DaGwaphics
Member
I hear you. It's just a data point for future comparison.
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Circana / Piscatella: US Physical Software Spending Dropped Under 5% of Total Spending in 2023.
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
I hear you. It's just a data point for future comparison.
nial
Gold Member
Sony is not stupid enough to do so when it still accounts for a big chunk of their game sales, plus huge physical presence on stores.
I don't even know what Microsoft is still doing at this point, though. They've already stopped producing physical games in Brazil, so other regions will probably follow up.
yazenov
Member
Again this is misleading information by Mat. Damn pointless to compare mobile, subscriptions, Microtransactions, and PC .
Check out the UK gaming market in 2023 — More accurate information.
www.neogaf.com
Check out the UK gaming market in 2023 — More accurate information.
UK Video Game Market Data 2023(Total Hardware Sales: PS5 1.2m, Switch 720k and Xbox Series 650k)
Source: https://flipbook-livid.vercel.app/deploy/examples/assets/pdf/book.pdf Software: Hardware: Accessories: Game Chart:
Physical game sales holding better than I expected in the UK. Good!
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Self_Destructive
Member
That's not an accurate representation of gaming industry spend AT ALLAgain this is misleading information by Mat. Damn pointless to compare mobile, subscriptions, and PC .
Check out the UK gaming market in 2023 — More accurate information.
UK Video Game Market Data 2023(Total Hardware Sales: PS5 1.2m, Switch 720k and Xbox Series 650k)
Source: https://flipbook-livid.vercel.app/deploy/examples/assets/pdf/book.pdf Software: Hardware: Accessories: Game Chart:
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Again this is misleading information by Mat. Damn pointless to compare mobile, subscriptions, and PC .
Check out the UK gaming market in 2023 — More accurate information.
UK Video Game Market Data 2023(Total Hardware Sales: PS5 1.2m, Switch 720k and Xbox Series 650k)
Source: https://flipbook-livid.vercel.app/deploy/examples/assets/pdf/book.pdf Software: Hardware: Accessories: Game Chart:
It's not misleading information, he's telling you exactly how much they have increased overall versus how much physical only has decreased from 2019 to 2023.
What *you* have posted is just a split of digital vs physical for some top selling games, and only when data for both is available, it says in the image itself, the way you're trying to present is misleading.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Sony has every incentive to try and convert consumers to digital as fast as possible. That alone would improve their margins a fair bit. And we know that when you lock in consumers to a digital ecosystem, they often aren't motivated to get out. And you eliminate whatever remnants of used games purchases are left. And they can make tons of money controlling featured advertising on their storefront for all titles. It's win / win / win for any platform holder. They are in a cold sweat trying to figure out how to convince you to be okay with it ASAP, whether that is detachable disc drive, or cloud gaming for owned titles. But yes, more PS consumers still want physical, for sure than Xbox. Xbox convinced their consumers faster with Gamepass, Series S, Cloud, discounts on GP games (digital only), quick resume working far better digitally, etc. They converted their audience the fastest.
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Self_Destructive
Member
You kind of have to.... when you're comparing industry wide spending trends...
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
I think digital is also down for new games. Saw a recent vid that said overall spending for new games was way down. Seems people are buying older games now.
yazenov
Member
Nah it's misleading as the relevant information compares full-package games as usual in the Circana top 20 charts. Of course, there are different charts for mobile and Gaas games but we here do not give a damn about those. We care about the you know, the games we play here.
So let's see him compare the physical/ digital splits of the top 20 games on PS5/Switch/XBS/PC . Not the other trash so we can have some relevant information for us. LOL at including mobile and subscriptions. Talk about being disingenuous.
Calverz
Member
wow that didnt take long.
Topher
Gold Member
Eh.....not much point discussing anything with you if you need to make it about me. We disagree. It's fine. Moving on....
Yeah, don't really see anything wrong with those points.
Bit funny that he does admit that the useful data is being reserved for subscribers.
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reinking
Gold Member
Sure, except it skews numbers toward digital based on choice being removed from some titles. We all know digital is growing but including the mobile and subscription is a bit misleading. It's Apples and bananas when bananas are out of season.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
"Relevant to us" is the irrelevant part. He's talking about total industry spending, of which Mobile/GAAS/Physical are all a part of. There's nothing disingenuous about the hard percentages he's reporting.
We don't have to like it, but it doesn't mean he's being disingenuous. He could probably give more detailed reports with actual dollar figures, but like
Topher
pointed above, he's reserving that data for folks who pay for the Circana subscription.
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Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Total industry spending + will probably include every single DLC and microtransaction lol.
What would be better and give an actual picture is to provide splits on each platform for like the top 10 best selling NEW releases in 2023 and then see.
I bet then it would be something like 30:70 / 40:60 / 50:50 / 60:40 / 70:30 splits, as opposed to this pointless 5:100 total spend nonsense.
What would be better and give an actual picture is to provide splits on each platform for like the top 10 best selling NEW releases in 2023 and then see.
I bet then it would be something like 30:70 / 40:60 / 50:50 / 60:40 / 70:30 splits, as opposed to this pointless 5:100 total spend nonsense.
Self_Destructive
Member
How can it be misleading when he specifically states it's "the percentage of all US software spending"?
You're trying to claim it's misleading because he's not comparing the exact thing you want him to compare.... That doesn't mean he's wrong or misleading..
nial
Gold Member
And that is why they won't force a sudden change in the next generation, you can't just do it without expecting a huge alienation from both users and retailers. On paper it sounds like an incredible situation for Sony, but it is not possible without making huge commitments; day 1 in GP is a big example, and you know they will never do that.
bender
What time is it?
Disingenuous is the wrong way to describe it but I do wonder how useful that data is outside of trying to grab attention.
reinking
Gold Member
He knows that the headline is going to be a bit misleading. Let's be real, this guy has been doing this for a long time and knows what he is doing. You can have the win on a technicality though.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I'm sure publishers spend money to buy market trend data like that. Tweeting a snippet from it is probably to try and get more people to pay Circana for the full reports, I guess. (and to stoke engagement .. for better or worse)
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Topher
Gold Member
He knows that the headline is going to be a bit misleading. Let's be real, this guy has been doing this for a long time and knows what he is doing. You can have the win on a technicality though.
Yep. People mislead with accurate statistics all the time.
bender
What time is it?
67% of people use statistics that are made up on the spot.
Self_Destructive
Member
He knows the headline is going to create discussion, definitely lol.He knows that the headline is going to be a bit misleading. Let's be real, this guy has been doing this for a long time and knows what he is doing. You can have the win on a technicality though.
But cmon, of course he's not going to give the exact details of physical vs digital on consoles specifically, and specifically within games which offer both options.. He definitely has that data though... which is why when he talks about industry trends, you should believe it... but remember, he works for a company which sells that data to interested parties.. because that's information they want. He can't just give that info up freely online to appease fans of specific options lol.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I get thats what hes doing, but its stupid. Does he also include which of the included platforms even have a default option for physical software? And more importantly, their relative market share compared to everything else?
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The guy puts his spin on 'trends' and not actually giving the useful information.
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Self_Destructive
Member
Nope. He puts a reality into his tweets.. which some people simply don't want to hear. You already know that the "useful" information... is what they sell. They 100% have that information... but they aren't going to give it freely on the internet.. they're a business which analyses trends in the industry.
What's concerning... is how quick people are to completely discredit someone... when they aren't being told things they want to hear from them.
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How exactly do you plan to buy mtx like a skin physically? It's a stupid stat because he's trying to include irrelevant data that may have increased independently and has no relevance to choosing between physical and digital.
I have no preference so it's not a case of "what I want to hear". It's stupid because it includes things that aren't related. See my previous post on the subject.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
He specifically cited the 37% drop in physical game spending in the next tweet.
Regardless, the chain is headed by him very plainly talking about total spending in the whole industry, of course it's going to include all that. It's going to include digital, mtx, dlc, GaaS and even physical.
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Self_Destructive
Member
Pretty sure I said "some people" and not you specifically... and yet.. you're saying it's stupid.... because it's not what you wanted to hear.. lol
Bojji
Member
And 25% of them have micropenises.
Not sure why you keep repeating this "what you want to hear" nonsense. It's more likely he's saying what he wants you to hear.
Which is fine as a stat but notice he's purposely comparing it to 2019 specifically. Because 2020 onwards a major console manufacturer decided not to include a disc drive in its main seller console. The 37% decline compared to 2019 in physical game spending is not surprising.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The middle part of your post can apply equally to both Series S and PS5's Digital Edition to some extent.
But to a greater point, you can see how that contributed to both 1) the overall spending increasing 25% but 2) physical spending decreasing 37% between 2019 and 2023.
I'll repeat what I said before, we don't have to like it (as a frequent gamefly subscriber I definitely don't) but it's a bit bizarre to see so many people calling Mat out for this, he's giving actual, tangible, data ere.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
People want to say well of course Xbox doesnt count. Everyone knows its all digital now. Well that wasnt the case just 4 years ago. Kind of a significant shift, and much more rapidly than I think people expected.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah, i'm actually surprised at the 37% figure in just 4 years. That's a bigger drop than I would have anticipated in 2020.
Self_Destructive
Member
Uh... no kidding... He's telling you the trend in the industry in the broadest way possible... because he literally can't tell us the specific information people want him to compare. That information costs money...
Why do people not understand this? Can you explain that to me?
rm082e
Member
Sure, not now. But when would the PS6 realistically launch? Q4 of 2027 would make a seven year generation, just like the PS4. If the trend is less and less physical sales as time goes on, will they still be selling enough physical games at that point that they can't launch without it?
I suspect they won't see enough value by that time. Or if they do, maybe they target $500 with a single disc-less SKU, but you can buy an add-on drive for $100. That way it's technically an option, but they're going further down the path of pushing people into digital.
nial
Gold Member
I think you're overestimating the differences between present time and 3 years from now. But as I said, huge physical presence is still a strong factor for Sony to consider, much more so in markets outside of US.
No, i believe he's using confirmation bias by purposely looking for the biggest difference and intentionally going back to 2019 where all console buyers had a choice of physical and comparing it to "growth" in 2020 and 2021 where there was covid and obviously new consoles released (you would expect growth and nobody going to shops) mix that with around 40% of console owners having that choice of physical removed. He is massaging statistics to what he wants to show. He could have very easily said the pecentage difference between 2023 and the previous year and it wouldn't have looked as dramatic but he is purposely painting a picture and not explaining the why.
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Self_Destructive
Member
What reason would he have to do that?
It's ridiculous that you think he's spinning shit which has no affect on him.
Topher
Gold Member
Too bad we don't know if there was a drop in overall game revenue for consoles between those specific years (and why just those two years?) Piscatella tells us physical dropped 37% but then reverts back to all platforms (console, portable, PC, cloud, non-console VR, subscription and mobile) when stating overall revenue rose 25% from those two years. Another example of how including platforms without physical media skews the narrative.
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bitbydeath
Member
He’s framing it that way but due to him not being able to segregate the data he isn’t able to provide an accurate representation of physical vs digital due to a large number of the mediums included not supporting physical.
For all we know physical has grown on those that do allow for it but due to the other mediums being included it clouds (pun!) the data.
Self_Destructive
Member
I'm well aware of that.. but it doesn't invalidate the data provided. The conclusion formed is still "of the overall percentage of software spend in the US.. physical has fallen from 10% in 2019, to 5% in 2024."
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Fabieter
Member
There is no way for sony to not support it.
I'm not sure, maybe he's trying to justify that all digital future, or his new engagement tracker. It doesn't need to be financially motivated or self serving. His confirmation bias could just be driven by his own ideology.What reason would he have to do that?
It's ridiculous that you think he's spinning shit which has no affect on him.
All I know is that the only reason somebody would go back 4 years to some extreme change in circumstance to show a bigger difference than is currently happening isn't showing a general trend. Showing YoY increases or declines is a "trend", purposely seeking the biggest number in special circumstances and not explaining that reasoning isn't. Comparing it to irrelevant stats like physical vs mtx/mobile/VR to try and make numbers look inconsequentially small isn't showing 'trends' either.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
It's like some out there just want to convince others to stop buying physical games, and some of those actually applaud the idea. I believe when that happens, a portion of consumers will just lose interest in the hobby for good. Let's see those people put a positive spin on that one...
ProtoByte
Member
He's an industry stooge. For years, he's been regurgitating what the wannabe silicon Valley types in the game industry want to hear. Remember when he was stanning for gamepass and subscriptions? Pretending like it was a growth sphere when people with no access to the data that he had called the bet for what it was years ago? I also didn't see him warning that the coof-lockdown spike was just a spike. I didn't see him warning that the live service sphere was saturated.What reason would he have to do that?
It's ridiculous that you think he's spinning shit which has no affect on him.
His interests are mostly ego-based.
rm082e
Member
You're saying there are people who would rather stop playing games if their only option is to buy digital? How many people feel that way? I would guess it's a very teeny tiny fraction.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
And if you're wrong? Will you and others cry about lack of sales for your favorite devs and games? I mean, we've already seen people wanting higher gaming prices already... really makes me wonder if some of those people are just industry shills pretending to be actual gamers of the community.
As for me personally, I won't stop buying altogether, but I will spend significantly less than I do now if I can't have a physical copy. I will only buy digital games at deep sales.
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