Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
EA begs to difer. How many studios did they kill? This should not be the case here but we never know.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Deviation Games Has Shut Down - Ex CoD Devs, Were Creating New IP for PlayStation
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Member
Whether Microsoft is hands on or hands off, they've never proven they know how to manage studios effectively... We're over 20 years of them in the industry and there is no franchise they have that is at the peak of its popularity. No studio they manage is at their peak either.
I think people assume just because they have money and they are a 1st party that their management is somehow assured to create games better than any other publisher out there.
It doesn't really work like that. You can make 3 games, 10, games, or 50 games, and there's no guarantee that any one of them is going to be good if you don't have any talent and management at your studios.
I wouldn't put Microsoft in my top 5 of game development companies, historically or currently. I'm not even sure they're in my top 10. They're (to me) all hype, bolstered by the Xbox brand, but after Halo Infinite and Redfall, I'm not sure how anyone seriously thinks they have a handle on things or can magically flip a switch. I guess it will take Starfield disappointing for people to get really angry, or will they just shift their hopes toward Fable?
Mibu no ookami
Member
Man I'm huge sony fun
But sometimes I hate them when they do this
I'm still angry when they closed studio liverpool and Sony Japan
That's pretty silly. They run a business and a successful one.
I know some gamers think this is all fun and games rainbows and honey, but it's actually business.
They brought back Firesprite, and I'm not sure we've seen evidence it was the right thing to do.
Sony Japan had been faltering for years and most of the games you associate them with are external games that XDEV is still producing, but somehow you had this mentality of Japan Studios as this great development studio.. it never was.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Minecraft is at its peak popularity.
So is the Forza Horizon franchise.
So is Flight Sim.
Psychonauts 2 is DF best scoring game.
Sea of Thieves is Rares most profitable game ever.
Tango Gameworks just released their highest scoring game in studio history.
XBox is doing fine. Don't buy the clickbait narratives.
Mibu no ookami
Member
How did Minecraft Legends do?
I like how you specified Horizons here, it's a game that is played by many on gamepass because they don't have to buy it.
Flight Sim is only benefitting because it's a natural game to benefit due to technology.
How did Psychonauts 2 sell?
I'm willing to bet that adjusted for inflation Goldeneye was for more profitable
Tango Gameworks just lost their biggest name
Your spin doesn't help Microsoft or anyone...
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
He may be overly optimistic, but it is true that Xbox has some franchises in very good health. No need to demean that. just that some of us would want for the situation to be even better.
Rare got Sea of thieves, but in a sense lost a decade before that, and seems doomed to be limited to it right now. I think that if they were handled better they could have been like Naughty dogs, with a few AAA masterpieces on top of Sea of thieves.
I don't play Xbox games so I don't know if they are getting better or not. But at least some of them are. And having new IP that works is a good place to be. So some of your claims were hyperbole. But I mostly agree with you. They are not that good.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
They're not doing fine. lol
Microsoft needs games that are going to bring gamers to their platform or even their subscription service.
Forza will do that, and maybe to a lesser degree (since its a last-gen game) Sea of Thieves.
But do you think Hi-Fi Rush is going to bring people to the platform as much as God of War and Zelda?
Or what about Psychonauts 2 compared to Horizon Forbidden West and Mario Kart?
Big titles bring people to their platform, not small titles. So it doesn't matter if Hi-Fi Rush gets high scores and a lot of praise from people - Even Returnal did that, but it doesn't mean it's going to attract hundreds of thousands or millions of people to the platform.
Xbox hasn't been fine for years. They're still a consistent flow of major titles.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Why do people even want to read up on this. Its not our business what the company has to do to sustain profitability or to float above the bare minimum. I never understood why its a big deal people getting fired and then people talking shit about the company for doing so.
jonnyp
Member
You weren't lying. Next level cringe that website.
Kokoloko85
Member
Japan StudioS hurts as it was more than 1 studio. They lost some amazing directors like Ueda and Toyama.I'm still angry when they closed studio liverpool and Sony Japan
Liverpool and evolution have mostly gone into Firewalk studios? They kinda got rebrought back in
Last edited:
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
You need both. And it is Microsoft responsibility to do that, not the studios in question. I love AAA. But I love small games too. Why should Tango take the blame for Xbox current state? Or be compared to GOW?
If the game is good, then it should be enough.
The rest is a Xbox problem. And they do have problems. And success. So what is wrong when someone praise their success? As for Xbox being fine. This is not entirely true. But it is not a dumpster fire either. Their ambitions are just too high maybe.
Yes bro. Upon purchasing Bethesda in 2021, Phil Spencer went back in time to 2018 and forced Bethesda and Arkane leadership to make Redfall.
Or you’re saying between March 2021 and the June 2021 E3 showing, Spencer convinced Arkane to move Redfall from a linear, Single player game to an open world game scheduled for a 2022 release.
‘Harder to talk’
I love a good debate as well as any alive, but it has to make sense.
MasterCornholio
Member
Microsoft has definitely put their hands on Bethesda but not where they should IMO. They certainly got them to cancel the PS5 versions of some games and definitely had a hand in release dates and shadow dropping Hifi Rush for example.
I think where they should focus their pressure is on the devs ability to make good games. Basically making them realise that it isn't infinite funds for them if they don't produce quality releases.
Only worry I have with this is if they can consistently feed gamepass with quality releases. Give the devs the time and tools they need to produce quality releases but also ensure gamepass is feed with a steady stream of content. That might be tricky for them to do.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I put a few posts between the one you quoted and now. Even when people are wrong, it does not harm to explain why instead of going for the poster. And you were not the only one. Or I would just have left the discussion go its way as we are not in a Redfall thread.Yes bro. Upon purchasing Bethesda in 2021, Phil Spencer went back in time to 2018 and forced Bethesda and Arkane leadership to make Redfall.
Or you’re saying between March 2021 and the June 2021 E3 showing, Spencer convinced Arkane to move Redfall from a linear, Single player game to an open world game scheduled for a 2022 release.
‘Harder to talk’
I love a good debate as well as any alive, but it has to make sense.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
It's not good enough if the game is just good.
Yes, people love small games, but they're not going to attract many people to the Xbox platform. If they want to go from 50 console sales to 60, 70, or 80, then they're going to need to put out a steady flow of big titles.
They need games where people are going to watch a commercial or trailer and say, "I need to play game!" They haven't released many games like this within the past 5 years and that's terrible. Microsoft is not giving many reasons for people to buy an Xbox. It's not doom and gloom but yes, but there are a lot of problems and that's something Sony and Nintendo don't really have.
Well, we’ll certainly know more next month.
I think they’ll have the sense not to pull that ‘next 12 months’ trick, which I’m now convinced was to mask how unprepared they were. They’re much closer to the finish line for multiple titles now
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I do 100% agree with this. But this is Microsoft problem. They do need to have huge AAA that makes 10 to 20 millions sales( and happy customers) more often. I do see them in a very bad position too. Just that does not make games like hi fi rush less of a success.
We are in a thread that has nothing to do with Microsoft. But we got there. In the last few pages I got to choose between "Xbox is fine" and "Xbox failed all their IP in the last 20 years". If someone want to belive that Xbox is fine, why not let him? But going overboard in describing Xbox as all bad when they do have success is not good for me.
So you should be right on that point.
And it can't be like the 2020 CGI showcase, so we will have a certain amount of gameplay I hope. Starfield having another timeslot means that we should not see it in this showcase. So I hope that they will have something as good to show. Just planned for later in the generation. Indiana jones would be good.
yurinka
Member
Depends on the game size. The big ones, AAA games often have over 2000 people on their game credits, being the ones in the lead studio (in this case Deviation) only around 10% or less of them.
The other people are in external outsourcing studios to support development, or in other studios from the publisher (marketing, testing, PR & CM, publishing, localization, legal, accounting, executives etc.)
$50M for outsourcing. Meaning, not to spend in Deviation workers, but to hire external outsourcing support studios (people who make additional art, music, cinematics, motion capture, etc).
It's a low amount, pretty likely only for a portion of the development.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Thank you, I can't even be bothered to read these users posts properly or reply.
Rares most successful franchise, Forza horizon is always awesome, so is Forza tbh.
Theyve had a shit year, but to act like theyve miss managed their entire output in 20 years is crazy.
Who else is releasing games like sea of thieves, pentiment, psychonauts 2, Hi Fi Rush etc.
Love the hyperbole and FUD on here sometimes.
Even Halo is a great game, it just had a stupid month where big team battle was broken and ruined all traction on the game, and 343i got gutted for that.
Poltz
Member
Quality fell off a cliff though.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Tbh, I don't even understand why this thread is about Microsoft. Not sure what caused the derail but yeah.
Looks like deviation is out of the window, and I think Sony might be pivoting on their Gaas initiative which would be great. I don't think they really work nowadays unless you're one of the big guns thats already out.
Looks like deviation is out of the window, and I think Sony might be pivoting on their Gaas initiative which would be great. I don't think they really work nowadays unless you're one of the big guns thats already out.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Quality fell off a cliff though.
Current sea of thieves would easily score mid 80s. Did you see reviews in the early 2000s late 90s? Do you remember them?
Go count how many reviews there are on those games and try again.
Poltz
Member
You dont think those games are widely regarded as top games? Deary me. This 2001, is this wrong too?
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Oh, so you're one of those that reads something then translates that into saying the person made a completely different statement.
My full actual statement......those games are classics and if sea of theives was reviewed today it would score in the mid 80s.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Dude, who the fook are you? Ignored.You dont think those games are widely regarded as top games? Deary me. This 2001, is this wrong too?
Not even clever enough to count reviews on the games you posted then posts a halo review with just shy of 70 reviews :/
What is going on in this thread and these weirdo's with a hate boner for MS. The thread isnt even about Microsoft lmao!
Insecure as fuck or something.
Worst part, someone with a metroid avatar has a boner for Sony...and my true love is Nintendo so this is all kinds of triggering.
Last edited:
Poltz
Member
If you don’t think Rare’s quality dropped since the N64 days then that’s ignoring reality. There is a correlation between review scores (even if there were less in number) and quality of game. Kinect Sports, Banjo and Kazooie Nuts and Bolts and Conker Live, Kameo and Conker Reloaded were not great either. Viva Pinata was good though, the quality dipped from N64, that can’t be disputed.
Last edited:
You dont think those games are widely regarded as top games? Deary me. This 2001, is this wrong too?
Metacritic suddenly relevant again, except when it’s time to talk about Halo Infinite with 87% MC.
None of that takes away from the fact that Sea of Thieves is Rare’s most successful game ever.
Poltz
Member
Halo Infinite metacritic score is good and valid. There is a good game there just the live service is underwhelming which is something you can’t really review. Sea of Thieves is their most successful games yes but the quality of their games has declined, both things can be true.
Has declined?
Aside from Redfall, the vast majority of their games from 2019 on have fallen in the 80 - 92% range.
Flight Sim
Grounded
HiFi Rush
Forza Horizon 5
Psychonauts 2
Pentiment
Halo Infinite
Gears 5 / Hivebusters
Last edited:
Poltz
Member
I am only talking about Rare.
yurinka
Member
Japan Studio (without S) was a single development studio which had different internal development teams, which got merged into one of them: Team Asobi. As a result of that the studio got rebranded to Team Asobi.
Japan Studio also had a 2nd party publishing team for local 2nd party games. As happened before where their 2nd party team for American team was branched out of SSM and in the European 2nd party team was branched out outside Liverpool studio to become their own offices, in that same restructuring where the Japan Studio internal teams got merged they also branched out its 2nd party publishing team to have its own office, which now also publishes games developed in other non-Japan Asian countries.
Now all these three 2nd party teams form together a global XDEV team instead of reporting to local gamedev teams.
Both Team Asobi and that Japanese XDEV team are now growing.
Firesprite, not Firewalk, has a lot of former Evolution, Liverpool Studio and Bizarre Creations employees. Firesprite is basically the resurrection of these these 3 studios combined.
Ronin_7
Member
OG Halo Trilogy was something elseYou dont think those games are widely regarded as top games? Deary me. This 2001, is this wrong too?
Good old times...
Kokoloko85
Member
At the end of the day, they lost Ueda, Yamagiwa, Ejun, Toyama etc. The minds that made and produced brilliant games. They had more than 1 team making games. Astrobot is cool but the other teams made games I liked just as much or much more.
They should of expanded into multiple studio with Ueda, Toyama, Kouno, Kataoka, Ejun etc etc. Brought in Clap Handz, Crispy’s, Pyramid into the fold.
They could of done all that while expanding Team Asobi and XDEV like they are doing now. Im sure alot of Toyama and Ueda’s team left with them.
Anyway, Im just bitching about what could of been. I can’t do anything about it. But I would of loved to see it happen. I want another Everybodys Golf too
Right, got the name wrong lol. Im glad thats happened
yurinka
Member
In the past it was too difficult and expensive for small teams to selfpublish their own games, so some of these external teams needed Sony to help them publishing.
Times changed, now it's better for indies to selfpublish, and sign with platform holders timed console exclusivities and keep their IP instead of giving full exclusivities and the IPs to the platform holders.
Also, for Sony it's also better to have them as timed console exclusives, since it's way cheaper for them so with the same money can invest in more games and they still fill their catalog.
These fellas had Shuhei Yoshida as producer in Japan Studio and later as head of PlayStation Studios, now they have it as head of PlayStation Indies, so won't be that different for them.
Even people like Ueda or Toyama could get their games made outside Sony supported by PlayStation Indies/Sony, and now with less pressure and more creative freedom.
PleazureDome
Member
As any good company should. I am sure they had yearly/quarterly 'milestones' to hit from Sony if they wanted to keep getting funded. This company was way to into playing Hacky Sack and Cornhole in the parking lot & sitting around the break room eating pudding and talking about their feelings.
But the reason I am posting is to consider if the IP reverted back to them when Sony pulled the funding? Could they shop it around to other studios? Technically they haven't closed the studio yet which makes me wonder if they are already doing just that. I'm sure they got more than concept art to show for what was billed as a AAA game. The other negative is if they do find a buyer they would need to restaff/merge/ or get an assist with a sister company of the new buyer to get it shipped & supported.
With the Open Beta of XDefiant this week it got me thinking about this studio since both had ex-COD and other FPS devs at the helm. With XDefiant looking like another log on Ubisoft's dumpster fire, I was hoping these guys could pull it off when they first announced the partnership with Sony.
They started work on the game before Sony got into the picture so they most certainly own the IP. Might end up another RIME situation where the game still ends up getting released… or they could just collapse.
Without a big backer, they’ll probably have to cut back the scope of their game.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
I wonder if they found publishing partner for same game they were making for Sony, since Sony canned it or they just started to make new game with Sony.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
How are they doing this without their CEO, COO, and CFO?
Hudo
Member
can I just say how surreal it is that MS managed to bring back Flight Simulator?
To me it feels like there is industry wide panic at the seeming mass public rejection of GAAS, and the realisation that there is really only scope, and time in peoples lives for very few success stories. Given games take 5+ yr to make its resulted in this mess of major flops and subsequent cancellations and realignments.
Kaiserstark
Member
It's kind of strange that on the Deviation Twitter, their pinned tweet is still the one saying that they made a partnership with PlayStation for making a new original IP.
maybe they fired social media person in that round of layoffs
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Would they have had 2 projects running and one shitcanned?