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Baldur's Gate 3 yet again proves that JRPGs have a lot to learn from CRPGs
- Thread starter 64bitmodels
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Radical Dreamer
Member
Yet again this retarded thread comparing apples to oranges...
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
JRPG stands for joke of a role playing game. I don’t care about the genre but a lot of people do. I’d say let it be as it is just don’t call it a role playing game when it clearly isn’t. If people love it, why change it?
DeltaPolarBear
Member
JRPG is still a roleplaying game, you just get given your role like being the star of a stage play. The story is set, if you are MacBeth you STAY MacBeth.
Western RPGs are (trying to be) Improv Theatre. Where every performance is different and people make things up on the fly.
Both are acting, and you don't get to say one is not.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
By this definition Mario 64 is an RPG.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Story choice is overrated
Keep it out of my JRPGs please
Keep it out of my JRPGs please
vaibhavpisal
Member
What’s going to be better than Chrono Trigger? Nothing. That’s why.
Making Chrono Trigger level JRPG is a lost art at this point.
If they will make those, there will be no complaining at all.
Kataploom
Gold Member
No thanks. It's ok if people like choices and different endings or paths or whatever but that's one thing that really REALLY puts me off on some games.
I hate story taking different paths depending on choices, the only way I may like it is if it's like Sekiro, I'm yet to play the shorter path but the game is so good and "cheese-able" with pure skills that it doesn't feel like a hassle to go through again and as it's only two paths, it doesn't make me feel like I'm losing on a lot by making one of another decision.
What some here don't like from jrpgs is probably what jrpgs players like from them so I'd rather they don't change to appeal western audiences, Final Fantasy did so and we got 13.
I hate story taking different paths depending on choices, the only way I may like it is if it's like Sekiro, I'm yet to play the shorter path but the game is so good and "cheese-able" with pure skills that it doesn't feel like a hassle to go through again and as it's only two paths, it doesn't make me feel like I'm losing on a lot by making one of another decision.
What some here don't like from jrpgs is probably what jrpgs players like from them so I'd rather they don't change to appeal western audiences, Final Fantasy did so and we got 13.
Hudo
Member
I mean, this is also the forum where some retards started to treat Baldur's Gate 3 as a "Playstation exclusive" and then went on how it will be better than Starfield. I am still impressed by that level of reaching.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It wasn't when it came out, but ironically it is NOW. What with the popularity of fake leveling in western RPGs, it is now fine for the West to have a game where the characer doesn't get stronger and still called an RPG by simply faking the stat increases.
Kataploom
Gold Member
We didn't have a proper camera and control for 3D third person games at the time, the ones we had were basic or completely shit so everyone switched to free roaming navigation once they saw it on SM64, it's a different story since we DO want jrpgs to be as they are.
I think they're not your thing anymore, the genre evolves, DQ is the only franchise with very old-school gameplay and they carry it with pride since basically nobody else make that type of jrpgs anymore... Even Xenoblade 1 was a complete flip to the jrpgs formula and then Xenoblade 2 made another flip.
I just think that you don't see the evolution in the genre because the changes don't fit your tastes anymore, so you don't see them as evolution.
BTW
Danjin44
I'm loving your avatar bro, I've been caught in a hype train for one piece since 1071 and can't stop!
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Azurro
Banned
64bitmodels
yup, so you are saying that from now on every JRPG should include man bear sex? 
I love JRPGs how they are, let them be. I much prefer a linear story where I care about the characters rather than choices where the narrative is not priority no. 1.
CoreyFlawless
Member
Huh? I thought this what ppl wanna since morrowind. Also, I never really even thought as jrpg have open choices like them.
tomato shrub
Member
JRPGs, especially from Square, desperately need player agency back.
Doesn't mean they have to play like CRPGs. They can/should still be linear stories, but they also need to feel like adventures. Right now they don't. Literally every task outside combat in FF16 is solved with "hold stick towards icon". Zero thinking required, zero sense of wonder. Exploration was one of the strong suits of JRPGs and they took it all out to make it casual friendly. Fuck that. Look at BG3 but also look at Elden Ring - people want demanding RPG experiences, one way or the other.
Doesn't mean they have to play like CRPGs. They can/should still be linear stories, but they also need to feel like adventures. Right now they don't. Literally every task outside combat in FF16 is solved with "hold stick towards icon". Zero thinking required, zero sense of wonder. Exploration was one of the strong suits of JRPGs and they took it all out to make it casual friendly. Fuck that. Look at BG3 but also look at Elden Ring - people want demanding RPG experiences, one way or the other.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
Back when PS1 was new, all its exclusives were accidental as the same games can't run on Nintendo hardware. They were exclusives THEN, they are exclusives NOW. The fact that Sony didn't pay for the privilege doesn't change that.
For a period of time nearly all 3rd party games run on both Xbox and Playstation hardware, because they could. Now the hardware differentiation caused by Series S is re-making the split once again. This is just reality of how console gaming works.
Until proven otherwise, BG3 is a PS exclusive due to Xbox hardware limitations. This was what exclusives used to mean. You couldn't run Sonic on SNES even if you wanted to. (Someone ported a Sonic level to SNES but only after halving the sprite sizes.)
Hudo
Member
Dude, calm down.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I am just stating facts on the ground. i am not sure why you need to fabricate the premise that i was somehow over-reacting.
EDIT: In any case, writing lengthy responses is my way of having fun. Something that means responding to posts that might have been light hearted and/or sarcastic.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Wait a minute, the dialogue options appears only when you steal an item from a child, then proceed with the conversation? Can you influence a lot of things like that?
Guilty_AI
Member
If you dont steal from the child, the dialogue still plays but you dont get the option to give back the pendant. And yes, you can influence tons of things.
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Dr. Suchong
Member
I'd be open to a smattering of crpg elements in jrpgs, but no more than that as I'm certain some of the complexities of crpgs would alienate core jrpg fans.
Not to say jrpgs are ultimately simplistic, but crpgs are definitely a wake up call when you come to play one off the back of a jrpg, thinking it'll be a smooth transition because you could junction materia well or something.
Not to say jrpgs are ultimately simplistic, but crpgs are definitely a wake up call when you come to play one off the back of a jrpg, thinking it'll be a smooth transition because you could junction materia well or something.
darrylgorn
Member
Nah, the problem isn't freedom there, it's the fact that every game has to be some anime shit.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
What "every"?
Where are you buying your games anyway? Android store?
Cyberpunkd
Member
He is right. jRPGs are linked to Japanese culture and cultural tropes. Women behave in a way that mimics idols, men are brooding and “dark”.
Hudo
Member
Because your post read like you were agitated. BG3 is not an exclusive, no matter how much some Sony-fans want it to be, just because it's not out on Xbox on the same day. And then to compare it to Starfield, which is a completely different type of game, is just sad. And that's what I was making fun of. All of this console wars bullshit is seemingly getting even more retarded than it has been before.
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hououinkyouma00
Member
For the most part keep WRPG and CRPG shit out of my JRPGs. The things that define a W/CRPG DO NOT define a JRPG. They are different genres and that's fine. The audiences may overlap but are different and the people that play JRPGs play them for different reasons then people that play W/CRPGs play them for.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
There is currently no release date for BG3 on Xbox. That makes it an exclusive by every metric. It might end up being a timed exclusive, but it still is exclusive. As i said, historically exclusives were not bought directly but was caused by hardware differences. Robocop was available in many consoles but they were all different to each one as separate games, not comparable with each other.
Thus just because Sony didn't purchase LEGAL exclusivity, doesn't make the game not an exclusive. It just simply became a DE-FACTO exclusive, due to hardware issues. Final Fantasy 7 can't run on SNES, so it is on Playstation as de-facto-exclusive. And Playstation didn't BUY FF7 exclusivity. (They did for the remake but that is a separate issue.)
Senua
Member
It's always been this retarded, tribalism turns people into apes
Do you know what exclusive means?
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
If you know something i don't, then tell me.
Because currently there is no release date for BG3 on Xbox Series. That makes it console exclusive to Playstation. it might come out on Xbox later on, but it would not change the exclusivity until then.
if you think exclusivity only meant legally enforced paid exclusivity or first party exclusivity, you are probably too young to remember a time when consoles are not just fixed hardware PCs.
darrylgorn
Member
Okay, to be fair, LOTR: Third Age exists.
Hudo
Member
I am playing BG3 right now on a platform that is not Playstation. How is that making it exclusive "by every metric"?.
You know what. Fine. Have it your way. I'm not getting into an argument over this. If it makes you feel better, then yes, BG3 is only available on Playstation.
Hudo
Member
That was the FFX clone, right? I vaguely remember it. Was it a side story that ran parallel to the Fellowship?
Senua
Member
That's actually accurate yes, and a term fanboys adore. "it's still exclusive if we put this asterisk on it"
Shite.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
K.
also
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Now if you are hoping Square Enix themselves will make another Chrono Trigger the answer is probably no since all Squaresoft Staff is long gone along with the OG writers they used to have.
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NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
As a fan of both CRPG and JRPGs, I think they both do different things and I'm okay with them being different.
Mozzarella
Member
I dont think JRPGs have to learn from games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Divinity OS2, but i do agree that JRPGs need some spice, but maybe im biased as i always preferred RPGs to JRPGs.
I dont know i just think the term JRPG is stupid, maybe we can call them all RPGs instead?
So RPGs have a lot to learn from Larian?
Thats better?
I think it is.
Anyway i think a lot of JRPGs suffer from the bloat problem, they get produced at much higher pace, compare that with RPGs elsewhere, they tend to get released at much slower pace, maybe 1 or 2, 3 at best each year, sometimes none, like in 2022.
JRPGs on the other hand are releasing like hot cakes, each year you have 5+ at least, and there is a lot of franchises that keeps doing sequels over and over, compare Final Fantasy with Elder Scrolls or Dragon Quest with Fallout, or Pokemon with Dragon Age, its ridiculous.
Baldur's Gate 3 took many years and work to be done, that is not to say that JRPGs should be making a game like BG3, no but they should be gathering their best talents at RPG focused studios and release one really good one each few years instead of 5 mediocre ones each year.
Also when i mentioned need more spice i meant the gameplay and the quest design, their mechanics are still stuck with the basics in the 90s, the evolution of the genre mainly comes from the action games, some people here point out that they keep crpgs for story choices, well i disagree, i definitely think crpgs like Divinity or BG3 have the superior gameplay too, same goes for games like New Vegas.
To me JRPGs are still the same game design wise, but they are worse writing wise, thats about it, they have lost their charm when it comes to making memorable journeys with good writing like Suikoden 2, most of the good ones recently are remasters like Tactics Ogre.
RPGs are also declining, so lets not just put this on JRPGs, Outer Worlds, Cyberpunk, Fallout 4, and the simplification of RPG mechanics are also bad, DA Inquisition is mediocre too. Like even when it comes to RPGs great ones are still rare these days. I guess the fact that fewer of them release hides their status is to their advantage.
So tldr, JRPGs dont need to become like any other genre, just stick to your guns, spice things up a bit so players feel refreshing, less quantity more quality, for the love of god less 100+ meaningless content grind games, more Chrono Trigger pace games. And you are good to go.
For RPGs its more complicated, so i'll write that some other time if the opportunity arise, but their problems and what they need to work on imo is wholly different.
I dont know i just think the term JRPG is stupid, maybe we can call them all RPGs instead?
So RPGs have a lot to learn from Larian?
Thats better?
I think it is.
Anyway i think a lot of JRPGs suffer from the bloat problem, they get produced at much higher pace, compare that with RPGs elsewhere, they tend to get released at much slower pace, maybe 1 or 2, 3 at best each year, sometimes none, like in 2022.
JRPGs on the other hand are releasing like hot cakes, each year you have 5+ at least, and there is a lot of franchises that keeps doing sequels over and over, compare Final Fantasy with Elder Scrolls or Dragon Quest with Fallout, or Pokemon with Dragon Age, its ridiculous.
Baldur's Gate 3 took many years and work to be done, that is not to say that JRPGs should be making a game like BG3, no but they should be gathering their best talents at RPG focused studios and release one really good one each few years instead of 5 mediocre ones each year.
Also when i mentioned need more spice i meant the gameplay and the quest design, their mechanics are still stuck with the basics in the 90s, the evolution of the genre mainly comes from the action games, some people here point out that they keep crpgs for story choices, well i disagree, i definitely think crpgs like Divinity or BG3 have the superior gameplay too, same goes for games like New Vegas.
To me JRPGs are still the same game design wise, but they are worse writing wise, thats about it, they have lost their charm when it comes to making memorable journeys with good writing like Suikoden 2, most of the good ones recently are remasters like Tactics Ogre.
RPGs are also declining, so lets not just put this on JRPGs, Outer Worlds, Cyberpunk, Fallout 4, and the simplification of RPG mechanics are also bad, DA Inquisition is mediocre too. Like even when it comes to RPGs great ones are still rare these days. I guess the fact that fewer of them release hides their status is to their advantage.
So tldr, JRPGs dont need to become like any other genre, just stick to your guns, spice things up a bit so players feel refreshing, less quantity more quality, for the love of god less 100+ meaningless content grind games, more Chrono Trigger pace games. And you are good to go.
For RPGs its more complicated, so i'll write that some other time if the opportunity arise, but their problems and what they need to work on imo is wholly different.
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