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[Mumei]

Do you judge albums based on how many tracks they have too? Art isn't necessarily about sheer quantity, is it?

It feels like this attitude devalues comics as a medium, meaning they're something that's only valuable in the present upon release as opposed to the work that will last for generations if it's quality is good enough. It's easy to get caught up in the week to week, but we have to remember that we're actually just a percentage of the total possible audience if the work is good enough to stand the test of time. Do you think it matters now that #12 of Watchmen was a couple of months late?

I can understand how frequent and extended delays can cause you to lose interest in a comic, especially when a new issue is so quickly read. I've experienced it with Berserk, waiting for months - almost a year or longer in some cases - for a new issue that takes fifteen minutes to read. It's just difficult for me to keep my interest in reading something in relatively unsatisfying fifteen minute chunks every few months.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting bored with something that is taking too long between issue releases; just drop it off your radar until it either finishes or a new trade comes out or until there are enough new issues that you feel like you're reading something substantial.

I'm definitely not in the "per issue" camp, though. It's possible that an individual issue can be weaker taken in isolation, but still make the work as a whole stronger for its presence.

 

[PsychBat!]

I'm looking forward to the next issue of New Avengers, to see exactly how they interact with the Great Society.

Spoiler

Does the last page imply that there will be a direct confrontation between the 616 Avengers and the Great Society?

Hm, well this is the cover of the next issue.

 

[Storm Chamber]

TV shows typically give me an hour of content every week vs. 20 pages that can often times be read in less than 15 minutes once per month.

Thanks for typing that so I didn't have to.

You got a short attention span, dude. The breaks generally happen after an arc is complete, and you get the added bonus of having the original creators telling the stories they want to tell. No fill-ins, no bullshit, no Khoi Pham.

Saga and Hawkeye take months off at a time, but a short attention span...alright.

 

[Mafro]

New Avengers: I'm finding this story a little muddled in that I don't really know what the

Spoiler

DC analogues are doing other than being heroic and shit. I take it that they have some positive way of dealing with the incursions but I have no idea what it is, because it looks like they're blowing stuff up to me. I really liked the stuff with Namor and T'Challa however.

Yeah they have previously

Spoiler

defeated the Black Priests and now the the robot guys who are the servants of the Mapmakers. All the other alternate worlds the Illuminati have observed have seen the alternate New Avengers defeated by those enemies. Presumably the 616 New Avengers will go to their world for help/advice.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Can't really answer the first one because I'm not really into music. I think I own like four albums total. But I disagree: Comics absolutely deserve to be judged on a per issue basis. If you wanted to avoid being judged for delays then don't do a monthly book. Go straight to trade. Nor should enthusiasts not be allowed to judge a book either just because they may be a smaller overall percentage of the audience in the long run because they are often the very reason a book is able to happen in the first place. Without their support many titles wouldn't even get finished, or have the word of mouth, to become breakout hits.

Well yeah, comics are kinda fractal like that, you can judge a run, an arc, an issue, a page, a panel... it's all good. But they shouldn't be judged on their timeliness. As soon as the issue hits the stand it's moot, it exists to be appreciated and the wait is irrelevant to the content of the book within a week or a month.

 

[PsychBat!]

Saga and Hawkeye take months off at a time, but a short attention span...alright.

You bring in the laughs.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Well yeah, comics are kinda fractal like that, you can judge a run, an arc, an issue, a page, a panel... it's all good. But they shouldn't be judged on their timeliness. As soon as the issue hits the stand it's moot, it exists to be appreciated and the wait is irrelevant to the content of the book within a week or a month.

I agree with you on this point: I think judging on a per page or panel basis typically exists more in the extreme, that is, when it's either really good or timeless, or really bad. Usually, a book is going to be judged per issue and per arc more than anything else and then finally for the entire run if applicable. I personally will typically judge issue/run.

And maybe this is controversial but... sometimes I think varying up an artist on a run can actually be beneficial. Yes, certain series will benefit from having one artistic vision throughout, but I don't believe that different art will inherently ruin the experience, especially if that alternate artist is chosen carefully to either contrast to the main artist or supplement and focus in a different area.

 

[PsychBat!]

Yeah they have previously

Spoiler

defeated the Black Priests and now the the robot guys who are the servants of the Mapmakers. All the other alternate worlds the Illuminati have observed have seen the alternate New Avengers defeated by those enemies. Presumably the 616 New Avengers will go to their world for help/advice.

IF that's the case, then Strange fucks it all up.

 

[Storm Chamber]

You bring in the laughs.

Are they still the holy grail of comics?

My bad

 

[Lum1n3s]

Anyone going to be up on that Original Sin as well as any recommendations towards it? I ended up having #0 in my subscription box at my local comic book store, they put it in there thinking I would want it and I passed on it but apparently they ended up putting it in someone else's box because they had requested it and weren't able to get any for him seeing as how it sold out. Is it going to be popular or something?

 

[PsychBat!]

Are they still the holy grail of comics?

My bad

Never said that. I dropped Saga and I think Daredevil is better than Hawkeye.

 

[woodypop]

Hm, well this is the cover of the next issue.

Yeah, I was confused if it's actually the 616 Avengers, because Reed's costume looks different between that picture and the last page of the current issue.

 

[Storm Chamber]

Never said that. I dropped Saga and I think Daredevil is better than Hawkeye.

Cool, just checking.

There are people online that'll take a bullet for those books

 

[GAMEPROFF]

New Avengers looks extremly interesting. I think I really have to pick up all this stuff from Hickman.

 

[arkon]

I'd rather wait and get consistent creative teams especially on creator-owned stuff where they can do pretty much what they want. If they get to the point where it's taking too long for me to wait then I can just come back to them at a later date in trades. The other option is the filler art which will be there forever. No thanks

 

[Dan]

And maybe this is controversial but... sometimes I think varying up an artist on a run can actually be beneficial. Yes, certain series will benefit from having one artistic vision throughout, but I don't believe that different art will inherently ruin the experience, especially if that alternate artist is chosen carefully to either contrast to the main artist or supplement and focus in a different area.

That's a big and important distinction that runs counter to the common Marvel/DC standard of fill-ins and/or arbitrarily rotating artists.

I would also say I don't think it's ideal to force a writer to construct their story and structures to include single issues or short arcs that can take smart advantage of a different artist solely for the sake of not taking hiatuses in shipping. If that occurs naturally or the writer has the occasional neat idea to allow the series to continue shipping, give the regular artist a break, and contribute something worthwhile to the series... hey, by all means.

That's all to say I would much prefer creative desires drive these decisions, in either direction, rather than the monthly schedule.

 

[ReAxion]

I don't understand those who lose interest cuz of delays. It seems like that would make it so that you'd like something bad that's had its run completely published more than something that's better but is delayed because you have to wait.

To me, it's a simple question: did I like the story, or did I not?

 

[Messi]

Saga can keep taking 4 month breaks at the end of arcs if it stays the same quality in writing and art.

 

[GrandHarrier]

I don't understand those who lose interest cuz of delays. It seems like that would make it so that you'd like something bad that's had its run completely published more than something that's better but is delayed because you have to wait.

To me, it's a simple question: did I like the story, or did I not?

Delays don't inherently make a book better though. For example, I thought that Saga #1-12 were good but that the more recent #13-18 haven't been nearly the same level of quality. The delay between those two arcs didn't make it any better, in my opinion.

Saga can keep taking 4 month breaks at the end of arcs if it stays the same quality in writing and art.

Except that the most recent arc was kinda bland tbh. Give me more like #1-12.

 

[Filthy Slug]

Thanks for typing that so I didn't have to.



Saga and Hawkeye take months off at a time, but a short attention span...alright.

Right...at the end of arcs. So you've got a solid chapter of a work that was on time with consistent (high) quality. Then the creators take a few months off (never absurd amounts of time) and you get another chapter. Again, I'd rather this method than rushing out a book every month just because a schedule is somehow more important than quality of writing/art.

As for Hawkeye, we're talking about Image titles specifically which follow a pattern for release. Hawkeye is a completely different matter as there's no consistency to its release/downtime and the story suffers because arcs weren't created with these down-periods in mind. So it's not really useful for this specific discussion.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

This has to be one of the worst looking xmen covers I've seen yet



In other news...I'm at uncanny Xmen #223. I swear this series just keeps getting better and better. Love Storm and Wolverines solo stories.

In the context of the nightmare hallucinations of that issue, the cover makes sense.

Also, you're right on the cusp of the outback era, get hype

 

[Dan]

Delays don't inherently make a book better though. For example, I thought that Saga #1-12 were good but that the more recent #13-18 haven't been nearly the same level of quality. The delay between those two arcs didn't make it any better, in my opinion.

Are you suggesting the quality would have been better without a delay?

 

[GrandHarrier]

Are you suggesting the quality would have been better without a delay?

No I just said that the delay didn't make it better. It was actually a worse arc than the two that came before it; I don't know if this is because the newness to them and me is wearing off, they don't have as much of a cohesive direction, or the focus of the arc wasn't an interesting one. I believe, but obviously cannot prove, that a much shorter delay would have been more appropriate as a balance between taking the time to catch up and not making fans of the series wait so long. I haven't done it yet, but every delay makes me consider dropping the single issues, and just get it in trade. I just love the weekly/monthly comic experience.

 

[Supermanisdead]

The Cyclops preview is sick. Teen Cyclops is the breakout star of All New Marvel.

 

[tim1138]

Stupid awesome Cyclops, just when I was ready to drop most of my Marvel stuff and wait for it to hit Unlimited.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

This has to be one of the worst looking xmen covers I've seen yet

wtf this cover is a stone cold CLASSIC.

 

[tim1138]

wtf this cover is a stone cold CLASSIC.

Forgive him Benjamin, he knows not what he says.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Yeah they have previously

Spoiler

defeated the Black Priests and now the the robot guys who are the servants of the Mapmakers. All the other alternate worlds the Illuminati have observed have seen the alternate New Avengers defeated by those enemies. Presumably the 616 New Avengers will go to their world for help/advice.

Spoiler

Doubt they're going there for advice. Last issue made it seem like 616 is just the next Earth to bump uglies with their world.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Batman Eternal #3 and 4 were great! I'm loving everything about this series. It's just moving and has the right amount of action, story and intrigue; I'm loving the weekly format of it, especially as I never been a part of a weekly story line.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I haven't plugged X-Men: Lifedeath in a very long time. Are you looking for sincere, heartfelt drama, high-paced action and top-tier art? Do you get bored with the unending nonsense being peddled by modern day DC and Marvel? Do you believe Storm & Forge to be the greatest love story of the 20th century? If so, get X-Men: Lifedeath now!

It's still the greatest single issue ever written. Still available as part of the Lifedeath HC on Amazon!

 

[Messi]

Delays don't inherently make a book better though. For example, I thought that Saga #1-12 were good but that the more recent #13-18 haven't been nearly the same level of quality. The delay between those two arcs didn't make it any better, in my opinion.



Except that the most recent arc was kinda bland tbh. Give me more like #1-12.

I'd rather them take breaks than have fill in artists or burn out on the book. I really dug the most recent arc, sure it's not at the same level as the first two but it's still good. It also flows really well as a trade. But so did the first two.

I honestly think the breaks are to avoid burnout.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Hmm. Which piece of shit to read first: Teen Titans #30 or Catwoman #30.

These are the sort of decisions I have to make today.

 

[KoruptData]

The problem with delays in the comic industry is there is always cool shit coming out. People question if they want to go through the monotony that long running series seem to go through. Like Fables, Walking Dead, etc. Saga is great now but can that quality sustain over the course of 100 issues?

 

[Filthy Slug]

The problem with delays in the comic industry is there is always cool shit coming out. People question if they want to go through the monotony that long running series seem to go through. Like Fables, Walking Dead, etc. Saga is great now but can that quality sustain over the course of 100 issues?

Few creator-owned series can sustain quality over 100 issues. In fact, I can't name a single one. 100 Bullets may be the closest, but even that felt stretched out just to make 100 issues for the 100 bullets.

I think Brian K Vaughn is smart enough to know when to end the series, unlike, say, Bill Willingham.

 

[ReAxion]

Delays don't inherently make a book better though. For example, I thought that Saga #1-12 were good but that the more recent #13-18 haven't been nearly the same level of quality. The delay between those two arcs didn't make it any better, in my opinion.

I just feel that the delays don't make it better or worse, in cases where they're not just trying to hit a release schedule because of some mandate, of course. The story being told should be king, always.

No I just said that the delay didn't make it better. It was actually a worse arc than the two that came before it; I don't know if this is because the newness to them and me is wearing off, they don't have as much of a cohesive direction, or the focus of the arc wasn't an interesting one. I believe, but obviously cannot prove, that a much shorter delay would have been more appropriate as a balance between taking the time to catch up and not making fans of the series wait so long. I haven't done it yet, but every delay makes me consider dropping the single issues, and just get it in trade. I just love the weekly/monthly comic experience.

I agree that it wasn't as good of an arc, and I'd say it was the focus of it, for me. Personally I think that just says how good the first arc was, also.

I also don't understand the dropping of a book during a delay. It's not doing anything to make the story better or worse! And if delays are bad for you, waiting an additional 5-6 months after a delay for a story I like seems like a terrible prison sentence. All the usual caveats about personal preference apply here, of course; no rights or wrongs, and all that. I'm just sayin I don't get it, is all.

 

[Messi]

Hmm. Which piece of shit to read first: Teen Titans #30 or Catwoman #30.

These are the sort of decisions I have to make today.

Catwoman. Let's talk about it after.

 

[KoruptData]

Catwoman. Let's talk about it after.

My wife was on the couch last night and she opened it up and started reading. Few minutes later and she lets out the "ugggg, this is terrible". Then I ask if I can drop it and she finally said yes! Called the LCS at opening today and told them to axe it!

 

[Onemic]

I haven't plugged X-Men: Lifedeath in a very long time. Are you looking for sincere, heartfelt drama, high-paced action and top-tier art? Do you get bored with the unending nonsense being peddled by modern day DC and Marvel? Do you believe Storm & Forge to be the greatest love story of the 20th century? If so, get X-Men: Lifedeath now!

It's still the greatest single issue ever written. Still available as part of the Lifedeath HC on Amazon!

Loved this issue as well as Lifedeath II. Probably one of the best Uncannt Xmen issues I've read so far

Only thing I dont get is the whole 'love' angle. Maybe because I skipped issues 177-185, but it seems like Storm and Forge haven't known each other for more than what seems a few days and already Claremont is pushing the whole love thing between the two really hard. Not that I mind(considering he did the same with xavier and Lilandra) just an observation more than anything.

wtf this cover is a stone cold CLASSIC.

I guess if you like ugly looking art.

I mean, it makes sense considering what's going on, just dont dig the art style.

 

[Messi]

My wife was on the couch last night and she opened it up and started reading. Few minutes later and she lets out the "ugggg, this is terrible". Then I ask if I can drop it and she finally said yes! Called the LCS at opening today and told them to axe it!

You Sir have made a huge mistake. Eternal is going to fix everything. You will see. Please .

 

[TetraxShards]

Saga's delays are okay, Hawkeye's delays are not. Communication is the key, plus with Saga they want to keep the same artist.

I have gotten three people hooked on Saga from the Humble Bundle so far. It's been a good few days.

 

[KoruptData]

You Sir have made a huge mistake. Eternal is going to fix everything. You will see. Please .

If they change creative teams, I'll be glad to add it back on. We are not supporting AN!

 

[woodypop]

wtf this cover is a stone cold CLASSIC.

Wut? Classic in what sense?

Cover's blecch. Never liked Brett Blevin's stuff. (I believe that's who did it.)

 

[Messi]

If they change creative teams, I'll be glad to add it back on. We are not supporting AN!

I hope all your favorite books get cancelled

Spoiler

ALL OF THEM

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Does anywhere know where Wayne Manor is in relation to Gotham City?

#3 on the map.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Catwoman. Let's talk about it after.

Nocenti writing what I am thinking. First page too. She is a savant.

 

[KoruptData]

I hope all your favorite books get cancelled

Spoiler

ALL OF THEM

Messi, I would like to take a lesson from yours and mine friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Peter Parker learns early on, "with GREAT power, comes......." yeah you know. We have great power Messi, it's called the all-mighty dollar. With this dollar, we have to use it wisely or bad, evil things can happen. We can empower someone like Ann Nocenti. She is evil and vile and us heros with our power need to stand up against her.

If Spider-man is not your thing, then take a hint from Selina Kyle. Would she buy it? Fuck no she wouldn't. At best, she would steal it, she would steal every copy and shred it up and give it to an elementary school so they can make some cool paper mâché on craft day.

Do the right thing Messi.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Wut? Classic in what sense?

Cover's blecch. Never liked Brett Blevin's stuff. (I believe that's who did it.)

blevins is a saint

 

[Filthy Slug]

Messi, I would like to take a lesson from yours and mine friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Peter Parker learns early on, "with GREAT power, comes......." yeah you know. We have great power Messi, it's called the all-mighty dollar. With this dollar, we have to use it wisely or bad, evil things can happen. We can empower someone like Ann Nocenti. She is evil and vile and us heros with our power need to stand up against her.

If Spider-man is not your thing, then take a hint from Selina Kyle. Would she buy it? Fuck no she wouldn't. At best, she would steal it, she would steal every copy and shred it up and give it to an elementary school so they can make some cool paper mâché on craft day.

Do the right thing Messi.

Messi's not from 'round here. Dude don't know what a dollar is.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I liked Amazing Spiderman. Laughed my ass off at the "That's Parker" moment.

 

[Messi]

Messi's not from 'round here. Dude don't know what a dollar is.

May as well disregard the whole post. It's clearly meant for an American. I don't use monopoly money.