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Corbyn: Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have funded and fueled extremist ideology
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
We're speaking about ISIS/Al Qaida, not the talibans. They are ideologically distinct and don't have the same political methodology, even if they are both equally disgusting.
For the record, i think that Saudi Arabia is as worse as ISIS. Bringing complexity is not defending.
Angelus Errare
Banned
There's a reasonably clear line of argument that House of Saud were very happy with the exporting the more extremist forms of Wahhabism as a counterpoint to Iranian influence in some of the post colonial constructs where Sunni and Shite mixed. It's gotten out of hand, but they were very slow to turn off the indirect funding tap from their own citizens (and occasionally family members).
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Wahabi clerics have the Saudi rulers by the balls, don't they?
Even if the Saudis started to receive political pressure, I don't think it would be easy to get them to stop.
Even if the Saudis started to receive political pressure, I don't think it would be easy to get them to stop.
jack_package_200
Banned
.
Damerman
Member
Sounds like a self perpetuating machine.
Whataboutism at its finest.
I dunno. I understand that we often have to trade with countries who have problematic elements eg China and its human rights, but China isn't fuelling an ideology that is bringing death and destruction to our streets. That's why I think we need to take a different line with SA. How can our PM be condemning these terror attacks with a straight face while flogging jets and weapons to SA? It seems money matters more than national security.I don't believe people like Theresa May have our best interests at heart no matter how convincing their speeches may be. She's just a damn liar. It's a shame people buy it.
Ravensmash
Member
I don't know why this made me laugh so much.
I do expect this to be a prominent story though.
Kralamoonard
Member
The sooner the governments stop turning a blind eye to Saudi, the sooner they'll stop being hypocrites. I don't see that stopping anytime soon until the oil $$ runs out lol. I don't know much about politics, but I guess it's always matters of national interest rather than "good" vs "bad", even if it means doing deal with the devil.
Woah, that escalated quickly. What's with the lashing out?
Woah, that escalated quickly. What's with the lashing out?
Chasm Skulker
Banned
I can get behind the sentiment, fuck Saudi Arabia.
But surely in the unfortunate event this broken clock is elected, and he follows through with his "difficult conversations", what real impact will that have? (in the context of terrorism, I'm all for weakening SA and their free pass to obliterate civilians in Yemen)
Surely that's closing the door after the horse had bolted. We already have these cockroaches peddling death here, they're not going to stop believing our culture is filthy and degenerate and they're not going to stop grooming worthless misfits into becoming mass murderers. Whether or not their cash flow stops or slows.
But baby steps. If we can at least name and shame the fundraisers it's a start. That shitheap of a nation deserves nothing but disgust and suspicion on the international stage.
But surely in the unfortunate event this broken clock is elected, and he follows through with his "difficult conversations", what real impact will that have? (in the context of terrorism, I'm all for weakening SA and their free pass to obliterate civilians in Yemen)
Surely that's closing the door after the horse had bolted. We already have these cockroaches peddling death here, they're not going to stop believing our culture is filthy and degenerate and they're not going to stop grooming worthless misfits into becoming mass murderers. Whether or not their cash flow stops or slows.
But baby steps. If we can at least name and shame the fundraisers it's a start. That shitheap of a nation deserves nothing but disgust and suspicion on the international stage.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Yes but do you think Corbyn and his cabinet are going to be seen dancing with the Saudis in a few weeks?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Winston Churchill
A racist Tory hated democracy why I never
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I can understand why Stinkles reacted strongly. Saudi Arabia's influence (in the form of tens of billions of dollars spread around the globe to promote their insane version of Islam) has literally ruined the Sunni Muslim world. Like, pretty much every Sunni Muslim country is descending into murderous intolerance of minorities and becoming more extreme by the day.
Golden_Pigeon is basically saying that Saudi Arabia's particular brand of insane Islam can be used to counteract ISIS's particular brand of insane Islam. Which may be technically true, in the way that, say, Stalinism could crowd out Maoism, or Italian-style fascism could overpower Austrian fascism. He claims to be bringing nuance to the discussion, but it's not the type of nuance that any reasonable person should embrace.
Corbyn has been saying this stuff for years, it's not his fault the horses in power are deaf.
Not just this thread but a long convoluted history of defending Islamists and dictators in the name of "complexity" and I find it exhausting redundant and disingenuous.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Top tier post. Succinct and 100% right.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
He ain't wrong and it's something that needed to be said given that the Home Office said they might not publish a report on how extremist groups are funded, because its contents and findings are very 'sensitive' i.e. God forbid we upset the Saudis when they're giving us billions of quid
Perfect.
GoldenCrow
Member
We have known this for a long time and about time a British politician has said something.
Stereogatari
Banned
I don't know how it happened, but Corbyn all of a sudden has got my vote in the last week.
It's the Saudi's fault that Islam has such a shit reputation in the World these days. Pure and simple.
It's the Saudi's fault that Islam has such a shit reputation in the World these days. Pure and simple.
it's a stupid argument for more reasons than just that. hardcore islamists of all stripes hate the sauds for sure because they're venal and corrupt, but some members of that family do send a lot of money into the pockets of extremists for mostly political reasons. and besides that, saudi arabia is domestically oppressive, anti-democratic, corrupt as fuck, and have been committing war crimes in yemen (with the help of the US and UK) for years that have fueled humanitarian crises and even more extremism.
handing out some anti-ISIS pamphlets in france means basically nothing. nobody should be friends with these fucks.
It's too hard to discuss that kind of issue on a message board where people oversimplify what you say and don't know your references but are trying to bring unrelated historical ones (stalinism/maoism-european facsisms)
Well said.
Soldiussnaku
Member
Good lord finally, a politician in the UK has the temerity to say this in the open. It infuriates me when May can stand at a podium and state there is too much toleration of extremism but never says the damn exporter of said bullshit is our close ally.
Me, my Muslim friends and relatives have said this for years especially after the London attacks in 05. The brand of extremism S.A have shipped over the world over the past few decades have done nothing but to benefit themselves on top of dead bodies.
I was set to vote lib dem, since I feel labour have really let themselves become a weak weak party after Blair, and corbyn isn't leadership material, but this statement has gotten my vote.
Me, my Muslim friends and relatives have said this for years especially after the London attacks in 05. The brand of extremism S.A have shipped over the world over the past few decades have done nothing but to benefit themselves on top of dead bodies.
I was set to vote lib dem, since I feel labour have really let themselves become a weak weak party after Blair, and corbyn isn't leadership material, but this statement has gotten my vote.
Damerman
Member
The media has been fairly careful to only mention certain things that he says.
andythinkpad
Member
He is not wrong.
MemoryHumanity
Member
No.
Theonik
Member
Well he was elected to be the leader of the Labour Party, second most powerful political party in the UK in 2015 and his party is running in the general elections on Thursday.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Probably not going to happen, but some of us are trying our best.
Tbf, second out of two isn't really that impressive.
I'm glad someone from the West is speaking up. As a Muslim, I hate the way the Saudi Arabia behaves as if they're what a true Muslim country should be like.
The top 10 countries that treat their people according to Islamic principles are actually non-Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is a hypocrite.
http://islamicity-index.org/wp/islamicity-rankings/
I am glad that the world is heading towards a fossil fuel free world and I hope Saudi isn't part of it.
The top 10 countries that treat their people according to Islamic principles are actually non-Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is a hypocrite.
http://islamicity-index.org/wp/islamicity-rankings/
I am glad that the world is heading towards a fossil fuel free world and I hope Saudi isn't part of it.
Theonik
Member
What I'm trying to say is, watch this space.
I hate this fucking quote so much. It disregards the actual problems that democracy is facing with pseudointellectual bullshit about the average voters being too dumb to deserve a vote.
Trump didn't win because of he got a majority of voters, he won because he took advantage of an archaic system. The Republican Party doesn't control congress and state governments because more people in the US vote republican, it's because they rig the system in their favor through gerrymandering and making it as hard as possible to vote. Brexit happened because of a massive disinformation campaign that used complete fabrications, lies, and misplaced nationalism to get people to go against their own best interests.
These conservative parties have made anti-voter tactics a science, it's not simply because voters are dumb.
ZiZ
Member
I would like to note something, one must differentiate between post and pre-9/11 Saudi Arabia.
it's true, Saudi Arabia has had a history funding extremists. this was at its highest with Alqaeda during their war with the soviets.
After 9/11 there was a HUGE change in the country, religious study curriculums were changed, religious sermons were monitored, almost all foreign missionary organizations (Saudi groups that spread Islam in foreign countries) were closed.
Nowadays extremism is public enemy no.1. They preach against extremism in mosques, in schools, in all forms of media. Any serious talk supporting extremism will send you to jail or worse.
What still happens is Saudi supporting Syrian rebels. Many of whom the US supports as well.
most governments know this, I know the US is heavily involved in the Saudi anti-extremism reform. They know what's being done.
Saudi Arabia is shit for so many reasons. But saying they are the main funders of extremism in this day and age is incorrect.
it's true, Saudi Arabia has had a history funding extremists. this was at its highest with Alqaeda during their war with the soviets.
After 9/11 there was a HUGE change in the country, religious study curriculums were changed, religious sermons were monitored, almost all foreign missionary organizations (Saudi groups that spread Islam in foreign countries) were closed.
Nowadays extremism is public enemy no.1. They preach against extremism in mosques, in schools, in all forms of media. Any serious talk supporting extremism will send you to jail or worse.
What still happens is Saudi supporting Syrian rebels. Many of whom the US supports as well.
most governments know this, I know the US is heavily involved in the Saudi anti-extremism reform. They know what's being done.
Saudi Arabia is shit for so many reasons. But saying they are the main funders of extremism in this day and age is incorrect.
You can't start a shit sandwich making factory, and after decades of running it, claim to not be responsible for all the shit it produces; because you no longer oversee the day to day operations of said shit sandwich making factory. They started it, they facilitated its growth, they financed it, therefore they own it. A good deal of the Muslim world is in turmoil due to the nasty ideology these motherfuckers spread. Just because their little monsters came back to bite them, doesn't absolve them from any of this.
Saudi religious leaders are on record for stating that the source of the ideology these groups follow, is rooted in Saudi Arabia's own version of Islam. Just tuned to its most extreme logical conclusion.
The Greek Freak
Member
If every bomb we used in Iraq or Afghanistan landed on a Saudi royal the world would be a better place and there would be way less terrorism.
Wahabi Islam is basically the bad Muslim stereotype made manifest.
Wahabi Islam is basically the bad Muslim stereotype made manifest.