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California bills aim to crack down on for-profit charter schools

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Tripon

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Cool, so when will the heads of charter schools stop bashing teachers unions for the cause of all of the ills in education and pushing for laws that make it easier to hobble unions and fire teachers without cause?

I don't know, when reform of tenure happens. Asking charter schools to fix the procedure of how to investigate and fire teachers accused of something isn't their jobs. It's on that district and that union to create a more transparent, efficient and ultimately fair system. When you have teachers like Paul Chapel III, and Mark Brandt survive for decades because on the broken system LAUSD used to investigate, and the teacher union with their insistence of protecting everyone to the point where they are protecting even literal child molesters, it's a broken system.

Also, at least in LA, "percentage of total LAUSD charter school students with severe disabilities is less than one-third the percentage of students with disabilities in LAUSD public schools."

Yeah, charters need to do a better job on this. My school only has a push in inclusion model, that means every student takes general education classes, no matter where they are in their academic and cognitive skills. I have students that before they came to my school (6-12 grades) that never set foot in a general education classroom outside of P.E. elective classes like Art. Kids that score in the bottom of 1% when taking cognitive assessments, and on the first day, they all got sent to the general education classroom. It was certainly a sink or swim situation. They're still more on the moderate on the scale on the mild-moderate-severe scale that most schools and district uses. (Which by the way, is what current trends and the modern movement of making sure as many students identified with special needs are in the general education classroom, and not separated into a more restricted environment).

I worked in settings that was Autism specific and Severe learning disabilities only, and the amount of staff and money needed to run that type of program is astounding. At one point, there was 10 adults in the room for 9 students. Even as 6 of them were aides, earning part time salary, that still meant 4 teachers earning a regular teacher salaries. That was about a quarter million of salary in that room to help those 9 students. I'm not saying it was wrong that was the teacher to student ratio in that room, I'm saying that was the reality at that school.

This school year, my school tried to create a program where a small group of students were instead eased into the general education classroom with support like emotional and social counseling, a small group aide spent with them at least in English and Math all days, and other services, this was only for 6th graders. Except, we lost our authorization with LAUSD, so we had to ship that program to another school. We were fairly lucky with that the 6th graders this year seem to be able to handle integration compared to last year group. The school the program moved it to seems to be using it as a strict separate classroom instead, which is not what the program is about.

Which brings me into my next point, as I said before, any public school has to accept any student that applies unless they hold a lottery, (which then is randomly selected among the pool, and you can place preference on existing family members, etc.), but as a family, you need to know what programs and services a school currently offers for your children to determine if it's a good fit for your family. A family that has a child with severe needs should make sure they don't put their son or daughter at a school that don't have a program set up for their student. The school will try to make it work as much as they can, but I will tell you that it doesn't end well.

Which I guess is a chicken and egg thing. A family with a child with severe needs shouldn't enter their child into a charter school that doesn't have the program they have, but a charter school needs to have those students first in order to create that program. And you might ask why don't they create that program first and then recruit students for it. I would say that requires thinking logically and planning, and good luck with that at any school where the impetus is to service your current population and not any potential population that you may have.

Here is some info from CCSA, the California Charter School Association:

When operating as a school of their district, a charter school does not make placement decisions for students with disabilities, and the district is ultimately responsible for providing services to these students. Unfortunately, due to financial and logistical considerations, the placement offered by the district is often back at the same traditional school site which the family had opted out of, thereby denying them an option to attend their school of choice and contributing to the lower enrollment of students with disabilities in charters. In 2012-13, about 70% of all charter schools in California operated under this arrangement.

When operating autonomously (as a Local Education Agency or in an "LEA-like" arrangement) for special education, a charter school is fully responsible for placement decisions and provision of services to students with special needs. As evident from the chart, this flexibility is relatively new. Only 3 years ago, charters operating autonomously for special education comprised about 10% of all charter schools in the state. Today, this number has tripled, and about 30% of all charter schools have achieved LEA or LEA-like status. With greater autonomy came an increase in the proportion of students with disabilities served.

In 2011-12, the restructure of Los Angeles Unified Special Education Local Plan Area has created Option 3--an LEA-like option for charter schools granting them similar autonomy and access to special education funding available to LEAs. Since then, Option 3 schools increased the percentage of students with disabilities they serve by 22% (from 8.08% to 9.89%). Overall student enrollment in Option 3 schools has increased by 40%, from 29,086 to 40,809 students. At the same time, the number of students with disabilities has grown by 54%, from 2,620 to 4,037 students. Enrollment of students with lower-incidence disabilities increased by 36%.

http://www.ccsa.org/advocacy/special-education-adv/#tab-facts_figures
 

Tripon

Member
How is that any different from the finance or tech manager who sexually harasses his female coworkers for years but is never punished because he's "such a great and productive employee"? (aka he's golf/drinking buddies with the higher ups)

People love to rail against tenure and seniority while pretending that the private sector is some magical pareto-efficient utopian meritocracy where nepotism and bad management don't exist. That's bullshit.

Because they are literal child molesters who were protected by the system created.

I'm not even pro charter, despite the fact that I currently work for one, but since I work in this field, I need to make sure that I understand what I'm getting into when I move on to the next job.
 
Because they are literal child molesters who were protected by the system created.

I'm not even pro charter, despite the fact that I currently work for one, but since I work in this field, I need to make sure that I understand what I'm getting into when I move on to the next job.

Do you also get upset when child molestors get due process in real court as well? Because that's the point of due process, to protect even the worst offenders and make those prosecuting to actually prove what they're saving. Give me a system where too few people get fired than the system charter advocates want, where teachers are nothing more than a number on a balance sheet to be cut the moment you become too inefficient.
 
I get upset when children are put in danger in general. I don't know about you.

So, how many workers protections should teachers throw away "for the children?" I mean, obviously, we don't want dirty nasty child molesters getting a pension so let's not offer one in the 1st place!
 
Your words, not mine.

Hey, I just want to know what workers protections that a teacher shouldn't have because a bad teacher might use them to protect themselves and actually make administrators prove their case instead of just saying, "bad teacher" and getting rid of them.
 

Tripon

Member
Hey, I just want to know what workers protections that a teacher shouldn't have because a bad teacher might use them to protect themselves and actually make administrators prove their case instead of just saying, "bad teacher" and getting rid of them.

You seem to want to argue with a person you created in your mind. All I said it isn't charters school jobs to determine what protections unions and school districts should offer.

Again, I'm not against tenure, I'll probably look for a district that offers it for my next job. You tell me what worker protections you think are reasonable, and what aren't.
 
So, how many workers protections should teachers throw away "for the children?" I mean, obviously, we don't want dirty nasty child molesters getting a pension so let's not offer one in the 1st place!

In my state public charter school teachers have the same pension/retirement system as standard public school teachers.
 

Tripon

Member
In my state public charter school teachers have the same pension/retirement system as standard public school teachers.
That's how it is in CA as well. CALSTERS is handled by the state I think. I don't think they would take kindly to the suggestion that it should only be an union benefit.
 
You seem to want to argue with a person you created in your mind. All I said it isn't charters school jobs to determine what protections unions and school districts should offer.

Again, I'm not against tenure, I'll probably look for a district that offers it for my next job. You tell me what worker protections you think are reasonable, and what aren't.

I also work at a charter school and may be looking to leave for a public school in the coming years.

I am just afraid that public school students will be little shits compared to the ones I am use to. My current school has very little tolerance for teenage BS.
 
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