Braag
Member
Fallout 4 had an option for a silent protag?
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Bethesda confirms Starfield will have a silent protagonist
- Thread starter AlexxKidd
- Start date
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Discussion with people who prefer VO is pointless. They will never get it.
It's not Guardians of the Galaxy FFS.
It's not Guardians of the Galaxy FFS.
Craig of War
Banned
Mods yes
Kssio_Aug
Member
I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Except if they eventually added it with a patch...
But there is even a mod for that: Silent Protagonist.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
And the world will be a better place for that.
But quick gotta spin this as a negative somehow.
But quick gotta spin this as a negative somehow.
Magic Carpet
Member
Aloy was always talking to herself.
Batiman
Banned
Was just thinking this lol. One of the worst parts of that game.
Astral Dog
Member
No big deal either way
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BusierDonkey
Member
I still can't immerse myself as being the character I create if the character annunciates differently than me. I'd much rather read my dialogue options quickly and make my choices than have a voice actor or actors that don't match my demeanor.
Honestly I tend to read the NPC dialogue before they get a couple words in and skip it. In some ways I wouldn't mind shutting off NPC voices entirely, it would save me dozens of hours in a full playthrough not having to wait for spoken lines I can read at a glance.
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Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I'm pretty sure your original post said something like 'quite fitting for such a boring game'. Why a sudden change of heart?
Barakov
Gold Member
Kinda assumed it would but it's nice to have it confirmed.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
This is the right answer. When their goal in FO4 was to tell the tale of a specific person on a specific overall quest, sure, it worked in the context they wanted it to. Which was fine for what Bethesda was looking to create, but for the gamers out there that wanted their own story to be told it was a major letdown. The silent protag is perfect for those gamers, which lets be real is the vast majority of gamers that enjoyed Oblivion and Skyrim, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, etc.
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synchronicity
Gold Member
A silent protagonist just makes sense for an open-world/galaxy rpg where there's so much customization/personalization.
Plus the quality of voice acting is generally wretched across gaming - with some exceptions. Although I'm incredibly sensitive to voice work and its authenticity or lack thereof.
In Bethesda rpgs, I want to be who ***I*** want to be, and that sensation would be diminished with the personality that comes attached to a voiced character. (for me)
Plus the quality of voice acting is generally wretched across gaming - with some exceptions. Although I'm incredibly sensitive to voice work and its authenticity or lack thereof.
In Bethesda rpgs, I want to be who ***I*** want to be, and that sensation would be diminished with the personality that comes attached to a voiced character. (for me)
March Climber
Member
I understand what you mean but I can't agree. If you really read between the lines of Bethesda RPG dialogue(specifically most of their games before New Vegas and Skyrim) and ESO, you're told what you need to be told in a short amount of words, and the rest feels like a writer decided to pad it out to meet some sort of word quota for an essay paper. Only Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas(which isn't even their game) had a really good dialogue length balance(Fallout 3 and 4 were just okay at it), but the rest of their catalogue made me want to press the skip dialogue button way too often after the first paragraph. There's an art to dialogue lengths that they came really close to mastering. I personally feel going backwards to please older hardcore fans isn't the right call.
Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
Then why everyone complain that Pokémon protagonist is silent every damn time there is a Pokémon showing?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Essay that's an exaggeration. You choose to keep them talking if you want more information. Well, we'll just disagree on that dialog part because the information I gleamed from Skyrim and Oblivion conversations was always stuff I enjoyed and I never skipped it.
Craig of War
Banned
You really comparing people want voice protag in Pokemon game to a Bethesda RPG game wtf
Totally different demographics of gamers lol
Talk about out of context
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Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
I just want to understand the difference, because in one you roleplay as the X person you have created in an FPS game and in the other you roleplay as a Pokémon master with an X character you have created in give or take RPG. I don't see the difference in the voice options. Why the one must not have it to be good and the other must have it to be better when in both you roleplay as a character you created (alas with limitations in Pokémon case)
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I'm really confused... FO4 had MUCH bigger issues than a voiced protagonist (that frankly, I never even noticed).
Voiced protagonists aren't inherently an issue at all. Deus Ex and DE: Mankind Divided did a fantastic job.
So was the issue with FO4 the actual voice actor? I don't get it.
Craig of War
Banned
Does pokemon have character creation where you can make the character look however you want?
Also does it have background and traits?
How about a Skill Tree?
If the answer is not all of the above it not a real RPG
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Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
In my opinion I think both apply for RPG. Anyway I like silent protagonist than a voice that have strange voice tone in an inappropriate situation. I had just a question and wanted another opinion.
Braag
Member
I get what you're getting at but you chose like the worst examples lol
Sam Witwer and Jonah Scott are like the least frat boyish voice actors.
Especially Sam who loves to stream XCOM 2 of all games on twitch and is a huge Star Wars nerd.
Craig of War
Banned
I answer your question them games that pretend to be RPG with basic RPG mechanics are not real full blown RPG
They are more an action adventure game
lem0n
Member
I didn't say it was the issue, I said it was one of the issues I had with it.
Voiced protagonists are a welcome addition... when the game is built from the start as a game that revolves around said character. For instance, in Mass Effect you play as Commander Shepard. Shepard is voiced beautifully- how they react with the worlds, friends, love interests, enemies etc is a huge part of what makes those games so brilliant. Fallout (pre-FO4), on the other hand, you start with a silent custom character with a basic back story and send them out to play in the world. Sounds similar to Mass Effect, of course, but in Fallout you are able to come up with your own canon and play along the way you want. With this sort of character, it is more or less up to you to fill in the blanks. More strict story type games like Mass Effect, you aren't given much leeway.
You could argue that Fallout 4 attempted to shift to the Mass Effect style of RP, and thinking more about it now, I think I would agree, but maybe that is my beef. Rather than the voice acting itself. It didn't feel right.
Either way though, I found the Fallout/Elder Scrolls style of RP to be far more interesting.
March Climber
Member
The issue is that when looking for more information in ESO, Oblivion, and Morrowind, they choose to make the NPC repeat past information that was already said(examples above). It's padding that should be put within a quest log or dialogue log for the forgetful types. My second image is from the ESO forums from people complaining about the very thing we're discussing.
Like I've said before, I'm fine with the level of dialogue Skyrim presents and I don't want to put it within the same range as Oblivion, which Oblivion tended to lean more on the wordy side like Morrowind. I know the wordiness of old school Bethesda has it's audience, but it simply isn't for me
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
The only meaningful difference between FO4 and FO3 is the addition of a voiced actor providing vocalization to the MC text that you see on screen. Nothing about that addition forced the story in one direction or the other. The player still had as much agency as in previous FallOut games.
You could for sure make an argument about the delivery of the voiced lines. But trying to argue that simply by reason of having voiced lines, it was taking away any agency of the player to choose their own path within the game is a fallacious argument based more on projection than reality.
And this is precisely what I mean by projection. FO4 merely added a voice to the lines. That's it. And you're already projecting intention onto the developers as if there is actual evidence of your claims within the game. There isn't.
Merely adding voice to the MC's lines isn't moving towards a more ME-style, more rigidly defined narrative. It's just adding voice to the MC's lines. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I think you read too much into it, and perhaps that illogical projection coloured your perception of the game.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The issue is that when looking for more information in ESO, Oblivion, and Morrowind, they choose to make the NPC repeat past information that was already said(examples above). It's padding that should be put within a quest log or dialogue log for the forgetful types. My second image is from the ESO forums from people complaining about the very thing we're discussing.
Like I've said before, I'm fine with the level of dialogue Skyrim presents and I don't want to put it within the same range as Oblivion, which Oblivion tended to lean more on the wordy side like Morrowind. I know the wordiness of old school Bethesda has it's audience, but it simply isn't for me
I'm surprised you're saying that these are somehow long... not in the least.
And that ESO one is a very bad example indeed. That isn't the fault of the game those pictures. That's down to the curiosity of the player deciding to ask about about their ability to feed on blood because they saw the question there, and felt maybe they might learn new information rather than just a reiterating of the previous facts.
The game already told them that the vampires couldn't draw sustenance from blood anymore, but the player decides to ask again cause it's there. They could have just said goodbye already, but they chose to keep asking, which is exactly what I do to make sure I hear every piece of information I need.
That's useful because you wonder if there's somehow a way in which a vampire has managed to beat it, and if someone has, maybe they would know.
What you're showing me is perfectly normal, and not overly long.
March Climber
Member
If you read their content you'll see the problem, especially the first picture. It's padded out no matter how you want to paint it. If I repeat this same sentence to you in three different ways you'd feel the same way. It's almost like I'm trying to convey the same thing multiple times but with different words to get the point across. Forums are like that, we repeat and repeat, without even realizing it and it makes us regurgitate the same information over and over.
(Now you're saying you wouldn't cut anything from what I've just typed above?)
That shouldn't be the fault of the player for clicking it to see if there was any further information to get from that question. That's a game design issue. Again, this is why a quest log/dialogue log exists. Cut the needless padding, make it a tighter dialogue experience, and you'll lose nothing. and gain better pacing.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
That's pretty damn basic. If you and other people have issue to listening to or reading so little lines of dialogue then you are probably playing the wrong game. And then you use, of all things, Obsidian as an example of doing it better? Obsidian's scripts and dialog options tend to be significantly more verbose and rife with more branches and options than Bethesda's dialog. This isn't making any sense.
March Climber
Member
Nope, I like some(not all) of Obsidian's games and Bioware's Mass Effect series and Kotor. They have done it right. Also I already told you I thought Skyrim's level of dialogue was well balanced.
The big difference, which I keep trying and trying to point out, is that Obsidian and Bioware tend to waste less time regurgitating the same information back to you when choosing a new dialogue option and in addition to that, give you interesting or important information more often when choosing that dialogue. They provide the illusion that the person you're speaking to isn't just rambling on and on and that's all I ask for. Cutting the fat. Back in the 360/PS3 generation I kept wondering why I didn't like Fallout 3 as much as others did, and then I played New Vegas afterwards. It all clicked as to why.
Husky
THE Prey 2 fanatic
How the fuck are people disappointed by this
I think those floating health bars and XP popups are gonna be real detrimental to my immersion though. I'm sure I can turn them off, but I worry the health bars were placed there because somehow they'll be essential. Maybe there'll be bullet sponge enemies or something. Real concerned about the combat. I wanna see the dialogue too, to know I'm getting more dialogue options than I did in Fallout 4.
I think those floating health bars and XP popups are gonna be real detrimental to my immersion though. I'm sure I can turn them off, but I worry the health bars were placed there because somehow they'll be essential. Maybe there'll be bullet sponge enemies or something. Real concerned about the combat. I wanna see the dialogue too, to know I'm getting more dialogue options than I did in Fallout 4.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Every major RPG in the Bethesda mold has this. Even non Bethesda RPGs like Mass Effect have the same thing. So you aren't really making sense to me on this one. I can't agree. Every Mass Effect game with a multitude of characters has this same thing if you dig enough for more information. And then when you're trying to be certain there's nothing new sometimes you go right back to them and they repeat the exact same phrase. All dialog systems unless you're locked out of it can be exposed in this way. It was even there in the Outer Worlds. It's also in New Vegas. Come on.
But obviously you just have a different view or experience from me, and that's fine.
March Climber
Member
....And if you view that to be the case, then doesn't that still mean that Bethesda breaks that illusion that I'm speaking of, way more often than Obsidian and Bioware?
Astral Dog
Member
Damn you got meI'm pretty sure your original post said something like 'quite fitting for such a boring game'. Why a sudden change of heart?
changed because i realized i was being unecessarily hostile to this game, after reading more comments it appears silent protagonist was for the better ,normally i don't like make your own silent protagonist
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I read "Silent Hill protagonist," and was confused and intrigued. Now I'm neither.
#TeamReal
#TeamReal
Larxia
Member
I'm surprised that so many people hated this in Fallout 4, I didn't know.
I thought it was pretty great in Fallout 4, the way your character finally had voice acting and also the cutscenes having a bit more camera angles than just a big zoom on the npc face.
I think the main story itself in Fallout 4 was pretty bad, it was bad to force a family background etc on you, it killed the immersive / rpg element of it, but this doesn't have anything to do with the character having voice acting and more cinematic dialogues, completely different things and I think people might be confusing them.
I thought it was pretty great in Fallout 4, the way your character finally had voice acting and also the cutscenes having a bit more camera angles than just a big zoom on the npc face.
I think the main story itself in Fallout 4 was pretty bad, it was bad to force a family background etc on you, it killed the immersive / rpg element of it, but this doesn't have anything to do with the character having voice acting and more cinematic dialogues, completely different things and I think people might be confusing them.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
Good, nothing worse than an RPG where the protagonist never shuts up or has horrible line delivery.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I just think it's silly to not be able to enjoy the discussion because some have to spend half their time on the forum knee jerk criticising something because of who it's made by. It means that some people reading the posts are left wondering why something so uncontroversial is getting such strong reactions. I think it's OK to call out behaviour that makes this place a less pleasant and less useful place to visit, just like it's OK for you to call me out for having an opinion on something you don't care about, I guess.
