :p
 
There were actually no recorded assassinations in America prior to the Revolutionary War that I know of, and during the war I don't recall any moment of someone of importance being killed in a stealth assassination type situation; several prominent figures died during battles proper, but...

...really, it continues to amaze me how weird it is they picked this period for their game about climbing big buildings and assassinating people :p

Maybe it is because the people who recorded the info were also assassinated.

On a more serious note, maybe it is more about stealth in the wilderness instead of hiding in township.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I really hope there's a story mission associated with the Boston fire. There's a ton of potential there.
 

traveler

Not Wario
Given the locations in the game, I would love to see Henry Knox's special weapons expedition into Ticonderoga. Seems like a suitable mission for a stealthy assassin in New York to be involved in. I also just hope that Knox is represented in some form or another period. I know Greene was Washington's favorite, but Knox was up there in terms of the generals he favored. I guess it was always his fate to be overshadowed by Washington's other compatriots, whether it be on the battlefield or in the cabinet.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I really hope there's a story mission associated with the Boston fire. There's a ton of potential there.

There is a story mission associated with the Fire of New York, so it'd make sense if they had one for Boston.

Maybe it is because the people who recorded the info were also assassinated.

On a more serious note, maybe it is more about stealth in the wilderness instead of hiding in township.

I suspect, particularly with the focus on the engine being able to display actual battles (1000 people on screen at once), that many assassinations may take the form of "you must make your way through this battlefield and take out X individual."

I also think there will be plenty of lesser ranked military officials that are taken out on their marches, and loyalists (and colonists) who are singled out, but might not necessarily have huge roles. They probably select a few people whose death history is unsure about and then mock up narratives around it.

My thoughts exactly. I know pretty much nothing about American history so this will be an interesting read.

Glad you and others appreciate it. I really love this period of time, but for the way it really was, not the glorified mythology that it has become to most Americans.

Given the locations in the game, I would love to see Henry Knox's special weapons expedition into Ticonderoga. Seems like a suitable mission for a stealthy assassin in New York to be involved in. I also just hope that Knox is represented in some form or another period. I know Greene was Washington's favorite, but Knox was up there in terms of the generals he favored. I guess it was always his fate to be overshadowed by Washington's other compatriots, whether it be on the battlefield or in the cabinet.

Ticonderoga would be awesome.

One of the things I've wondered about, since much of the Revolutionary War took place south of New York, if there will be 'excursion' missions like there were in other AC games. For example, even though it takes place in Boston and New York, maybe you'll go on a mission that takes you to Charleston during the Siege.
 
So we know from GI that George Washington plays a significant role in the game (as he would have to considering the era) and that you as the player will interact with him in some fashion. You point out that he was a Templar (something I was not aware of) and that he wasn't exactly the superhero he is thought to be today. Considering these aspects, what role do you see him playing in the game? I realize that you beat the crap out of an evil Pope in ACII so maybe nothing is out of bounds but I just don't see George Washington being portrayed as an antagonist in the game. But I suppose the fact that the game is being developed by non-American studios could mean that everything won't be shown through a Red, White & Blue filter.
 

Amir0x

Banned
So we know from GI that George Washington plays a significant role in the game (as he would have to considering the era) and that you as the player will interact with him in some fashion. You point out that he was a Templar (something I was not aware of) and that he wasn't exactly the superhero he is thought to be today. Considering these aspects, what role do you see him playing in the game? I realize that you beat the crap out of an evil Pope in ACII so maybe nothing is out of bounds but I just don't see George Washington being portrayed as an antagonist in the game. But I suppose the fact that the game is being developed by non-American studios could mean that everything won't be shown through a Red, White & Blue filter.

To be fair, Pope Alexander VI is universally reviled and considered one of the worst Pope's in history... so that's a bit different.

Washington himself wasn't a -bad- person by the standards of the time he came from. He owned slaves, certainly (I'm particularly fond of William Lee, a slave who remained by Washington's side throughout the war, who was so prolific a horse rider he might have well been considered one of the best of his time were it not for his slavery. Washington's grandson even waxed poetic about his riding skills. William Lee was also the only slave freed outright in Washington's will). He later seemed to settle on a position that was something like "I think slavery is probably wrong, but the institutions are in place and it is not yet time to undo them."

Washington's truly outstanding quality is his amazing ability to seem always as if he was humble and without regard for advancement, even though he was obscenely ambitious and always was. He always made others feel as though they were not his lessers. He also was the rare leader who was great at taking advice and deferring to people he felt had better ideas than he. This led many to feel like they owed him favors, since he was always so deferential to the thoughts of others. This ended up being a great quality by the end of the Revolutionary War, although there is much scholarly debate about how much of it was his own skill and how much of it was the advantage of France finally truly coming into the war with their full might.

george-washington-freemason.jpg


I have a feeling that George Washington in Assassin's Creed 3 will not be an antagonist. I think he will perhaps maybe even be an informant for the assassins or maybe start as a Templar and have a change of heart. It's hard to say how they're going to play it.

One thing we do know is that at some point, George Washington will obtain a piece of eden. If you remember one of Subject 16's puzzles, we located a piece of eden hidden in Washington's pocket in this photo:

George-Washington-Freemason-Hidden-Hand.jpg


So does Connor find a piece of eden and leave it to Washington after the war for safe keeping? Impossible to tell. Speculation upon speculation...
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
i don't really understand why a lot of native americans fought on the british side

did they think they would win and didn't want to be caught out fighting for the losing side or what?
 

Loxley

Member
Ubi said we'll be seeing things like the Great Fire of New York City...man dis game.

I wonder if Lafayette will come into play at all.
 

ZZMitch

Member
i don't really understand why a lot of native americans fought on the british side

did they think they would win and didn't want to be caught out fighting for the losing side or what?

Great Britain said they would protect them from settlers and give them their own land etc. I believe.
 

Dennis

Banned
IMPORTANT BRITISH PLAYER

Banastre Tarleton

He is today probably best remembered for his military service during the American War of Independence. He became the focal point of a propaganda campaign claiming that he had fired upon surrendering Continental Army troops at the Battle of Waxhaws. In a publication The Green Dragoon: The Lives of Banastre Tarleton and Mary Robinson by Robert D. Bass (published in 1952) he was given the nickname "Bloody Ban" and The Butcher, which has carried over into popular culture as being his nickname of the day.

He was hailed by the Loyalists and British as an outstanding leader of light cavalry, and was praised for his tactical prowess and resolve, even against superior numbers.

 
Great Britain said they would protect them from settlers and give them their own land etc. I believe.

One of the reasons the Colonists were miffed with the British government was that they had been told not to expand westwards, in order to avoid potential further conflict with the Native Americans.
 

Ominym

Banned
Honestly, all I could consider when I heard about this timeline was some sort of templar on templar sect war. As in, say the American leadership split from the English due to conflicts in ideology, but more so than what is known. I could see them panning out the Freemasons as a templar sect with different ideals at war with the English old order. And the Assassins capitalizing on the chaos.

Similar to this idea, would be that if I remember correctly, John Wilkes Booth was an Assassin and Lincoln was painted as a templar or at least a sympathizer. So it isn't out of the question to consider American templars.
 
I think ultimately, Connor's relationship with Washington will mirror the relationship between Baldwin and Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven. Sorta makes sense if ultimately Washington was willing to give up and based on what people's accounts of him are. At least, I'm pretty sure that's the movie I'm thinking about.

One of the reasons the Colonists were miffed with the British government was that they had been told not to expand westwards, in order to avoid potential further conflict with the Native Americans.

Really? Didn't know that.
 

rataven

Member
Nice, Ami. This is appreciated; my American Rev history lessons happened loooong ago, and while it's always been my personal favorite era in US history for study, I'm admittedly rusty with remembering the timeline of events and the roles of the key players.

Any good recommended reading outside of the OP? I remember there were some interesting, oft untold stories in A People's History that I may revisit, and I nabbed Benjamin Franklin: An American Life for e-reading. Also have John Adams queued up in Nexflix. This probably covers a good portion of the era, but if there's anything else essential, I'd be interested in checking it out.
 

Adam Prime

hates soccer, is Mexican
I LOVE American Rev history. AC3 has totally sold me, I am all in when this game drops. This is probably going to be the only game I purchase in 2012.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I hope the "Benjamin Franklin was a British spy" theory gets used in the game.

Considering the exhaustive research that has been done to put this theory to rest, I hope this game doesn't try to revisit it. I know it's fiction but I feel enough of these guys lives are mythologized without requiring to bring even more silliness into the mix.

Benjamin Franklin's son, however, was known to have spied on him for the British, which is a far more interesting dynamic imo.

The schism between Benjamin Franklin and his son is legendary as his son was a vehement loyalist and Franklin could never persuade him. They remained estranged from each other for the rest of their life - Franklin even ignoring him in his will - and Franklin was a huge dick as he actively tried for his whole life to turn Temple Franklin, his grandson, against his own father. Temple never quite turned against his Dad completely, but he remained extremely loyal to Benjamin Franklin and in fact it was Ben who basically raised him. Even when Benjamin Franklin's son was imprisoned as a loyalist, he did nothing to speak on his behalf and get him released (which given his clout, would have been possible). Even Temple begging couldn't get him to do it :p

IMPORTANT BRITISH PLAYER

Banastre Tarleton

He is today probably best remembered for his military service during the American War of Independence. He became the focal point of a propaganda campaign claiming that he had fired upon surrendering Continental Army troops at the Battle of Waxhaws. In a publication The Green Dragoon: The Lives of Banastre Tarleton and Mary Robinson by Robert D. Bass (published in 1952) he was given the nickname "Bloody Ban" and The Butcher, which has carried over into popular culture as being his nickname of the day.

He was hailed by the Loyalists and British as an outstanding leader of light cavalry, and was praised for his tactical prowess and resolve, even against superior numbers.

*image*

Great character, but wouldn't it be difficult to implement him in a meaningful fashion? What he is famous for - The Massacre of Waxhaws - took place in Lancaster, South Carolina, which is apparently out of the sphere of where this game takes place. Unless it's one of those AC2/Brotherhood/Rev type excursions where you take a mission that temporarily takes you out of your primary location to somewhere distant.

Ubi said we'll be seeing things like the Great Fire of New York City...man dis game.

I wonder if Lafayette will come into play at all.

Despite my reservations about the AC gameplay being fun in this type of world, I still cannot wait to see how they depict the various historical milestones of the Revolutionary War. The well of potential historical moments is so vast it almost makes my mouth water.

Honestly, all I could consider when I heard about this timeline was some sort of templar on templar sect war. As in, say the American leadership split from the English due to conflicts in ideology, but more so than what is known. I could see them panning out the Freemasons as a templar sect with different ideals at war with the English old order. And the Assassins capitalizing on the chaos.

Similar to this idea, would be that if I remember correctly, John Wilkes Booth was an Assassin and Lincoln was painted as a templar or at least a sympathizer. So it isn't out of the question to consider American templars.

It would be interesting to see a schism begin in this time. I only wonder who precisely would end up on what side. Things are so muddy during the Revolutionary War, brothers turn against brothers, fathers against sons, that it is ripe for tons of that sort of interesting dynamic.

I think ultimately, Connor's relationship with Washington will mirror the relationship between Baldwin and Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven. Sorta makes sense if ultimately Washington was willing to give up and based on what people's accounts of him are. At least, I'm pretty sure that's the movie I'm thinking about.

The primary reason I believe George Washington will be portrayed as a protagonist for sure is the historical context. I believe Connor will find a piece of Eden and leave it in the charge of Washington. But more importantly, as we know from history, Washington surprised everyone by willingly giving up power and retiring to Mount Vernon after he was president. At the time, there was no necessary dictate saying this must be the case and he could have well been King of America if he wanted, given the influence he wielded.

The fact that he would willingly give up such vast power suggests to me he could not possibly sympathize with the Templars, who believe the world needs to be controlled.

Ratavan said:
Any good recommended reading outside of the OP? I remember there were some interesting, oft untold stories in A People's History that I may revisit, and I nabbed Benjamin Franklin: An American Life for e-reading. Also have John Adams queued up in Nexflix. This probably covers a good portion of the era, but if there's anything else essential, I'd be interested in checking it out.

Interestingly enough, I received a PM on this very subject and my response will serve to be a good starter guide as any I suspect...

_____________________________

As it relates to the complexity of the war, a great book to start would be The Glorious Cause: The American Revolution, 1763-1789. It paints a far more even handed picture of both sides, showing the negative and positive about the American and British sides.

A great overview of one of the most important years in the Revolution, when it was a very real chance that the Americans would lose (I won't reveal how close we were to being annihilated, as it is pretty shocking), is the book 1776 by David G. McCullough.

One of my favorite autobiographies about a founding father is Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson. It paints the truth behind the myth and allows you to understand the multifaceted (and sometimes contradictory) nature of our founding fathers. Benjamin Franklin's own biography, by the way, written by himself throughout his life, is also still startlingly relevant and considered a groundbreaking moment in biographical history all by itself... so if you really get deep, hit it up.

Revolutionary Characters: What Made the Founders Different is a unique book in the spectrum of revolutionary war history as it sort of goes over the character of the founding fathers, rather than their accomplishments necessarily. It is an intimate portrayal, well sourced, and really humanizes the people involved. And it's a quick read.

Another one that goes through Revolutionary War and beyond is John Adams by David G. McCullough. It shows the complex relationships between the founding fathers and covers aspects of his personality that are simultaneously endearing and enraging. But it also helps you understand why these were some of the right people at the right time.
 
I just read a bit about Thomas Pain and I really hope he´s a major player in the game. I had no idea how quickly he fell out of favor (though most of that is out of the timeline).
 

Amir0x

Banned
I LOVE American Rev history. AC3 has totally sold me, I am all in when this game drops. This is probably going to be the only game I purchase in 2012.

Yeah I'm definitely excited about the atmospheric possibilities of being set in the Revolutionary War. It's going to be interesting to see just how much creative license they take. I am most curious about how they will handle slavery. Early American history without slavery seems almost too sanitized.

I just read a bit about Thomas Pain and I really hope he´s a major player in the game. I had no idea how quickly he fell out of favor (though most of that is out of the timeline).

Yeah, Thomas Paine is a really great figure. There are two books on his life I've read, and both are pretty good.

Thomas Paine: Enlightenment, Revolution, and the Birth of Modern Nations is a fantastic look at his life, and his influence long after he died. It's quite enlightening.

Christopher Hitchens of all people wrote a really good piece of work on his life, called Thomas Paine's Rights of Man: A Biography. Christopher Hitchens, for all his faults, is really good at painting a vivid picture of events and how they impact our lives even today, and so it's an easy ready. A little poor on the sourcing end of things, but all in all worth a pick up.
 

Blu10

Member
Living in Richmond, VA, I'd love to see my town show up in this game, but other than the give me liberty or give me death speach...I don't think much happened here until the civil war.

As for an american point of view, it doesn't really matter to me if they show the founding fathers in an unflatering light... but I would like to see Washington's teeth all fucked up in the game.

I also think they will have an extremely hard time showing slaves in this game without a major backlash.
 

eagle884

Neo Member
I'm just curious what the voice actors will sound like. They said they had consulted expects, so it should be interesting.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Living in Richmond, VA, I'd love to see my town show up in this game, but other than the give me liberty or give me death speach...I don't think much happened here until the civil war.

Dude, lots of shit happened in Virginia during the Revolutionary War. The bulk occurred starting in 1781, and Washington and the Continental Army only campaigned at the very end there, but there were many important battles. The Battle of Petersburg and Great Bridge.


And dude, The Battle of Yorktown... the battle that literally ended the Revolutionary War. We're talking about Washington's Army marching from Williamsburg and sieging Cornwallis, and causing the demise of the British hopes in America.

To say nothing happened in Virginia is a little wrong. Only the third most important battle of the entire war happened in Virginia ;)

As for an american point of view, it doesn't really matter to me if they show the founding fathers in an unflatering light... but I would like to see Washington's teeth all fucked up in the game.

I also think they will have an extremely hard time showing slaves in this game without a major backlash.

I don't know why there'd be a backlash though. Wouldn't whitewashing the period of time have a bigger backlash? The Help got a backlash like that and that's a movie that depicted some level of racism even!
 

Muzzy

Member
This is one of the reasons I like the Assassin's Creed franchise, it brings interesting read and discussion.

I am most curious about how they will handle slavery. Early American history without slavery seems almost too sanitized.

I am also curious about that.

Since France has a part in this, do you think we can expect to see Jean-Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, count de Rochambeau? Though he was the commander-in-chief during the battle of Yorktown, he's also been at New York with Washington prior to the surrender of Cornwallis.
 

Blu10

Member
Dude, lots of shit happened in Virginia during the Revolutionary War. The bulk occurred starting in 1781, and Washington and the Continental Army only campaigned at the very end there, but there were many important battles. The Battle of Petersburg and Great Bridge.


And dude, The Battle of Yorktown... the battle that literally ended the Revolutionary War. We're talking about Washington's Army marching from Williamsburg and sieging Cornwallis, and causing the demise of the British hopes in America.

To say nothing happened in Virginia is a little wrong. Only the third most important battle of the entire war happened in Virginia ;)



I don't know why there'd be a backlash though. Wouldn't whitewashing the period of time have a bigger backlash? The Help got a backlash like that and that's a movie that depicted some level of racism even!

Got it after the first time ;) but as for VA, yeah a ton of stuff happened here... but I was only refering to my town... which as it got burned to the ground during the civil war, there is not a lot of detail on it's layout during that time period.

And as for blacklash... I honestly think they are fucked either way they look at it. Portray it as it is and get pounded. White wash it, and doubly so... just very touchy for Americans.
 
The primary reason I believe George Washington will be portrayed as a protagonist for sure is the historical context. I believe Connor will find a piece of Eden and leave it in the charge of Washington. But more importantly, as we know from history, Washington surprised everyone by willingly giving up power and retiring to Mount Vernon after he was president. At the time, there was no necessary dictate saying this must be the case and he could have well been King of America if he wanted, given the influence he wielded.

The fact that he would willingly give up such vast power suggests to me he could not possibly sympathize with the Templars, who believe the world needs to be controlled.

I'm thinking that he'll start out on the side of Templars, believing that humanity needs to be controlled for their own good, but as the war goes on, his views will change

I'm just curious what the voice actors will sound like. They said they had consulted expects, so it should be interesting.

One thing that Ubi's gotten right so far is the casting. I think just about all of the characters have had great voice acting across the board.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Got it after the first time ;) but as for VA, yeah a ton of stuff happened here... but I was only refering to my town... which as it got burned to the ground during the civil war, there is not a lot of detail on it's layout during that time period.

And as for blacklash... I honestly think they are fucked either way they look at it. Portray it as it is and get pounded. White wash it, and doubly so... just very touchy for Americans.

yeah there was some weird database error I kept getting and it must have registered as three attempts to post this, crazy lol

Ah yeah Richmond itself is kind of FUBAR. I dunno, i know it's tough, but I think it would be understandable to portray slaves in some form. I don't know if they should show slave beatings or auctions, but slaves themselves should be there...

Muzzy said:
Since France has a part in this, do you think we can expect to see Jean-Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, count de Rochambeau? Though he was the commander-in-chief during the battle of Yorktown, he's also been at New York with Washington prior to the surrender of Cornwallis.

It's certainly possible that there will be a French presence. There was French emissaries visiting America during certain points during the war too, so they can play around with that.

Maybe we can go on an excursion with John Paul Jones, and participate in the famous naval battle of USS Bonhomme Richard vs. HMS Serapis. That's the legendary naval battle where after his ship started taking on water and the Serapis ordered them to surrender, he replied "I have not yet begun to fight!"

Ultimately he won the fight. Would be amazing :D
 

Amir0x

Banned
Also my god they have to find some way to fit Lord Sandwich, 4th Earl of Sandwich, into the game. I just want to say "Hither to, Lord Sandwich, and fix me thine lunch!"
 

Blu10

Member
Ah yeah Richmond itself is kind of FUBAR. I dunno, i know it's tough, but I think it would be understandable to portray slaves in some form. I don't know if they should show slave beatings or auctions, but slaves themselves should be there...



It's certainly possible that there will be a French presence. There was French emissaries visiting America during certain points during the war too, so they can play around with that.

Maybe we can go on an excursion with John Paul Jones, and participate in the famous naval battle of USS Bonhomme Richard vs. HMS Serapis. That's the legendary naval battle where after his ship started taking on water and the Serapis ordered them to surrender, he replied "I have not yet begun to fight!"

Ultimately he won the fight. Would be amazing :D

I agree. In order to accurately depict the time they would have to show them, and for fucks sake we beat down the pope. Personally I'd like to see them as an integral part of the story.

There was so much going on in this time frame... so much intrige. I think the story itself could be awesome. Perhaps even the assasins are with the British, and they lose.
 
Also my god they have to find some way to fit Lord Sandwich, 4th Earl of Sandwich, into the game. I just want to say "Hither to, Lord Sandwich, and fix me thine lunch!"

Ubisoft will make a Cooking Mama knock-off where you use the animus to travel into the dna memories of the past greatest chefs.
 

Jonnyram

Member
I know many people on another board who are about to raise hell. They'll be enraged if the Americans aren't presented as the good guy heroes and the British as evil.
Surely it's gonna be a bit of both. British would be offended if it's just Americans killing British too.
Interesting to have a game so close to home though, instead of the usual Middle East bullshit.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Surely it's gonna be a bit of both. British would be offended if it's just Americans killing British too.
Interesting to have a game so close to home though, instead of the usual Middle East bullshit.

the colonists burn down connors mohawk village right at the start, so you know it's going to be shades of gray

I agree. In order to accurately depict the time they would have to show them, and for fucks sake we beat down the pope. Personally I'd like to see them as an integral part of the story.

There was so much going on in this time frame... so much intrige. I think the story itself could be awesome. Perhaps even the assasins are with the British, and they lose.


yeah although the pope in question was fucked up irl :p

I can't wait to soak in the atmosphere
 
One thing's for sure: it'll be very interesting to see what they do with the story and the characters. I get the feeling a lot of American patriots could be pissed if their 'founding fathers' are depicted as evil Templars.

Oh man, shitstorm ready right here. I don't belive they will portray the Founding Fathers in any negative light, not in AAA game going for mass appeal. But that will make them kinda destroy their own timeline.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oh man, shitstorm ready right here. I don't belive they will portray the Founding Fathers in any negative light, not in AAA game going for mass appeal. But that will make them kinda destroy their own timeline.

i don't understand why you think this. They've never shown particular qualms in showing historical figures in negative light, and this game opens with the colonists destroying an Indian village mercilessly...
 

Dennis

Banned
Great character, but wouldn't it be difficult to implement him in a meaningful fashion? What he is famous for - The Massacre of Waxhaws - took place in Lancaster, South Carolina, which is apparently out of the sphere of where this game takes place. Unless it's one of those AC2/Brotherhood/Rev type excursions where you take a mission that temporarily takes you out of your primary location to somewhere distant.

I really don't think they will feel constrained at all by going with such a small historical deviancy.

They will just put him up north.
 
i don't understand why you think this. They've never shown particular qualms in showing historical figures in negative light, and this game opens with the colonists destroying an Indian village mercilessly...

Well, in my opinion this is different. How many contemporary citizens of Italy feel much connection to Italian princes and nobility of the Middle Ages?

I'm not an American, however I always assumed they feel strongly about their history, esp. Revolutionary War, when US became a country. Founding Fathers were essential in that. Now you have a game portraying some of them as Templars, who in reality want to control the world?

As for Indian village - violence and cruelty towards Native Americans is well-documented. Isn't there even Native American month in the US (I know February is Black Culture month)?
 

massoluk

Banned
I think you missed Aaron Burr.
The Assassin's Creed Team could just pull some plot point from Burr the novel, turned him into your allies against some of the Templar founding fathers (if they are Templar).
 
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