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[Gek54]

Republicans = right side of political spectrum = conservative. They are going to try to censor things more than the liberals. Democrats = left side of political spectrum = liberal. They're going to be easier on these things. Then again, Lieberman and Hillary are both Democrats so you never know. Politics can be very odd.

P.S. I am moderate.

Or maybe conservative means they want to conserve the first ammendment? Then again they are doing a good job looking past the whole seperation of church and state but as far as censorship goes it seems to be more of a Demo issue ever since the whole Gore crap with death metal rock.

 

[Ironclad]

Uh, maybe on Earth 2 or something.

Well, it's much more complicated than what I posted. My description was very general. My description doesn't even fit this case, or what happened with Lieberman back when Mortal Kombat was released. They're both Democrats yet they're pushing against this. The political spectrum is a lot deeper than my short, general description.

 

[Gek54]

Dude, just stop posting and go to a library while you still can.

Before I go on this wild goosechase, how about taking a few seconds and help me out by giving me a few names of some top Republican officials who have made an issue of censorship?

 

[Kobun Heat]

Well, it's much more complicated than what I posted. My description was very general.

I have to leave right now, so I won't really be able to continue this for a while. But: It's not that it's more complicated than you suggest, it's because it's opposite.

You say "they're both Democrats, yet they're pushing against this" as if it's somehow contrary to what one might imagine. In reality, this is precisely what you should expect from Democrats. Parental advisory stickers? Thank Al and Tipper Gore. ESRB ratings? Lieberman. All the flap over games in California? Leland Yee.

I'm not sure where you guys figure that even though it's always -- always -- Democrats at the forefront of this kind of thing, it's REALLY all the fault of those rat-bastard Republicans.

I vote Republican, so I get to deal with the fallout every time Rick Santorum goes on TV and says that butsecks is a threat to national security. Similarly, you guys get to deal with the stupid-ass shit your elected representatives pull. Deal with it.

 

[Bluecondor]

I don't want Hilary to have any impact on the next GTA game.

Of course, I not in any position to make this happen, but ifeels good to point this out.....

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Fuck that ho. I've been playing GTA for years and it hasn't made me any more mysogonistic.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I don't want Hilary to have any impact on the next GTA game.

Actually, as somebody said above, the only impact this is going to have is that they'll sell more copies of San Andreas. Again, history bears this out:

- the arcade game "Death Race" was doing really badly until people had a hissy fit that you ran over bodies, and they shipped another xty thousand of them
- Custer's Revenge for the Atari 2600 was singled out for protests, and sold double the copies of other porn games
- Mortal Kombat on the Genesis outsold the SNES one by like three to one
- Night Trap was stupid, but Lieberman showed it on C-Span and they had to reprint it it was so popular

 

[G-Fex]

what kind of idiots make such dumb mods anyways. Really, do they expect people to get off to them or something.

 

[johns all like]

what kind of idiots make such dumb mods anyways. Really, do they expect people to get off to them or something.

suddenly... feel urge... to play... mod.....naked.

 

[Kobun Heat]

what kind of idiots make such dumb mods anyways.

Rockstar, apparently.

 

[chaostrophy]

Before I go on this wild goosechase, how about taking a few seconds and help me out by giving me a few names of some top Republican officials who have made an issue of censorship?

Uh, Brownback and Santorum. That was quite a goose chase. And Bush's "limits to freedom" quote, and Ari Fleischer's "there are things you shouldn't say" quote, Robert Bork's essay devoted to the case for censorship, John Ashcroft covering a breast on a Lady Justice statue, John McCain being one of the primary backers of the Communications Decency Act, etc. etc. etc.

There's no such thing as a party of personal responsibility, really. The Democrats as a whole have been less censorious than the Republicans when it comes to movies and music, and I once believed that was out of principle, but their willingness to censor videogames has made it plain that it was more due to those industries' campaign contributions than anything else.

 

[Ironclad]

I have to leave right now, so I won't really be able to continue this for a while. But: It's not that it's more complicated than you suggest, it's because it's opposite.

You say "they're both Democrats, yet they're pushing against this" as if it's somehow contrary to what one might imagine. In reality, this is precisely what you should expect from Democrats. Parental advisory stickers? Thank Al and Tipper Gore. ESRB ratings? Lieberman. All the flap over games in California? Leland Yee.

I'm not sure where you guys figure that even though it's always -- always -- Democrats at the forefront of this kind of thing, it's REALLY all the fault of those rat-bastard Republicans.

I vote Republican, so I get to deal with the fallout every time Rick Santorum goes on TV and says that butsecks is a threat to national security. Similarly, you guys get to deal with the stupid-ass shit your elected representatives pull. Deal with it.

Okay, this I can agree with. My description of the political spectrum however was not backwards. There can be Democrats that are more conservative than liberal and there can be Republicans that are more liberal than conservative. Just look at Eisenhower. Democrats have been the ones behind censorship the past few years. I do agree with that. The evidence is right in front of us. Like I said, politics can be very hard. At one turn, you're trying to please your party but at another point you're trying to stick to your beliefs.

 

[Phoenix Dark]

God I'm sick of this mindless issue. There are far more important things the democrats could be pressing on about, like oh I don't know the war, Rove's ALLEGED (see, I'm fair) treasonous acts, the deficit, etc etc etc. But instead we have this idiot Hillary trying her best to act like a republican.

Where was Hillary Clinton on Mortal Kombat? Where was Hillary Clinton on GTA3? She wasn't thinking about running back then. Before these idiots started talking about this MOD I had never heard of it. The Sims has similar stuff hidden in it, as do many other simulation games. Why aren't they trying to ban those as well? Because GTA is the current scapegoat. The pattern is quite easy to follow. In the 40's and 50's it was comic books, which some how warped the minds of the youth (and apparently led to Vietnam). In the 60's it was Elvis. In the 80's it was metal music, which once again somehow was said to destroy the minds of the youth, who grew up to create the internet and Y2K. In the 90's it was gangsta rap. In the early 21st century it was Harry Potter and Eminem, and now GTA is the "new" kid on the block.

Until parents start parenting and stop demanding that the government raise their kids there will always be school violence and shootings. Currently there is no scientific evidence anywhere that proves that games "make" children shoot people or attack people with bats. GTA:SA has sold more than 12 million copies since October. If these "activists" were correct, there should be a freaking army of hoe slapping, plane hijacking, gang banging 13 and 14 year olds out there destroying cities right now. But where is this army? It only exsists in the minds of opportunist politicians and pathetic parents.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Before I go on this wild goosechase, how about taking a few seconds and help me out by giving me a few names of some top Republican officials who have made an issue of censorship?

I apologize for my rash and rude responses and you are correct to say that as of late, there haven't been any top officials (in the office anyways) making calls for censorship. But it's in the southern/republican strongholds that have traditionally rallied around book censorships. It's been this way for a long time (as Drinky pointed out)

 

[motodd]

Supposedly *star has registered a new website domain.

Link of source.

Oh yeah, sorry if old.

 

[TJ Bennett]

Can't we all just get along and agree that both political parties suck in terms of censorship? That's all I have to say.

 

[Ironclad]

Or maybe conservative means they want to conserve the first ammendment? Then again they are doing a good job looking past the whole seperation of church and state but as far as censorship goes it seems to be more of a Demo issue ever since the whole Gore crap with death metal rock.

Conserve the first ammendment? In a way, you may be right. Conservatives, in general, want to conserve the rights and morals of this country. Liberals on the other hand want to "change" things. They want people to be able to express themselves. These are basic definitions, ripped straight from my high school government class. :lol
Like I said earlier though, just because they're Democrats doesn't mean that they have to be against censorship and the other way around for Republicans. It all depends on what the party wants. That is why you see all of these Democrats making a push to it, and I would imagine that is why you see Republicans just keeping their hands clean of the entire matter. Sure politicians factor in their own beliefs into their decisions, but they also want to make their party happy so they can have their support. Ugh, politics is so tiring.

 

[Anyanka]

Where was Hillary Clinton on Mortal Kombat? Where was Hillary Clinton on GTA3? She wasn't thinking about running back then.

She DID complain about MK back when she was first lady. She even mentions it in her book.

 

[typhonsentra]

Uh, Brownback and Santorum. That was quite a goose chase. And Bush's "limits to freedom" quote, and Ari Fleischer's "there are things you shouldn't say" quote, Robert Bork's essay devoted to the case for censorship, John Ashcroft covering a breast on a Lady Justice statue, John McCain being one of the primary backers of the Communications Decency Act, etc. etc. etc.

Brownback and Santorum are anti-gay, a position which I strongly disagree with, but not really mean when I asked for examples of pro-censorship. And aside from that I'm not aware of any legislation they're pushing to limit homosexuality or impare personal relationships (Not 100% about this one though, if you can come up with examples I'll gladly admit I'm wrong about this). Bush and Ashcroft just said something you didn't like, and Bork and Fleischer hold no official power. McCain I will give you, even though he isn't exactly a party hardliner.

Edit: Looks like they cosponsored this bill with her.

 

[HokieJoe]

I can't tell if you're joking, but here's a hint: the people who try to ban books from libraries and certain films from video stores usually don't vote Democratic.

Hey Father, have you ever heard of the PMRC?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from PMRC)

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was a committee formed in 1985 by the wives of several congressmen. They included Tipper Gore (wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore); Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; and Nancy Thurmond, wife of Senator Strom Thurmond. Their mission was to educate parents about "alarming trends" in popular music. They claimed that rock music encouraged/glorified violence, drug use, suicide, criminal activity, etc. and sought the censorship and/or rating of music.

The point is, this isn't always a (R) or (D) issue. I don't think any of this stuff should be censored; but clearly, some of it shouldn't be sold to children. I also agree that it's being used as a scapegoat for parents abdicating their own responsibility in some cases.

 

[HokieJoe]

Fuck that ho. I've been playing GTA for years and it hasn't made me any more mysogonistic.

:lol

Edited for ironic effect.

That's pretty good Scooter.

 

[DDayton]

I apologize for my rash and rude responses and you are correct to say that as of late, there haven't been any top officials (in the office anyways) making calls for censorship. But it's in the southern/republican strongholds that have traditionally rallied around book censorships. It's been this way for a long time (as Drinky pointed out)

I vaguely recall book banning in the South occurring most heavily when the South was exclusively Democrat.

 

[Nightbringer]

We have here an "specimen" of the radical stupid feminist type of person.

The name is "HC" and she says a lot of silly things because in the mod is the woman who is naked.

Do you believe that she could open her mouth if the naked caracther is CJ?

I don´t.

 

[MC Safety]

To be frank, there's not much difference between the far right and the far left. Both are fairly concerned with strict government control and limiting personal freedoms. The best way to look at the political American spectrum is perhaps not as a straight line, but more circular with the ends almost touching. Both conservatives and liberals will espouse regulation/censorship of materials for different reasons.

As for this specific issue, well, personal responsibility is something Americans are very good at passing off. We're a lot happier if someone points out the bad stuff to us. It's a good thing Hillary Clinton wants to be our mommy because otherwise, oh, I guess we'd have to make decisions for ourselves.

 

[Zeo]

We always thought the game deserved an “AO” (Adults Only) for it’s graphic violence and brutal murders of women.

But the brutal murders of police and white males? A-OK!

 

[mrklaw]

But surely if a developer develops something, then leaves it out of the game (but leaves some files on the disc), the version that is rated is the one that is playable by normal people?

Yes, Rockstar are stupid for not being vigilant, but also they can't be blamed for something they clearly acted to remove - maybe it was originally in but they removed it for ratings purposes.


And if 'popular teen websites' are directing teens to pornographic material, fuck them over, not the game.

 

[joaomgcd]

Dear Hillary Clinton,

What would you rather have? People having sex with their boyfriends/girlfriends, or people running around killing everyone in sight, including cops and old ladies, with a multitude of firearms and explosives?

Thank you for your attention.

Oh wait, she already answered the question... :/

 

[Flakster99]

When the first rumblings of this appeared, and the tumble effect of information being released by most parties involved, you had to know the government, political parties would become involved.

This is just the beginning of a long process and I gotta tell ya, imo, Rockstar fucked up. Just how much are they going to pay, in censorship, moneys, creative rights, the sky is the limit. If not Hillary Clinton, then some other political party would of stepped in, I truly believe that. How does that saying go.. "The bigger they are, the harder they fall".

 

[The Guivre]

I think this is getting to be sort of like the dialogue about the warning labels on cigarettes. Ratings don't matter, you could make the entire front of the game a giant "M" and list in half inch letters SEXUAL THEMES and mothers would still walk up and put it on the electronics counter and say to their 12 year old son "this is the one you want right?"

I've just started tuning stuff like this out. With the Republicans and Democrats on the extremes of their parties seemingly running into eachother on this censorship issue, perhaps we should start a grassroots movement based on quality video game reform. We can call it the new GAF roots movement. Because that it's just stupid and catchy enough to work.

 

[Amused_To_Death]

I think this is getting to be sort of like the dialogue about the warning labels on cigarettes. Ratings don't matter, you could make the entire front of the game a giant "M" and list in half inch letters SEXUAL THEMES and mothers would still walk up and put it on the electronics counter and say to their 12 year old son "this is the one you want right?"

I've just started tuning stuff like this out. With the Republicans and Democrats on the extremes of their parties seemingly running into eachother on this censorship issue, perhaps we should start a grassroots movement based on quality video game reform. We can call it the new GAF roots movement. Because that it's just stupid and catchy enough to work.

Parents? Why in the fuck would parents want to buy a Mature rated game for a 12 y.o.? The game is intented to be played by adults, not kids. This is like a parent giving their kid beer and then blaming Budweiser for making the beer with alcohol. Parents should not even be in the picture on this issue. This is a game made for adults, and just because someone want to protect the children, doesn't mean they can take the right to play the game away from me. If you sneak your kid into an R rated movie, do you blame the studio for putting sexual themes in the movie that would harm your child?

 

[echoshifting]

Do we really need a multi-page thread every time somebody else jumps on the bandwagon?

I mean, christ, tomorrow it's going to be "Dr. Dobson comes out against Hot Coffee Mod!" 5 page GAF debate here I come!

 

[evil ways]

I think this is getting to be sort of like the dialogue about the warning labels on cigarettes. Ratings don't matter, you could make the entire front of the game a giant "M" and list in half inch letters SEXUAL THEMES and mothers would still walk up and put it on the electronics counter and say to their 12 year old son "this is the one you want right?"

That's one of the roots of the problem, irresponsible parents. I've seen a lot of them whether it was during my time working retail or when I went to buy a game. The first thing they ask when they go buy a game with their child is not "Is this game appropiate for my child's age", but instead "How much does it cost". They will buy anything for their children in order to get them to shut up or to make up for not paying attention to them.

The second problem, in my opinion, is the myth these political, parents or religious moral groups have etched unto their heads that video games are for children. They don't realize that somewhere during the late 80's and early 90's video games started appealing to a broader, more mature audience. Just like there are adult books and novels with horror, murder mysteries and sexual thrillers, and just like there are R rated movies with nudity and sex scenes.

In fact, I don't see how the "Hot Coffee" mod in GTA SA is any different than any R rated film with nudity and sex scenes, aside from the fact that Rockstar tried to remove it from the game. Both are for mature audiences, M(17+) & R(No persons under 17 years of age), and it's not like there's any penetration, male sexual organs and ejaculation being shown in the game.

 

[The Guivre]

Parents? Why in the fuck would parents want to buy a Mature rated game for a 12 y.o.?

Hi, welcome to my everyday life. Your shock should fade in a little bit.

I've found that parents do this for several reasons.

1. They just don't understand. The "M" rating is not as familiar to them as "R" or "NC-17"
Most parents whom I explain the system to have never even noticed the "M" or at least their reactions lead me to believe that. You'd be surprised what happens when I turn it over and show them the list of reasons why a game is "M". Some don't even want me to tell them why because there are kids present.

2. "My friend ______ Has the game." Parents trust their kids sometimes, and they certainly trust eachother a lot of the time. So when it's already at a friend's house, why not have it at home? Stupid yes, but that's life.

3. "It's ok, it's just a game" That's straight from plenty of parents' mouths.

It's even more fun when I card people for Mature games. The young mom or dad says. "Wait, it's just a game and I need an ID?" In the end I think a good portion of the people on the retail side of this whole exchange are doing their part, I at least try to.

In the end it's the parents' responsibilty and they're failing, miserably I might add.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Edit: Looks like they cosponsored this bill with her.

They co-sponsored a bill with her. One that sets up a five-year study analyzing the effect of media viewing on childhood development. That doesn't mean they agree with her on what's to be done.

 

[kaching]

And if 'popular teen websites' are directing teens to pornographic material, fuck them over, not the game.

Oh, but they can't do that - they're beholden to these sites for providing them the ammo they wanted in their conflict with Rockstar over GTA. It just warms my heart to see people/organizations so blithely ignore the standards of moral decency they claim to uphold.

 

[vitaflo]

Before I go on this wild goosechase, how about taking a few seconds and help me out by giving me a few names of some top Republican officials who have made an issue of censorship?

Rick Santorum, Sam Brownback, Orrin Hatch. They've all had things to say about video game violence as well. Hating on video games is distinctly non-partisan.

 

[typhonsentra]

They co-sponsored a bill with her. One that sets up a five-year study analyzing the effect of media viewing on childhood development. That doesn't mean they agree with her on what's to be done.

Still a colossal waste of time and money.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Still a colossal waste of time and money.

Like 99% of the feddle gummint, yes.

 

[kaching]

Jack Thompson has sent a letter to members of the ESA calling for the resignation of the ESA president, Doug Lowenstein, and takes this debate to its logical conclusion by making references to Hitler:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/thompson-calls-for-esa-pres-resignation-112565.php

 

[DarienA]

Jack Thompson has sent a letter to members of the ESA calling for the resignation of the ESA president, Doug Lowenstein, and takes this debate to its logical conclusion by making references to Hitler:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/thompson-calls-for-esa-pres-resignation-112565.php

You folks HAVE to read this letter:

He should trying telling that to my clients in Paducah whose three daughters were gunned down by 14-year-old video gamer Michael Carneal, who trained on Doom to become a more efficient killer.

Uh.... and that Hilter comparison... ouch.

If you want your fledgling industry destroyed for all of you, keep Doug Lowenstein right where he is. Events, like Columbine to the factor of ten, will take care of that. You won’t be able to blame Senator Rodham Clinton. She is trying to prevent that calamity.

Oh god... overboard alert...

But if you want to be a partner with America’s parents by together taking our children out of harm’s way, then look for an ESA president who has the common decency to recognize the truth, speak it, and then act upon it.

<sigh> Children should not be playing GTA, parents should not be buying GTA for children, stores should not be selling M rated games to children.

 

[LakeEarth]

Every time I hear these people saying "A 9 year old shouldn't be playing this game", I have to say "How did a 9 year old get $50 to buy the game in the first place? Oh, YOU bought the game for him? The evil game you hate? The one with the big M rating? The one called GRAND THEFT AUTO for godsake!?!?"

 

[Drexon]

Bwahaha, Hillary's on the bandwagon? As a European, completely immortal to all harm that may come to US citizens from this all I have to say is

*GRABS POPCORN* :lol

MAF baloons on MTV... oh, boiling point, confusing.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Is the Democratic party really this desperate?

 

[Kon Tiki]

If you fuckers who live in NY don't call her office and tell her shut the fuck up and to honor your free speech rights, I'm going to lose faith in you all!!!

Does not compute.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Is the Democratic party really this desperate?

Inasmuch as they're in danger of collapsing, yes.

 

[Amused_To_Death]

You folks HAVE to read this letter:



Uh.... and that Hilter comparison... ouch.


Oh god... overboard alert...


<sigh> Children should not be playing GTA, parents should not be buying GTA for children, stores should not be selling M rated games to children.

Jack Thompson is a buffoon, he's been on a crusade against the industy for years, no one even though who are pro-censorship take him seriously...

 

[Amused_To_Death]

Does not compute.

Bad choice of words, I meant to say that if gamers don't speak up, the "concerned parents of America" will speak up on our behalf.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

They should get Howard Dean in on this. He will fix it for everyone. He is my hero.

 

[Kobun Heat]

They should get Howard Dean in on this. He will fix it for everyone. He is my hero.

"We're going to San Andreas, and Vice City, and Liberty City, the Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule, Spira, Whispering Rock Psychic Summer Camp, and YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

"We absolutely must censor video games because it's so hard to know what your children are watching. When the children were young, I mean the children from my first marriage, I never really saw them, so of course I had to rely on the maids, the wet nurse, the day care woman, the chauffeurs, the nanny, the night nanny, and the butler to keep an eye on what they were watching on the television set on their floor of the mansion, and of course those people are so unreliable, as they come from foriegn countries, and it's just so hard to find good help..."

*chomp*

 

[kaching]

:lol Genius