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Bloomberg: Sony to reveal Spartacus next week

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
To finally be able to play PS1-3 games without fidgeting with the old consoles would be a dream come true. Curious to see how it‘ll work though. Stream only I assume?
With PS2 HD Classics on PS4 they had a very good emulator in some cases rendering better and more faithfully than the best in class open source emulators (well no s*it Sherlock you may say hehe, it is their own HW, but I think their upsampling idea, running the GS graphics pipeline N*times with minor jitter and the same input data to increase rendering resolution without running into compatibility issues with all the tricks the game pulled with direct HW access… that was a smart idea), PS1 emulators are mature and they ported them to other architectures before (see PSP and PS Vita). They had a completely software emu for PS1 and PS2 on PS3 with good performance and compatibility.

PS3 wise they need to get away from making CELL and RSX chips (like they have for PS Now at the moment) and use commodity X86 HW to save money on their streaming solution anyways and once they do that they have the key parts for a PS3 emulator running on PS5. They can give the option to stream it and download it, maybe not at launch but it is not like there is a strong case for it.
 
That middle tier is where Sony will need to focus. We know their first party won’t be there day one, but if they got some of the bigger 3rd party games on there reasonably close to launch (like GOTG) then that would be good. Leveraging their Japanese contacts is a must. The middle tier is the closest thing to GamePass by the sounds of it, then the premium tier being the true differentiator as PlayStation’s back catalogue is infinitely more appealing than Xbox’s.
 
You don’t need it to play f2p games, the most played online games. And you used to need gold to play f2p games and it never set the world on fire. 🤡

Honestly the reason why Plus is more popular than Gold is probably down to the differences in install base. On both platforms it’s mandatory for online play and with Xbox it used to be a requirement for FTP games. I don’t believe it’s unfair to compare the two since they are almost identical at this point.

Animated GIF
 
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Jemm

Member
Honestly the reason why Plus is more popular than Gold is probably down to the differences in install base. On both platforms it’s mandatory for online play and with Xbox it used to be a requirement for FTP games. I don’t believe it’s unfair to compare the two since they are almost identical at this point.
Also Plus has much better free games than XBL Gold, which are these days rarely even worth adding to library - let alone to play. Plus is often worth it, even without online play.
 

Javthusiast

Banned
Also Plus has much better free games than XBL Gold, which are these days rarely even worth adding to library - let alone to play. Plus is often worth it, even without online play.

It is this. I most of the time forget to even look at the gold games, especially with having game pass.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Honestly the reason why Plus is more popular than Gold is probably down to the differences in install base. On both platforms it’s mandatory for online play and with Xbox it used to be a requirement for FTP games. I don’t believe it’s unfair to compare the two since they are almost identical at this point.

Animated GIF
It it’s the but they’re acting like you’re “forced” to subscribe it… but you aren’t. And are pretending it wasn’t the same, actually worse since you needed it for f2p games, with gold despite the latter flopping.
 
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It it’s the but they’re acting like you’re “forced” to subscribe it… but you aren’t. And are pretending it wasn’t the same, actually worse since you needed it for f2p games, with gold despite the latter flopping.

There are some extremely popular FTP games like Fortnite or Call of Duty Warzone. Those that don’t want to pay to play can it’s only if you want to play some specific titles that you might need PlayStation Plus or Gold. I agree that nobody is forcing you because you have other options but it’s still a requirement if your really want to play certain titles online.
 

yurinka

Member
Honestly the reason why Plus is more popular than Gold is probably down to the differences in install base. On both platforms it’s mandatory for online play and with Xbox it used to be a requirement for FTP games. I don’t believe it’s unfair to compare the two since they are almost identical at this point.
Well, in PS5 PS Plus also has the PS Plus Collection in addition to the monthly games.

Also Plus has much better free games than XBL Gold, which are these days rarely even worth adding to library - let alone to play. Plus is often worth it, even without online play.
Yes, at least in my case each year there are at least 2 or 3 games included there I'd have bought anyways (and their combined price is higher than a yearly subscription) so only for the games it's worth for me.

I also would like to highlight the PS Plus discounts. Each year I save enough money with them to pay multiple yearly subscriptions. So for the discounts alone PS Plus is worth for me too.

These two reasons for me make it worth for me specially if you get a year when discounted or in cd key stores, I almost don't play online multiplayer. I save a lot of money every year thanks to PS Plus.

There are some extremely popular FTP games like Fortnite or Call of Duty Warzone. Those that don’t want to pay to play can it’s only if you want to play some specific titles that you might need PlayStation Plus or Gold. I agree that nobody is forcing you because you have other options but it’s still a requirement if your really want to play certain titles online.
Yep, the sub is required for the online multiplayer of paid games. But the majority of players don't seem to be interested on this considering only 47M of the 111M PSN MAU pay for PS Plus.

This is a 42% of the PS users with the console connected to internet and pretty likely there are more players with the console in a location without internet connection (like a bedroom without wifi or wired internet available), so aren't counted for MAUs.

That middle tier is where Sony will need to focus. We know their first party won’t be there day one, but if they got some of the bigger 3rd party games on there reasonably close to launch (like GOTG) then that would be good. Leveraging their Japanese contacts is a must. The middle tier is the closest thing to GamePass by the sounds of it, then the premium tier being the true differentiator as PlayStation’s back catalogue is infinitely more appealing than Xbox’s.
I think the top goal of Spartacus will be to use this intermediate tier to increase the average revenue per user and total revenue of Sony's game subscriptions. Unlike PS Now it will be available worldwide, and I'm pretty sure a huge portion of the PS Plus subbers will see as a good deal to pay a couple of bucks more per month more to have access to hundreds of downloadable games.

In fact I think that the majority of new users that Spartacus will get will be for this -base Gamepass equivalent- intermediate tier.

Regarding the top tier, I think it will depend of the games they add to PS Now, if they release their mobile and smart tv client soon and how the 'extended demos' really work and what games are included in these demos. I think that to include all their 1st party games plus some key 3rd party games in these demos since release day, and demos being a full game 10 hours trial (and better if maybe a day before launch) like in EA Play.
 
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THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
It is this. I most of the time forget to even look at the gold games, especially with having game pass.

I dont think it's this at all. I think if you look back over the average of the past 2 years it's been pretty even. A lot of bad months for both gold and ps plus.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
It it’s the but they’re acting like you’re “forced” to subscribe it… but you aren’t. And are pretending it wasn’t the same, actually worse since you needed it for f2p games, with gold despite the latter flopping.
Wut?

Just from a random year, 2011, Gold had 35m subscribers from a 50m instal base.


With 50 million Xbox 360 owners, that means 70% of them are connected to Live, with the rest either being offline or multiple console users.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Want to turn this into a table.


zSA9YoQ.jpg
Uh ... where is Xbox Live? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Also, there is surely almost complete overlap for people who have PS Now and PS+ since I can't imagine having Now without +. I mean maybe some people do it but I would think if you're in on Now you're paying for +.

Which would be the same deal for XBL and GP actually ... People who have GP are probably going to be on XBL, and of course there are those on GPU who are basically combined. Point is, I don't see how a "table" helps us, since this graph doesn't tell us the full story for anyone but maybe Nintendo. :p
 
All this back and forth over what should be compared to what. It's mental gymnastics in an attempt to place one in a more favorable light.

Up to this point it's always been compared as...

Xbox Live Gold.
vs
Playstation Plus.

Xbox Gamepass.
vs
PS Now.

Now 3 out of 4 of those, we know the number of subs for with Xbox Live Gold being the only unknown. But even then, there's enough data to guesstimate that it's likely about the same number as PS Plus give or take a couple million either way.

Xbox's counter to PS Now was Gamepass, and at this point it's beyond obvious which one is a success, and which one flopped. Gamepass has a sub count of over 25 million at this point, while PS Now can't even crack 4 million. That's despite it being available longer.

Seeing as it's the obvious failure that it is, Sony has decided to revamp it's offering, and Sony fans here are claiming that it will automatically be more successful day one because... reasons.

Despite the narrative being pushed here by those who wish reality were different. The most likely outcome of their new offering is that Gamepass will still dominate, and continue to do so going forward. Seeing as Sony doesn't want to include any of its first party titles with the service the way Gamepass does, means that it likely won't move the needle at all. People here can jumble up the numbers and claim whatever they like. That won't change the real world numbers though.

So much talk about how successful it's going to be, instead of discussing the actual additional benefits it will have is telling. Watch Sony unveil an underwhelming subscription service, and the very people who are desperately trying to mismatch numbers in this thread... Will be repeatedly boasting how great the service is once it's unveiled. So predictable, you could set your watch to it.
 
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  • Fire
Reactions: M16
I hope this is good. I'll definitely subscribe if it is.

(good = all first party releases day one).

If it's not good I'll keep waiting for sales. They would undoubtedly get way more money from me if they were brave enough to do it than they will if they aren't.
 

Orbital2060

Member
Im thinking maybe Somy has downplayed the scenario in order to make a splash when they announce it and they do launch 1p games day one on the service.

Because they kind of have to be in order to be competitive.
 

Just_one

Member
im down for it but price will be everything and also if the PS1/PS2 games have trophy support.

no reason other than that to go play them.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
So is it a real opportunity to now play the likes of Ridge Racer from the PS1-2 era, the strike games, and Motorstorm on the PS4/5?
 

Just_one

Member
To be honest im pretty sure Sony wont release this so im out of the last tier :

my wishlist for spartacus :

100/120€ per year

Big Catalog of games from PS1/PS2/PSP/PS3/PS4 ALL downloadable to PS5

Monthly Games Updates for all consoles + 1 PS5 Game

Trophy Support for PS1, PS2 and PSP Games

Clould Saving

Exclusive Sale Discounts.

Give me this Sony and my money is yours!!
 
I could see myself getting this if it's good enough. Especially if you can get access to older titles too without having to stream them through PS Now. Which was not ideal.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I would get it in a heartbeat if it has PS3 downloadables. Pref. upgraded. PS1 and PS2 classics are welcome too. Sony has a huge portfolio because they span 5 generations. They can one up MS with their history if they wanted to.
 

Mephisto40

Member
I predicted that they would allow the disc version PS5's to play older games natively with a subscription when the console was first released

Not saying that is what’s happening, but that would be the dream, and there is no question the PS5 could run ps1-3 games via emulation natively

I know this is a bit of a pipe dream but that would blow the socks off gamepass if it happened, and would sell more PS5's (providing people can actually buy them). A lot of people still have a back catalogue of old playstation games just sitting around collecting dust. I still keep my old consoles, but for the people who don't I think it would be very welcome, and something i'd be prepared to pay extra per month for

Just being able to put a PS2 disc into my PS5 and play it would be an amazing feature
 
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skit_data

Member
I predicted that they would allow the disc version PS5's to play older games natively with a subscription when the console was first released

Not saying that is what’s happening, but that would be the dream, and there is no question the PS5 could run ps1-3 games via emulation natively

I know this is a bit of a pipe dream but that would blow the socks off gamepass if it happened, and would sell more PS5's (providing people can actually buy them). A lot of people still have a back catalogue of old playstation games just sitting around collecting dust. I still keep my old consoles, but for the people who don't I think it would be very welcome, and something i'd be prepared to pay extra per month for
I’d be pissed. I bought a Digital Edition PS5 on the premise of it being exactly the same as a Standard Edition outside of playing PS4/PS5 discs.
 
Im thinking maybe Somy has downplayed the scenario in order to make a splash when they announce it and they do launch 1p games day one on the service.

Because they kind of have to be in order to be competitive.
I could see them announcing “select” 1p games coming to the service. At the very least EA Play style 10 hour trials and 1p games coming 6-12 months after launch.

Can’t see them not including R&C, Returnal, Demon’s Souls, Spider-Man/MM, etc in the service day 1 (with trials for games like Horizon, GT7, etc and full inclusion later this Fall) to be competitive, on top of whatever format PS1/2/3/P classics come into play
 

Mephisto40

Member
True, that’d be awesome. Probably a Bluray drive though, in order to play PS3 games.
Indeed would be awesome, and something the system is fully capable of doing. I'm not expecting it to happen tbh, but native disc support for ps1, ps2 and ps3 games would be a huge win for Sony, and I honestly would pay an extra £5 a month to use
 
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wvnative

Member
I predicted that they would allow the disc version PS5's to play older games natively with a subscription when the console was first released

Not saying that is what’s happening, but that would be the dream, and there is no question the PS5 could run ps1-3 games via emulation natively

I know this is a bit of a pipe dream but that would blow the socks off gamepass if it happened, and would sell more PS5's (providing people can actually buy them). A lot of people still have a back catalogue of old playstation games just sitting around collecting dust. I still keep my old consoles, but for the people who don't I think it would be very welcome, and something i'd be prepared to pay extra per month for

Just being able to put a PS2 disc into my PS5 and play it would be an amazing feature
PS1 and PS3 are not happening and Sony is too lazy to make PS2 games run off disc.
 

reksveks

Member
Wasnt aware you needed a licence to run your own bootloader you developed yourself?
I am more talking about the games themselves, I suspect that they were licensed and published for specific systems.

It's a suspicion that I have based on the limited xbox BC list but could be off-base on this one. Obviously Sony could work to track down the legal owners of the games and agree the deals to make it work.
 

Belthazar

Member
Wasnt aware you needed a licence to run your own bootloader you developed yourself?

Why do you think Microsoft didn't bruteforce full BC with X360 and original Xbox games? The games are usually licensed to run on X platform, enabling it to run in another may not be to the publishers best interests, as they may be interested in remastering it or something. It's not very clear how those agreements were made, but it's pretty telling that Microsoft need to have the publisher's approval to release a game on BC.
 

AGRacing

Member
MS had to go through and license all those old BC games.

Licensing stuff like those ps2 LOTR games would be a nightmare

I wonder if they've learned a lesson and applied it to their licensing of games after it became obvious this was a problem. It should never have mattered what specific platform these games were for if there was a "Playstation" in the name.
 

Mephisto40

Member
Why do you think Microsoft didn't bruteforce full BC with X360 and original Xbox games? The games are usually licensed to run on X platform, enabling it to run in another may not be to the publishers best interests, as they may be interested in remastering it or something. It's not very clear how those agreements were made, but it's pretty telling that Microsoft need to have the publisher's approval to release a game on BC.
I know this is murky waters and hugely wishful thinking, but you would have thought the licencing for PS1 games would have been to play on all PlayStation systems, especially considering the PS3 can play them natively with no issues. Pretty certain Sony didnt go round to every publisher on the planet making sure they were ok with the PS3 playing PS1 games before they released the console
 
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I am more talking about the games themselves, I suspect that they were licensed and published for specific systems.

It's a suspicion that I have based on the limited xbox BC list but could be off-base on this one. Obviously Sony could work to track down the legal owners of the games and agree the deals to make it work.

If he's just talking about running the games of the disc then no there wouldn't be licensing issues there.
 

Mephisto40

Member
Then the issue is youre doing a bunch of work for no money. If I go to ebay and buy def jam fight for NY nobody gets paid except the neckbeard i bought it from.
And if you buy a second hand copy of mario on the NES and a second hand NES to play it on Nintendo see none of the money, don't see the difference personally, and nobody is going door to door looking for reciepts for 20 year old games

Apparently the PS5 already has a PS3 emulator built into the OS, so it wouldnt be any work at all either really
 
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BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
And if you buy a second hand copy of mario on the NES and a second hand NES to play it on Nintendo see none of the money, don't see the difference personally, and nobody is going door to door looking for reciepts for 20 year old games

I’m talking about Xbox selling BC games digitally as opposed to only letting you run the disc version
 

schaft0620

Member
There are around 50 million PS+ subs
There are around 30 million Game Pass Subs

Lets give or take 10 million each because the Sony numbers are 2021 and Xbox has been growing every month and Starfield is coming yadda yadda.

If Sony's service is 10-20 million more users than the Xbox service (without day one games completing for time) Sony will have more success getting Live Service Games like Outriders, Avengers, etc etc.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Sony not to convert PS+ into whatever this new service is.
 
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Withnail

Member
There are around 50 million PS+ subs
There are around 30 million Game Pass Subs

Lets give or take 10 million each because the Sony numbers are 2021 and Xbox has been growing every month and Starfield is coming yadda yadda.

If Sony's service is 10-20 million more users than the Xbox service (without day one games completing for time) Sony will have more success getting Live Service Games like Outriders, Avengers, etc etc.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Sony not to convert PS+ into whatever this new service is.

By all accounts the existing PS+ isn't changing they're just adding two higher tiers.
 
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