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Damn it, Hillary Clinton is jumping on the Rockstar bandwagon

Dr_Cogent

Banned
Kobun Heat said:
dean_scream.jpg

"We're going to San Andreas, and Vice City, and Liberty City, the Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule, Spira, Whispering Rock Psychic Summer Camp, and YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

teresa_heinz150.jpg

"We absolutely must censor video games because it's so hard to know what your children are watching. When the children were young, I mean the children from my first marriage, I never really saw them, so of course I had to rely on the maids, the wet nurse, the day care woman, the chauffeurs, the nanny, the night nanny, and the butler to keep an eye on what they were watching on the television set on their floor of the mansion, and of course those people are so unreliable, as they come from foriegn countries, and it's just so hard to find good help..."

8wcqk3.jpg

*chomp*

:lol
 

gstaff

Member
My girlfriend, who is on good terms with Hilary, sat in on this. I'll let you know if she said anything interesting before/after.
 
DarienA said:
You folks HAVE to read this letter:



Uh.... and that Hilter comparison... ouch.


Oh god... overboard alert...

I found several gems, these are priceless:

Doug Lowenstein has merely the courage to stand up at E3 and rant to the video game faithful about people like Senator Rodham Clinton. This is not courage. This is cowardice. It is the cowardice that all bullies display.

Take-Two’s new game coming out in October featuring violence by students in a school setting (the next scandal that is brewing on Lowenstein’s watch) ought to be renamed “Doug.” Bullying is not real leadership. It is a stopgap measure until real leadership shows up. Enter Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Or this

My fervent prayer as a Christian is not “Lord, give me more friends.” It is rather “Lord, give me more enemies like Doug Lowenstein.” He makes what I do so easy.

And

After today, when Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton speaks the truth and calls upon Americans to act on that truth regarding the violence and the scandal and the hurt coming from the extremists in your industry, pause and ask yourself: Whom can we thank for this day? I, as a lifelong Republican, am going to thank Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
 
I swear, I don't know how Mr. Lowenstein can remain so stoic when a blowhard like this is attacking him and his character like this every chance he gets. A far better man than I'll ever be.
 
It's not a Democrat-Republican thing. It's a libertarian-authoritarian thing.

I say that the majority is sometimes wrong, and that politicians, who pander to majorities as a matter of job security, shouldn't be able to run my life.
 
chaostrophy:

Oh come now. Did you miss the section where Thompson berates President Bush for not aggressively going after the violent videogame cartel? It was actually quite hilarious:

. . . the supposedly “family values” Republican President of the United States, George W. Bush, has consistently turned away from parents who have asked him to speak out against the entertainment industry’s assault on our children.

The evening in January 2000 that I appeared on NBC Nightly News to talk about the link between violent games and Columbine, Tom Brokaw asked then Governor Bush about that link and what he as President would do about it? George Bush simply said “Parents just have to be better parents.” . . .

George Bush, as Governor of Texas, gave a state tax break to Id Software of Dallas, the makers of Doom, after Columbine, for Heaven’s sake, and it is his Department of Defense which has subsidized with taxpayer dollars the creation of violent video games for teen consumption at the Institute for Creative Technologies at the University of Southern California. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has increased funding for this taxpayer rip-off since my appearance on ABC’s World News Tonight more than two years ago exposing this scandal. Don Rumsfeld is supposed to be catching terrorists, not training them.

I'm sure you can sleep easier at night knowing you're on the same side of the issue as Bush and Rumsfeld. :D

Believe me, there are plenty of whack jobs on both sides of the aisle who are willing to unfairly target videogames to score crass political points. The issue unites communitarians on the left and the moral police on the right who both think they know how you should live your life better than you do. There's no need to turn this into a partisan issue because that underestimates the opponents that you are facing.
 

ronito

Member
I'll admit I'm no fan of GTA. I think this whole "I'm ever so naughty giggle giggle!" games are just insipid. However, I fail to see the Senator's point. The game was already rated M, kids shouldn't have played it to begin with. Many stores require ID to buy it, what ELSE could she possibly want the ESRB to do???...other than give her free publicity.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
After reading Jack Thompson's vicious characterization of Doug Lowenstein, I was rather curious to see if any of it was accurate. Figured I'd track down Doug's E3 speech since Jack seems to reference, as follows:

Jack Thompson said:
Doug Lowenstein has merely the courage to stand up at E3 and rant to the video game faithful about people like Senator Rodham Clinton. This is not courage. This is cowardice. It is the cowardice that all bullies display.

Okay...so here's the part of Doug's E3 speech that's relevant:

Doug Lowenstein said:
Meanwhile, as I stand here today, video games are under attack by politicians in states across the country. True, some of these politicians are certifiably extreme; some have their own ideological agendas; some are cynically exploiting media violence concerns for political gain, some are trying to curry favor with parents worried about raising their children. But all of these proposals to ban game sales are unjustified, unnecessary, unconstitutional and, ultimately most importantly, they’re ineffective – they will never be enacted and they won’t do a single thing to really help parents raise their kids safely.

But you don’t have to be a cynical politician or a cultural extremist to raise questions about video game content. There are many thoughtful, rational people who share the concerns. And we ignore them at our own peril – they are the Moms and Dads who buy games and increasingly, play them. Disrespecting their concerns is dangerous indeed.

We can use things like the American Constitution’s guarantee of free speech as a shield to legitimize virtually any content. Indeed, the very essence of art is that it has no boundaries, and the critical acclaim accorded various paintings, photographs, or books attests to that. But I submit to you it is one thing to say a product is protected speech, which it is, or that it is rated and parents need to accept responsibility for what their kids play, which they do. But it is quite another thing to say we have no larger responsibility for shaping the quality and values of the culture we live in.

We’ve all seen games that depict content which is constitutionally protected artistic expression and yet which also raises the question of whether it really was necessary to realize the designer’s artistic vision. That’s not a call for censorship or government intrusion into video game sales. But it is meant to say that it is fair for critics, and us, to ask whether everything that is cool and pushes the envelope is, in fact, creatively necessary.

Long time game developer Ernest Adams says the industry needs “cultural cred.” He’s right. Acceptance in the culture is the key to legitimacy. None of us were alive when film first came on the scene but historians will tell you it was not regarded with great and instant acclaim. Our industry is just thirty years old and has produced more than its fair share of classics. No doubt, many more will come. But if we as an industry aspire to the same cultural and artistic credibility and stature achieved by other major forms of entertainment, our creative community and our publishers will have to eschew some of the historically easy and successful formulas for commercial success and draw consumers into some new kinds of interactive entertainment experiences that more often ennoble our industry.

Things like The Serious Games Movement and The Education Arcade are an important part of that. The fact that the Federation of American Scientists whose Board is populated by Nobel Prize winners is developing video games, funded by a grant from no less a symbol of America’s intellectual might than the National Academy of Sciences, is evidence of the growing sense beyond our industry of the potential for video games beyond the living room.

Similarly, the recent Harvard Business School Press book “Got Game” further validated the legitimacy of video games in the culture by reporting that by playing games, new entrants into the work force of today and tomorrow are bold but prudent risk takers, have a strong ability to multitask, have strong leadership skills, are more sociable, are more creative and have better problem solving skills, and are less easily discouraged.

In the end, cultural cred will come as the video game generation itself grows into positions of power and influence over politics and culture, as today’s GTA fans become tomorrow’s Senators and editors. But in this period where we are no longer cultural outsiders, but rather are at the center of defining and creating the culture, some self criticism and self examination is healthy. Burying our heads in the sands or adopting a bunker mentality is an immature response.

I don't know, Jack, that really doesn't sound like bully talk to me.

EDIT: Link to the Doug's full e3 speech - http://www.e3insider.com/newsroomArticle.aspx?articleID=N8WP7SJFMY
 
FFantasyFX said:
Believe me, there are plenty of whack jobs on both sides of the aisle who are willing to unfairly target videogames to score crass political points.

Agreed, that was the point I explicitly made in an earlier post. I never said that Republicans/conservatives were solely at fault for censorship, or even more at fault than Dems/liberals. I was just rebutting the point that some people made here that censorship is dominated by the left.
 

HokieJoe

Member
Effing Jack Thompson- lawyer scumbag extraordinaire.

StopKill

This site's purpose is to give you the means to contact Miami attorney Jack Thompson if you know of someone harmed as a result of violent entertainment, including violent video games.

Too many people in this country have an external locus of control. IOW, they're looking for excuses to rationalize away their own failings. Lawyers have gone out of their way to exploit and promote this way of thinking.
 

----

Banned
Damn the Democrats sure hate Grand Theft Auto. Between Lieberman, Hilary the raging liberal bitch lesbo Clinton, and that Democrat from San Francisco that started the whole sex mini-game ESRB scandal it sure seems like Rockstar is at the top of the Democrats shit list.
 

----

Banned
Honestly I don't need to hear about what should or shouldn't be in video games from a nasty old bitch who has probably never even played a video game in her life.

I really hope that the Democrats nominate this obnoxious creature as a Presidential candidate since she has absolutely no chance of ever becoming President with her corrupt and idiotically liberal background. London is getting hit by terrorist attacks and her top priority is dealing with an obscure and incredibly hard to access mini-game in a video game. I'm glad NYC tax dollars are really going to good use. Maybe she'll chase away the one and only quality video game developer in NY. Good job, dummy! I'm sure this stupid stunt will really help prevent her from being smeared as a liberal in the upcoming election. :lol Republicans will completely forget to mention her voting record and infamous embarassing quotes because of silly unimportant issues such as this.
 
How does this win over Republicans? This type of censorship is hardly a part of their agenda, and Thompson openly critisizes the president for calling on parents to accept responsibility for the actions of their children. Is he a left-winger now?
 
typhonsentra said:
How does this win over Republicans? This type of censorship is hardly a part of their agenda, and Thompson openly critisizes the president for calling on parents to accept responsibility for the actions of their children. Is he a left-winger now?

Has Thompsons kids beat the shit out of someone or something? Why's it such a big deal to have parents take care of their crazy ass kids? He seems to make everything out to be some kind of training simulator. GTA is a murder training simulator and HALO is a sniper training simulator.
 

HokieJoe

Member
SolidSnakex said:
Has Thompsons kids beat the shit out of someone or something? Why's it such a big deal to have parents take care of their crazy ass kids? He seems to make everything out to be some kind of training simulator. GTA is a murder training simulator and HALO is a sniper training simulator.


:lol

Kind of like how law school is an asshole training simulator.
 
I am not a fan of Rockstar at all, but give me a break. People need to pay attention to what their kids are doing, or in this case, playing.
 
He's just crazy

It’s our theory, which we think we can prove to a jury in Alabama, that, but for the video-game training that he engaged in for hundreds of hours on a carjacking and police killing game, he would not have done what he did.

”The video game industry gave him a cranial menu that popped up in the blink of an eye, in that police station,” says Thompson. “And that menu offered him the split-second decision to kill the officers, shoot them in the head, flee in a police car, just as the game itself trained them to do.”

Those are his comments on a kid that was arrested, brought to a police station where he then stole one of the officers guns and killed 2 officers and a dispatcher. If you've got the balls to do that, then you don't need a game to push you into it.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
SolidSnakex said:
Those are his comments on a kid that was arrested, brought to a police station where he then stole one of the officers guns and killed 2 officers and a dispatcher. If you've got the balls to do that, then you don't need a game to push you into it.

sounds more like the police need to start using a arrest and booking training simulator.
 
Well, my feeling is this:
These games are not being made exclusively for adults and the game developers recognizing this should pull back, police themselves, before big brother kneecaps them. Most of us are adults, or close enough to the vague resemblance of adulthood that we don't need Hillary to make our entertainment choices regarding what's acceptable for us.
And adults need to be making these decisions for their kids.
But a lot of adults are not equipped with the critical thinking and ethical toolkits neccessary to wade through this cesspool of porno gaming.
So either companies like Rockstar will have to chill a bit, or, well... even though I'm a civil libertarian and opposed to the idea, I think these games will end up being censored some how, because even when the rating is mature we all know these games aren't just there for adults.
 
From Hillary's website:

“The disturbing material in Grand Theft Auto and other games like it is stealing the innocence of our children and it’s making the difficult job of being a parent even harder,” said Senator Clinton. “I am announcing these measures today because I believe that the ability of our children to access pornographic and outrageously violent material on video games rated for adults is spiraling out of control.”

But who's letting kids access games rated for adults?

According to research by the National Institute on Media and the Family, games rated M, which means they are appropriate only for people aged 17 or older, are relatively easy for teenagers and even children as young as age 7 to obtain. In the National Institute’s recent study, 50 percent of boys between the ages of 7 and 14 successfully purchased M-rated video games, and an astonishing 87 percent of boys play M-rated games. Furthermore, nearly a quarter of retailers in the study don’t even understand the ratings they are supposed to enforce, and only half of the stores train employees in the use of the ratings.

She's relying on research from a right wing organization, show us the study and how it was conducted?

“No wonder these games are falling into the hands of our children and no wonder so many parents feel everyday like they are fighting this battle with their hands tied behind their backs,” said Senator Clinton. “We need to do better. We need to do everything we can to make sure that parents have a line of defense against violent and graphic video games and other content that go against the values they are trying to instill in their children.”

How do they fall in their hands, by some accident? The game stores push it on the kids? Or is it that those same parents are buying those games for their children?

And of course the best part:

We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country.
 

Ranger X

Member
"We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country."

:lol :lol Almost died choking with my food :lol
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Tendency for melodrama aside, I don't think the actual solution she is proposing is an unreasonable one:

Senator Clinton announced that the legislation she will introduce will put some teeth into video game ratings by instituting a financial penalty for retailers who fail to enforce the rules. It will prohibit the sale of violent and sexually explicit video games to minors and put in place a $5000 penalty for those who violate the law.
With such a policy in place the M rating on GTASA should be more than adequate to keep the game out of hands of children...unless a consenting adult buys it for them.
 

StRaNgE

Banned
What should a parent do?
Return to this website for updated information and suggestions for action.


How about they actually be parents and supervise what the hell there kids do!!!

return to a website, what a lame ass solution for the parents. just be fucking parents for Gods sake.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
we really should just hurry up and make it "illegal" to sell M rated games to people under 17 or 18. impose fines at retail like R rated movies and be done with it. it will certainly cut the wind out of complaints like this.

then when a gamestore clerk has to give his/her spiell to the parents about the games rating they can say "It is illegal to sell this game to your child with out your permission because..."

maybe that will seep into their dense skulls.. but I doubt it.
 

AirBrian

Member
kaching said:
Tendency for melodrama aside, I don't think the actual solution she is proposing is an unreasonable one:

With such a policy in place the M rating on GTASA should be more than adequate to keep the game out of hands of children...unless a consenting adult buys it for them.
And who is going to monitor these sales? Instead of expanding the government or adding more responsibilities to local law enforcement, why don't we save taxpayer money and other resources for real issues rather than bad parenting?
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
AirBrian said:
And who is going to monitor these sales? Instead of expanding the government or adding more responsibilities to local law enforcement, why don't we save taxpayer money and other resources for real issues rather than bad parenting?
its not like police are going to have to patrol game stores. it could be as simple as a parent complaining when a child is sold a game. Or the news, they are freighteningly good at sniffing out non stories and planting kids to do things like buy M rated games (they convinced a kid to come into our store once and pre-order leisure suite larry, one of the bone heads at the store gave him the pre-order disc, all on camera. pwned)

if anything the preasure of a law will get the retail administration to get serious about self enforcement
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
kaching said:
Tendency for melodrama aside, I don't think the actual solution she is proposing is an unreasonable one:

With such a policy in place the M rating on GTASA should be more than adequate to keep the game out of hands of children...unless a consenting adult buys it for them.

Oh I agree I read it and thought well this isn't much different than what's in place for movie theaters violating ratings for ticket sales...

but all the damn melodramatic crap leading up to it... such is politics....
 

AirBrian

Member
scola said:
its not like police are going to have to patrol game stores. it could be as simple as a parent complaining when a child is sold a game. Or the news, they are freighteningly good at sniffing out non stories and planting kids to do things like buy M rated games (they convinced a kid to come into our store once and pre-order leisure suite larry, one of the bone heads at the store gave him the pre-order disc, all on camera. pwned)

if anything the preasure of a law will get the retail administration to get serious about self enforcement
But movies are self-enforced by the National Association of Theatre Owners. If the same powers are given to the ESRB, then that's acceptable. But making it a law is ridiculous and a wasteful application of resources.
 

Wraith

Member
We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country.

Ruh roh... wait until God of War crosses her path.
 

Dupy

"it is in giving that we receive"
If the same powers are given to the ESRB, then that's acceptable. But making it a law is ridiculous and a wasteful application of resources.

Agree completely. The double standard here is ridiculous.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
All this could have been avoided. Rockstar is stupid for leaving that crap in the game. Now the entire industry is going to get a housecleaning, unless Rockstar admits, and pays.

You know damn well, other game makers are saying; "Fuckin' A Rockstar! Now we'll have ClinTON all over us, good job douche bags."

Man, just make the game inaccesable to kids, problem solved.
 
moku said:
Man, just make the game inaccesable to kids, problem solved.

Kids are going to find a way to get their hands on the game if they really want it. It's just like beer, when kids can't buy it they'll just ask someone outside of a store to go in and buy it for them. The bigger problem is that no one wants to blame these crazy ass kids or their parents. Those Columbine kids were able to build bombs in their own house (and according to them their parents even found some of their pipe bombs and bomb making material one time). And who did people choose to blame? Video games, music and movies.
 
I think the "solution" is a terrible one - I think it amounts to censorship to make the government the legal arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate for minors to play. Especially when the same standard isn't applied to gangsta rap, R-rated movies, or sexually explicit novels.
 

nightez

Banned
I'm with Hillary Clinton on this if Rockstar did indeed have it hidden in the game code!!!!!!
Rockstar doesnt support my platform so they get no luv from me.
 
Gek54 said:
So how is GTA not really just for adults?

I'm postulating that, at times, it's marketed through media aimed at a largely under 18 audience. I can't break down exactly what cable channels GTA is advertised on off the top of my head, but I'm sure I've seen a few GTA ads on MTV, for example.
I'm not sure if they advertise on Nic or Cartoon Network, or in magazines targeted towards teens, but if they don't there's probably something stopping them from doing that.
I'm also postulating that some of the over the top stuff in GTA is not there to appeal to a guy in his 20's who is fucking chicks he meets in bars while watching porn etc.
But rather, to appeal to younger people who see it as a way of asserting an adult identity, of being cool, breaking the reins etc.
Although, there is the aspect of a huy who is fucking chicks he picks up in bars while watching porn maybe feeling more comfortable being observed by peers playing GTA than, say, Kirby.
 

Gek54

Junior Member
Most of my friends who are in their early twenties watch MTV all the time. We'd go out to bars, party hard, pick up chicks and still playing videogames has never been taboo. Those of us who were born with a NES or Atari controler in our hands are adults now and gaming is no longer just for the kids. Unless you are a generation above me I would have thought this fact would be quite apparent.
 
Gek54 said:
Most of my friends who are in their early twenties watch MTV all the time. We'd go out to bars, party hard, pick up chicks and still playing videogames has never been taboo. Those of us who were born with a NES or Atari controler in our hands are adults now and gaming is no longer just for the kids. Unless you are a generation above me I would have thought this fact would be quite apparent.

I didn't say gaming is "just for the kids."
I don't mean for this to get too intense, I just mean to say it is for the kids as well, and likely more for the kids than for most people who stairclimb the ladder into the prozac addled distopia of mortgage payments, marriage, and parenthood, even if some of us lurch that direction slower than others.
Now, I don't watch MTV because, well, it hurts to watch it. And I do think MTV is more for the kids, although it inches up to people in their twenties as well, as a target demographic.
I mean as a person who is 26 MTV has like zero appeal most of the time except for that guy who mends his ass cheecks together with floss. He's neat.
And also, I go to bars and pick up chicks and then we play Animal Crossing.
So, anyways, I as a civil libertarian would implore the industry to police thyself, because the halls of government have a fascistic ambient tinge of late, and I wouldn't be surprised if some form of censorship emerges due to porno styled games, not that the label "porno style" is fair for GTA.
But it's enough for Hillary or some Dominionist Right Wing Asswipe who would love to literally wipe-up with the U.S. constitution.
Gaming has grown up, but kids game too, in droves, and kids are kids. They aren't adults.
 

Link1110

Member
I am not a fan of Rockstar at all, but give me a break. People need to pay attention to what their kids are doing, or in this case, playing.

Some of these parents are just idiots. I saw a parent buy GTA for her 13 year old daughter yesterday because "she plays it over her friends' houses anyway," don't you think you should try and put a stop to that rather than making it easier for her to play that game? When i have kids if their friends have super laissez faire parents like that, my kids will not be going over said friends houses. I'm not saying we need to take these games off the market (People over 17 should be allowed to play what they wish,) but I don't know about some parents sometimes.
 
This shouldn't be surprising. Tipper Gore was a vehement supporter of censoring heavy metal back in the day and shares politics with the Clintons.
 
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