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[Self_Destructive]

I'm not sure, maybe he's trying to justify that all digital future, or his new engagement tracker. It doesn't need to be financially motivated or self serving. His confirmation bias could just be driven by his own ideology.

All I know is that the only reason somebody would go back 4 years to some extreme change in circumstance to show a bigger difference than is currently happening isn't showing a general trend. Showing YoY increases or declines is a "trend", purposely seeking the biggest number in special circumstances and not explaining that reasoning isn't. Comparing it to irrelevant stats like physical vs mtx/mobile/VR to try and make numbers look inconsequentially small isn't showing 'trends' either.

I just simply don't believe that. I think it's others ideology which is clouding their ability to just take the information for what it's worth.

A 5 year time span is pretty normal for representing recent trends in an industry.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'm well aware of that.. but it doesn't invalidate the data provided. The conclusion formed is still "of the overall percentage of software spend in the US.. physical has fallen from 10% in 2019, to 5% in 2024."

Or it hasn’t fallen, and digital increased on those where physical isn’t possible.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

LOL he's including mobile what a blatant agenda

Mobile is like 10x the size of traditional consoles in terms of annual revenue

 

[ProtoByte]

GamesIndustry.biz presents... The Year In Numbers 2023

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I would wager that you can attribute some of this physical decline to the platform that is actively delegitimizing it for themselves; and that even some of last year's biggest single player titles (ie Hogwarts and Jedi Survivor) made buying their games on discs basically pointless. And then you had Alan Wake 2 which absolutely cut a massive chunk of its sales potential out not having a physical version at all.

My opinion is that physical sales will stick around the 15-20% of the console overall revenue space. The decline in the %-change has slowed massively. And given that you're adding on DLC, MTX, battle passes and such onto that total, that's not a bad or insignificant number of game sales.

The industry can try to wish away physical games all it likes. As long as simple player games are still here, they'll be massively important. The industry isn't going to cut itself out of 8-10 billion yearly dollars. Even cutting that in half wouldn't do it, given how concentrated that money is. It goes directly to either Sony or Nintendo, and whomever is publishing a single player AAA game. And if you haven't noticed, that's a slimming number.

 

[rm082e]

And if you're wrong? Will you and others cry about lack of sales for your favorite devs and games? I mean, we've already seen people wanting higher gaming prices already... really makes me wonder if some of those people are just industry shills pretending to be actual gamers of the community.

I'm not saying I'm right - no ego involved for me. Hell, I could be all kinds of wrong. If so, I'll own it.

But I would say this has already played out on the PC, and everything worked out just fine. The PC gaming user base grew by orders of magnitude after it went all digital. Consoles are different, but I don't see why it's an intractable issue for them.

I'm consistently surprised by the fear mongering around digital (they're gonna take away all they stuff you paid for!), or the strong man narrative around physical (gamers will revolt if they take it from us!). The Xbox One had a terrible approach because they tried to have it both ways with the required online check-in. But that was an isolated bad decision on their part. I've never heard any PC players complain about the digital ecosystem. This only seems to be a conversation on the console side.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Or it hasn’t fallen, and digital increased on those where physical isn’t possible.

No, the result is the same. It has indeed fallen in the overall context.

 

[bitbydeath]

No, the result is the same. It has indeed fallen in the overall context.

If it’s not existing in that market then it doesn’t fall, as there is nothing to fall from. It may have in fact grown overall, but due to how other areas were included that have nothing to do with physical we won’t see a true representation of the data.

 

[Self_Destructive]

If it’s not existing in that market then it doesn’t fall, as there is nothing to fall from. It may have in fact grown overall, but due to how other areas were included that have nothing to do with physical we won’t see a true representation of the data.

That's not how things work. If every other aspect of software spend grows.. and physical stays the same... it's still a decline in percentage of physical overall spending.

 

[bitbydeath]

That's not how things work. If every other aspect of software spend grows.. and physical stays the same... it's still a decline in percentage of physical overall spending.

That just shows how useless the data is then right? You may as well be including board games in the mix too.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'm not saying I'm right - no ego involved for me. Hell, I could be all kinds of wrong. If so, I'll own it.

But I would say this has already played out on the PC, and everything worked out just fine. The PC gaming user base grew by orders of magnitude after it went all digital. Consoles are different, but I don't see why it's an intractable issue for them.

I'm consistently surprised by the fear mongering around digital (they're gonna take away all they stuff you paid for!), or the strong man narrative around physical (gamers will revolt if they take it from us!). The Xbox One had a terrible approach because they tried to have it both ways with the required online check-in. But that was an isolated bad decision on their part. I've never heard any PC players complain about the digital ecosystem. This only seems to be a conversation on the console side.

On PC they control users with the mandatory client drm. That's why I hate Steam, they say you can play games offline but only after you jump through hoops to turn something off in the settings but then it only lasts for a limited time, then you have to go back online and do it again. At least that's how it was when I was using Steam. Plus it constantly asked for multiple repeated steps like codes sent to my email or phone, so logging in to play became a real pain in the ass.

That's just one or two issues with letting companies have total control on how you play. I remember wanting to try the latest Capcom game where you take on waves of dinosaurs (can't think of the name) but it wouldn't let me play until I made a Capcom ID, and this was on consoles. Same thing happened with Redfall and Bethesda. Ubi constantly bothers people for their Uplay IDs etc. and I have a large book of emails and IDs to keep up with and I fucking hate that crap when I just want to play a game.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Why even include PC, mobile, and VR in this data? It makes no sense.

Because as the title says its about “all videogame spending”?

 

[Self_Destructive]

That just shows how useless the data is then right? You may as well be including board games in the mix too.

The data isn't useless... It shows that the percentage of money spent on physical software is declining in the overall software market of the US.

The data is only useless if you're looking for different answers than it's providing.

Instead of people trying to discredit Mat... they should simply say "Well, that doesn't tell us if the split between physical and digital sales on consoles has changed even further in favor of digital" and move along.

There's no conspiracy here. That information is worth money.. and Mat is basically, IMO, doing his best to give us an idea of the trends of the industry without compromising his companies ability to run a business.

 

[THE DUCK]

It sure doesn’t help physical when one of the three main console platform holders is actively trying to kill it off

Right, it has zero to do with what consumers actually prefer. Do you vilify Steam while you are at it? If memory serves, PC phsical media died without the assitance of any console manufacturer.......same with movies, same with tv shows, same with music......
But lets blame one console manufactuer for the fact that most kids today have never even touched a disk.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I’m not sure who this gent is, but he is essentially saying that burgers are the most sold items at fast food establishments, because sonic is the only one with hotdogs. Even though they are the only ones whose been selling them.

Damn it, those hotdogs are a dying breed.

However, if you count where they sell them like grocery stores, they sell a good amount.

 

[Punished Miku]

It's like some out there just want to convince others to stop buying physical games, and some of those actually applaud the idea. I believe when that happens, a portion of consumers will just lose interest in the hobby for good. Let's see those people put a positive spin on that one...

I dont care what anyone buys really. Just calling obvious trends as I see it. No one here can influence broad societal trends over a decade by just talking here.

 

[bitbydeath]

It shows that the percentage of money spent on physical software is declining in the overall software market of the US.

It doesn’t show that.

There are three outcomes here:
1. Physical sales are decreasing, digital is increasing
2. Physical sales are staying the same, digital is increasing
3. Physical sales are increasing, digital is increasing.

The only one we can be sure of is digital is increasing, how physical sales are going cannot be determined by the data provided.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Cutting out physical would be a bad idea for consoles, because if that metric of 17% physical overall sales is still almost 1/5 of that market. Removing that would lead to even more layoffs.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

Does "software spending" include micro transactions? Because that spending ballooning over the past few years would obviously make physical spending appear smaller in proportion.

 

[Rayderism]

Doesn't help when many games simply don't have a physical release.

 

[rm082e]

On PC they control users with the mandatory client drm. That's why I hate Steam, they say you can play games offline but only after you jump through hoops to turn something off in the settings but then it only lasts for a limited time, then you have to go back online and do it again. At least that's how it was when I was using Steam. Plus it constantly asked for multiple repeated steps like codes sent to my email or phone, so logging in to play became a real pain in the ass.

That's just one or two issues with letting companies have total control on how you play. I remember wanting to try the latest Capcom game where you take on waves of dinosaurs (can't think of the name) but it wouldn't let me play until I made a Capcom ID, and this was on consoles. Same thing happened with Redfall and Bethesda. Ubi constantly bothers people for their Uplay IDs etc. and I have a large book of emails and IDs to keep up with and I fucking hate that crap when I just want to play a game.

I share my game accounts for Steam and PSN with my son. In order for us both to be able to play games at the same time on the same account, I just go offline since I only play single player games. I spend nearly 100% of my play time in offline mode. It's never been a problem for me. It takes two button clicks on Steam, and turning off the network connection in the menu on PlayStation. AFAIK, I can stay offline for as long as I want without having to reconnect to the network. I know I've been offline for at least 60+ days on both ecosystems without ever being asked to connect to the network or re-enter account credentials.

Steam does have 2-factor authentication, but it's in the app that's on your phone. It's called Steam Guard, and it's mostly used when you login with your account on a different storefront, or on a new hardware device like the Steam Deck. You don't need it just to play games your machine outside of a first time sign in. It's the same app I use to make purchases and browse the store, so no big deal. I think I've had to use Steam Guard maybe a dozen times over the last 10 years?

As for all the linked accounts, just about all of those would let you skip creating a login for the publisher's database if you just hit cancel. Not all of them, but most. I think one or two of those that required it previously have now made it optional. But even if you get the game on a disc for your console, they still try to get your email address and pester you with nag emails.

I can see taking a stand against games that have always online requirements for single-player content, or against publishers who require you to give them your info and create an account for their service. But that's not Steam or PSN.

 

[March Climber]

And that is why they won't force a sudden change in the next generation, you can't just do it without expecting a huge alienation from both users and retailers. On paper it sounds like an incredible situation for Sony, but it is not possible without making huge commitments; day 1 in GP is a big example, and you know they will never do that.

It depends on if there is any slight physical format change. If there is a slight change, backwards compat through digital will be their way out.

 

[Self_Destructive]

It doesn’t show that.

It quite literally does, I assure you lol

Like I said.. It's a percentage of a whole. Physical could actually grow... but if digital grows to a greater degree... the percentage of spend on physical.. would indeed be lower compared to previous years.

 

[bitbydeath]

Physical could actually grow... but digital could grow to a greater decree...

I agree on this.

and thus the percentage of spend on physical.. would indeed be lower.

But not this, if physical grew then the spend on physical would be higher.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I share my game accounts for Steam and PSN with my son. In order for us both to be able to play games at the same time on the same account, I just go offline since I only play single player games. I spend nearly 100% of my play time in offline mode. It's never been a problem for me. It takes two button clicks on Steam, and turning off the network connection in the menu on PlayStation. AFAIK, I can stay offline for as long as I want without having to reconnect to the network. I know I've been offline for at least 60+ days on both ecosystems without ever being asked to connect to the network or re-enter account credentials.

Steam does have 2-factor authentication, but it's in the app that's on your phone. It's called Steam Guard, and it's mostly used when you login with your account on a different storefront, or on a new hardware device like the Steam Deck. You don't need it just to play games your machine outside of a first time sign in. It's the same app I use to make purchases and browse the store, so no big deal. I think I've had to use Steam Guard maybe a dozen times over the last 10 years?

As for all the linked accounts, just about all of those would let you skip creating a login for the publisher's database if you just hit cancel. Not all of them, but most. I think one or two of those that required it previously have now made it optional. But even if you get the game on a disc for your console, they still try to get your email address and pester you with nag emails.

I can see taking a stand against games that have always online requirements for single-player content, or against publishers who require you to give them your info and create an account for their service. But that's not Steam or PSN.

If my PSN ID, XBOX ID and Nintendo IDs aren't enough, the I'm going to pass on games that require extra IDs etc.

 

[Self_Destructive]

I agree on this.


But not this, if physical grew then the spend on physical would be higher.

It's a percentage... the pie gets bigger, but the percent of the pie for physical would still be smaller.

 

[IntentionalPun]

People needing basic math explained to them in this thread is killing me.

It’s a metric that isn’t useless but it is certainly only part of the picture.

But he kinda tells the rest of the picture in the other tweets?

But you have to be in denial to think physical sales aren’t tanking. It says right in his tweets spending is down nearly 40% on physical on the same time period.

 

[Arsic]

“Hey Mat. How many dicks you ever sucked?” “Pretty low to be honest.”

This guy is a full blown retard.

 

[Edmund]

Why does Matt Piscatella remind me of the old man from UP so much.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Did people miss this part of the teeets?

2023 US spending on physical video game software was 37% lower than it was in 2019.

 

[Three]

Does "software spending" include micro transactions? Because that spending ballooning over the past few years would obviously make physical spending appear smaller in proportion.

Yes, it includes everything including mobile. This could make even digital game sales look like they've decreased to less than 10% since 2019.

Did people miss this part of the teeets?

Nobody missed it and people have discussed why he chose that date.

 

[Jaybe]

Right, it has zero to do with what consumers actually prefer. Do you vilify Steam while you are at it? If memory serves, PC phsical media died without the assitance of any console manufacturer.......same with movies, same with tv shows, same with music......
But lets blame one console manufactuer for the fact that most kids today have never even touched a disk.

Well, I think my statement considering the console side of the equation is correct, but it seems like you’re a tad sensitive about it

 

[NickFire]

Throwing out the percentage when factoring in mobile devices, etc., seems useless to me beyond getting attention. Equally unsure why it gets attention.The decline of physical is obvious and will continue.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Nobody missed it and people have discussed why he chose that date.

Almost the entire thread is arguing about the 10% / 5% number and ignoring he stated how much the spending dropped recently.

I see your post about 2019 and I guess… Series S? You really think that somehow attributed to a 37% drop in physical spend?

That’s a pretty wild assumption. Series S exists because so many gamers adopted digital only in the first place. Same with PS5 digital.

And really that doesn’t change the numbers either way. Not even sure what the point is of pointing that out, physical took a huge drop on the last 5 years.

I’ll counter your IMO pointless statement about all digital consoles with:

Game prices went up to $70 this gen for most AAA games for most of that 2019-2013 time span. A > 15% increase in price for most physical games….

 

[Three]

I see your post about 2019 and I guess… Series S? You really think that somehow attributed to a 37% drop in physical spend?

That’s a pretty wild assumption. Series S exists because so many gamers adopted digital only in the first place. Same with PS5 digital.

And really that doesn’t change the numbers either way. Not even sure what the point is of pointing that out, physical took a huge drop on the last 5 years.

US only, why is that surprising. I think having a major console manufacturer remove the physical option and simultaneously push subs along with covid resulted in a significant decrease in physical spend. Especially when comparing to 2020, 2021. I don't think the drop from 2022 to 2023 is as dramatic as he's making out, though I'm sure there was still a decrease.

I’ll counter your IMO pointless statement about all digital consoles with:

Game prices went up to $70 this gen for most AAA games for most of that 2019-2013 time span.

You mean 2023? So did digital game prices. Are you saying they decreased too? I don't understand your point.

 

[bitbydeath]

It's a percentage... the pie gets bigger, but the percent of the pie for physical would still be smaller.

The pie is irrelevant as it’s pulling from areas where both do not exist. You may as well compare Physical vs Digital game sales from retailers.

 

[IntentionalPun]

You mean 2023? So did digital game prices. Are you saying they decreased too? I don't understand your point.

Yeah sorry 2023.

I’m confused why you are confused. Digital doesn’t matter when discussing the 37% drop in spending for physical. If the average game price went up AND total spend went down… that’s doubly indicative.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Well, I think my statement considering the console side of the equation is correct, but it seems like you’re a tad sensitive about it

Point is, your posts are antagonistic and warrior like for no reason. People here get banned all the time for that warrior shit.

 

[Three]

Yeah sorry 2023.

I’m confused why you are confused. Digital doesn’t matter when discussing the 37% drop in spending for physical. If the average game price went up AND total spend went down… that’s doubly indicative.

Price going up for digital and physical can result in possibly more revenue (or not depending on if you push people away from buying software and into subs) but I'm not sure what that has to do with physical specifically.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I am not sure why anyone is cheering for physical to go away. What kind of reward are you getting out of it?

The only people who benefit from no physical games is publishers. Last I checked this isn't a publisher's forum. There is nothing to be excited about decline of physical games.

Edit: Wait, is it ENTIRELY due to the console wars? Are people only cheering because they think Xbox wins if physical gaming dies? Are people THAT pathetic?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I am not sure why anyone is cheering for physical to go away. What kind of reward are you getting out of it?

The only people who benefit from no physical games is publishers. Last I checked this isn't a publisher's forum. There is nothing to be excited about decline of physical games.

Some people just love spreading their cheeks for the digital future, what can you do

It's actually becoming enough of a problem that publishers are still printing physical copies for Europe and Asia markets where sales are still 70% physical, but they are only releasing digital in North America for smaller games. They have North American gamers right where they want them in terms of you owning nothing and being happy

 

[Arsic]

Some people just love spreading their cheeks for the digital future, what can you do

It's actually becoming enough of a problem that publishers are still printing physical copies for Europe and Asia markets where sales are still 70% physical, but they are only releasing digital in North America for smaller games. They have North American gamers right where they want them in terms of you owning nothing and being happy

At this point even games you do own physical have a high chance of not working when you put them in as time goes on.

If a SP game needs an internet connection, stops being supported, or had massive necessary patches etc that disc is worthless.

Basically we are at the point of anything PS3 and prior is a good bet to keep physical of.

Anything after is a toss up on if it’ll actually work and for how long. Exception being Nintendo.

 

[Topher]

I am not sure why anyone is cheering for physical to go away. What kind of reward are you getting out of it?

The only people who benefit from no physical games is publishers. Last I checked this isn't a publisher's forum. There is nothing to be excited about decline of physical games.

Edit: Wait, is it ENTIRELY due to the console wars? Are people only cheering because they think Xbox wins if physical gaming dies? Are people THAT pathetic?

There may be some warring involved with all this nonsense, but digital vs physical is one of those fights that crosses typical tribal lines. Kind of like the 30 vs 60 fps fight.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

At this point even games you do own physical have a high chance of not working when you put them in as time goes on.

If a SP game needs an internet connection, stops being supported, or had massive necessary patches etc that disc is worthless.

Basically we are at the point of anything PS3 and prior is a good bet to keep physical of.

Anything after is a toss up on if it’ll actually work and for how long. Exception being Nintendo.

If by "toss up" you mean around 90% of games will work then sure whatever

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Both Sony and Nintendo are like this as it turns out, I'm sure the remaining 10% is mostly yearly sports games and Call of Duty and things like that where there is no expectation the game will work by the time the next yearly installment comes around

 

[THE DUCK]

Well, I think my statement considering the console side of the equation is correct, but it seems like you’re a tad sensitive about it

Maybe, since it's 2024 and the writing is on the wall. Watch the sky fall when the ps6 has no drive. I'd probably be more megnanamous if the other side on the physical vs digital debate were not so .......dismissive of the real benefits it offers and the fact that most consumers prefer it.

You also can't just lay the blame at one console manufacturers feet when the competition has its own digital skew that costs less and a digital streaming service that encourages digital renting and ownership.

 

[Jaybe]

Point is, your posts are antagonistic and warrior like for no reason. People here get banned all the time for that warrior shit.

We can call out bad things platforms do and this was in context of the post. Sony is called out on their issues like refunds and cloud saves for example and Nintendo on their emulation take downs. Seems like you have a persecution complex.

 

[Arsic]

If by "toss up" you mean around 90% of games will work then sure whatever

DoesItPlay? - Home

Working to ensure games remain accessible now and always!

www.doesitplay.org

Both Sony and Nintendo are like this as it turns out, I'm sure the remaining 10% is mostly yearly sports games and Call of Duty and things like that where there is no expectation the game will work by the time the next yearly installment comes around

If by "toss up" you mean around 90% of games will work then sure whatever

DoesItPlay? - Home

Working to ensure games remain accessible now and always!

www.doesitplay.org

Both Sony and Nintendo are like this as it turns out, I'm sure the remaining 10% is mostly yearly sports games and Call of Duty and things like that where there is no expectation the game will work by the time the next yearly installment comes around

Well that’s way better than I thought. Hope it stays that way.

 

[Jaybe]

Maybe, since it's 2024 and the writing is on the wall. Watch the sky fall when the ps6 has no drive. I'd probably be more megnanamous if the other side on the physical vs digital debate were not so .......dismissive of the real benefits it offers and the fact that most consumers prefer it.

You also can't just lay the blame at one console manufacturers feet when the competition has its own digital skew that costs less and a digital streaming service that encourages digital renting and ownership.

Genuine question: Beyond game sharing, the fact that your digital copy will not get scratched, and not having to put a disk in, are there other benefits you can educate me on?

 

[THE DUCK]

There may be some warring involved with all this nonsense, but digital vs physical is one of those fights that crosses typical tribal lines. Kind of like the 30 vs 60 fps fight.

Wait, you play at 30? Not on my watch......
Just kidding, if you want your eyes to bleed that's your choice. Actually, I used to be a 30fps is just fine person......lately I can't seem to go back........

Also waring is one thing, debate is still valid. One thing that drives me crazy on this forum is so many things be labeled as "console waring" when the debate happens to involve 2 consoles or 2 companies. One can have a position on either side without it being a console war.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

There may be some warring involved with all this nonsense, but digital vs physical is one of those fights that crosses typical tribal lines. Kind of like the 30 vs 60 fps fight.

But console wars at least have an antagonistic angle. As in there is financial investment that could be lost. What exactly is the pro-digital camp even cheering FOR?

Also waring is one thing, debate is still valid. One thing that drives me crazy on this forum is so many things be labeled as "console waring" when the debate happens to involve 2 consoles or 2 companies. One can have a position on either side without it being a console war.

Only one console declared that physical is already dead. Despite it bringing them no advantage, the supporters of that console tried to defend that position with no benefit to themselves. Because it is the company stance and thus needed to be cheered for.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

We can call out bad things platforms do and this was in context of the post. Sony is called out on their issues like refunds and cloud saves for example and Nintendo on their emulation take downs. Seems like you have a persecution complex.

Nah, I just like it here because (most) people here are chill. Gamefax and Gamespot forums are full of warriors. This place is much better because the tolerance for petty fanboyism is low.