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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
It's amazing that you keep repeating this line without realizing it makes you sound like a moron.
Are you posting ironically?
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Like everything else technology related, we're getting better at this as we head to the future. Faster, please.
FunkMiller
Member
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funkygunther
Banned
COVID-19: Unvaccinated pregnant women make up one fifth of most critically ill coronavirus patients in England
The National Childbirth Trust says the statistics are a "damning indictment of the lack of attention given to this vulnerable group as restrictions have eased".
news.sky.com
MisterFalcon
Member
I'd say that the importance of getting vaccinated has gotten a lot of attention this year and if people decide not to get vaccinated it's their fault and not purely the result of a lack of attention for their group.COVID-19: Unvaccinated pregnant women make up one fifth of most critically ill coronavirus patients in England
The National Childbirth Trust says the statistics are a "damning indictment of the lack of attention given to this vulnerable group as restrictions have eased".
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FunkMiller
Member
COVID-19: Unvaccinated pregnant women make up one fifth of most critically ill coronavirus patients in England
The National Childbirth Trust says the statistics are a "damning indictment of the lack of attention given to this vulnerable group as restrictions have eased".
It's certainly a damning indictment of stupid, pregnant women.
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funkygunther
Banned
the only thing I’d say to that is that the JVCI updated its guidance for pregnant women in April this year, thanks to real world examples from America but this was months after the shots were available for the eldest cohort
between January and April the amount of FUD around whether/whether not it’s ok for pregnant women could have spread like wildfire and when you’re pregnant you’re not going to take any chances, so it’s easy to say no and stick to that position
of course it’s been months now and the vaccine is indicated both safe for the woman and the child but the person in the article was arguing that by this point the damage has already been done
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Welp lads, headed in for a rapid test today, whatever I’ve had since last Thursday has only gotten worse.
edit
Negative
Rub some 'mectin on it, gargle some vitamin D
In COVID news, an article regarding the cognitive effects of the disease:
Here’s what Bay Area doctors say about how COVID affects the brain
In one of the hottest areas of coronavirus research, scientists want to unlock the...
www.sfchronicle.com
funkygunther
Banned
Is this how you conduct scientific research?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I would had never guessed it's more deadly to inhale a million germ molecules versus inhaling a single germ.
Same goes for things like tear gas. I guess people stuck in the middle of a tear gas bomb and going nuts is just pure luck the whole time versus someone on the sidelines who ran away fine. I was thinking both people would be affected equally, but thank you Nature for telling me.
TheFarter
Banned
Nope. Was just curious.
funkygunther
Banned
Well in that case if its not about trying to prove some weird hypothesis and you're genuinely just wondering then I've been jabbed and not once had covid.
But I might have had covid at any time and just been asymptomatic and therefore didn't get tested. Also after I got jabbed I got told I had been around someone that had tested positive and I tested negative.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The virus multiplies once in your body though, so it is not a given that there would be a strong correlation between dose and severity, in fact I would think it would be pretty rare that this would be the case.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
There's probably some kind of critical mass of viral load where your body can't keep up anymore and overloads itself.
Given the exponential replication rate of viruses, the larger the initial number is, the sooner you reach the point if no return and you're getting sicker faster than your body can heal itself.
QSD
Member
Covid: UK start to pandemic worst public health failure ever, MPs say
What's jarring to me about this is that these failures, even though they cost thousands of lives, seem to be (to the surprise of no one here) free from consequences.
People rail on Joe Rogan, Bret Weinstein, and anti-vaxxers in general, which is understandable, but in terms of body count, the failures of institutions at the start of the pandemic dwarf whatever damage was done by waving around some ivermectin.
What's jarring to me about this is that these failures, even though they cost thousands of lives, seem to be (to the surprise of no one here) free from consequences.
People rail on Joe Rogan, Bret Weinstein, and anti-vaxxers in general, which is understandable, but in terms of body count, the failures of institutions at the start of the pandemic dwarf whatever damage was done by waving around some ivermectin.
funkygunther
Banned
these institutions have actual power over people's lives so of course the bodycount will be higher with them than Joe Rogan, so no idea what it's got to with him, ivermectin or anti-vaxxers...a completely irrelevant comparison, because on the inverse the successes of any institution during the pandemic also dwarfs whatever Joe Rogan is doing
on the actual topic then: UK blundered its way completely at the start of the pandemic, from reacting late, to how care homes became breeding grounds, the initial "herd immunity" strategy, government contracts for tracing that didn't work etc...the government was utterly humiliated
in terms of accountability, if a specific law is not broken the only consequence for a government can be that it will be voted out
but as long as there is an argument that they were doing the best they could with the information they had at the time there is no real consequence to eek out from anyone during something like this, it will however be used as a stick to beat any subsequent government during pandemic 2.0 as long as it's within our lifetimes
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QSD
Member
I don't think the comparison is completely pointless. At the start of the pandemic for example, The Dark Horse podcast (who later became infamous for promoting ivermectin) was very serious about the dangers of Covid, while Trump was still acting cavalier and dismissive of the whole thing. You could argue they may have saved a significant number of lives, before endangering them again with their ivermectin promotion. Either way, if we are attributing body counts we should do that for everybody.
The hard part here is the argument that they were doing the best they could with the information they had at the time. Given that the same (sparse) information was available everywhere around the world, the huge differences between countries in actual covid response seems more attributable to the whims and particularities (e.g. personality, politics) of the people in charge in any given country. I think poor or misguided decision making which has such huge consequences in terms of health outcomes shouldn't be free from consequences legally.
CrankyJay™
Member
Notice how Area 51 stays black the entire time, lol
CrankyJay™
Member
Is this new? Could of sworn we knew about viral load pretty much from the jump.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
This is very useful. Lots of chicken littles around here in the southern US said the large gatherings around college football season would lead to increased spread, but cases nosedived just as the season started in early September.
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Companies can last longer without the roughly 1-2% of their work force who are actually willing to lose their job over this (compared to the roughly 15% who "express concern" or protest) than most of those people can without jobs or incomes forever (at least the ones who are making a living in the first place).
You can't fight city hall. Everyone's gonna have to get their shot. Principled stances break down fast when you're hungry. Regardless of if these mandates are right or wrong, they're going to be effective.
It also gets real hard to call shit "death jabs" when 99% of people have them and everyone is fucking fine.
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QSD
Member
I read a story last week about a single New York care provider who either lost or terminated 3000 employees due to the vax mandates. Here in The Netherlands there are such shortages of care workers that something like that would never fly. You can't just 'find' 3000 extra care workers somewhere, you would basically be relegating many people who urgently need care to a long waiting list.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Any company in this situation canning people is surely calling it a blessing.
It cuts costs. If they need to hire back, that's up to them. I'm sure there's some other qualified people happy to fill the job opening. By the sounds of it, it sounds like cause for termination, so they might not even get severance pay which makes it even better. I dont know. Even if they rehire in full, they can offer them shittier salaries too.
Its like the global financial crisis in 2008. My rich older brother who does finance laughed because the whole aura of it gave companies an easy blanket reason to get rid of people while just blaming the crisis, even though most companies were fine. it's not like every company twirled down the toilet. The company I was working at at the time did fine like nothing happened.
Just about every company can get by with 1-2% fewer people.
The possible drawback is the people leaving are good ones. But if lets say lots of the people canned skew to workers who are lousy, who cares.
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
When you're as short staffed as you are, losing 2% of your staff is definitely felt, but it's not as critical as that number makes it sound out of context. I know people in New York hospitals. They've been short staffed for a while and they're tired, but they aren't morning the loss of idiots who are bad at their jobs, which anti-vax nurses are by definition.
I feel worse for a construction worker who loses their job, because a construction worker isn't supposed to know anything about science or medicine. A nurse is. A nurse who can't take the same vaccine as 99% of her co-workers without any compelling medical reason needs to go back to school before she should be allowed to work in the industry.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
This doesn't appear to be the case. Look at Fed Ex. They've had to slash their profit projections largely because of labor shortages. And they've raised wages a little bit but it hasn't been enough to fill those positions.
The fact is, there needs to be a radical realignment on how we take care of the working class. I think a few big factors have come to light:
- When you don't pay people a living wage, they don't need your wage to live. Many of the people working these shitty low wage jobs end up living at home or being supported by partners. They won't go hungry if they lose their $15K a year walmart job, you know? And after being overworked and placing their health at risk during Covid many are just not willing to go back unless the wage is offering enough to actually change their lifestyle. A living wage.
- There's a huge childcare crisis that Covid has exacerbated, and many low wage workers, especially women, are opting to stay at home with the kids instead. When schools closed and went remote, many families were put in a position where they would have to pay thousands of dollars in childcare costs a month just to work. It's simply not worth it for many. And mothers of pre-school children are still faced with this reality.
QSD
Member
I'd agree with you on the hospital workers, but when I read 'care worker' I don't necessarily think of hospital workers per se. It gets more complicated when you start factoring in people that care for the elderly and mentally handicapped. Those are just wash/dress/feed type jobs (very hard work though) so entry level, and here in the Netherlands the vacancies are near impossible to fill. Hell in my own job (assisted living with psychiatric patients) we're currently 1 staff short and nobody's responded to the vacancy for weeks now.
EDIT: btw what you mentioned in the other post, child care, is also a huge problem here ATM
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Yeah, in the US these jobs are dirt pay too. I used to date a woman who worked in a psychiatric assisted living facility like you, and she made less than a walmart employee, for a job that required a college degree. That sort of thing feels untenable.
But if the mandates are industry wide, I would imagine most people who don't actually have a medically compelling reason not to will just get the jab so they can go to work, unless the pay is too little to be compelling in the first place, in which case wages need to go up.
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chixdiggit
Member
Had an interesting conversation with my doctor. He said hospital is absolutely filled with Corona cases of both vaccinated and unvaccinated people young and old.
His thoughts were that the spread is from people infected that don't know they are infected. Like if you feel sick you get tested and stay home. If you don't feel sick you don't get tested and you spread it all around.
So I totally admit I'm an idiot with these things and I didn't read much of the thread. But if you can still get Corona with a vaccine wouldn't it work to have everyone tested (vaccinated and not) if you feel sick or not? And have people stay home if tested positive no matter how they feel?
His thoughts were that the spread is from people infected that don't know they are infected. Like if you feel sick you get tested and stay home. If you don't feel sick you don't get tested and you spread it all around.
So I totally admit I'm an idiot with these things and I didn't read much of the thread. But if you can still get Corona with a vaccine wouldn't it work to have everyone tested (vaccinated and not) if you feel sick or not? And have people stay home if tested positive no matter how they feel?
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That would likely work as well as requiring vaccination, in fact currently most mandates (except NY medical workers I think) have the option for weekly testing for those who don't get the vaccine. But weekly testing is seen by most as more invasive than just requiring a vaccine. The goal is to get people back to work and keep them there, so making excessive requirements is to be avoided.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Most people who are dug in on anti-Covid vax shit fall for this sort of contrarian fallacy shit. Which is literally the same logic that keeps a 5 year old from eating their vegetables.
Which doesn't mean people should stop pushing vaccines. Kids aren't gonna eat their vegetables if their parents didn't make them, and vaccine mandates are effective at increasing vaccination rates, so even though you hate it and it makes you mad that people give you flak, you're probably gonna have to eat your vegetables, or you're gonna have to go to your room and no screens for a week.
I want you to reflect on the fact that you literally didn't even know what a vaccine was when you wrote this and consider that you might not be informed enough to have such a strongly held opinion on the subject.
Not knowing things doesn't make you stupid. There's a lot of shit I don't know. I don't follow soccer, for example. That doesn't mean I'm stupid. But it does mean, I don't yell passionately about who is going to win the world cup and tell other people they're wrong.
Take your advice from those who are knowledgeable about the subject. Stop listening to idiots who don't know shit about it.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It was mostly assumed, since that's just the way most other viruses work too and the theorycrafting when applied to SARSCOV2 should be applicable. But no one ever actually tested it.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
I have noticed some places will no longer do free covid tested (likely a policy because the government no longer subsidizes it) unless you believe you have had contact with a positive person. Otherwise you have to pay for it.
Dumb shit like that is gonna mean less people getting tested and more people spreading it. I have also seen places running out of tests and closing up for the day.
chixdiggit
Member
I visited my grandmother at a nursing home and had to take a Covid test with a little paper strip. They had the results in like 10 minutes matching it up to a color chart. I'm guessing these tests are not very accurate?
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
They're about 80%.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
FunkMiller
Member
Do Americans have rapid lateral flow tests, out of a matter of interest?
We’ve had them here in U.K for a long time (free delivery to your home) and they’re extremely accurate.
Been very reassuring.
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chixdiggit
Member
That was the first and only time I seen them personally.
Seems like a simple solution to have them everywhere? Go to work, take the test in the morning and if you are sick go back home till you pass.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Joseph Boot again? Are you following this guy?
Maybe instead of letting Joseph Boot do your commentary you could link to a news article and then articulate your own thoughts instead of Joseph's in relation to the news.
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QSD
Member
Well I'm glad the pay for psychiatry is better here in NL. The thing I was getting at is that low-level care jobs are kind of like construction jobs in that you can't really expect these people to be knowledgeable on science and medicine, they just wash and feed people.
Other than that completely agree re: your arguments about living wage
ManaByte
Member
Only thing the world needed was Wuhan style lock down (it was hard to take in, but needed) , which I repeated multiple times almost 2 years ago … in the end I was right .. to bad lives can’t be revived like in games , economies can … it’s actually sad how blind lots of people are for the reality that’s unfolding right before them …
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Heard this also about 2 years ago, people who breath through the mouth more are less, affected,, it’s less likely to enter the brain, I do because of a bad surgery when I was small .. lucky me..Rub some 'mectin on it, gargle some vitamin D
In COVID news, an article regarding the cognitive effects of the disease:
Here’s what Bay Area doctors say about how COVID affects the brain
In one of the hottest areas of coronavirus research, scientists want to unlock the...
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